Why Can't Fighters Have Nice Hobgoblins? Ironfang Invasion

Game Master Stalwart

Oathday, 29 Sarenith, 4717

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Male Human Fighter 12| AC 28 T 16 FF 23 | HP 124/124| F +11 R +10 W +6; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +17

I was considering using the bow along with enlarge person but it's probably too valuable for an occasional use like that.


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Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

We are hitting the road for a few days to celebrate our anniversary. (Big one with a zero on it and everything! Later I might explain why the entire trip got upended, but today, we go!) I will likely still be able to post, but if I’m quiet, fret not and bot me as necessary. I trust your judgement. Cheers!

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Happy anniversary! Hope you enjoy it :)

On my end, I’m finally in China. Wifi here reminds me of dial up speed. Even loading this page felt like it took forever. But I’m glad that I at least have it.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Thank you! We are back and enjoyed our time quite a bit.

Enjoy your trip!


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Is Grum still in China with slow internet? Someone can bot him.

@GM, is there a map? And can more than one of us drop down to enter combat, since we are all up (before Benedict again and then the morlocks)?

Haela can go at some point.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Returned from overseas! Was welcomed back warmly by work, with lots to do, and some unexpected family medical issues and the sad reality that my computer is fully dead (only posting via phone until I buy a new one). Will catch up with the game as soon as possible.


Sorry for the delay, but I was also overseas. So it worked out with both Grum and I being out.

Looking forward to moving us along!


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Somebody want to bot Amkarang? I am already playing a PC and an NPC.


Forgot to give XP for the cephalophores. You get 19,200 xp. They were tough.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

That's level 11! Should we level up now or when we rest?


I don't mind if you level up now.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Aerel's level is easy.

New trick shot - I selected trip.
Third iterative attack

7 hit points

6 skill points (perception, stealth, survival, Knowledges (Geography, Nature, Local)

I think that's literally all there is.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Bab: +1
Saves: None
HP: +9
Skill Points with FCB: +3 Perception
Feat: VMC Prestidigitation (woo?)
Class Features: None


Male Human Fighter 12| AC 28 T 16 FF 23 | HP 124/124| F +11 R +10 W +6; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +17

Picked up Improved Precise Shot. Trying to decide between fireball and fire arrow for my spell.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Oh, I missed a big one - at this level, my pseudo-rogue gains Evasion!


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

@William - we found a scroll of Fireball, so you can take the Fire Arrow spell as your free one and learn Fireball from the scroll.

Benedict gets 3 feats at this level.

1 from Level 11: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
1 from Ftr8: Swordplay Style
1 from free Ftr feat retraining every 4 levels: Flagbearer to Swordplay Upset

This can give him an immediate-action feint 1/round against foes who miss him, so that should mean a lot more Greater Feint without taking away his iterative attacks. @GM, I will try to specify who he wants to use it against, if you could roll (at +25) if/when the monsters miss him. That way, if Aerel posts his attacks before me, he can hit foes who are denied Dex (and note that Feint even works against things with Uncanny Dodge, as it seems like some of these morlocks are barbarians).

Other changes:
+1 Fort
+7 skill points (Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception, Sense Motive, Climb*3)
+9 HP


F Dwarf Ftr10 | AC 31, T13, FF29, CMD 27 | HP 89/95 | F +12 R +7 W +7 (+2 vs spells/SLA/poison, +teamwork) | Move 20' | Init +2 | Per +8 (Darkvision)

Haela:
+1 Ref/Will
+4 skill points (Knowledge – Planes, Heal, Climb *2)
+10 HP
Weapon Training improves to +2
Tactician improves to swift action and gains new feat
Feats: Blood for the Empire (Tactician), Teleportation Mastery

Blood for the Empire is pretty cool. If one of us hits a target, then everybody else gets +2 morale bonus to hit and damage vs that target for a round. Haela gets a +3 (and if she has damaged the enemy, everybody else gets a +3). The feat is shareable as a swift action, though of course anybody else can take it as a standard feat if they wish (or use the Manual of War to retrain an existing bonus combat feat into it) and then have it active all of the time.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

@Aerel - you also get another +1d6 Sneak Attack, for a total +3d6 with Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

On a full attack with Rapid Shot and Haste, that is a potential +15d6 damage, so Benedict will try to get you a lot of Feints. We'll see if Swordplay Upset works as well as I hope it will.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:
Benedict the Clever wrote:

@Aerel - you also get another +1d6 Sneak Attack, for a total +3d6 with Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

On a full attack with Rapid Shot and Haste, that is a potential +15d6 damage, so Benedict will try to get you a lot of Feints. We'll see if Swordplay Upset works as well as I hope it will.

