Strength and Fear: An Ustalavic Kingmaker Campaign

Game Master vayelan

Thirded!

That's three of us then! If the Countess or our good General want to really do something different, please let us know. I'm going to get a post up with Nikolai gathering them up at the council chamber.

Apologies, trying to post later today... holidays seem to have gotten tougher timewise. Open to all options.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, if you partake!

Also, did you want to complete another kingdom turn, or did you want to make another expedition first?

I thought we'd being RPing the Council Meeting before either heading out or another Kingdom Turn.

DM Vayelan wrote:

Also, did you want to complete another kingdom turn, or did you want to make another expedition first?

I thought we'd being RPing the Council Meeting before either heading out or another Kingdom Turn.

Oh, yes! Thank you for the reminder.

Also, my apologies for letting the game fall into a lull.

I figure there should be some interaction with the prominent Kingdom/Council NPCs... relationships, smooth or rocky. Give them a chance to react. Also, each PC can set their own tone.

A notice to all my games:

I've spent the past two days incapacitated with a bad stomach bug. I'm finally able to get out of bed for an extended period, so I'm going to work on catching up with my games.

Thank you for being patient.

Take care of yourself DM Vayelan, were not going anywhere.

Indeed! Take your time and rest.

Feel better & chicken matzoh balls soup!

Happy holidays folks! Take care of yourselves out there!

I swear I'm going to get a post up soon. We had a Covid outbreak at home, cat has come down with diabetes and now needs regular medicine, I came down sick and probably caught it too. It has been a mess and a half.

Yuck! Get feeling better NIkolai!

Take care of yourself and loved ones... We'll keep the game warm!

Giving Bashuk a chance as they are an honest to goodness Orc-blood.

But, will proceed to the jail after the reply.

I am still here! Not rushing the scene or anything, you folks take your time <3

I seem to have been kicked off the site (unbeknownst) on all devices and Judy got back in... Can't log into site on desktop.

Thought it was awfully quiet.

If anyone is having trouble logging in, clear the cache for Paizo, kill the browser, open the browser, and log in under My Organized Play.

Probably other ways, but that is what worked for me.

One of my GM's had the same problem, posted this in that game.

miteke wrote:

If anyone is having trouble logging in, clear the cache for Paizo, kill the browser, open the browser, and log in under My Organized Play.

Probably other ways, but that is what worked for me.

One of my GM's had the same problem, posted this in that game.

Thanks!

Wasn't really considering execution.

HE said they raided the town for bodies, I assume for necromancy/undead, What would you recommend?

did I miss something from the battle with the shaman, they were using undead correct?

did I miss something from the battle with the shaman, they were using undead correct?

I don't remember them using undead. I'll look back.

Shamans, champions & warriors I think.

Correct. The Open Barrow war party attacked Ravengro only with living orcs.

Besides the usual loot and plunder, they were hoping to bring back enemy bodies to be raised later as undead.

ok, that makes sense. So, are we going to have a conversation in game? Valda is a paladin from last wall and were talking about letting a prisoner free who wants to kill our people and use their dead bodies for necromancy.

Valeska, I'm not sure if your just looking for in game discussion. Or where your at as far as player vs. character on this. But both Valda and I are very opposed to letting the shaman go. Let's at least vote on it as players and make the decision OOC then incorporate that into the game.

Valeska, I'm not sure if your just looking for in game discussion. Or where your at as far as player vs. character on this. But both Valda and I are very opposed to letting the shaman go. Let's at least vote on it as players and make the decision OOC then incorporate that into the game.

I'm just role-playing. I don't understand the player vs. character question.

We're kingdom building, let's build a better (peaceful, enlightened, open, welcoming, woke) one.

Valda Aslougsdottir wrote:

Valeska, I'm not sure if your just looking for in game discussion. Or where your at as far as player vs. character on this. But both Valda and I are very opposed to letting the shaman go. Let's at least vote on it as players and make the decision OOC then incorporate that into the game.

I'm just role-playing. I don't understand the player vs. character question.

Cool, what I meant by player vs. character, was that a lot of times I play characters that don't necessarily think or act the way I would (or at least I try to). In this situation Valda believes it's unwise to free the prisoner because he's a genocidal necromancer. From a gaming perspective, as a player, I think it's unwise to put a powerful enemy back in play.

We're kingdom building, let's build a better (peaceful, enlightened, open, welcoming, woke) one.

