The Arena (Inactive)

Game Master chaiboy

Across the planes and myriad world the obelisks rose, beacons for all to see. The Heralds announce a call for the greatest warriors to fight each other in a game of the gods. The hero to be given mythic powers


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Silver Crusade

i am going to let craft wondrous items stand. it can be used. Melee classes can get Master Craftsman so it isn't so one sided. If it gets to lopsided then I'll have to ban the related feats next time. And have all the mages go up against each other this time.

added info about master craftsman


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chaiboy wrote:
actually think that ruling stands. it makes sense. a thief can wait till a party charges him and use his ready action to toss grease on the steps and run to the side. the cops would continue slip in the grease and fall back down stairs. a charge is the same idea. Better make sure they don't have an action ready for you.

Just keep in mind that readying an action to interrupt an action does not necessarily prevent them from finishing said action, or even starting a new one.

For example, if I ready an action to move backwards out of range of my enemy the moment he begins to move towards me, he doesn't lose his movement. In fact, he can choose to finish his movement by stopping next to someone else who IS within his range. Alternatively, he could stop after 5 feet, call it a 5-foot step, then make a full attack with a bow.

However, if someone charges me and I trip them with the attack of opportunity from my reach weapon, there movement DOES end. If he moved rather than charged, he could still take a standard action.

Also, a lot of people think that if you take a readied action, your turn mysteriously ends. This is not true. You could move and ready an action, or ready an action and move, for example. There's a catch though. If you ready an action and then take any other kind of action prior to the trigger, you lose your readied action.


Hmm. I kinda wanna see this as a Mage Combat parallel to a Warrior Combat.

The winners of with then fight to see who wins.

Alchemists would be in the Warrior side and Magi and such are on the Mage side.


@ Please Don't Kill Me: I saw that, and thought it would be awesome if anyone brought one into battle.

@ chaiboy: So, do we have any clarification on whether or not bestiary feats are allowed?

Also, cool to hear crafting feats are in. I don't honestly think they'll unbalance things, though I guess we'll see. I'm much more interested in returning flyby attack to my feats though if I can...


I'm probably going to make some changes to keep up with the crafting contest.


Chaiboy - how do you feel about a Keen Amulet of Mighty Fists, with using Hamatulatsu to make my fists piercing (and thus eligible for keen)?

Keen wrote:
This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen.
Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.
Hamatulatsu wrote:
Your unarmed attacks can deal either bludgeoning or piercing damage. You decide which type of damage you deal whenever you attack a foe, but you may only choose one type at a time.

I don't know of any official word one way or the other.


Nu'Raahl wrote:
I'm probably going to make some changes to keep up with the crafting contest.

I wish I could find this post I had read before about crafting. Someone crunched a few numbers and came out with two characters, one who crafted and one who didn't. It came out to be the crafter spent a bit more on their items in total, and had +1 in a couple things, but they were otherwise extremely close. For a feat and skill investment, it averaged out pretty well in my opinion.

I totally should have favorited the post :/


Nu'Raahl wrote:
I'm probably going to make some changes to keep up with the crafting contest.

If I can get a 19-20 crit range on my fists from the combination of Keen and Hamatulatsu, I'm going to replace Improved Crit with crafting myself, ridiculous as that is.

If not, I might replace Hamatulatsu - it's the only feat of high enough level that isn't essential to the build. I'll be sorry to lose it, though.

Edit: Actually, it'd have to be more drastic. I forgot that I'd need to replace a higher level feat with the crafting one itself... Which means back to the drawing board.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Bobson, I don't believe Hamatulatsu is in a legal book source.

Silver Crusade

Darkwolf117 wrote:

@ Please Don't Kill Me: I saw that, and thought it would be awesome if anyone brought one into battle.

@ chaiboy: So, do we have any clarification on whether or not bestiary feats are allowed?

Also, cool to hear crafting feats are in. I don't honestly think they'll unbalance things, though I guess we'll see. I'm much more interested in returning flyby attack to my feats though if I can...

We aren't using feats from the Bestiary. Everything must come from the books listed.

Everyone make sure you don't have feats from the Bestiary.


Ravingdork wrote:
Bobson, I don't believe Hamatulatsu is in a legal book source.

Ah, shoot. You're right. Good catch - I thought I'd turned off everything disallowed in Hero Lab and it still showed up, so I assumed it was good. I must have missed that book.

