Why Can't Fighters Have Nice Hobgoblins? Ironfang Invasion

Game Master Stalwart

Hey, that’s awesome! Congratulations, I hope everyone’s doing great!

Still in hospital. Healthy baby, healthy wife. The fun will really begin when we get home

Is this your first or have you gone down this road before? Glad to hear all went well even if a bit early.

#4. Mine are11/9/3/newborn. Once I find out how babies are made, I’m done

Mine are 24/21/19/16/4. I figured out how they are made but refuse to quit that so during her c-section my wife made sure it won't happen again. :)

5! That 16-4 jump is big. <wipes sweat off brow>

Yeah, we got our youngest to an age she could take care of herself and then started over. You know what problems Robbie has had. He's more trouble then the rest combined but totally worth it.

Everyone, I have a busy day tomorrow, so I may not get anything up for the next fight in a day or two. Sorry.

Grum, I think we are waiting on you? I left a spot so you could get to the gorgon with a 30' move.

@Aerel, Benedict is probably not going to try to Feint the gorgon since it is non-humanoid with presumably animal-level intelligence, making it a -8 on the Bluff attempt.

Yeah, I didn’t expect this to be a time for fancy tactics.

@Aerel, you are also up, in addition to your on-the-nose Fort save.

@Aerel, you are also up, in addition to your on-the-nose Fort save.

Yeah, I know, I saved the Fortitude save on my phone and moved to a system where an attack post would be simpler.

I totally get that.

@GM - was the warpriest able to move and still get a full attack? It looks like he moved more than 5', comparing the prior version. And if he is provoking an AOO from Amkarang, then it is clear anyway that he isn't taking a 5' step.

Benedict is at 48 HP if the warpriest got only one attack, or 4 HP if he got a full attack.

I was trying to be tactical with my movement to use the corner to deny the enemy the ability to 5' step and full-attack me.

You're absolutely right; the battle priest would have only got the one attack off. So you missed getting walloped by the double-20.

Lucky you!

Does Grum keep making saves? Not 100% on how being a statue works

Just keep making saves. The danger of becoming permanently stone is gone since you have to get hit twice with the gorgon's breath weapon. So it's just a matter of saving each round until you're back.

That snake is nasty.

The constricting things in Navah's tower were also incredibly lethal.

Maybe Benedict should craft Lesser Talismans of Freedom for the party, assuming we survive this battle.

While Grum being petrified is bad, that's bad luck with the dice, and the odds are that he should be free by now. But if something with a +24 Grapple comes after any of us, the odds are very heavily in its favor. It looks like Amkarang's CMD should actually be 27 (10 + 9 BAB +4 Str +3 Dex +1 Deflection) which this thing beats on a 3+.

Yes! Way to go, William!

Great time for a long bow critical! Benedict, what does your keen military mind tell us to shoot at next?

The biggest threats were the gorgons, and they are gone.

The snake was next because he had our best remaining melee combatant neutralized. (Amkarang does about as much damage as Grum, just spread over more hits.)

I would say that the warpriest or cleric is probably the next biggest threat at the moment. But don't hunters get some kind of buff when their pet dies?

I'm out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend, and don't have the book with me. So I can't remember the xp or treasure for the hunter, who was started out in the book. I'll post that when I'm back.

XP for the gorgons: 9,600
XP for the battle priest 4,800

Thanks. I think we also didn't get XP yet for the opening encounter (oversized wyvern, hobgoblin sharpshooters, wolves, warmaze master, 2 seemingly normal minotaurs, 3 hobgoblin rangers who came out of the tents). The last XP I have noted is for the wyvern camp.

I also hadn't updated the loot sheet with any of the opening encounter's gear, but I have done that now (and I accounted for the potions that we used up).

We didn't yet loot the hobgoblin rangers. We did loot the sharpshooters and the big minotaur (warmaze master), but haven't yet identified all of the big minotaur's alchemical items.

Does Grum want the cleric's Headband of Alluring Charisma +2? Benedict already has one, and it would help Grum's UMD and Intimidate.

(An idea for Grum... Cornugon Smash might be useful, given that he has class features that boost Intimidate and is always using Power Attack.)

I see a spellbook listed in party loot. Do we know what spells are in that?

Does anyone else need the breast plate or amulet of natural armor we found?

I don't have an amulet of natural armor, but I don't know if I need it unless everyone else has one.

Sure, Grum could wear it. And yes, Cornugon smash is a good idea.

Also I notice that Grum doesn't have an amulet of natural armor either. But I feel bad taking too much, so if Aerel wants it, I'll defer to him.

Grum and Benedict are Aerel's first layer of armor. What doesn't get through you doesn't hit me. You first.

Benedict has an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 and a Ring of Protection +1, for AC 26 (28 vs goblinoids).

Grum has a Ring of Protection +1 for AC 24 (26 vs goblinoids).

