The Arena (Inactive)

Game Master chaiboy

Here is my newest version of Meredith, for consideration in the arena. She is completely RAW legal and, as far as I know, abides by the terms set forth on the Arena web site.

I have included a table which shows how I dispersed my starting funds and tracks my weight. I was able to meet the DC for every crafted item by taking 10. The rest were bought at full market value.

Sorry about my reaction earlier. I didn't know what was going on with the threads and I genuinely thought you guys opted to leave me behind, despite my being one of the original entrants.

@Sir_Oktain: I have an alignment up don't I? I am on a phone and can't access my own Profiles...

Yes you do!

chaiboy wrote:

Theres a lot of sheets to get through. If you can show the prices and info from the book then i'll allow crafting.

From what I understand, crafting feats with WBL means that, if you have the feat required for the item, it then only counts for half as much against your total WBL, regardless of how you got it. So, kind of weirdly, if there's a party of people, and someone makes Belts of whatever for everyone, it counts as half for the person who has the feat, but still counts as full price for the others. So, outside of an actual campaign where you'd be managing your money, that's theoretically how it is supposed to work.

Like I said, kind of odd, but that is the case from what I understand. Link for the FAQ on it, if you'd like to take a look at the ruling.

Varrel Thrunebane wrote:

Actually this is leading me to believe Craft Wondrous Item could be better in my build than Power Attack..

Heh, quite possible. I've actually considered dropping Power Attack for a couple things already, since I'm planning to use archery more. The melee weapon is mostly for backup. Discounted items might be much more useful.

I see the

CRAFTING ITEMS It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. If you do not have the spells needed to craft an item then you must include the price of buying the scroll with the appropriate spell on it. (ability to cast scrolls still apply as normal.)

Sorry about that. Was so busy on everything else I forgot to add in his alignment. Let me know if anything else is off please.

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

BUUUMP!

And one more: Are we playing with age rules, which are listed as "optional" and thus under the discretion of the GM. I feel that this would make spellcasters way more powerful, especially in regard to spell DCs, as mental abi scores would increase. I already think that given our synth summoner, and the allowing of save-or-lose spells, this could really tip the balance of the game by allowing more min/maxing for spellcasters.

Here is my newest version of Meredith, for consideration in the arena. She is completely RAW legal and, as far as I know, abides by the terms set forth on the Arena web site.

I have included a table which shows how I dispersed my starting funds and tracks my weight. I was able to meet the DC for every crafted item by taking 10. The rest were bought at full market value.

Sorry about my reaction earlier. I didn't know what was going on with the threads and I genuinely thought you guys opted to leave me behind, despite my being one of the original entrants.

Not at all . you posted your character, i responded then you disappeared. you must have found that old thread and never got back to the post you put here.

In any case he looks good.

For every spell requirement (or any other requirement for that matter) that you don't meet during item creation, you simply add +5 to the crafting DC.

For example, my belt of incredible dexterity has a caster level of 8. That sets the base DC to 13. However, as a sorcerer with limited spells known, I cannot cast cat's grace. Therefore, the DC goes up to 18. My character has a +14 modifier to Spellcraft. By taking 10, for a total of 24, I can successfully craft said belt in anything short of extenuating circumstances.

Hope that helps everyone's understanding of the rules as written.

Question for Chaiboy: Did you not know about this rule prior to ruling that you had to have a scroll of the spell, or did you choose to house rule it regardless?

OK so full armour only.

@Sir_Oktain: thank you I couldn't remember if I entered that in or not. Heck, I don't remember what I put down...

Okay, here is the current list with links!