Did I forget to note that? I did update the character sheet for that additional damage. I appreciate you watching out for me.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Shoot... if I go through with my feat plan, then my AC continues to be poor (28 is just not enough for an 11th-level frontliner), and my damage drops off a lot (since I won't be using the Manual to trade Flagbearer for Power Attack each day). I was really annoyed for quite a while at just how pathetic Benedict had been in combat, and he had only started to get decent when I was routinely using Power Attack. His attack bonus is still quite a bit behind everyone else's.

So I guess this instead:
Level 11 feat: Deific Obedience (Chaldira) (adding 2 skills ranks to Knowledge-Religion instead of Climb)
Ftr8 feat: Advanced Armor Training (Armor Specialization - Breastplate) for +2 AC
Ftr8 retraining: Flagbearer to Power Attack

And I'll just plan to use Greater Feint as a move action from time to time.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

I feel bad that you seem displeased with your build while you are making accommodations to help me get more out of mine. I would rather you made the build you want to make and not nerf Benedict to augment Aerel.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

That's what I have done with this change. I need PA, and I need to keep my AC up. Deific Obedience grants some great SLAs next level as well as a +1 or +2 to hit right away (so it's better than Weapon Focus).

I really want to make Feint work (since Benedict is so good at Bluff), but there are few good options for action economy.

It will mostly be a thing he does in rounds when he is not full attacking. Swordplay Style looked really appealing for the free Feint but it would be all of my three feats this level.

I've been happier with Benedict's build as of late and don't want to change things around too much. With the feats I am taking, he will be just generally better instead of going in any new directions.


F Dwarf Ftr10 | AC 31, T13, FF29, CMD 27 | HP 89/95 | F +12 R +7 W +7 (+2 vs spells/SLA/poison, +teamwork) | Move 20' | Init +2 | Per +8 (Darkvision)

Haela will carry the Traveler's Any-Tool to power Teleportation Mastery.

She should be able to bring along Grum, Benedict, and Amkarang; it's a nice enough trick when Grum does it, but if Haela does it then Grum gets to full-attack in that round.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:
Benedict the Clever wrote:

That's what I have done with this change. I need PA, and I need to keep my AC up. Deific Obedience grants some great SLAs next level as well as a +1 or +2 to hit right away (so it's better than Weapon Focus).

I really want to make Feint work (since Benedict is so good at Bluff), but there are few good options for action economy.

It will mostly be a thing he does in rounds when he is not full attacking. Swordplay Style looked really appealing for the free Feint but it would be all of my three feats this level.

I've been happier with Benedict's build as of late and don't want to change things around too much. With the feats I am taking, he will be just generally better instead of going in any new directions.

Good.


Fighter 11 | 121 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 28 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +11

Hey folks, sorry I've been scattered lately. Been working a summer internship that's got long, long field days working under the hot prairie sun. My last week of it is coming up, so I should be able to get back to a better schedule once I'm back to school.

Level up is coming later today.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

That heat is no joke. Be sure you are being safe. What sort of internship, if one may ask?


Fighter 11 | 121 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 28 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +11

Working with the Forest Service doing timber sale prep! Not exactly riveting work, but hiking all day beats sitting in an office.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

It does. So many opportunities that I was too naive to even consider when I was at the age when it would make sense to try them.


Fighter 11 | 121 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 28 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +11

Alrighty, should be all leveled.

Quick rundown is Greater Trip as my feat, ranks into intimidate, survival, and the always-important perception. Also picked up Improved Balance as part of two-weapon warrior which should improve my dual wielding accuracy.


Fighter 11 | 121 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 28 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +11

I’m finishing up my last few days of my summer job and getting packed and ready to make the long drive home to California. I might be able to get a post up in the next few days, but Tuesday or Wednesday is most likely.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Safe travels!


Fighter 11 | 121 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 28 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +11

Hey folks, I’m heading for a short camping trip. I’ll be back Friday night, but please bot me as necessary.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Apologies for late notice, but I have embarked on my annual autumn excursion to Someplace Else(TM) and so my availability and access may not be what they generally are. It looks like I should be able to post in the evenings, but can make no guarantees, so please feel free to bot my character as necessary.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Henceforth, I would like to state that my default action will be checking for traps while scouting, with all the ramifications that has for my speed. If I’m hurrying, I will accept the consequences, but if I’m scouting with intent, I would be trying to use my skills to ascertain safe passage for my allies.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Anybody want the Amulet of Natural Armor +2?
Benedict has one already.
Grum just has a +1.
Amkarang has a +2.
Haela has nothing but would take Grum's hand-me-down if he wanted to take the new one.

