The Jade Regent (Inactive)

Game Master Vuvu

Ameiko has a horse and every night someone sleeps outside

Thanks MiniGM. We will have to account for the extra horse then for consumption once we get things ironed out.

That d5 I rolled a ways back was to determine who's bedroll the baby fled to...used the relationship chart for the numbers...lucky baby I think had it ended in anyone's else's bedroll she would have been killed already, though it doesn't look good for her anyhow

Also everyone make sure you read the spoilers that showed what the baby gave exiel if it might influence your character

interesting I expected everyone to be calling for it to be killed on the spot.

kill on spot usually = not-good, I think most of us have "good" in our alignments.

Usually sure, but not always.

And oddly while Shiori is Chaotic Good, she believes that leaving the goblin alive and free is asking for trouble.

If it didn't seek protection from Exiel and it granted by Exiel approaching Sandru then Mary would be next in line behind Shiori to take a stab at it.

I was actually expecting Shalelu to have the maturity to at least understand Exiel's position, if not agree with it. Shalelu hates goblins, but I always took her portrayal to be wise and fair rather than so consumed by hatred as to be blind to all else.

You can change your mind and execute the goblin if you like...

But remember how you were going to change your trait because Shalelu had a history from my RotRL game. This is part of it. The dice did not do you a service by rolling you

http://paizo.com/campaigns/TheJadeRegent/gameplay&page=31#1549

Look here exiel

yeah you even replied to her, sorry you the dice have put you in a tough spot.

Things just got interesting for Shalelu...oh yes they did.

Need to ask. Did anyone think that Exiel's speech to Shalelu was written in an attempt to change her mind rather than actually encourage her to kill the goblin?

Yes I did. The problem is you tried to have it all. You didn't want to upset her and didn't want to kill the kid. She said straight up kill it, they are all monsters then you put the choice in her hand 1 minute later.

Everyone now knows that one of shalelu a things that will harm relationship is positivity about goblins (from the book, not my addition)

So do I read this correctly exiel? You are quitting?

So do I read this correctly exiel? You are quitting?

Well, depends on how the next few posts pan out I suppose. Nothing personal, of course, but I'm always open to having a character leave the group if I find that the situation becomes untenable for him/her to remain (rather than having a contrived situation that ruins the story).

At this point, I've based Exiel's perception of Shalelu on her write-up and portrayal in RotR, but he does not know how the events of your earlier campaign changed her, so from his perspective, Shalelu has changed very dramatically, becoming far harder and more cruel than he thought she would be. I mean, she hated goblins in RotR, but was also always calm and level-headed, and she showed a significantly softer side to herself in her extended write-up in book 3, so Exiel was hoping to get her to reluctantly relent from killing the helpless goblin child by appealing to her softer side, by hinting that doing so would run completely contrary to the person he knew her to be (or who she was before the events of your RotR campaign), and that she was at risk of losing herself in hatred if she went ahead with killing the goblin.

Having failed to appeal to a gentler side he thought she had, and having seen her choose to be controlled by hatred, he is having a bit of a BSOD.

Hey all, just thought I should make a post about the recent development, since it may well end up with Exiel being unable to continue to the group.

Unfortunately, it's worked out the the die roll sending the goblin child to Exiel might as well have been a crit with a x4 weapon. The factors that caused it were:
1. Exiel's code and personality, set in stone from the start
2. Shalelu's personality, as shaped by MiniGM's RotR campaign (Exiel had an opportunity to find out more about this and missed it, but to the extent that it was set in stone - I am told that even a nat 20 would not have changed her mind - nothing would have changed even if he had known)
3. Thribden's decision to adopt the goblin - Exiel knew that bringing a goblin back to Sandpoint would put him in a difficult position with Shalelu and specifically advocated strongly against it, but since Thribden took responsibility for it, Exiel decided to let her work it out.
4. Thribden's decision to drop out and the GM's decision to have the goblin child follow us nonetheless. As an NPC, this was well within the GM's right to do so, so I am not faulting him on this.
5. All of the above however meant that from the moment the die roll sent the goblin to Exiel, things would go into a spiral.