1. Karmachine I don't see a character

2. Meredith A Merfolk Sorcerer (Ravingdork)

3. Hanzou Aasimar Bard (Joshua Hirtz )

4. Sir Oktain Half-Orc Knight (Dutys_Fist)

5. Goblin Gus Goblin Rifleman (Nu'Raahl)

6. Marcus Ironskin a Summoner (Ashe)

7. Gorik Uruai a Half Orc Oracle (Darkwolf117)

8. Viemos Kendahan a Human Monk (mathpro18)

9. Brice Venton an Aasimar Barbarian (Please Don't Kill Me)

10. Urdavan Stonefist Stone Monk (Bobson)

11. Azaelas Fayth Ezra Fighter ( JTM93)

12. High Elf (CP)*

13. Varrel Thrunebane Elf Magus (STR Ranger)

14. Nicos Human Armor Master (Nicos)

*Not sure where your character build is so I just linked it to the Alias.

Ashe: How are your fused saves so high? They look way off to me. You do know that being fused typically does nothing for your saves except for where your new physical ability score modifiers change them, right?

Or am I missing something else?

That FAQ specifically mentions counting crafted items at cost not price, not all items.

Yeah, that's what I meant. So if you have Craft Wondrous items, most of your wondrous items could be counted at cost, if you could appropriately make them.

So, we are allowing crafted items now? Well, this means I'm gonna need to change some things.

For every spell requirement (or any other requirement for that matter) that you don't meet during item creation, you simply add +5 to the crafting DC.

For example, my belt of incredible dexterity has a caster level of 8. That sets the base DC to 13. However, as a sorcerer with limited spells known, I cannot cast cat's grace. Therefore, the DC goes up to 18. My character has a +14 modifier to Spellcraft. By taking 10, for a total of 24, I can successfully craft said belt in anything short of extenuating circumstances.

Hope that helps everyone's understanding of the rules as written.

Question for Chaiboy: Did you not know about this rule prior to ruling that you had to have a scroll of the spell, or did you choose to house rule it regardless?

damn i forgot about that. i'll change the rules to show that on site. Thanks.

Here is my newest version of Meredith, for consideration in the arena. She is completely RAW legal and, as far as I know, abides by the terms set forth on the Arena web site.

I have included a table which shows how I dispersed my starting funds and tracks my weight. I was able to meet the DC for every crafted item by taking 10. The rest were bought at full market value.

Sorry about my reaction earlier. I didn't know what was going on with the threads and I genuinely thought you guys opted to leave me behind, despite my being one of the original entrants.

To start off with, I think you underpriced the cauldron of flying, which is 20000 crafted, plus you don't have overland flight, so you can't craft it, doubling the cost.

To continue, you don't have eagle's splendor's so you can't craft that.
Similarly, you don't have the resistance spell, so you can't craft cloak of resistance. Same goes with belt of dex. No barkskin spell, so no belt of natural armor.

Okay how does this sound:

CRAFTING ITEMS It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. The base DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. For every spell requirement (or any other requirement for that matter) that you don't meet during item creation, you simply add +5 to the crafting DC. When using the skill needed to build these items you can "take 10" if your skill +10 passes DC needed to craft the item you can craft the item and use it in the competition.

I think Hedge Magician is the reduced cost. Though I think you are right on the DC.

@ Ravingdork: Just of note, feats from the Bestiary are also not allowed as far as I know. Improved Natural Armor comes from there, yes?

@ chaiboy: Unless the ruling on that might be changed too? I don't see it setting things off balance really, but it's your call. If we're allowed to though, I'll definitely be picking up Flyby Attack.

Also, the crafting looks good to me.

I really don't like the current crafting rules. I think price is the best. This isn't the who's-the-most-amazing-craftsman contest. It's the Arena BATTLE contest. It's about wits, about strength, about guile.

Furthermore, it grossly disadvantages melee characters. Spellcasters, who, might I add, are still going to get dom. person and all those others killers, will greatly benefit. The spellcaster class has always been the class taht deals "spike" damage. In the arena, this is one of their strengths. Take a look at the current submission. 5 uses of dom person is pretty awesome. But, I agree that it isn't game breaking.

