Just I guess remember that Shar's super into murder and deception, more so than would seem obvious.
I'll take Lolth, although I'm not sure I'll be able to do her justice.
I choose Shar.
I know Her basic history and portfolio (hence why it's so appropriate for me to take Her), but I would not object to tips on how to play Her from anyone exceptionally versed in Forgotten Realms lore.
The big things I recall about Shar is that she doesn't really offer you solace, she just allows you to accept loss and pain as normal. You think you have forgotten, but in actuality you've just let the bitterness into you.
She's big on secrets and thus deception like Aethos said. She's also pretty big on despair, part of her dogma is never giving into hope or striving for better unless, of course, Shar is the one instructing you.
And in the realms, at least later versions, she hated the moon goddess (Her sister) and coveted Mystra's hold on magic.
I really don't want to take over a NPC god.
Checking in; I apologize for my absence. I'm sorry to hear Yuugasa isn't able to head things for us here, but I'm glad Zodaxus is able to take over :)
Seems to me things could maybe do with a little injection of life.
I have to catch up on a lot here in the discussion as well as in gameplay yet, which is on the docket for tonight & tomorrow. You guys are awesome. I'll see about taking an NPC god once I get myself more up to speed and get Ishalla back on the ball. Damn inertia working against me now; look for her return late tomorrow or Tuesday, along with intermittent updates to her info on our reference sheet.
Feel free to throw any synopses, updates, requests or advice my way as I'm catching up, and I'll address such first.
Please and thank you for your patience.
Tell me about it. I hope things get better for our gm.
And yeah work has been busy lately for me as well.
I'd be fine with that, Vortae.
Lolth is a backstabbing and manipulative goddess. You can find a lot of stuff on her and her personality anyway online.
I can look up some stuff for you if you like. I know Wikipedia has some great articles on her.
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Regarding some if the talk earlier:
While the original GM is needed to start up the "main plot," I definitely want to have a running story arc of my own to keep this interesting. I think having a single, very well-defined focus world would be good for that, considering I don't want whatever I come up with to outscale the main main plot.
So then, are we up for defining our god's places on a single world where I can then initiate some conflicts?
We'd build the world together of course. By default, it would be mostly covered in water (more so than Earth I mean) just to keep our factions close. (I have learned from things similar to this I have participated in that you always want to keep everything on as small of a spacial scale as possible to ensure the seperate elements interact.)
The only other important fact about it would be that it would have substantial followings for all 20 of us, with none of us being massively more powerful than anyone else.
In addition, it would probably be a good idea for us to come up with some concept for the world which sets it apart from just any other fantasy setting. I definitely want input on this. The below is just my proposal/example
A world wherin exists a single Kingdom of endlessly feuding Noble houses, with each of us having more than one in our service. This kingdom is surrounded by a wall, which is guarded by an order of warriors. This is necessary as the kingdom is surrounded on all sides by a horrific, monster-filled waste. The waste may not be a waste in the sense that it may include lush forests and jungles and lively seas along with its deserts and tundras, but there is essentially no non-monstrous life in it, save for unfortunate slaves and a scattering of prey animals as is needed to sustain an ecosystem.
These monsters are constantly trying to get in, and feud as they might, the Nobles inside all (mostly) want to keep them out.
Atheos has a decent plot of his own to pursue, but beginning it depends on how the whole thing with that Archdevil goes.
Otherwise, I think it makes sense to have one planet where the whole pantheon is worshipped (it should have multiple continents, all the standard D&D/PF races, and an Underdark).
I'd say beyond that each player can optionally propose an additional world (like the dying planet Cil'dr rules) or start with some followers on one of these additional worlds as long as the creator agrees with them starting there.
* * *
I think just our pantheon itself sets our world apart. Unlike the Discworld, we have a very active pantheon AND a god who protects Atheists. I'd recommend multiple continents, so we can have different cultural heritages, etc. (in a cultural map similar to Earth's, Atheos would probably feel most at home in Eastern Europe/Central Asia, for instance).
Actually, building on that, the "Asia/Africa/Europe/New World" continent analogies are common in fantasy, though not identical in each (Faerun is Avistan is Westeros etc.)
Maybe a big part of the difference could be how cultural norms seed across continents.
