Why Can't Fighters Have Nice Hobgoblins? Ironfang Invasion

Game Master Stalwart

Oathday, 22 Sarenith, 4717

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Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (10) Wounds (38) HP (103) Saves (13/7/8, +3 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (27/11/26, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire/Cold Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (4/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Yup, spectra shroud for Arel is the way to go. I fully support that. I'll also update my character sheet once I know if my purchases are approved.


Fighter 10 | 103 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 27 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +10

Wow, that's a lotta money! Gonna do some thinking on what I want. As it stands, I might swap my belt of physical perfection for a +4 belt of physical might, which'll make me hit better and harder, along with qualifying me for the next level of two weapon fighting once we hit 11th. It will set me back to just around 1000 GP, but I think it's worth it.


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

If Aerel doesn't need the +1 Warhammer that Benedict gave him a while back (I think he now has a +1 Punching Dagger) then Benedict will take that back and not buy the Greatsword.

I am nervous about Grapples after some of our previous encounters, and two-handed weapons cannot be used in a grapple. Also thinking of maybe getting a Bane Baldric (which doesn't work with two-handed weapons) at some point. (He is 111 short if anyone can help him out...)

@Amkarang- a +2/+2/+2 belt is 16,000 (4+6+6) and would sell back for 8,000; a +4/+4 belt is 40,000 (16+24), or 36,000 with the 10% discount. Net cost of 28,000. I don't think you quite have enough with 4,000 previous and 18,000 new. Also, if we want to formally set up a system of selling items to each other at half price, we could; it seems silly for Amkarang to sell that awesome +2/+2/+2 belt when I am sure anyone else would like to have it (and would pay at least 90% buying a new one).


Benedict the Clever wrote:

Okay, dwarf it is!

For the name, I recalled the name "Haela Brightaxe" from somewhere and realized it was a Forgotten Realms deity. Seemed to be a good fit reading up on her.

Then "Brightaxe" reminded me of Sturm Brightblade from Dragonlance. Okay.

Haela Sturm?
Brings to mind another pretty badass woman. (Lzzy Hale of Halestorm, of course.)

So if nobody minds the derivative name, we have Haela Sturm:

** spoiler omitted **...

Haela works for me. I'm perfectly fine with giving her a background that links up with Benedict. It's a nice hook. I might tweak slightly her reason for showing up to Longshadow to help move us into the next book, since at this point the story takes a slight left turn.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

@Benedict, you are welcome to the hammer. I'd forgotten it was yours, actually.


Fighter 10 | 103 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 27 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +10

Oh, dang right. Forgot about only selling for half.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

I've updated Aerel except for the proposed spectral shroud.

I will also spend gold to replenish arrows.


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

I can help Amkarang out here.

Benedict has 14,289 after retraining and the armor upgrade.
He will buy Amkarang's +2/+2/+2 belt for 8,000 (same as he would get for selling it back) and loan Amkarang another 6,000 (to come out of the next distribution). Leaving Benedict with 289 GP plus an un-upgraded Belt of Giant Strength +2 that he can give to Haela (she'll be getting a bunch of hand-me-downs I expect).

Amkarang had around 22,000? So with 14,000 from Benedict (8,000 purchase and 6,000 loan) he can afford a +4/+4 belt (36,000).

Aerel should get the shroud.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

Adding the shroud to my character sheet.


Fighter 10 | 103 HP | AC 24 (25 in fortress mode, 27 w/ full attack), T 14, F 20, CMD 27| F 9 R 8 W 8 | Init +3 | Perc +10

Sounds great!


As much as I'm looking forward to getting started with the fourth book, we've got an issue. William's player hasn't posted since December and here we are at the end of January.

I dragged my heels after PMing him, hoping that he can get back to joining us, but we might need to face the fact that we've lost William.

If we have to add a new player, then it'd probably be best we do this while everyone is still in Longshadow during the downtime of crafting and buying stuff before heading out into the wilds again.

Thoughts? Should we give William a few more days to see if he comes back? Or should we reach out for a new player?


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

William has started to post again in the Wrath of the Righteous game he is running after a bit of a hiatus. So I don't know. Give him a few more days?

I have generally not had very good luck with new players coming in at high levels to existing PbP campaigns. It's quite a bit different from recruiting new PCs near the start. I have found - and this might just be bad luck on my part - that they tend to be more focused on the excitement of getting to build a high-level PC and less focused on actually playing the game and sticking with it.

I do have some specific players I would trust to build a high-level PC that integrates well with our party and our campaign, and who I would trust to stick with it; I am sure the rest of you do as well.

Other options are we get more cohorts or we level up to 11 (maybe get a bit more gold as well) and proceed with 4 (I would switch up Haela to cover more of William's capabilities).


Male Human Fighter 10| AC 28/26 T 16 FF 23/21 | HP 104/104| F +10 R +9 W +5; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +15

Sorry I missed your PM. I am still around. I will try to get a post up this weekend and update my sheet. Sorry for the delay.