But, when we allow casters to make the combat inherrently unfair by crafting, getting virtually double the items, it becomes really unfair. I think that if any character could give up feats to craft, it would be great. But ultimately, that's not the case. And though it looks like spellcasters are weak compared to melee, 1) summoners. 2) summon monster. I'm not suggesting that these two make summoners superior to melee or ranged characters, but they can also cast spells. I really don't think that it's necessary to give them double equipment.

Changing crafting also isn't character-breaking. Originally, I overspent on magic items for my characters, then realized that I needed a few situational things, which I could no longer afford. So, I turned my str. +6 belt to a str +2 belt. Did it make my build worse? Hell yes! But ultimately, it was the same build, with the same idea and workings, with a little less stats. But I'm concerned (esp. with the "hedge magician" trait) that giving magicians the ability to craft at 1/2 price at the cost of one feat is breaking. It's double the items! If we look at most of the character's today, we'll see that a large portion of their stats are based on magic items.

Please change crafting.

If the Caster wants to get Crafting Feats instead of other Feats I say let them have them.

To start off with, I think you underpriced the cauldron of flying, which is 20000 crafted, plus you don't have overland flight, so you can't craft it, doubling the cost.

To continue, you don't have eagle's splendor's so you can't craft that.
Similarly, you don't have the resistance spell, so you can't craft cloak of resistance. Same goes with belt of dex. No barkskin spell, so no belt of natural armor.

I meet all of the increased crafting DCs for not having those spells. There was only one item that I could not reliably make the DC by taking 10, and it has been removed.

Nothing is under priced. I get a discount of crafting thanks to one of my traits.

Sir Oktain wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Here is my newest version of Meredith, for consideration in the arena. She is completely RAW legal and, as far as I know, abides by the terms set forth on the Arena web site.

I have included a table which shows how I dispersed my starting funds and tracks my weight. I was able to meet the DC for every crafted item by taking 10. The rest were bought at full market value.

Sorry about my reaction earlier. I didn't know what was going on with the threads and I genuinely thought you guys opted to leave me behind, despite my being one of the original entrants.

To start off with, I think you underpriced the cauldron of flying, which is 20000 crafted, plus you don't have overland flight, so you can't craft it, doubling the cost.

To continue, you don't have eagle's splendor's so you can't craft that.
Similarly, you don't have the resistance spell, so you can't craft cloak of resistance. Same goes with belt of dex. No barkskin spell, so no belt of natural armor.

I meet all of the increased crafting DCs for not having those spells. There was only one item that I could not reliably make the DC by taking 10, and it has been removed.

I believe that the ruling is that you need to possess those spells to craft the items.

@ Ravingdork: Just of note, feats from the Bestiary are also not allowed as far as I know. Improved Natural Armor comes from there, yes?

I've asked Chaiboy about this several times and he's responded with "your character is fine." So as far as I'm concerned, the matter is settled.

This is the one thing I don't like about competitive PbP: Everyone starts asking about every else's characters in hopes of gaining an edge. Furthermore, with everyone's stats readily available to all, later entrants gain a clear advantage since they can build counters into their characters.

I believe that the ruling is that you need to possess those spells to craft the items.

You sir, are behind the times.

Seriously though, this thread is moving FAST!

Nah, you can UMD scrolls.

Chai,

Are you ok with the mounts I have?

RD,

I like your character and am interested in seeing how it plays. Is your Cauldron filled with water? The average weight of a merfolk is 200 lbs, add your gear and you still have enough to carry approx 34.25 gallons of water (if it matters).
I found the aquatic bloodlie, but not seaborn. is that just your alternate name for it? The bloodline arcana for aquatic is:
Whenever you cast a spell of the water type, your effective caster level is increased by one, and summoned creatures with a swim speed or the aquatic or water type gain a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls. Not the +1 CL in water you have listed. However, it maybe something I am not seeing.

Glad to see your back in this.

Sir Oktain wrote:

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

BUUUMP!