* * *
Alternately, we start with a ringworld or Dyson sphere created by some precursor demiurge (if not, Atheos will have one somewhere as a secondary world). A ringworld, effectively built, has an area hundreds of times bigger than our world, which means that a small human society could experience a near-endless Age of Exploration. It's kind of cool, and I can talk about the physics more if people like this idea.
Plus, a ringworld being so much bigger than a regular planet makes it a very attractive place to colonize for anyone with space travel (so that interstellar deities like Zodaxus and Cil'dr could have reason to come here with some of their followers and establish bases).
Or, say, Ringworld. o.o
I'm actually liking that idea more and more. It would make the "main" planet physically much larger, with vast unexplored frontiers, and give it a sort of special value above all other worlds.
Plus, ringworlds can be constructed around a star of any size (the goldilocks zone scales); and often out of the planets in a single solar system.
The big difference of a Ringworld is that "dawn" and "dusk" no longer exist. Objects orbiting the sun eclipse it on a regular day-night cycle as the ring rotates, so there is only "day" and "night." Also, the horizon curves up instead of down, meaning you could theoretically see forever, though some combination of fog and air interference causes the horizon to eventually turn into a blue-white sky. (You could also see farther than on Earth with a telescope, but not a ton farther)
Other than that, gravity would be the same. You could tunnel through the world and to the other side, but this would require a lot of work, and might let some air escape (so likely there are outsiders/gods willing to patch up these holes). There might be gravity on the outer side of the world, but it would be extremely light, and the temperature would be extremely cold.
Mountains would have "footprints"; a tall mountain might have caverns beneath it 5 miles deep, which would allow substitute "Underdarks" to occur beneath mountain ranges, though Drow living on the far side of the ring could also be an option.
To the North and South, the ring would end (it would still be as wide in that direction as our world), with great barrier mountains, covered in snow and with very low atmosphere, holding in the air.
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Rules Regarding Effects of the Freedom Zap:
1: To make their monster templates compatible with non-evil alignments, undead clerics of Zodaxus are capable of channeling negative energy, (perhaps not from the Negative Energy Plane, but from a pocket of stuff Zo has which serves a similar function, a kind of Tofu to Negative Energy's chicken nuggets). Indeed, such clerics cannot channel positive energy at all.
This means it is theoretically possible for Zodaxus' clerics to use many evil-aligned spells, including Animate Dead and Create Undead. However, due to the nature of undeath in the Pathfinder universe, it takes momentously extreme circumstances to morally justify their creation.
Undead created by freedom zapped creatures are not themselves effected by freedom zap. A vampire turned by a freedom zapped vampire, for instance, is necessarily evil unless it is itself freedom zapped as it is turned.
None of this has any bearing on other clerics of Zodaxus. Those still have to channel positive energy.
2: There is no 2.
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Or, say, Ringworld. o.o
I'm actually liking that idea more and more. It would make the "main" planet physically much larger, with vast unexplored frontiers, and give it a sort of special value above all other worlds.
Plus, ringworlds can be constructed around a star of any size (the goldilocks zone scales); and often out of the planets in a single solar system.
The big difference of a Ringworld is that "dawn" and "dusk" no longer exist. Objects orbiting the sun eclipse it on a regular day-night cycle as the ring rotates, so there is only "day" and "night." Also, the horizon curves up instead of down, meaning you could theoretically see forever, though some combination of fog and air interference causes the horizon to eventually turn into a blue-white sky. (You could also see farther than on Earth with a telescope, but not a ton farther)
Other than that, gravity would be the same. You could tunnel through the world and to the other side, but this would require a lot of work, and might let some air escape (so likely there are outsiders/gods willing to patch up these holes). There might be gravity on the outer side of the world, but it would be extremely light, and the temperature would be extremely cold.
Mountains would have "footprints"; a tall mountain might have caverns beneath it 5 miles deep, which would allow substitute "Underdarks" to occur beneath mountain ranges, though Drow living on the far side of the ring could also be an option.
To the North and South, the ring would end (it would still be as wide in that direction as our world), with great barrier mountains, covered in snow and with very low atmosphere, holding in the air.
That sounds good. Is anyone objecting to this?
I like the idea of Zodaxus' Empire sending colonists to such a world.
My brain is still stuck on Halo, though. I cannot picture a ringworld that isn't a technological construct, or that doesn't house some horrific threat to life in the galaxy. Then again, this is Pathfinder, so it may well.