Male Human Fighter 10| AC 28/26 T 16 FF 23/21 | HP 104/104| F +10 R +9 W +5; +3 vs Fear | Init +5 | Perc +15

+1 Mithral Full Plate 11500 - 1150 = 10350 gp
+2 Adaptive Goblinoid Bane Composite Longbow Upgrade 16,000 - 1600 = 14400
Efficient Quiver 1800 - 180 = 1620 gp
Handy Haversack 2000 - 200 = 1800

After adding in gold from this adventure I have 34046 gp. If I buy everything on my list I have 5876 left and will sell the mwk. breastplate and msk. buckler yielding 252.5.

I'll also buy 18 gp of cold iron arrows. 60 academical silver arrows 123 gp. If anyone else has any suggestions please let me know.

If ok'd I'll add everything to my sheet.


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

@William - I would really suggest you get a headband of Int +2 so you have a 3rd-level spell slot.


Benedict, I'm not finding the trait Frontier Healer in the SRD, as well as the Healer's Satchel.

What are they, and what do they do?

I'm assuming Haela is using the Treat Deadly Wounds use of the Heal skill, which burns up two uses of a healer's kit. Or is she taking the -4 penalty for not having one?


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

The Frontier Healer trait is from Ironfang Invasion Player's Guide. +1 trait bonus, Heal is a class skill, and Treat Deadly Wounds restores an extra +1 HP, +1 per 2 levels beyond 1st (so +4 for Haela).

The Healer's Satchel works as a healer's kit with 10 charges that recharges each day. I misread the bonus, though; it only gives a +2 circumstance bonus to "treat deadly wounds" (as per a normal healer's kit) with the +4 reserved for "first aid" and "treating poison." But then there is additional healing if she does expend charges (2*Wis bonus, for another +4 HP).

The Healer's Hands feat removes the need to burn up charges from a Healer's Kit, and removes the 1/day/creature limit, and makes it a full-round action. She can still do mundane healing once this ability is expended for the day.

Total Heal bonus (no satchel): +16, for a 26, healing 26 HP (20 base, +4 Frontier Healer, +2 Wis for Heal skill beating the DC by 5)
Total Heal bonus (2 satchel charges): +18, for a 28, healing 30 HP (20 base, +4 Frontier Healer, +2 Wis for Heal skill, +4 from 2*Wis from satchel charges)

If she can get to a 30 then that is another +8 HP from her ranks in Knowledge (Planes).


Re: the grappling rules.

Huh. I guess that means that in Pathfinder world, every raptor that hunts in that style by swooping down and snatching its prey and carrying it off must starve since it has to take a -20 on its grapple check.

Yeah.

Makes sense.


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Or, it does the Grab one round, and then the "move with Grappled foe" by winning a check the next round.

The PF grapple rules are pretty bad, admittedly, and Grab has been a huge problem for us multiple times so maybe we could have done better to ward against it. Getting Unfettered Shirts for everyone, maybe, or Talismans of Freedom for the archers.

If you don't use the -20 rule, rocs can trivially beat just about any 10th-level martial other than one super-specialized against Grapple (Ftr with Shield Specialization, Advanced Armor Training-Unmoving, and the human FCB could have +17 over our numbers).

If you do use it, then rocs have a good chance against 1/2 BAB, a decent chance against 3/4, and slim chances against most martials.

But hey, you are the GM, whatever you think best.

If by your ruling it did manage to fly away with Aerel, the question then becomes how far away is it, and can it still take AOOs (for Benedict flying in).

William is our best bet to take it down, of course.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

Pretty sure I'm screwed since I failed to notice it flying in. Does it fly low enough for the meteor hammer to have an AoO against it?


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

I kind of thought Grum would use Flight Mastery, which is why I didn't leave the dragon for him to ride. He can fly on his own.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (10) Wounds (38) HP (103) Saves (13/7/8, +3 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (27/11/26, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire/Cold Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (4/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

Shyt…forgot all about that! GM, if it’s alright could I go back for that? Otherwise I’ll activate it next turn


You can change your action. The rocs have 15' reach so readying an action to swing won't be effective.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

The roc has Flyby Attack and grab. It would seem that it could fly to its target, attack (with grab to initiate the grapple) and fly off. The mitigating factor for that would be, I would think, that a roc has a Stealth bonus of +2. How I did not see it with a Perception bonus of +24 when I'm on high alert for aerial threats because we are looking for drakes will haunt me for the few rounds it will take me to bleed out.

Do we have the rules for building replacement characters somewhere convenient?


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M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Aerel will make it. William will probably down the roc on his turn, and if not, then Benedict will drop it with an AOO when it tries to fly away. Aerel can also draw a dagger and attack the roc while grappled (it has to pull him adjacent to grapple him - can't keep him at 15' away). Aerel might take some falling damage, but we'll save him.