Those of you familiar with the Avatar series would probably have perceived that Exiel's mentor was based on Iroh from that series, and to some extent, Exiel's personality is shaped by that as a result. Exiel's disappointment with Shalelu's actions (which to me seem more in keeping with a neutral rather than good alignment) and the fact that it was impossible to change her mind (c.f. point 2 above) despite his best efforts has put Exiel in a similar position to where Iroh and Zuko were in Season 3 of Avatar, and I thus cannot see Exiel choosing to do anything but leaving. The motives, like Iroh's in the relevant point of the series, are twofold. He is genuinely abjectly disappointed with Shalelu and cannot deal with being around her right now, and he harbours some faint hope that his relationship with Shalelu and reaction to her decision/actions will shock her into reconsidering her path.

Ultimately, Exiel cares far more about Shalelu and the path she is heading down than the goblin child. From his perspective, Shalelu has started on a path that will lead her to CN, and potentially even to CE if left unchecked. His recent actions are targeted at rescuing Shalelu from that path, and thus, I believe, not an absolute or flagrant infraction of his alignment, though he took a risky and ultimately un-wise gamble. Which again is in keeping with his characterisation as one who has alot of handed-down wisdom, but lacks judgment and wisdom of his own (kinda like Zuko). I think however that his motivations are in keeping with his alignment, especially in light of the fact that he genuinely believed that Shalelu would relent (and the shock of finding out just how wrong he was is precisely the reason why he is reacting the way he is).

I should clarify that I am content with this outcome. It's how the characterisations and dice rolls have played out, and if it's how the story rolls, I'm satisfied with that. People often think they know other people only to find out they are completely mistaken, and sometimes life throws you for a loop. As I said before, I'd rather leave a coherent story early than have things changed specifically to keep me in. If Exiel's reaction is insufficient to change Shalelu's mind (and it looks like it may not), then the story calls for Exiel's exit, and I hope we can all be happy with it. =)

Ok, so if Exiel leaves, what does that mean, will you make a new character?

One more thing about the goblin child: Exiel's perception was that even if the rest of the group agreed, the child had no chance as long as Shalelu was determined to kill it (this is probably still the case, but I hope any character who would try to track the goblin will still try anyway). Her tracking and combat skills pretty much meant that failure to persuade Shalelu equaled dead goblin. In hindsight, the inflexibility of Shalelu's disposition and Exiel's mistaken perception of her meant that, in a roundabout way, the goblin was doomed even if it was sent to Exiel. XD

Exiel you cannot accurately speculate on Shalelu. You can obly speculate on exiel.

As to a new character there is no opportunity coming up to bring someone in. So if exiel leaves you are down one character. When we reach a place to recruit a PC we can address the idea.

If you are convinced that you have to go I understand and am sorry to see you go.

In light of this if anyone else does not wish to continue I understand. These relationships are living things, I do not play the game on easy mode you WILL be faced w hard choices, and if you make mistakes bad things WILL happen. That said nothing is irreparable, well mostly.

Heh, I actually think we speculate on other people all the time. It's just that sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're not. It's part of life and people not knowing other people perfectly. As you say, relationships have a life of their own - so though we speculate on people all the time, you're right in that it is just as often accurate as it is not. Though with Exiel, there is no element of speculation - I know exactly what he is thinking and hence what he will do. ;)

I'm comfortable with ending this iteration of Exiel's story here, if it does not work out. It just means that I rewind the clock on this character and play out his story in another (probably different) adventure path. Not that it hasn't been fun, mind you, but I'm always happy for things to pan out as they happen to. It's role-PLAY, not real life, after all. =)

Just as it was with Shalelu, there probably aren't many things that will change Exiel's mind at this stage, but let's see how things pan out before saying goodbye. =)

Pretty much waiting on you here ex to reply to Koya. You need to make your intention in game clear and if a player changes your mind great if not bummer but we med to continue

Alright folks. I attempted to communicate via pm and sport w exiel, but he preferred to be passive aggressive about it with his actions, which is why we reached the point we did. He was a good player, who made a poor choice in game, period. Then did not want to hear anything but what he wanted to hear when I didn't do what he wanted.

All of that is fine. However, this is an opp for anyone who does not think that I handled the in game situation fairly to communicate w me. It may mean that some of you don't want to continue. There is truly nothing wrong w wanting a game on easy mode, there isn't. But this will not be it.

If you wish to continue just post in gp. If you have concerns spoiler or pm me.. I hope you all continue on but I do not want to put in the hours it takes to run this game if people don't want to play the game I am running

Anyhow sorry for indulging the argument on your time folks. I have a super busy day but I will be reading your posts as we go.