Nevermind, Chaiboy...

Silver Crusade

Ravingdork wrote:
chaiboy wrote:
actually think that ruling stands. it makes sense. a thief can wait till a party charges him and use his ready action to toss grease on the steps and run to the side. the cops would continue slip in the grease and fall back down stairs. a charge is the same idea. Better make sure they don't have an action ready for you.

Just keep in mind that readying an action to interrupt an action does not necessarily prevent them from finishing said action, or even starting a new one.

For example, if I ready an action to move backwards out of range of my enemy the moment he begins to move towards me, he doesn't lose his movement. In fact, he can choose to finish his movement by stopping next to someone else who IS within his range. Alternatively, he could stop after 5 feet, call it a 5-foot step, then make a full attack with a bow.

However, if someone charges me and I trip them with the attack of opportunity from my reach weapon, there movement DOES end. If he moved rather than charged, he could still take a standard action.

Also, a lot of people think that if you take a readied action, your turn mysteriously ends. This is not true. You could move and ready an action, or ready an action and move, for example. There's a catch though. If you ready an action and then take any other kind of action prior to the trigger, you lose your readied action.

is this listed somewhere. the main rule book was pretty open to interpretation. So in your example above he still has to move he can just change who he moves toward? I'll have to do more digging.

So the charge and interrupt final ruling i will leave open till i see something else on this. If I can't find something else on this then I'll probably use my interpretation.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chaiboy wrote:

We aren't using feats from the Bestiary. Everything must come from the books listed.

Everyone make sure you don't have feats from the Bestiary.

But you've already okay-ed my character...?

Are you even reading them? My character has been through, like, four iterations, with me asking about the Bestiary feats a half dozen times. All you ever said was "your character looks fine." With respect, all this back and forth is getting annoying.


chaiboy wrote:

We aren't using feats from the Bestiary. Everything must come from the books listed.

Everyone make sure you don't have feats from the Bestiary.

Arg, guess I'm taking up crafting then.

Also, for anyone interested in some numbers, this is a cool post, imo. The whole thread has a lot of stuff, but it seems like a fairly accurate assessment.

YMMV though, and I guess we'll see what happens in the Arena anyway.


@Ravingdork - is the CL listed on an item (on the upper part - not in the "Construction Requirements" section) a requirement that must be met? Or one that can be bypassed with a +5 increase in DC? Or just a guideline for the CL of the typical version, and you can create it regardless of your level?

I somewhat remember it being the last one, but I'm really unsure.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bobson wrote:

@Ravingdork - is the CL listed on an item (on the upper part - not in the "Construction Requirements" section) a requirement that must be met? Or one that can be bypassed with a +5 increase in DC? Or just a guideline for the CL of the typical version, and you can create it regardless of your level?

I somewhat remember it being the last one, but I'm really unsure.

You do NOT have have to meet the CL*, however, it DOES set the craft DC for your Spellcraft check.

* For example, a 3rd-level character could make a pearl of power (CL 17th) provided he could make the skill check.

Silver Crusade

wait if they can change their mind how does a ready weapon work. If someone charges and I respond with my ready action by setting my polearm to attack can the charger get to stop short before finishing his move? I am missing something here.


Ravingdork wrote:
Bobson wrote:

@Ravingdork - is the CL listed on an item (on the upper part - not in the "Construction Requirements" section) a requirement that must be met? Or one that can be bypassed with a +5 increase in DC? Or just a guideline for the CL of the typical version, and you can create it regardless of your level?

I somewhat remember it being the last one, but I'm really unsure.

You do NOT have have to meet the CL*, however, it DOES set the craft DC for your Spellcraft check.

* For example, a 3rd-level character could make a pearl of power (CL 17th) provided he could make the skill check.

Ah, excellent.

If I go with what I'm experimenting with, don't ask me how I use Profession (shepherd) to craft magic items...


Bobson wrote:
...don't ask me how I use Profession (shepherd) to craft magic items...

...This intrigues me.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chaiboy wrote:
wait if they can change their mind how does a ready weapon work. If someone charges and I respond with my ready action by setting my polearm to attack can the charger get to stop short before finishing his move? I am missing something here.

There is nothing in the rules saying you must finish the charge (or any other action for that matter). Whether or not the charger can tell you are going to skewer them with a readied action, however, is highly debatable.