Well, it would need some kind of defense or repair robots/turrets on the outside, so that's either technology or magic right there.
If people are cool with this, we could make another tab on the spreadsheet that breaks the universe down into world>continent>civilization/empire>province>city, and start adding places of interest.
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Well, it would need some kind of defense or repair robots/turrets on the outside, so that's either technology or magic right there.
If people are cool with this, we could make another tab on the spreadsheet that breaks the universe down into world>continent>civilization/empire>province>city, and start adding places of interest.
I'm cool with it.
On an unrelated note, Asmodeus, Loviatar, and Bane are still up for grabs.
Sorry, I've gotten swamped with some RL stuff. So my input may have to wait
Or, say, Ringworld. o.o
I'm actually liking that idea more and more. It would make the "main" planet physically much larger, with vast unexplored frontiers, and give it a sort of special value above all other worlds.
Plus, ringworlds can be constructed around a star of any size (the goldilocks zone scales); and often out of the planets in a single solar system.
The big difference of a Ringworld is that "dawn" and "dusk" no longer exist. Objects orbiting the sun eclipse it on a regular day-night cycle as the ring rotates, so there is only "day" and "night." Also, the horizon curves up instead of down, meaning you could theoretically see forever, though some combination of fog and air interference causes the horizon to eventually turn into a blue-white sky. (You could also see farther than on Earth with a telescope, but not a ton farther)
Other than that, gravity would be the same. You could tunnel through the world and to the other side, but this would require a lot of work, and might let some air escape (so likely there are outsiders/gods willing to patch up these holes). There might be gravity on the outer side of the world, but it would be extremely light, and the temperature would be extremely cold.
Mountains would have "footprints"; a tall mountain might have caverns beneath it 5 miles deep, which would allow substitute "Underdarks" to occur beneath mountain ranges, though Drow living on the far side of the ring could also be an option.
To the North and South, the ring would end (it would still be as wide in that direction as our world), with great barrier mountains, covered in snow and with very low atmosphere, holding in the air.
That sounds good. Is anyone objecting to this?
I like the idea of Zodaxus' Empire sending colonists to such a world.
My brain is still stuck on Halo, though. I cannot picture a ringworld that isn't a technological construct, or that doesn't house some horrific threat to life in the galaxy. Then again, this...
Ringworlds and dyson spheres have a number of problems namely a lack of an electromagnetosphere, meaning radiation is intense. The rotation wouldn't be able to exert a force on the air and keep it tethered to the ground, since the air would have to be rotating too and there is no way to really to get the air rotating with the ring. In fact the speed required to keep the air down would tear apart any substance humanity can currently thing of.
to be clear i don't think what the universe is, or what is in it, matters all that much.
In that case, I think our universe constitutes the insides of an unfathomably enormous pumpkin!
I was going to say something else but your explanation sounds better.
@Everyone: If you've adopted an NPC god, feel free to edit their entry a bit on the spreadsheet, especially in areas where they're lacking (for instance, I made Helm not a Druid god, because he has no interest whatsoever in nature)
* * *
Ringworlds and dyson spheres have a number of problems namely a lack of an electromagnetosphere, meaning radiation is intense.
Not a problem! Assuming the ring contains a suitably thick iron core, you could establish a weak magnetosphere; if you set the thing orbiting a weak star (or even a white dwarf) at a closer distance befitting the new Goldilocks zone, you get a significantly-reduced plasma impact which a weaker magnetosphere might be able to deal with.
Alternatively, the orbital “inner ring” that causes the day/night cycle could shunt radiation away from the primary ring pretty easily. (And it would otherwise function like a weird moon, giving Shar interest and power here, while the technological nature of the world would appeal to Atheos’s Sun theme as much as Lathander's)
The rotation wouldn't be able to exert a force on the air and keep it tethered to the ground, since the air would have to be rotating too and there is no way to really to get the air rotating with the ring. In fact the speed required to keep the air down would tear apart any substance humanity can currently thing of.
This is tricky, but not so much as you think. Shell theory suggests that on the far side of the ring, a gravitational force would pull air down. It wouldn’t be nearly as strong as “gravity” pulling outwards if we assume a solely-centripetal gravity generation; with some sort of magical or generated-field gravity, this wouldn’t be as much of an issue.