And one more: Are we playing with age rules, which are listed as "optional" and thus under the discretion of the GM. I feel that this would make spellcasters way more powerful, especially in regard to spell DCs, as mental abi scores would increase. I already think that given our synth summoner, and the allowing of save-or-lose spells, this could really tip the balance of the game by allowing more min/maxing for spellcasters.

BUUMP once more in order to get answer

I really don't like the current crafting rules. I think price is the best. This isn't the who's-the-most-amazing-craftsman contest. It's the Arena BATTLE contest. It's about wits, about strength, about guile.

Furthermore, it grossly disadvantages melee characters. Spellcasters, who, might I add, are still going to get dom. person and all those others killers, will greatly benefit. The spellcaster class has always been the class taht deals "spike" damage. In the arena, this is one of their strengths. Take a look at the current submission. 5 uses of dom person is pretty awesome. But, I agree that it isn't game breaking.

But, when we allow casters to make the combat inherrently unfair by crafting, getting virtually double the items, it becomes really unfair. I think that if any character could give up feats to craft, it would be great. But ultimately, that's not the case. And though it looks like spellcasters are weak compared to melee, 1) summoners. 2) summon monster. I'm not suggesting that these two make summoners superior to melee or ranged characters, but they can also cast spells. I really don't think that it's necessary to give them double equipment.

Changing crafting also isn't character-breaking. Originally, I overspent on magic items for my characters, then realized that I needed a few situational things, which I could no longer afford. So, I turned my str. +6 belt to a str +2 belt. Did it make my build worse? Hell yes! But ultimately, it was the same build, with the same idea and workings, with a little less stats. But I'm concerned (esp. with the "hedge magician" trait) that giving magicians the ability to craft at 1/2 price at the cost of one feat is breaking. It's double the items! If we look at most of the character's today, we'll see that a large portion of their stats are based on magic items.

Please change crafting.

While I agree with you 100%, I would rather join them and craft then fight them without crafting. And, for the low low price of one feat tax you can grab Master Craftsman and now you can beat stuff to death with your 1/2 price magic items!

Also, mounts can use any magical item that they are capable of wearing. I personally see no problem with your whatever wearing a belt.

I like your character and am interested in seeing how it plays. Is your Cauldron filled with water? The average weight of a merfolk is 200 lbs, add your gear and you still have enough to carry approx 34.25 gallons of water (if it matters).

I found the aquatic bloodlie, but not seaborn. is that just your alternate name for it? The bloodline arcana for aquatic is:
Whenever you cast a spell of the water type, your effective caster level is increased by one, and summoned creatures with a swim speed or the aquatic or water type gain a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls. Not the +1 CL in water you have listed. However, it maybe something I am not seeing.

I am using a Wildblooded bloodline, found here.

My cauldron has enough water for me to benefit from my class abilities. Beyond that, I intend to make more as needed (for example, if it spills).

Glad to see you're back in this.

I'm just left to wonder if those aasimar characters were here before I posted my stats.

While I agree with you 100%, I would rather join them and craft then fight them without crafting. And, for the low low price of one feat tax you can grab Master Craftsman and now you can beat stuff to death with your 1/2 price magic items!

Exactly right. I hate it when people complain about fighters being left behind because spellcasters can craft. That's BS. You have enough feats to be able to craft. The ONLY place it hurts you is skills, which fighters aren't known for anyways.

I figured it was something I wasn't seeing, not that I doubted you. Since I am about the size of a merfolk, I'm going to put 34 gallons of water in my tub and see if I can float in it. Ok, not really.
On a serious note, cool concept.

This is the one thing I don't like about competitive PbP: Everyone starts asking about every else's characters in hopes of gaining an edge.

I can assure you I'm not trying to gain an edge, but I was specifically told that the Bestiary Feats were not being used for this. Hence, why I brought that up.

Furthermore, with everyone's stats readily available to all, later entrants gain a clear advantage since they can build counters into their characters.