I added the healing potions and greatclubs to the tracker.

@GM, any XP? Last we got was for the constructs.


Male Human Fighter 12| AC 28 T 16 FF 23 | HP 124/124| F +11 R +10 W +6; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +17

I don't think we have cleared this area yet.

I don't have any natural armor yet but we think grum would need higher armor first.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

I defer the amulet to Grum. You guys can hash out who gets the hand-me-down.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Have we not cleared the area? I thought we had with Aerel scouting around.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

>Happy fighter noises<

Would be glad to give Haela the +1 and upgrade to +2


Benedict the Clever wrote:

Anybody want the Amulet of Natural Armor +2?

Benedict has one already.
Grum just has a +1.
Amkarang has a +2.
Haela has nothing but would take Grum's hand-me-down if he wanted to take the new one.

I added the healing potions and greatclubs to the tracker.

@GM, any XP? Last we got was for the constructs.

This post had the xp from the fight with the first batch of morlocks.

The trap was worth 4,800 xp, and the second wave of morlocks was worth 17,600 xp.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Aerel has dex damage? If that is the case, Grum can heal it.

restoration mastery Would just need to tick off a use of barroom brawler.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 12 | AC 24 (26 with buckler), T 18, F 18 (20), CMD 31 (25) | F 11 R 12 W 10 | hp 82/88 | Init +6 | Perc +32, +38 vs traps, darkvision 60', see invisibility/ethereal | Effects:

Aerel does, yes, from the battle with the centipedes. Six points, so it will take multiple uses of your feat. My dexterity is normally really high, so it's still above average.

We can address it after the fight - no need to retcon it now.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Odds are that at least one of us will fail the CMB to break out, but it should be okay - the morlocks may not want to come in there after us.

We all have Haste to help the CMB checks and Aerel also has Heroism.

Not sure this is the best plan but that nat 20 on the tentacles attack was pretty lucky for the bad guys.

Grum has a wand of Grease with a few charges left that can help someone escape if needed.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (12) Wounds (0) HP (122) Saves (16/10/11, +4 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (30/11/29, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (1/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

What about dimension door? It would take us out of the tentacles so we won’t be grappled. I worry that breaking free now just leaves us to be grappled again next round


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Benedict and Haela both broke free as a standard action and then moved out of the area with a move action, so we won't be grappled again next round. The Tentacles area is difficult terrain, but we are Hasted.

Item Mastery for Dimension Door might work. Item Mastery says that the ability is like using a command word item (no Concentration check needed when grappled) but also that they are spell-like abilities (Concentration check typically needed). So that would be a GM call. Since they don't provoke AOOs I would think they are closer to command word items than SLAs.

Alternatively, Dispel Mastery (if it succeeds) would get rid of the Tentacles entirely, letting Aerel and William get Hasted full attacks.

I think we would need a GM ruling on how the Item Mastery feats work when grappled. Probably not worth the risk if you need a DC 10+14+Spell Level check.

Probably best that everybody else waits on this - it could affect things a lot.


Per the description, the effects created by Item Mastery feats act as spell-like abilities.

SLAs don't provoke AoOs and have no component requirements, but "in all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell." Therefore, I believe Concentration checks are required in order to use them.

Also, the Grappled description says, "A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler’s CMB + spell level), or lose the spell."

The CMD for the Black Tentacles is 24. Its CMB is +14.

However, since it's coming from the Item Mastery feat chain, I would say that you'd still use your BAB and Constitution modifier in place of Caster Level and ability modifier.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

SLAs normally do provoke AOOs. Item Mastery abilities do not. That is why I thought they were not really following the rules of SLAs. But I could see it ruled either way.


Male Human Fighter 12| AC 28 T 16 FF 23 | HP 124/124| F +11 R +10 W +6; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +17

I can see the confusion here. The description says:

All effects created by item mastery feats act as spell-like abilities and use your base attack bonus as the caster level.

Emphasis mine. That would lead me to say you don't need to make a concentration check but I'm not the DM.

Activating is like a wand but effects are like an SLA and based on your stats.


This wasn't an easy call. But the way I read it, the use of the feat is a standard action, and it wouldn't call for a concentration check except for the fact that the result is a spell-like ability effect. Once that's the result, I believe the SLA would then require the concentration check for it to go off.


M Aasimar Fighter 9/Chevalier 3| HP 106/112 | AC 31 (33 vs goblins), T 14, FF 28, CMD 30 | Init +5 | Perception +25 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +14/+11/+9 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Hmm, in light of this ruling can I change my movement?

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