Tall, handsome DM seeking PBPers for good time. Contact by roll20. Available next few hours work permitting.
In ER with my son. I will update this game as soon as life and work allows.
Hope everything is going to be okay...
I’m concerned with ending this campaign in a climactic way, given how you guys have a tendency to blow stuff up before it can even flinch. As Jelani frequently puts it, this is Rocket Tag now.
So...I am considering ending the campaign in a dice-free, narrative manner. I’m curious what you guys think. I’d still be open to your inputs, and I won’t just be letting you guys text-win or text-lose. I’d keep things dramatic.
So, vote:
1) Narrative Ending with DM controlled dramatic tension
or
2) Dice roll it out
When you say "ending" the campaign, how fast are we talking? Would we just be continuing as normal sans dice? Or would you essentially be posting "And the Varisian Rangers killed Karzoug, and everyone (except our greedy antagonist obviously) lived happily ever after!"?
I vote 2, even if we blow through everything.
As normal sans dice. I’d be taking some creative liberties and making some calls for/against your characters for the sake of dramatic effect and story, but it wouldn’t be anything like:
”Karzoug shows up and disintegrated Jeevika!”
Anyway, like Jelani, I am partial to Option 2. Rolling some dice makes the whole gaming experience feel more authentic. That said, I am perfectly happy to skip mook fights like the ones with those archer vultures.
Back in the ER with kid. Will post when I can.
My thoughts:
*Most important is getting to drive this to a final, satisfying conclusion!*
If possible, I'd keep going with rolling, since that's the way the campaign has gone up until this point.
That said, while I haven't really too much Pathfinder at this level, I know there can be problems. Thron, if you help detail the problems you're worried about, maybe we can help brainstorm solutions. I'll give it a start:
1. Rocket Tag (sometimes summarized as "whoever wins initiative wins") comes from offenses (whether damage or high spell DCs) outpacing defenses, right?
>> If the main concern is that we kill the bad guys too fast, does increasing their HP (and/or Saves & AC & DR) do the trick? And/or increasing the number of foes?
>> To the extent that we're at risk of this happening to *us*, perhaps we can also either pump up our defenses...or have Thron reduce the deadliness of encounters he's concerned about by fiat.
2. Another High Level Play problem is particular problematic abilities (e.g. certain high level spells that can sidestep encounters). Is that an issue too?
>> To the extent that we're going to make the campaign less dramatic via using a power that we have, based on RAW...I *personally* would be fine with choosing dramatic over getting to use a particular fun power. (It seems like the campaign already allows for that with Teleportation barriers within Xin-Shalast).
What do you think?
What additional problems do you see?
I think this game has had too many deaths and severely close calls for it to not end at a satisfying conclusion.
That being said, I can understand you not wanting Karzoug to go down like a chump in one round, before he even gets to act. And that's a situation I see far too commonly in my irl tabletop games. The adventures are written with the assumption of a measure of inefficiency on the characters. When experienced gamers build their characters very close to optimum effectiveness, then at higher levels the big bads get steamrolled.
I like Jeevika's idea of skipping/handwaving the mook fights but rolling out the big ones. And I think adding some narrative and embellishments aren't entirely out of the realm of possibility. Just make sure that there's something we can do, since being nerfed to the point we can't fight back won't be any fun either.
Well, I’m not trying to say “I want the bad guys to win.”
The PC’s are the stars. But on that same note they are only the heroes they can be as “heroic” as the acts of villainy they overcome. If Karzoug and his most trusted lieutenants are such push overs narratively that it’s over in one spell or one slice of a sword, the moments of tension aren’t very tense for anyone involved.
Sounds like everyone is on board with a bit of narrative control overriding RAW at this point. So, if I write up something that seems odd, or makes you scratch your head as to how it overcame X ability or what have you, the short answer is likely DM-Fiat in the name of dramatic tension and story building.
As is, my posts will likely be limited to access to laptop for mass typing. In the mean time, you guys feel free to RP as the current scene fits. And I’ll update as I can.
*swoops in on flying walrus*
5E design might be a worthwhile compromise by way of Legendary creatures, which are given some "cheat" mechanics that fall outside the normal scope of gameplay. Namely, they have a finite number of times per day when they can just flat out succeed on a saving throw they've failed (Legendary Resistance, usually 3/day). They also get Legendary Actions, which allow them to act at the end of a player's turn (usually a total of 3 of these out-of-turn actions are allowed, but different actions can have a higher cost depending on it's potency--for example: teleporting 120 feet away might cost one action, while a negative burst dealing 10d10 damage to everyone in a 60 foot radius might consume all 3 actions).