I think that's less of a problem with the medium and just players taking unfair advantage of the stats being out in the open. It's a fair concern I guess, but building specifically to be able to counter things is kinda mean. Don't get me wrong, I've built my guy to be adaptable from the beginning, but that's the general idea with him, because this is going to be PvP. You should be able to adapt, or you'll likely lose *shrug*

Now your all making me contemplate going back and picking up Craft Wondrous Item.

Now your all making me contemplate going back and picking up Craft Wondrous Item.

Ha, likewise, but it seems like its still in a bit of dispute. I think I'm gonna hold off until we have full confirmation whether or not it's allowed.

Though I'm a bit sad, because I was gonna bump my Int if so, and I was looking forward to more skill points. I might still do that anyway actually. I don't think I can handle not having Int higher than 10 :/

How is Marcus Ironskin getting a +9, +8, and +11 bonus to his saves just for being fused? Can someone please walk me through it?

Hmm. I am thinking maybe I aught to bring out my old Summoner who has the leadership feat... Speaking of which. That might aught to be disallowed.

Now I am thinking I should have brought out Ezra in her Paladin, Inquisitor, or Magus forms. Or heaven forbid her Summoner Form...

Nothing beats a Summoner making fun of Skelator.

I concur that Leadership should be probably be disallowed on the grounds that (1) followers are not likely to have been sucked into the arena along with the heroes (they have no mythical connection like a familiar or animal companion) and especially since (2) the tournament is about the PCs and their abilities, not the abilities of NPCs.

@ Ravingdork: I noticed that and put a post up about it. I think he added them together, which I don't believe is how that's supposed to go. Haven't heard back about it yet though.

@ Azaelas: If I recall correctly, Leadership has already been mentioned as not being allowed.

@ Ravingdork: I noticed that and put a post up about it. I think he added them together, which I don't believe is how that's supposed to go. Haven't heard back about it yet though.

That's what I thought. His saves should remain exactly the same as his non-fused form, except where his new ability scores change them.

It makes me wonder what other mistakes he may have made. I'd help him with it, but I can't make heads or tails of all that text. Judging from his previous posting habits, we will likely hear from him in the morning.

Sir Oktain wrote:

Sir Oktain wrote:

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

BUUUMP!

And one more: Are we playing with age rules, which are listed as "optional" and thus under the discretion of the GM. I feel that this would make spellcasters way more powerful, especially in regard to spell DCs, as mental abi scores would increase. I already think that given our synth summoner, and the allowing of save-or-lose spells, this could really tip the balance of the game by allowing more min/maxing for spellcasters.

BUUMP once more in order to get answer

sorry this thread is jumping quick. yes it can wear a belt. it may be around his neck like i bridle but it has the same effect.

I concur that Leadership should be probably be disallowed on the grounds that (1) followers are not likely to have been sucked into the arena along with the heroes (they have no mythical connection like a familiar or animal companion) and especially since (2) the tournament is about the PCs and their abilities, not the abilities of NPCs.

no leadership

this is the alias of the armor master

I just noticed that my ranger feats do not work in the heavy armor :(, i have to change the build.

Okay, here is the current list with links!

1. Karmachine I don't see a character

2. Meredith A Merfolk Sorcerer (Ravingdork)

3. Hanzou Aasimar Bard (Joshua Hirtz )

4. Sir Oktain Half-Orc Knight (Dutys_Fist)

5. Goblin Gus Goblin Rifleman (Nu'Raahl)

6. Marcus Ironskin a Summoner (Ashe)

7. Gorik Uruai a Half Orc Oracle (Darkwolf117)

8. Viemos Kendahan a Human Monk (mathpro18)

9. Brice Venton an Aasimar Barbarian (Please Don't Kill Me)

10. Urdavan Stonefist Stone Monk (Bobson)

11. Azaelas Fayth Ezra Fighter ( JTM93)

12. High Elf (CP)*

13. Varrel Thrunebane Elf Magus (STR Ranger)

14. Nicoslaus Silvershield's page Human Armor Master (Nicos)

*Not sure where your character build is so I just linked it to the Alias.