Amkarang has an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 and a Ring of Protection +1, for AC 23, or 26 with a full attack in Fortress Mode.

The hunter's Ring of Protection +2 would be an upgrade for any of the frontliners.

Grum does have the lowest AC of the melee fighters and is one of the most prominent targets. Potions of Barkskin (which Grum has) can be very good because they last quite a while and can free up the neck slot for either a Swarmbane Clasp or a set of three Talismans. But as we have no such items at the moment, I would suggest that Grum wear the amulet.

And Amkarang can take the ring, maybe?

None of these are great ACs for fighters of our level, but maybe we will get a chance to upgrade our gear in Longshadow once there is enough time to allow for it.

William has a Ring of Protection +1, I believe. I could take the extra Ring of Protection +1. I'm not above hand-me-downs.

Howdy folks, starting tomorrow I'll be in a little beach town in Oaxaca for some serious chillin' out time, returning on the 9th of January. I may be able to squeeze a post in here and there, but signal/wifi is likely to be spotty at best.

Please bot me as necessary.

Dim Dooring Benedict and Grum to the archers' position might have been more advantageous if these miners are as tough as they seem.

But that is probably metagaming on my part after seeing their attack bonus.

I have a couple of ideas, but if they don't work and Benedict dies, I have other fighter character concepts.

Does the stream offer a way out, or is it barred?

No more teleportation.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-mastery-feats/teleportation-mastery-ite m-mastery/

Need base fort bonus of +9 (lvl 14) to be able to teleport twice.

Also, like you, I have some other fighter concepts that I'd like to try out. So if Grum dies, I'll be :( but it's not the end of the world.

For the story, it is much more important for Benedict to survive that Grum. He's been going more and more 'devotee of Gorum berserker' as time goes on, while Benedict is the glue that holds us all together. If Grum dies giving Benedict the time to escape, then I consider that a worthy death, and one which leaves me quite happy closing the chapter for him.

If the stream does offer a way out, then IC and OOC I ask you to take it

Can I make a suggestion for a retcon? Feel free to disregard.

Both of our foes are pretty badly wounded. Maybe you can take them both out. Hit one, 5' step and hit the other.

We'll see what happens.

Benedict does about half the damage you do, so it's less likely he would be able to do that.

Benedict's options are:
1) Fight alongside Grum and try to drop the barghests (if Grum doesn't drop them both, the other one may be near death) - maybe Barroom Brawler to gain Power Attack and make a single swing;
2) Climb over the wall, taking the AOO but hopefully not getting crit, and using Acrobatics to drop down the other side (if the wall is 15' or less he can get over in 1 round);
3) Barroom Brawler to pick up Armored Sacrifice to buy some time for either him or Grum;
4) Acrobatics to disengage and make for the stream; or,
5) Strength check to lift the bar and move action to open the gate, allowing our archers to help us.

But, it would be a pretty heroic death for Grum here.

Antagonize won't stop the Barghests from making AOOs on Benedict, whereas killing them would.

No strength check needed to lift the bar on the gate.

Will attack as Benedict suggested if allowed. I suggest climbing the wall, as going for the gates will take too long and fighting is a no-go given how low your HP are

The suspense is killing me!

I have a couple of ideas that may be able to save Grum if a) Benedict can make it over the wall or through the gates and b) Grum is okay being saved. Not sure. We'll see how this plays out and what the enemy does.

Been doing so thinking. If Grum dies here and we are forced to retreat, then that makes for a great story. It sets up our opponents as really being dangerous, where the party doesn't always triumph. Just as inflict losses on them, they do the same to us. The entire "desperation" theme of the adventure is really driven home.

At the same time, if Benedict can get over the wall or through the gates, and Grum can be saved...well, that is a good story as well. It still drives home how dangerous all of this is, just not to the same extent.

So either way, I'm more than happy with the outcome. And if Grum dies here after having recklessly teleported into a fight he couldn't handle and then died in a desperate rear guard action? Well, that's the absolute best death he could ever hope for. As a player, I'm very happy to have a story for a beloved character end like that.

Let the dice fall as they may! :D

Btw...should Grum fall, then most likely what would replace him is this:

Kurgan

A healer! Something we really struggle with. He is a fighter (no archetype) with VMC wizard, having an occult messenger familiar

The dwarf is a healer through and through. His familiar would be a suture vine ("Suture vines are thorny, symbiotic organisms that snag rides on wounded animals, seek out open wounds, and knit those injuries closed—all while absorbing fairly harmless amounts of blood. Local animals often recognize suture vines, both avoiding them as food and seeking them out when wounded. A suture vine that goes without feeding for a week or more sometimes resorts to ambushing small prey.")

With healer's hand conduit, skill unlock, incredible healer, and a whole host of items. Taken together? +31 to heal. (+3 class skill, +1 trait, +9 skill points, +4 wisdom, +4 sacred, +2 circumstance, +5 competence, +3 familiar = 31). Trait gives a further +1/2 level on whatever is healed.