By definition:

peaceful ADJECTIVE free from disturbance; tranquil.
enlightened ADJECTIVE having or showing a rational, modern, and well-informed outlook.
open ADJECTIVE allowing access, passage, or a view through an empty space; not closed or blocked up.
welcoming ADJECTIVE behaving in a polite or friendly way to a guest or new arrival.
woke ADJECTIVE alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism.

It hurts my feelings that you feel the need to remind me of those particular goals. It makes me feel like you do not believe that Valda nor I am committed to them or that we are not demonstrating them.

Let us add another word, which for government is just as important.
Justice NOUN just behavior or treatment. the quality of being fair and reasonable. the administration of the law or authority in maintaining this.

While I'm still learning how some of those words apply to our own society and thus to 'Golarion' as well. Please remember the individual in question is an evil genocidal necromancer who attacked the people our characters are supposed to be protecting with the intention of killing them and using them as undead.

I wasn't reminding you, just explaining Valeska movitation (as I'm playing her)... Definitely not wanting to hurt feelings.

I don't get into too much meta-gaming.

I get good vs. evil and that undead go against the natural order.

Geneva Convention, anyone?

Not to get crazy deep... But I'm rp'ing Valeska as trying to live by Emmanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative.

Oh man, what a thing to read and unpack here...

I am in agreement with Sister Valda on it, a part of becoming a better and greater people is to be intolerant of intolerance. This necromancer was not deceived into attacking us, they weren't remorseful, and they would certainly do so again with even greater zeal. This is not someone who should be released while alive. A lifetime of imprisonment is acceptable, albeit a strain on someone who has committed an unprovoked attack.

Now the fun part is that, as a party, we definitely do the same thing. We attacked the darklings only to secure peace with the orcs when we had no reason to do so outside of self-serving reasons; making peace with some of the forces beyond our territory. We accepted doing this because we realize the orc tribe was being victimized, they were good-natured and following a good goddess, and we are good characters overall. We can trust our judgement because we try to make the best decision whenever possible.

Emmanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative is decent but there are exceptions when a universal law should be broken for good reason. We should respect the life of our prisoners and give them as many chances as possible. I believe that when confronted by an actually evil (for Good and Evil are actual forces in this world, not just concepts) genocidal necromancer who wishes nothing more than to murder us and animate us to spread more death, execution for his crimes is acceptable.

While I appreciate the rich RP opportunity here, and I am impressed by the application of philosophical concepts, I definitely do not want to see a schism in the party because of this decision.

One solution that occurred to me is to handle this similar to how in the Dark Knight Rises the fate of the Joker was left ambiguous and unaddressed, not just to respect Heath Ledger's passing but also to acknowledge that no single outcome would please everyone.

I am also considering introducing a new development that would absolve the party of the responsibility of deciding the shaman's fate. I don't like compromising the party's autonomy, but it's preferable to seeing the party and the game torn apart.

I don't think we would be torn apart, just everyone compromising a bit.

I'm happy to compromise. I just can't buy black & white it's evil... kill it.

I thought i saw some suggestions that could work out.

Oh, I'm not actually upset at all out of game about this at all and I apologize if anything I said can be misconstrued as such. I always try to take messages online in the best light and give my own in the best light possible; miscommunications can affect written messages all the time. If we're in a bad mood, we can interpret things totally differently than if we're in a good mood. If we think someone is antagonizing us, we may interpret their words to be more hostile than they actually are.

I am fine letting him rot in prison for the rest of his life, barring a sudden change of heart or remorse. I do want to say that I believe I'm in the same mindset as Valda and Bashuk; we don't want him executed because he is "a bad man". We wished for his execution because of his violent actions in the past. Being evil isn't cause enough for it, it is the actions that he took along with no remorse and an eager yearning to cause more harm.

I think it has been great roleplay so far, though I am sure that the general is in agreement with me that I'd like to begin the investigations to the east as soon as the scene is wrapped up.

I'm cool with the prisoner remaining locked up.

My concern was that it be a decision made by the group of players. So that the players desire for how the game should proceed were reflected in the game's RP.

Out of character, my opinion is that I don't want to put a powerful enemy piece back in play.

Is the 'general' still with us? He's posted in three other games this month, but not here since Jan. 4th.

Another thing I've been wondering... how do you keep a cleric/shaman from casting spells? Taking holy symbol or totem?