Alternately, magic. There’s lots of it, and a constant weak force effect—or just strengthened/levitated glass, or something similar—would keep the air in. (A laminar-rotating atmosphere would also cause fictitious “gravity” to decrease at altitude, so that flying high enough would allow you to “orbit,” as on earth, making flight interesting for anyone who wants to tinker with it).
A Dyson sphere solves air completely (as does a Dyson cylinder), but needs an inner-sphere or magical radiation sponge.
But I just think of the Ringworld idea as “cool”—essentially, it behaves mostly like a real/regular planet, but is large enough to support an endless age of exploration (the tech level of Golarion/Faerun), with travel distances meaning tech is much lower the farther you get from nation centers, allowing proto-industrial tech a la Eberron/Nex/Lantan to exist in the same world as the hunter-gatherer tribal societies and nomads of Cil’dr and Osoro. Also, there’s more than one moon, and they’re way bigger than earth, giving a cool and unique moon/sun duality lacking in real planets.
I'm not sure about having scifi stuff. Now steampunk I'm okay with that.
Or even magitech! Now that would be great!
Another thing I've been curious about since we began is what are the planes like?
I prefer the D&D wheel system from 3.5. Makes things easier in my opinion. Also I think the elemental planes should touch one another since the ice elemental prince of evil is involved with the new temple of elemental evil.
Hmm...are y'all okay with the idea of the netherworld? A plane where fiends who committed acts so vile and evil that appalled their fellow fiends were imprisoned with the aid of celestials, elementals and other planar beings. But these netherworld fiends are able to influence the mortal plane through the fruits of the netherworld. These fruits when eaten can do one of two things: the first is summon fiends from other planes at the expense of the one who ate the fruit (fiends who are summoned this way and are later killed are banished to the netherworld as their very essence has been tainted and fouled with the netherworld). The other and usually if the eater has strong desires, will grant the person almost godlike powers. However if a person who gains powers via a netherworld fruit does their soul is destroyed and cast into the good between dimensions and planes to be tormented for all eternity. Only a god can bring back such a soul and even then it is a difficult take to be performed.
The netherworld is separated from the great wheel as it was feared that the netherworld fiends' aura may seep out and taint the other planes. And for good reason: for while the netherworld has features similar to all of the planes and even the material plane, the very land, from the trees to the flowers to the rocks to the clouds to the lava to the oceans to his mountains imprison the fiends. One can even see the tortured faces of the fiends imprisoned in this prison plane.
What do y'all think?
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I'm not sure about having scifi stuff. Now steampunk I'm okay with that.
Or even magitech! Now that would be great!
Another thing I've been curious about since we began is what are the planes like?
I prefer the D&D wheel system from 3.5. Makes things easier in my opinion. Also I think the elemental planes should touch one another since the ice elemental prince of evil is involved with the new temple of elemental evil.
Hmm...are y'all okay with the idea of the netherworld? A plane where fiends who committed acts so vile and evil that appalled their fellow fiends were imprisoned with the aid of celestials, elementals and other planar beings. But these netherworld fiends are able to influence the mortal plane through the fruits of the netherworld. These fruits when eaten can do one of two things: the first is summon fiends from other planes at the expense of the one who ate the fruit (fiends who are summoned this way and are later killed are banished to the netherworld as their very essence has been tainted and fouled with the netherworld). The other and usually if the eater has strong desires, will grant the person almost godlike powers. However if a person who gains powers via a netherworld fruit does their soul is destroyed and cast into the good between dimensions and planes to be tormented for all eternity. Only a god can bring back such a soul and even then it is a difficult take to be performed.
The netherworld is separated from the great wheel as it was feared that the netherworld fiends' aura may seep out and taint the other planes. And for good reason: for while the netherworld has features similar to all of the planes and even the material plane, the very land, from the trees to the flowers to the rocks to the clouds to the lava to the oceans to his mountains imprison the fiends. One can even see the tortured faces of the fiends imprisoned in this prison plane.
What do y'all think?
Regarding Sci-Fi, cat's already out of the bag. My backstory explicitly references spacefaring technology, even specifically contrasting it with mere magitech.
Regarding the netherworld, it's a cool idea but:
1: Nothing is 'difficult' for gods. They can do anything they want trivially unless another god tries to stop them. It might be painful or tend to corrupt them, though.