Darinius let me know what you knew about your spear and if you had any expectation of its story and I will make sure you learn more

I do not know what people intended OOC. However, I think that IC this is the sort of thing that happens. Koytine is rather ticked that nobody else stood up for the mini-goblin. It did nothing evil or aggressive. Koytine does not really follow any mantra or set of rules other then freedom. However, she is good and will always do what she thinks is right. Exiel is LG and I assume follows a specific code. I have not read his background and have not spent a lot of time researching Torag as this is not a deity that has ever really interested me as a person, so I have never run a Torag worshipping character and I do not know what code Exiel follows.

In this case, Shalelu has a serious prejudice against goblins. In the USA, for a long time a good portion of the population had fairly serious prejudices against individuals with darker skin. Did this make these people evil? In my opinion no. There were those who liked to wear tall white hats who took the prejudice to the extreme. Were these people evil. Most likely. Perhaps they were simply ignorant or stupid, but clearly those in charge did not have good souls despite what they may have thought personally.

Here, we need to work to show Shalelu that all goblins are not evil. This is not going to happen overnight and might not happen at all. We all know old farts who still blame all that is wrong in society on jews or blacks or muslims or japanese or communists or socialists or gays or whatever other group they happen to be blaming on that particular day. I hope that Shalelu is not so extreme, or ignorant. But until that time, we will have to tread carefully with her.

In Golarian most goblins are evil. This is not the case in the real world, most people of all groups, racial, religious, political or otherwise, are not evil. However, players can play goblins or drow or orcs and be LG or NG in this game. There is no reason that an NPC goblin could not be likewise. However, with Shalelu, until we convince her otherwise with some well placed Diplomacy rolls and IC communication, we are going to have to tread lightly and do what we can to keep the goblin child, if we can find it (I have not read the IC thread), out of trouble and safe.

I believe that many who grew up in sandpoint would have a hard time accepting any goblin, some more then others. The fact that this one was part of the very same tribe that attacked sandpoint in the past does not help.

Just look how the story started, we went and executed a bunch of Goblins just because they had fireworks and they were the same tribe that had attacked sandpoint in the past.

If Shiori would have been the one to wake up with the Goblin in her sleeping bag, she likely would have killed it on the spot.

OOC I thought it would have been interesting to have the goblin around, it's the main reason I took the goblin language at level 2, so that Shiori could be aggressive to the goblin if someone else had decided to raise it.

If we end up finding the goblin again, I suggest not letting it be alone with just about everyone in the caravan.

I think Koytine has some valid points in that if we want Shalelu to change we need to show her how to change and that it is for the good. The problem though, like Shiori mentions is that myself, Shelalu, Ameiko, Shiori all have problems with goblins in our past. I, like Shiori, would have slit the goblins throat and presented the thief to the group as a problem solved.

In hindsight I wish Exiel would have claimed the goblin as then we would not have had to worry about who was in charge of it and had the chance to RP it out. Now unless someone else steps forward and claims it like Koya or Koytine then it has a very good chance of being killed on the spot.

I guess what I am asking is do we want to try and redeem Shalelu or not? IC Mary is not interested in that as Shalelu is someone that Mary has heard of but not spent time with. OOC, if that is what the group needs to continue then I will oblige as I don't want anyone else leaving over this. It's s shame that Exiel couldn't get past this and modify his perceptions of Shalelu but that is where we are at this time.

In short I am all for continuing on just wondering what people's expectations and thoughts are.

Well i would say that I would consider the execution if a baby goblin who actively sought your protection and delivered payment into your hands an evil act.

Doesn't mean you can't do it, or that you have to protect it but just keep that in mind. Had you killed it all the way back in the village right away I would have accepted it.

I would agree if people knew about the goblin the entire time. Kowing if a previous party member befriended a goblin child is different then a completely random goblin child that you dont know about showing up stealing food from a caravan. Luckily it is a moot point unless the goblin shows up again which I highly doubt.

On a side note though, are the any towns coming up to acquire another character or should we reduce the number in the party for the caravan spreadsheet?

For now reduce consumption by 1.

I just meant that if this gobbo is found again and isn't attacking you killing it is evil. I just like to give fair warning

The only chance is a random encounter until after brinewall. I have a friend that is interested in creating a character. But the AP is written for 4 so you will be fine.

The real difference is that there is an inference that goblins are evil. Therefore, if someone had found the goblin in their bedroll and immediately killed it, it would likely have been nothing. Once someone knew that the goblin not only did not want to hurt people, but actually wish to be friends, then the killing became an evil act.