Food for thought. There are also Lair Actions, which take place at a fixed point on any given initiative order each round. They can help spice up the encounter dynamic by giving everyone something to contend with beyond one sack of hit points.
Quicker than intended post to explain my absence lately:
1. Kid: he’s okay, but been battling a virus for about a week and a half. Finally been symptom free for about two to three days.
2. Work: still working as much OT as I can grab.
3. Wife Aggro: anytime I so much as THINK I have free time to post, she uses her super-wife-mind-reading-powers to come up with something for me to not have free time. As is, I’m hiding in the bathroom to post this to all my games. Example 2, today was secretly planned to be a big day of relaxation and posting. She and the kid were supposed to be at school. Instead, she wanted me to keep the kid. Reason: just because.
4. Interviews: been to multiple interviews lately trying to get into a better job that will require less OT. No such luck so far, with one last major option within my hospital in process. Low odds of getting picked. May have to start looking outside of my facility.
I’m PLANNING on tomorrow being my 1 “me day” in the past few weeks and getting some posts caught up. We will see how that goes.
I will be away from my PC this weekend, I probably won't post until Sunday night or Monday.
I will figure out my spells for the day when I get back too. Assume veil is one of them if needed.
Lurking as I catch up on some posting.
Lorthan's up
I really have no idea what to have Lorthan do at this point. Any thoughts?
Wasn't the plan for him to take to the air this turn to keep Elthariel out of range of the giants?
Lurking as I get some posts in before I run errands.
So yeah...just did a skim through of the remaining enemies you guys have to face.
It's basically them having to try and fish for crits just to even hit you front line folk. And for spellcasters, your saves would have to be abysmally low to fail the checks.
I think this game is basically on autopilot until the final fight. There is only one enemy left who can even hit you with an attack, and even then it requires a roll of 19 or 20.
Yeah, that's what happened in Absalom at like level 7-8ish. You just gotta give them +10 to hit and AC and maximized healthx4 or similar. If all you increase are their to hit to give them a 50/50 shot of hitting a frontliner, saves, and HP it won't kill us.
Those massive area of effect attacks were very potent. If Jeevika had not been built like a tank and running Frightful Aspect plus full HP, you probably would have dropped her. Everyone else sans Zoli and Olympus (with their fancy Improved Evasion) and Ryli at full HP would have flatly died.
Lurking a bit.
lurking on R20. (CDL, just missed ya, back now)
Lurking while I throw a couple posts up before heading out for a couple of chores.
Lurking as above.
Lurking at work.
Everyone go ahead and level up to 17!
Ryli: Lorthan remains the same. Having him as a cohort as is is already ahead of his normal cohort level by the rules.
You guys encounter and deal with the “bug man” which is in fact an Ice Devil. During the fight he boasts enough that you know he refers to himself as Gamigin, and he has been pulling strings throughout Golarion since the time of Earthfall in some way or another, be it as a god to a tribe of primitives, or as a power behind the throne to kings, to all sorts of other machinations. During the fight, Jeevika manages to cleave his hand from his body, conveniently the one wearing another of the Sihedron Rings. He manages to teleport away, however, and does not bother you in this adventure again.
He also has a treasure trove. This consists of three darkwood chests (themselves worth 300 gp apiece) containing 4,500 gp, 220 pp, and 8,000 gp in assorted gems and jewelry.
You now have 3 rings. That is all you can find so far.
Jeeves will claim that ring. It's too poetic not to wear it.
@Thron: Would Elthariel object to staying with the Skulks while we explore the Pinnacles? Jeevika would not want to take her into a known death zone.
She’s your cohort. She’ll obligingly do whatever.
Suggestion: both thematically and RP wise, may wanna leave Lorthan and Olympus with her. You currently only have 3 rings and THINK Zoli’s sword may protect her since it was fused with her Sihedron Amulet. So only, at best, 4 of you are protected.
Eugeni - ring
Jeevika - ring
Ryli - ring
Zoli - sword?
Olympus
Lion (will be protected due to familiar link)
Lorthan
Elthariel
Otherwise, if you start giving rings to non-PC’s, the PC’s themselves will be contending with this “death zone.” Sure, you guys may be able to endure it. But for how long? Eventually saves start failing. *shrug*
Olympus is an animal. Would the death field even affect him?
Read the rules on it to triple check, and yep.
Welp, looks like it's carry companion until we turn the stupid field off.