2: Fiends would not imprison other fiends for being too evil. They would imprison them for disobedience, failure, or disloyalty, but fiends are evil. All of them. All the time. Always. The reason the freedom zap is even a coherent idea is because fiends are personifications of their form of evil. It takes a high-level spell to make it even possible that they could be something else.
Given that fiends are so evil, no amount of vileness would make a demon go "holy s$&! man tone it down." A prison for fiends co-owned by celestials and fiends would therefore be a prison for ones who angered the other members of their realm through defiance or incompetence, as fiends simply have no moral boundary they do not want crossed, except maybe for contract-breaking devils.
Yeah, the Netherworld idea seems to make people like Cyric and Asmodeus and their armies of twisted monstrosities downright chummy; it seems to unbalance the alignment system and appears not really necessary.
If you're interested in that "netherworld fruits" thing for personal plot, it seems more like one of Asmodeus's creations; a "tree of knowledge" sort of deal that gives you knowledge and power at the expense of your soul (likely something pretty damn rare, though, so it doesn't totally mess up warfare and whatnot).
Alternately, if we go with "two LE planes," we could make one of them a prison plane for the fiends Asmodeus doesn't like but doesn't want to kill.
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Additional Freedom Zap-Related Rules:
Zodaxus commands a pool of Pseudo-Negative energy. This substance functions like negative energy and a person's skill in the use of negative energy is applicable to it, but a knowledgeable spellcaster can distinguish its aura from that of true negative energy.
Spells used by channeling this energy, which carry the "Evil" descriptor when used with normal negative energy, now instead carry the "Chaotic" descriptor. This pool is accessible only to undead followers of Zodaxus, or followers of Zodaxus with the "Negative Energy Affinity" racial trait. They do not need to be clerics. Arcane spells related to the undead also make use of the negative energy plane and therefore can be imitated by Pseudo-Negative energy.
Using a spell given the chaotic descriptor by this effect is an evil act only when it is not necessary to accomplish some higher moral end. In other words, Zodaxian clerics may not go around animating corpses willy-nilly.
Even when use of spells like "Create Undead" is justified in the abstract, there are often limitations in the specific way it may be used. It is essentially never possible for a Zodaxian cleric to create a devourer, for instance.
Ringworld & Such:
Definitely like this idea for a central world, but my sci-fi physics knowledge clearly isn't as extensive, and I don't think a lot of those sort of details are particularly important anyway, so magic, as far as I'm concerned, is a perfectly good answer to all of the 'How's.
Although not necessary for her own goals, if everyone is going for it I suppose Ishalla could have her wild tropical jungle planet, which would essentially serve the same purpose as her planar domain - basically being just a vacation home.
Netherworld: Generally agree with Zodaxus and Atheos. With a compromise!
Sounds very similar in function, although expanded, to the Elder Evils that previous ruled the multiverse. Perhaps those fiends could be ones that were corrupted by the few remaining Elder Evils (and would also include corrupted celestials & powerful mortals). That would also explain why the other "less evil" fiends would work with good beings to fight them. Otherwise I have a hard time agreeing with that last point, seeing how typical fiendish behavior is pretty bad, and lesser fiends tend to just bow to those who are stronger/more evil (which I think of as synonyms for such creatures essentially made of evil). Also, similarly, I think it would still be best if only the most powerful, uncorrupted fiends took it upon themselves (with whatever followers) to work with any celestials to fight the corrupted beings.
This would give us a current-plot tie-in for the Elder Evils, and allow for Adriel's Netherworld. Likely it would be less a prison realm, and more just the only known domain of any Elder Evils (not many, and their exact whereabouts on the plane being unclear).
Essentially, the gods would prohibit anything from leaving or entering the Netherworld, but there could be some plot elements that allow the Netherworld Fruits through to other planes. The gods themselves could destroy the Netherworld, but would face the same issue as fighting the Elder Evils themselves, making isolation the easier option (nobody wants to end up like Asmodeus). The corrupted fiends and such would also taint anything they encounter, but to a much lesser extent, making it possible for beings other than gods to fight them.
@Zodaxus: You should put all the freedom zap rules in a tab in your profile.