Rolling a 30+ on heal means 18 (2x hit dice) + 4 (wisdom) + 9 (knowledge planes) + 4 (trait) for 35 hit points healed. While that's really good...incredible healer, it can instead be whatever he rolls. So 9x times per day, he can heal someone for 1d20+35. No wands of cure light wounds needed!

Even better? The familiar is an occult messenger. So long as he has it with him, it gives him access to faith healing. Allowing him to heal ability point damage, diseases and poison.

----

All in all? Standard fighter who can hit people in the face while standing still. Completely takes care of all issues we might have with after combat healing, ability point damage, disease and poison.

A dwarf could feasibly be sent to help get into Kraggodan, where we are going after this.

If Benedict happens to perish, I have a few ideas about how to better fill the face role while not losing out on combat prowess. Many of the decisions I made for Benedict were to increase his low-level utility with face skills, but they are just not things I would have chosen if I was starting at 9th (or even 5th).

This AP has solidly hit the mark of "challenging" and I am very happy with that aspect. I do regret that Benedict does so little damage, or else he'd have been able to drop one of the Barghests, I think. But even when he does have access to Power Attack through the manual or through Barroom Brawler, his low attack bonus (no WF, no WT, 16 Str) makes it hard to use. He needs to pick a weapon and get good at it if he lives.

As I said, I think we are at the "challenging" point and I have no desire to ruin that by over-optimizing, so even if Benedict dies and I bring in someone new, it won't be too crazy OP.

@GM, I think we are just waiting for you to say it is okay for Grum to change his action. And I'd like to know many actions I would need to open the gate (would more likely climb, but am not certain).

I didn't know you were waiting on me. I was waiting on the PCs outside the wall to finish their actions. And its been a relatively busy week so that factored in.

But I'm okay with Grum finishing off the one barghest and moving in to defend Benedict. We'll see what the dice say about Grum's fate in a day or two!

So sorry! Posted!

Ideally, Grum could eliminate both of the barghests, leaving Benedict free to act without fearing AOOs.

But if not, Benedict can Acrobatics 5' back, then Climb, then Acrobatics to drop down; I see from the description that the walls are 10' high... so that is 10' of movement to Acrobatics 5', 40' of movement to climb 10', then a free action Acrobatics to drop down, then he has 10' left. He'd have 15' left if he doesn't have to avoid AOOs.

Should Benedict get over the walls and Grum survive a round, the dragon figurine might be a possible way to rescue him, even if it is only carrying his unconscious form. Regrouping on dragon-back while flipping your foes the bird is, I think, an allowable exception to "No retreat" for Gorumites.

That's if all goes well.

There are any number of things that could go wrong.

It might depend if the troop continues to advance while throwing javelins or do a double move. Or if Benedict gets crit by an AOO. Or if more reinforcements arrive.

The salient lesson of this encounter is not to make assumptions on appearances. The morlock miners were not slaves eager to be liberated, and the goblin guards were not goblins. Lesson learned.

The other thing I was really considering for a new PC was damage reduction. A fighter with Armor Training can take Advanced Armor Training (Armored Juggernaut) to get pretty good DR which stacks with Adamantine armor. Would be useful against the Troops, and against lots of other foes besides.

Here is what a new character might look like to fill Benedict's role. This guy would have the social skills of Benedict, a better Tactician ability than Benedict, would hit as hard as Grum, would have the best AC in the party plus DR 5/-, Greater Feint to help Aerel, and eventually the ability to hand out a half-size Weapon Training bonus to Amkarang (at level 13, would be a +2 if he had Gloves of Dueling by that point).

His main tactic would be a move action Greater Feint plus a standard action Power Attack Vital Strike Felling Smash, followed up by an AOO on the tripped foe thanks to Greater Trip.

Getting the exact items you want at WBL is really a huge benefit relative to what the current PCs have, and being able to start at a high level lets you avoid taking things that are only useful at low levels.

Obviously I would rather keep Benedict due to his history with the campaign. But if he doesn't make it, you might see something like this:

A well made character! I always love seeing combat maneuvers being used effectively and that drill sergeant certainly does it. I’ve never looked at that archetype before, but it’s pretty cool. The only thing he is missing is intimidate. How can someone be a DS without that?!

I have a PFS Drill Sergeant fighter with solo tactics and a ton of teamwork feats. It works really well (and this guy would get solo tactics at 10). A solid archetype.

Skirmisher fighter into Chernasardo Warden was also an idea, as it would be fitting for this AP.

You are up! Retcon approved, so now let's see what happens...

Grum misses with his iterative, so the barghest remains.

So Benedict has the choices between stay and fight, open the gate, or climb the gate. I'm sure there's a few other things he could do as well.

Is it a move action to open the gate? Or two actions because it is barred?