Is that something we can handwave for storytelling? Or would we need an in game rules mechanic?

I could see butting him to work (manual labor), rebuilding what he and his people have torn asunder. Working fields, hauling materials, etc... Time served, etc...

I believe removing a divine caster's focus - i.e. their holy symbol or totem - is enough to strip them of most if not all of their spellcasting capability.

However, I am also inclined to handwave it by saying that the shaman's god is displeased with his defeat and capture and is thus withholding spells.

...

I can also send a message to Kain to check on them.

I believe removing a divine caster's focus - i.e. their holy symbol or totem - is enough to strip them of most if not all of their spellcasting capability.

However, I am also inclined to handwave it by saying that the shaman's god is displeased with his defeat and capture and is thus withholding spells.

...

I can also send a message to Kain to check on them.

We will/have definitely taken away his divine focus, so operating under that premise. How much handwaving, is up to you... can be used as a story device.

Thanks!

Imprisonment is also acceptable, for me and Bashuk. It's a tough line for her to walk, because as a Sarenite she recognizes that she and her tribe are living proof that orcs are not inherently evil. That said, the majority or orcs do, for various cultural and and religions reasons, choose to be evil and destructive. That's a very active choice for a shaman of the Open Barrow tribe. Sarenrae is forgiving, but not foolishly so when it comes to the unrepentantly evil.

I think keeping him imprisoned is a good solution, it also means we can come down here and pick his brain once in a while. Bashuk will probably take the occasional meal down here to ask him questions.

Sorry for the disappearance, I lost access to my account for a bit, and with a plethora of other things going on the past week or so didn't feel like dedicating the time/frustration to getting it back. This of course, stems from a silly thing I ended up doing back when people got locked out. I am however, back on.

Welcome back! Glad to have you with us again.

I'm terribly sorry for letting the game fall into a dreaded lull.

For now, shall we table to discussion of the shaman's fate and instead set out for Clover's Crossing to discover what befell the town?

I'm terribly sorry for letting the game fall into a dreaded lull.

For now, shall we table to discussion of the shaman's fate and instead set out for Clover's Crossing to discover what befell the town?

That's fine, Boss.

Hoping all is well with you and yours.

For now, shall we table to discussion of the shaman's fate and instead set out for Clover's Crossing to discover what befell the town?

I thought we had already moved on.

From the sense of posting regularity, it seems like we've been in a lull for a while. I'm used to posting, if not daily, at least three or four times a week in a game. With the sputters and starts caused by characters not being involved, this game had been difficult to get invested in.

Honestly, I think you can tell how interested people are when you compare their posting rate in the game in question to their posting rate in other games, whether that's the GM or the players.

Sadly, I don't know if DM Vayelan had asked for a specific posting rate in this game when he started it or not. I know in the recruitment post that I was a part of posting rate wasn't mentioned.

I didn't make the first cut in the original recruitment. But GM Vayelan started a second table asking me to be "ruler" and I was honored.

I'm in this game for as long as he enjoys running it, however fast or slow. Whoever comes on or drops out. Of course, he can ask me to leave, kick me out or some such.

Will do my best to keep a proper pace.

I've enjoyed the game, many if not all of the players/characters and GM Vayelan's creativity and style.

Peace!

Sorry, Valeska, I think my post came off harsher than I intended. I didn't mean it aimed at anyone in particular. Nor was I questioning your commitment to the game.

I was trying to express that the irregularity in posting has made it harder for me to enjoy the game. I probably should not have speculated on what may cause those irregularities, either for players or GM's. For that I apologize.

I've enjoyed the game, many if not all of the players/characters and GM Vayelan's creativity and style.

Peace!

This made me smile. I appreciate your, very polite, candor. I realize I can be an obnoxious butt sometimes, and will try to reign that in. Normally I can balance it out with quality posts and humorous interaction. Apparently that hasn't been the case here yet :) I will strive to be less of a curmudgeon and more entertaining.

In the meantime, I hope everyone else is ok with GM Vayelan moving the game along to "Clover's Crossing."

its fine with me.

Let us do the thing!

Unfortunately, I fear that I am the one responsible for the slow posting rate in this game. The obvious explanation is the struggle of balancing my games against real-life responsibilities.

Nevertheless, I don't want this game to fizzle out both because I am fond of the players/characters and because of the longer term plans I have for the campaign.

Going forward, I'm going to try and inject more energy into the game with my own posting rate.