@Ishalla: I'm creating a document with all the worlds on it. I do agree with the "big world/ringworld created by magic as a celestial macguffin large enough to hold everyone" seems like a better spin—but Ishalla probably controls a *lot* of uninhabited lands, so the more interesting ones might be where her humanoid worshippers live.
I'm personally figuring the home of the elder evils is worth ignoring until we find out if the original GM had plans for them. Also, Atheos definitely considers Lolth and Loviatar and possibly Babaki to be "Elder Evils."
I'm also strongly opposed to calling any such plane the "Netherworld"—that's a name that implies death, not evil, and we've already got plenty of lands for the dead. Maybe something like "The Outer Void," signifying things pushed to the edge of the planes instead of buried beneath them.
I like the idea for a prison for the elder evils.
When I originally thought up fiends that were so evil other fiends were appalled by them these netherworld fiends in addition to other crimes and sins attempted to mess with time and space and reality. Such things as we all know shouldn't be messed with. And the fiends knew this two and also knew the consequences of tampering with things you shouldn't fool around with. But we could make these fiends having been corrupted by the elder evils who commit evil just because they are evil. And the only evil they truly hope to achieve is the total annihilation of all existence. And we know that's just wrong.
By elder evil lets say that an elder evil is a being that existed before even the gods and are actually primordial entities like galactus from marvel comics. Or they're beings who existed before time itself or were created at the birth of creation as in the Big Bang or cosmic egg hatching.
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@Atheos: Probably will do, along with:
Additional Zodaxian Spells:
Create Philosophical Zombie: This spell conjures a perfect simulacrum of a sentient being, which only magical examination can reveal to be anything but a normal humanoid. In fact, it is merely a machine without genuine consciousness. It reacts to sensory input without experiencing any qualia, and therefore does not genuinely feel, think or believe.
Because such beings are not actually conscious minds and cannot want, think, feel or suffer, they lack moral patiency, and can be used by freedom-zapped demons and devils for recreational "torture."
Philosophical Zombies will not placate any creature desirous of a human sacrifice unless it wants such a thing only for food. They have no souls of any kind. They are treated as inanimate objects for the purposes of all spells. Mind-effecting magics have no effect on them. They may not be effected by "Animate Dead," nor "Create Undead." They are not constructs, as their animating force is purely biological and has no magical component. Magic is only required at their creation because all other methods of generating a biologically complete human body result in the spontaneous generation of a soul. Philosophical Zombies can be "taught" to perform physical tasks, and may even have class levels, but only in non-spellcasting classes.
Despite the word "Zombie" in their name, they are not undead, and are in no way related to undeath. You might want to look at this to grasp the concept better if you are confused or horrified.
Create Philosophical Zombie is a high level spell with a high material component cost. As a result, it is nowhere near practical to give every freedom-zapped fiend in Zodaxus' service one to play with.
Atheos: Good point. Given the breadth of her concerns and our extensive main world, Ishalla likely won't have any other planets directly under her control. Instead, she simply focuses on the natural regions on any planet she can influence (mostly just the main world). Those planets she can't influence directly she tries to reach through her mortal servants - this is just if anyone wants an antagonistic element of wild nature on one of their planets.
I think leaving Yuugasa's plot elements alone is a good rule of thumb, but I'm willing to make exceptions if someone has specific uses for those elements in their own plots (i.e. Adriel's independent prison realm), provided we don't fundamentally alter any of the original concepts.
For example: We can posit a new realm & lump some of the remaining Elder Evils into that region, thereby creating a tainted "prison" plane, complete with corrupted denizens. To avoid any future plot snafus, we can leave the Elder Evils themselves alone, & interact only with their tainting influence as it appears through the "fruits" and corrupted outsiders (which seems to be Adriel's main goal here).
Any goals Yuugasa has for the Elder Evils can still play out the same, but we can use them ourselves as a plot device (since Adriel wants his ultimate evil to fight).
Adriel: Elder Evils are pretty well defined, and more or less match what you're saying (any further defining is unnecessary, as I agree with Atheos about leaving them alone). Atheos just has weird ways of looking at the world. Essentially he's saying he believes Lolth, Loviatar, & Babaki would fit that definition.
Note - I updated much of Ishalla's info on the deity spreadsheet.
P-zombies. Why'd it have to be p-zombies?