BTW your link will probably be out-of-date soon. If I can ever get my accursed phone to go to my alias!

and thank good Leadership isn't allowed.

Sir Oktain wrote:

Sir Oktain wrote:

Sir Oktain wrote:

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

BUUUMP!

And one more: Are we playing with age rules, which are listed as "optional" and thus under the discretion of the GM. I feel that this would make spellcasters way more powerful, especially in regard to spell DCs, as mental abi scores would increase. I already think that given our synth summoner, and the allowing of save-or-lose spells, this could really tip the balance of the game by allowing more min/maxing for spellcasters.

BUUMP once more in order to get answer

sorry this thread is jumping quick. yes it can wear a belt. it may be around his neck like i bridle but it has the same effect.

Not to start a ziggy, but there are 2 more questions

If the leadership feat were allowed, I'd take a crafter cohort

Sir Oktain wrote:

Sir Oktain wrote:

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

BUUUMP!

And one more: Are we playing with age rules, which are listed as "optional" and thus under the discretion of the GM. I feel that this would make spellcasters way more powerful, especially in regard to spell DCs, as mental abi scores would increase. I already think that given our synth summoner, and the allowing of save-or-lose spells, this could really tip the balance of the game by allowing more min/maxing for spellcasters.

BUUMP once more in order to get answer

We are not using age rules.

I looked up the charge rules. it of course doesn't have anything on interrupted actions. BUT ready action does:

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

So what this means is that if someone is readying a move action and you decide to charge then they use their ready action your action is interrupted. they move then you move to the square you where going to before they moved (usually the last square of your straight line path) So if they keep it up you will always be one step behind them until they decide to do a non ready action. The next question is if they decide to just move 1 square out of reach so you come up short can they use a reach weapon to then hit you. I would think both actions are possible. And if you had a reach weapon then you could still hit them and get all the appropriate bonuses. Another issue. A charge is in a straight line. If someone moves toward you and to the side. Do they then get AOO as you continue your move toward where they were? again it would be legal. Unless someone has some piece of information i missed about interrupted actions continuing as they were planned.

Hope that gives you an answer

yes you can put a belt on a horse. as a bridle around neck. it would function as normal regardless

It makes me wonder what other mistakes he may have made. I'd help him with it, but I can't make heads or tails of all that text. Judging from his previous posting habits, we will likely hear from him in the morning.

I posted a pretty thorough breakdown of his character back on page 3, although he's fixed a lot of it since then. He still has a 26 point buy, according to my math.

As for his saves, he does get +2 to his saves when fused, from the Shielded Meld ability. In addition, I'm pretty sure his listed base saves do not include his cloak of resistance +3.

A Summoner 10 / Monk 1 has base saves of +5 / +5 / +9. With stat mods, magic, and a +1 will trait, that becomes +8 / +6 / +18. When fused, with his new stats that becomes +14 / +13 / +20, and then with the fused bonus, +16 / +15 / +22. Then with a UMDed Bestow Grace, they bump up to +22 / +21 / +28.

So actually his Fused-but-not-buffed saves are too low, but the rest of the math is right. It's just very confusingly laid out.

actually think that ruling stands. it makes sense. a thief can wait till a party charges him and use his ready action to toss grease on the steps and run to the side. the cops would continue slip in the grease and fall back down stairs. a charge is the same idea. Better make sure they don't have an action ready for you.

So on a completely random side note, I would love to see a spell caster craft an Apparatus of the Crab and sling spells from inside of it... one could only wish though...

Chaiboy, charge rules state the following:

"You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."

I believe that means anyone with reach would stop before they became adjacent with the opponent to begin with.

Is that your take on it?