If I were GM, I'd say it depends on the situation: If you said "I attack him when he charges," then it triggers the moment he begins his charge, it's obvious what you are up to, and you can't complete your attack unless he is within your melee reach at the start of his charge (unlikely) or you have a ranged weapon.

However, if you said "I attack him when he charges into my melee reach" then it isn't the charge that triggers the attack, but him entering your threatened space. Among other things, that means your attack come much later in his movement.


Profession(Shepherd)... Now it is getting cheesy. Prof(Soldier) I could see for Magic Arms/Armour. But Shepherd... well maybe for Staves.


Afhter drastic changes I think my character is almost complete.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This sucks. In all likelihood the one thing my character had going for her (being a spellcasting tank) just went up in smoke.

I strongly urge you to reconsider Chaiboy. With the exception of Craft Construct, none of the Bestiary feats are at all unbalancing when used with PC characters.


I support the ravingdork petition. his AC make him spellcaster a tank but every feat spended in that tactis is one feat not spended in dazing spell ;p


I agree with RD.

Silver Crusade

Joshua Hirtz wrote:

Chaiboy, charge rules state the following:

"You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."

I believe that means anyone with reach would stop before they became adjacent with the opponent to begin with.

Is that your take on it?

yup. so if you charge with the longer spear then you can stop 2 squares away.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
chaiboy wrote:
Joshua Hirtz wrote:

Chaiboy, charge rules state the following:

"You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."

I believe that means anyone with reach would stop before they became adjacent with the opponent to begin with.

Is that your take on it?

yup. so if you charge with the longer spear then you can stop 2 squares away.

My understanding was you have to stop.

Silver Crusade

This is a slippery slop. if i allow bestiary for some feats then do i allow all the other pet classes and features. We had an aasimar that wanted to use the table from a book for a subtype that i had to leave out. there are a few classes that people had to do without. CP is rebuilding his whole character because i don't have a bunch of books he used to build his character. For this battle lets stick to the books listed. I know it means rethinking some stuff but every change at this point just delays us further and becomes unfair unless i let everyone have the books they wanted.

Silver Crusade

Joshua Hirtz wrote:
chaiboy wrote:
Joshua Hirtz wrote:

Chaiboy, charge rules state the following:

"You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."

I believe that means anyone with reach would stop before they became adjacent with the opponent to begin with.

Is that your take on it?

yup. so if you charge with the longer spear then you can stop 2 squares away.
My understanding was you have to stop.

maybe i explained that wrong. You would be 10 feet away when you stopped instead of 5 feet away when you stopped if you where using a short weapon.

Silver Crusade

Bobson wrote:

@Ravingdork - is the CL listed on an item (on the upper part - not in the "Construction Requirements" section) a requirement that must be met? Or one that can be bypassed with a +5 increase in DC? Or just a guideline for the CL of the typical version, and you can create it regardless of your level?

I somewhat remember it being the last one, but I'm really unsure.

I posted the rule on the website. but you can just take the penalty and craft if you want.


wow guys lots of post,

so base saves are exactly that base from class no stat bonus added yet, so summoner 10 monk 1 has base of

Fort 5, Ref 5, Will 9

when fused: Con 19, Dex 16, Wis 20 so saves become

Fort 9, Ref 8, Will 14

Now you add the +2 from shield meld which is a circumstance bonus, +3 bonus from cloak of resist, and +1 to will from trait for

Fort 14, Ref 13, Will 20

Then bestow grace is another +8 all the info is there, but I am happy to break it down. Heading to bed you guys made like 70 post since I left work, crazy active :) talk to you guys tomorrow. And I will rework my stats a bit since I wont be middle aged. Thanks for looking things over.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chaiboy wrote:
This is a slippery slop. if i allow bestiary for some feats then do i allow all the other pet classes and features. We had an aasimar that wanted to use the table from a book for a subtype that i had to leave out. there are a few classes that people had to do without. CP is rebuilding his whole character because i don't have a bunch of books he used to build his character. For this battle lets stick to the books listed. I know it means rethinking some stuff but every change at this point just delays us further and becomes unfair unless i let everyone have the books they wanted.

To be honest, I was surprised that you didn't include the Bestiary feats in the first place.