Woot! A 4th iterative attack!
Away for the weekend, will update and Post when able
I am heading out of state later today to look at more houses this weekend. Don't expect any posting from me until Sunday or Monday.
I leveled up finally, sorry for the delay. Not much changed for me. More HP, a couple more metamagic feats, a couple more 8th level spells known.
The new feats do mean that I can drop guaranteed 367 damage per fourth level spell slot (assuming all my touch attacks hit). Could do it twice per round if I want to blow an eighth level slot too...so that's a 90.25% chance to do 734 damage/round to anything with a touch AC of less than 14, for at least four rounds a day.
Did I break the game yet?
(Zoli looks at Eugeni's DPR and cries herself to sleep in the corner)
;-)
EDIT: anyone have feat suggestions for Zoli? I get 2 this level.
One option:
Cautious Fighter + Oslyth's Guile mean that when fighting defensively I'll get +11 AC vs a designated foe, and +6 AC vs all others (for -2 to hit).
Other suggestions?
EDIT #2: OK, Zoli feels a bit better about DPR now. ;0)
EDIT #3: Settled on two Halfling only feats: Cautious Fighter + Risky Striker (which lets me lower my AC -4 for +8 to damage. What could go wrong?).
Hanging on the r20 some today as work allows.
Driving again this weekend.
The intensity of my house moving has ratcheted up considerably. Please stand by.
I don't think splitting the party is a good idea, so... any objections to Zoli and me just cutting the door to ribbons? Our little swashbuckler is capable of casually outputting 200+ damage a round, and we both have adamantine weapons. Between her and Jeevika going all out and a Haste from Eugeni, it'll likely take less time than Zoli just picking the lock.
As it would turn out, objects are immune to critical hits, which makes sense. That said, I couldn't find anything about objects being immune to precision damage; in Pathfinder (as opposed to D&D 3.5), constructs and undead are vulnerable to precision damage. There's a case to be made that Zoli would get her +16 precision damage to her attacks here. Granted, it would also make sense if Thron ruled otherwise.
Alrighty then! I stab the wall in it's tender parts. ;-)
(Honestly, I can imagine an eye for weak spots and a carful aim helping one against a zombie, skeleton, or even some clockwork creature...but I'm not sure that precision helps against walls. That said, I'll happily take Thron's ruling.)
BTW, mom is in good spirits and has moved out of ICU. I'm exhausted, but hope to post to Legacy tomorrow.
Cheers.
Glad to hear that your mother is in good spirits.
We're actually trying to destroy an existing door, so it could be that Zoli is targeting the lock, the hinges, and so forth.
@Ryli: Divine Interference?
Definitely doing that. It'll have a -3 to its attack, too. I just can't see the map, so I can't place my summons right now. I'll have to post later.
@Thron: Just a few things regarding Zoli's rolls.
1) Wrathblade is a holy weapon, so Little Z should likely get +2d6 for each hit she got.
2) Since Zoli most likely still has one panache point, she gets her swashbuckler level in precision damage (+16) for each attack thanks to Precise Strike.
3) Thanks to Signature Deed, I believe Zoli's Bleeding Wound ability automatically kicks in, which will gives the fool 9 bleed damage.
4) Zoli didn't roll a Haste attack. Eugeni cast that on us last round.
5) Going by past posts, a 17 appears to be threatening critical range for Zoli, so that first attack likely needs a confirm.
6) Zoli rolled a Natural 20 on that last roll, but there was no roll to confirm.
7) She has a +2 from flanking and +1 from Haste to attack rolls.
I'm bringing all this up because the missing numbers likely translate to a dead monster.
It likely would, but as a DM in this now very high level game, there are just too many things for me to keep tabs on including buffs, enemy abilities, player abilities, etc. If you can figure up the result of those additions and post them for me, I'm happy to amend the results.
But, if I am put in a position to DMPC someone to keep the game moving, as I've stated before, it will be the most basic action I can do for that character given their skillset. In the case of a fighter, that is a full round attack or move. In the case of a caster, it will be a single spell and a move.
But...I'd prefer to not have to DMPC anyone :).
So yeah...if you tabulate that stuff and post it, I'll adjust.
And please continue to point out anything I miss or overlook. Like I said...a whole hell of a lot for me to keep an eye on from here on in. Including things on the map you guys can't see yet.
If all that extra stuff hits, Zoli just did an extra +237 damage. Yeah, that's all extra damage!
Will post Jeevika's actions later. I need to think through her many, many options.