Shalelu is a slightly different case. Because of her dire hatred, this is more like manslaughter than murder in the modern parlance. It would be considered an act of passion, and, thus, probably not an evil act in and of itself. Now, if Shalelu sits in her wagon for three days dwelling on this and then comes out and kills the goblin baby, at that point it would more likely be first degree murder and an evil act in and of itself.

Sorry for the legal analogy, but that is really what we are dealing with here in my opinion.

legal analogies are fine Koytine. It helps to understand how people are thinking. Speaking of which did you see Mary's response to you earlier after you spoke your mind to the group. If you don't want to respond that is fine as well. Just with the site going berserk didn't know if you saw it or not.

Are you still up for running the caravan as well?

Darinius let me know what you knew about your spear and if you had any expectation of its story and I will make sure you learn more

I had only come up with the name in Tian and Draconic and that it had dragons which Darinius did not recognize (Sovereign dragons) decorating it. Darinius stole it because he is always on the lookout for clues about unusual kinds of dragons.

Now I also know from Exiel that there is a magic spear exactly like it wielded by a hero known as "The Dragon". I did not really have any expectations of the story since Exiel said he had an idea and with this kind of character arc of discovery I prefer to actually not know the background until the character learns it.

Too bad we chased the goblin away. As a player I really really want the party to have a goblin cohort, but there is no way I can justify Darinius actively wanting to keep it around unless it turns out to be a sorcerer or a witch or something.

legal analogies are fine Koytine. It helps to understand how people are thinking. Speaking of which did you see Mary's response to you earlier after you spoke your mind to the group. If you don't want to respond that is fine as well. Just with the site going berserk didn't know if you saw it or not.

Are you still up for running the caravan as well?

If someone else wants to run the caravan, that is fine. I do not mind doing it, I just have had an insane week and have in-laws visiting this weekend for mother's day. After than, I should be able to get caught up next week on things.

I have the time right now so it won't be a problem for me. Just need to know what people want otherwise I will just go with it.

I can host it on my google drive, or do you have a place to host it?

Same place google drive

It is a page or so up that MiniDM posted the link. Should not take long to figure it out. I just keep running out of time.

Thanks. My plan was to share it with all of us. Whether you share the editing privileges is your call.

i will advance to the next day later this evening

alright trying to see if this works for everyone. I have it set to view with comments but no editing thus far.

Talking with MiniGM, he said we could start with 20 stores food. Our starting max is 18 so I dropped it to 18. If we have Ameiko as a cook, Shalelu, Koytine and Mary as scouts for food and efficient resources as our feat we would have a consumption of 16 minus our scouts, cook, and efficient consumption which drops us to 3 + our goblin friend for a total of 4 units per day at 7 days makes it approximately 3 stores. From here on out after Exiel and the goblin are gone our consumption is done to 2 units per day. With 15 stores equaling 150 units we are good for 75 days at this rate.

Mary also purchased some trade stores out f her own pocket which is why you will see a trade value set at 3. the last trade store is with her.

As for the points I placed 2 in mobility to get us going to having more wagons if needed and faster traveling. The last point is in defense as the other 3 derived scores are modified by those in the caravan. I have Darinius and Shiori as guards while we are traveling as they have not indicated anything yet for job placement.

Any input would be great. Here is the caravan as it is laid out.

Hope this works for everyone.

Hotel did not have wifi. I will get a post up once I get home tonight. Sorry for the delay.

all good mary.

i think we have realistically settled into a once per day game, rather than my preference of twice, that is alright as long as we keep moving.

i suspect once the dice make something happen it will pick up

Hello all I am your new friendly neighborhood paladinish man. Hope my thirtieth finds you all well. I have both survival and handle animal if that can feel a slot.

Also mini my npc will be miss Kaijustu

visirik after you sober up from your birthday celebration pop your stats into your profile so we can see them with your posts

Okay. I think that louie ruined me..... it was just so good. Even if it is way way way too expensive lol.

Welcome Visirik

A tiefling Evangelist (Paladin) of Aspu, more then a few interesting choices there.

Welcome aboard. Once I see your skills I will get you inserted into the caravan spreadsheet for job options. Is their anything you would like to do in particular? Scout for food, caravan guard? Once we get a fourth wagon we could use your handle animal skills as a driver. I know that as soon as Mary gets 500gp she is investing in her own covered wagon to add to the caravan. It fits her too perfectly not even if it is more of a party purchase.

In fact I got to looking at it and if I had thought of it originally I would have made that my special item from MiniGM instead of my armor. Oh well.

Again glad to have you with us.