I was thinking about the -20 thing... with a +29, then even with the -20 a Roc can fly off with an ordinary human (CMD 10) with no problem. So that's what it would normally do. Attack humans (or horses, CMD 17), take the -20, and succeed most of the time.

We, however, are nearly legendary heroes (that is, nearly Level 11 - see Legend Lore). And even though none of us are optimized for Grapple CMD, Aerel's CMD is still comparable to that of an elephant. We are not ordinary humans (or elves/aasimar/half-orcs) by any stretch of the imagination. The roc has to work hard to grapple us because of our sheer awesomeness.


Aerel Truthseeker wrote:

How I did not see it with a Perception bonus of +24 when I'm on high alert for aerial threats because we are looking for drakes will haunt me for the few rounds it will take me to bleed out.

Do we have the rules for building replacement characters somewhere convenient?

This was a planned encounter from the book.

With the book ignoring that and the grapple rules making their written tactics completely worthless, I'm about ready to shelve this encounter entirely.

I could say you spotted them, shot some arrows to drive them away, and move on.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

No, play it out, please. I was having a bad day and this is where I vented.

Sovereign Court

Half-Orc Dragonheir Scion (10) Wounds (38) HP (103) Saves (13/7/8, +3 vs spells and SLAs) Init (+1) AC (27/11/26, +2 vs goblinoids) Fire/Cold Resist (10) CMD (26) BB (4/5) Buffs (Ability Mastery +2 Str)

I have a rules question. As an all martial group, this might be a good place to ask.

(1) Ascetic Style (Benefit(s): Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.)
(2) Class Oni Enforcer Vigilante
- Steel Dictate (An oni enforcer gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and when he hits with his unarmed strike, he gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to half his vigilante level (minimum +1, maximum of +5)
- Fist of the Avenger (The vigilante gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, if he doesn’t have this feat already. In addition, whenever he successfully attacks with his fist or a gauntlet, he gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to half his vigilante level (minimum +1, maximum of +5). Only an avenger vigilante can select this talent.)

These augment an unarmed strike. So, would a vigilante with ascetic style, at lvl10, do +10 damage? If so…at lvl 10 it would be about 1d10+32 damage, give or take. Am I reading this right?


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M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

I'm not sure if Ascetic Style works with the other options. Fist of the Avenger seems to be limited to just fists and gauntlets, not all unarmed strikes. (There are quite a few newer options that only work for certain kinds of unarmed strikes - like the Unchained Monk style strikes.) So even if Ascetic Style lets you apply "unarmed strike" effects to your Seven-Branched Sword, does it let you apply Fist of the Avenger? That might be table variation.

The combination would definitely work for a fist or gauntlet. You could use Shielded Gauntlet style to boost the damage die, or Outslug Style to boost the static bonus.

A +10 bonus from class features at level 10 is pretty good; it's what a cavalier get from Challenge, or a paladin from Smite, but it is all the time. Maybe more comparable is the +level to damage that a swashbuckler gets from Precise Strike. Swashbuckler has a wider crit range, but his damage bonus doesn't double on a crit, and vigilante can TWF.

A Ftr10 has (before gear) +4 to hit and +4 damage from class features (WF, WS, GWF, and Weapon Training +2), which I suppose compares decently well to +0 to hit and +10 damage.

I don't know much about the vigilante class or their other options for increasing accuracy and damage. I suspect that a GM might interpret this based on their impression of the class's overall power.


Male Elf Fighter (archer)/rogue* 10 | AC 23 (25 with buckler), T 17, F 17, CMD 28 | F 10 R 11 W 7 | hp 66/74 | Init +6 | Perc +24, +29 vs traps, darkvision 60' | Effects:

Does a salvo of arrows from a hidden target render all targets flat-footed? Or only the first? If I shoot an unsuspecting target more than once, is he only flat-footed to the first attack? In other words, how can I maximize the effectiveness of my sneak attacks?

Aerel attempted to hide when the party moved up to attack hoping to delay his action until he could open fire on an ogre that didn't know he was there for sneak attack goodness. Is it better if I ready a shot for when one gets into range since only the first shot will give me sneak attack damage, or should I hold my action, wait until the ogres have made their first attacks since I can't interrupt, and take a full attack?


M Aasimar Fighter 7/Chevalier 3| HP 85/94 | AC 28 (30 vs goblins), T 14, FF 25, CMD 28 | Init +5 | Perception +18 (Darkvision) | F/R/W +12/+9/+7 (+4 vs mind-affecting, immune to fear/poison) | Move 30' | Tactician 1/1 | BB 1/1 | Alter Self 1/1 | Active: None

Go ahead and take your full attack. With Haste, it might drop one even without Sneak Attack.

On my turn (after the ogres go) I will Greater Feint one of them so you can get Sneak Attack on all of your attacks next round.

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