(I would point out, however, that a behavioral p-zombie is a biological impossibility without magic)
I think *most* of the elder evils are pretty much gone, though. And yeah, I'm saying if there is a prison plane, Atheos believes Lolth belongs there, and would refuse to call her a god in conversation (as he does anyone), but specifically using the term "elder evil" to describe her.
Ah okay.
And I wasn't wanting an ultimate evil to fight! I was just suggesting some stuff...
Which I might add was influenced by the Ogre Battle series.
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Okay, since god-adoption seems to be dying down, does anyone object to me formally taking control of Bane, Asmodeus and Loviatar? I wish to do so primarily so I can use them as antagonists for the overarching plot I'll start. I've wracked my brain trying to think of a way to meaningfully challenge gods, and I've not thought of anything but other gods.
The only alternative is to add minor gods, who would be the same as major gods but would receive a -5 penalty to their will competition rolls. This would contradict the original GM's explicit statements about how this universe is supposed to work. I suppose I could fail to call them "gods," but they'd still break the rule that the gods can be challenged only by each other.
That seems fine, although Cyric and Shar could be excellent villains too—but Bane and Loviatar would be far more likely to ally with Asmodeus.
Let the back stabbing begin!
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Regarding the Ringworld, did the people asking questions have formal objections to the concept?
I don't want to be tyranical, but if it takes us more than a few days to settle any given issue about our main world, given how many there will be, we're not going to have it ready very quickly.
Maybe we can seek to make all of those decisions at once to speed things up?
Here is a list of things we need to know about the world:
What is its physical shape?
What is its surface area?
How much of its surface area is covered by oceans?
Why is it interesting to all 20 deities, and to space-faring civilizations?
How many major continents are on it?
What is the climate like on each of these continents?
What is the cultural like on each of these continents? (I heavily dislike the idea of straight analogs for the continents of Earth. Not only is it reductive and racist, but it represents a mind-blowing coincidence. We should at least mix and match cultural elements to make sure there are no 1 to 1 matches.)
What is the population of the world?
What is the population of each continent?
For the record, all of that is why I originally posited the smallest possible world. It would be easiest only have one continent, so that we only have to answer each of those questions once.
Now, for my input on these questions, I propose that the world in question be a rich source of some resource that's very valuable to interstellar civilizations. Perhaps whatever MacGuffin crystal allows for space flight is abundant on it? Alternately, perhaps it is near a recently opened naturally transversable wormhole? That would allow a planet to have been insignificant before, but now suddenly of great strategic importance.
In addition, I advocate the planet, or perhaps Ringworld or Dyson Sphere, I am ambivalent to its shape, have an amount of land surface roughly equal to that of the continental United States. I know that is very very small, but there's little point in having even that much space. Most of the action is likely to take place in an area far smaller than that, perhaps about 5 different cities total. There's no point in having vast open spaces that we're never going to use.
No matter how big our land surface ends up being, it should definitely be connected into a single continent or supercontinent. Oceans between different locations would only serve to inconvenience us by making travel between those areas more difficult or impossible.
Regarding culture, I think our best strategy is to have 2 extreme cultures inhabiting other end of our land area, with a gradation in between. That gives us the most cultural diversity with the least work.
Alright, everyone, I have a [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1thvZFuieGMUVRpGmddymCBIOkfkBcwJgfy-xsv8fqK8/edit?usp=sharing]World Document![/url] Right now, I've the two (very different) countries in which I expect Atheos to hold the most sway, put them on continents currently lacking in other countries, and put a big whopping barbarian continent in between (and filled it with regions where Atheos clearly has NO influence whatsoever).
If you don't like something you see, change it! Feel free to add your own nations, worlds, cities, or continents.
@Vortae: I noticed your followers include Aeons and Proteans. In the Pathfinder planescape, at least, Aeons and Proteans are generally sworn enemies, with Aeons devoted to upholding reality exactly how it is now and Proteans constantly trying to change any part of it they can. (Does Vortae enjoy dichotomies? Are they behaving differently here? Or does he lead a powerful faction of Aeons that, unlike those serving Atheos and Mystra, doesn't want to keep reality intact and instead help bring about a different reality?)
@Questions raised by Zodaxus:
-I still support "magical ringworld"
-As for size: approximately the same height as Earth north-south (with the equator being more tropical/arid, and the edges being more icy/mountainous, because rule of cool), but about 50 times the circumference. This gives deities a stake on it for one unique reason: it has the capacity to support as much life as any 50 other planets. (that's a lot of followers/land you can mold to your vision!). I'm fine with it also being rich in resources.
-I really like the "large planet" idea because it lets us have a constant frontier. I'm fine with action taking place mostly in a few cities, but I'd personally prefer to have the big open spaces out there, as kind of an unknown lurking n the darkness. But the continents I've come up with so far can be flexible in scale.
Oceans between different locations would only serve to inconvenience us by making travel between those areas more difficult or impossible.
I actually see this as the biggest benefit of a large world. As soon as you get teleportation/wind spells/steam ships, boom, world is over, you've just got one boring global society. And the economics of that REALLY don't support the kind of medieval fantasy some players are likely interested in (and CERTAINLY with a small world you lose out on enough biodiversity to satisfy Ishalla).
The point (as I originally hoped, at least) of a big world is that we can do both: have one central group of interconnected continents (which I proposed so far), but also add some other continents far enough away that technology can't easily reach them (or if it does, they can't import the iron they need to adopt that tech, etc.) Big world also lets us build our kitchen sink, as there's enough room for everything while lack of travel/discovery keeps people from griefing each other's countries prematurely.
-The number of continents isn't strictly known. Because of the size of the world, only a small number of continents are in regular contact; the rest of the world is presumed by mapmakers to be water and uninhabited islands (it may or may not be, but this lets new continents be introduced as the story progresses and the world's explorers build faster ships)
-"2 extreme cultures with a gradation" is far, far too simple to be interesting, IMO, when there's 20 different gods out there. Right now I've gone with "Mediterranean continent, Central Asian/Aztec continent, South Asian continent," and figure we can create an additional continent for each major type of culture we'd like to see in the world.
I would like to add a medieval continent similar to most fantasy games along with another continent that is undergoing a hundred year war similar to our own but with a technology that is a combination of medieval fantasy forgotten realms and magitech anime with knights piloting mechs and battling cyborg dragons!
And for good measure a world that is having a Cold War between a steampunk republic and magitech feudal empire and a cyberpunk city state alliance!
Link fixed!
Your logic makes sense too, though, in having a "central core" of continents/countries. I just feel like it could be a really satisfying plot if, for instance, Bane finds a huge uninhabited island on the far side of the world, seeds it with orcs, and over the next hundred years builds up a massive army and fleet that sets sail on a ten-year journey to pillage the entire civilized world.
...that sort of thing.
Also, @Adriel: I came up with a potential geographical location for the current Temple of Elemental Evil
Oh?
Yeah, the document is fixed; I created Outer Andar as a general terrible evil jungle large enough that crusaders actually surviving to reach the Temple becomes a logistical battle.
I would like to add a medieval continent similar to most fantasy games along with another continent that is undergoing a hundred year war similar to our own but with a technology that is a combination of medieval fantasy forgotten realms and magitech anime with knights piloting mechs and battling cyborg dragons!
And for good measure a world that is having a Cold War between a steampunk republic and magitech feudal empire and a cyberpunk city state alliance!
Got you covered on the first front: Haftena, built from the remains of a crumbling Roman/Taldor-ish empire, should be a continent of mostly gothic medieval kingdoms plagued by necromancers and whatnot. I just didn't name any of these medieval kingdoms yet (other than the terrible island country Atheos comes from).
You don't need a ton of tech to pull off magitech mechs, if your magic is decent, so that's not a bad idea, though one steampunk country and one magitech country might be enough for all those plots. I pictured Geosan as pre-industrial, but it could probably lean slightly steampunk, or we could create new countries (for instance, a magitech switzerland-type nation that's too paranoid of outsiders to let its armies or tech leave home)
One thing that bothers me is what the original gm is going to say when he reads all this?
Probably wonders if we are actually the paizo staff in disguise. :3
And excellent ideas Atheos.
Heh. Also, The Temple of Elemental Evil lurking behind a veil of cannibal elf jungle pirates is now a threat to safe shipping, making it something that Atheos and Helm will probably care about a bit more.
The only problem is that the temple of elemental evil according to my research actually sets up base near trade routes to attack traders and caravans as well as setting up a base in forgotten ruins. and they aren't above to building bases right underneath a town or city!