Well, at least you're being decisive. Also, what other books? Were people asking about 3rd-party products (which are notorious for balance issues), or about Golarion campaign setting books? That's about all that's left after the ones you listed.


chaiboy wrote:
This is a slippery slop. if i allow bestiary for some feats then do i allow all the other pet classes and features.

But the bestiary is one of the simpler rulebooks, as opposed to the many others that are out there. And there's not even that many monster feats in it in the first place, certainly very few when compared to the core, advanced and ultimate books. If people can make use of them, I don't see why not.

Then again, I am a little biased since I already know what I'd like in my build. In the end, it is your decision, so I'll abide whichever.

Edit: Also, since I already changed equipment based on Craft Wondrous Item, I'm not terribly inclined to change it all back. So, meh.


chaiboy wrote:
This is a slippery slop. if i allow bestiary for some feats then do i allow all the other pet classes and features. We had an aasimar that wanted to use the table from a book for a subtype that i had to leave out. there are a few classes that people had to do without. CP is rebuilding his whole character because i don't have a bunch of books he used to build his character. For this battle lets stick to the books listed. I know it means rethinking some stuff but every change at this point just delays us further and becomes unfair unless i let everyone have the books they wanted.

Personally, I'd much rather have Bestiary feats allowed than crafting feats. You don't have to allow the races from it, or Leadership (which is actually core), or anything else. And actually, I don't care either way if you do - I just think the direction we're going with crafting is ridiculous.


Marcus Ironskin wrote:


Then bestow grace is another +8 all the info is there, but I am happy to break it down. Heading to bed you guys made like 70 post since I left work, crazy active :) talk to you guys tomorrow. And I will rework my stats a bit since I wont be middle aged. Thanks for looking things over.

I am not good with synths, so how is marcus castingbestow grace on himself?


Bobson wrote:
Personally, I'd much rather have Bestiary feats allowed than crafting feats. You don't have to allow the races from it, or Leadership (which is actually core), or anything else. And actually, I don't care either way if you do - I just think the direction we're going with crafting is ridiculous.

I admit, I would think it makes much more sense for crafting to be restricted more than bestiary feats.

@ Nicos: He's just got a wand of it, and I would guess a high enough UMD to use it. Edit: +22 is indeed high enough.


Darkwolf117 wrote:


@ Nicos: He's just got a wand of it, and I would guess a high enough UMD to use it. Edit: +22 is indeed high enough.

well

Spoiler:

"With this spell you can bestow your divine grace on another good creature for a short amount of time, infusing that creature with a portion of your holy virtue. When you touch the subject, you grant that creature a sacred bonus to its saving throws equal to its Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws."

It seem that the caster have to have divine grace as class feature in order to bestow it to others, but i do not really know.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Meredith...again.

Aggravating!


@ Nicos: Hmm... that is a good point. In theory, a Paladin would have crafted it in the first place, so I would personally allow it, but I admit it's a somewhat odd case.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nicos wrote:
Darkwolf117 wrote:


@ Nicos: He's just got a wand of it, and I would guess a high enough UMD to use it. Edit: +22 is indeed high enough.

well

** spoiler omitted **

Chaiboy, does this wand even work if you don't have divine grace?


UMD can also emulate class features. Funny enough, in order to emulate the class feature, you might also need to emulate the alignment, which you can also do with UMD! Fun stuff.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I doubt you need the alignment. Class feature is debatable.


What would you call Divine Grace, if not a class feature of the Pally?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Notice how you did it in caps, and the spell description does it in lower case? For all we know, it isn't even referring to a game mechanic.

But that's just me playing devil's advocate. I personally wouldn't mind seeing that damnable wand go away.


chaiboy wrote:
Sir Oktain wrote:
Sir Oktain wrote:
Sir Oktain wrote:

One more quick question: Can my mount wear a belt?

Yet another: What happens if a readied move action in response to a charge breaks a charge? Because eventually, it will happen.

We are not using age rules.

Readied charge: Chai, usually the ready is just before the attack on the charge, or on the square entered.

The point is the character then moves away. The charging character has charged in a straight line and therefore cannot follow or attack. raw.


For what it's worth, my preliminary pass at adding crafting to my character has resulted in the following:

  • One unfilled feat slot has been filled.
  • One essential feat has been removed (Improved Crit)
  • Perception went down by 9. Hp went down by 1. Stealth went down by 4. Profession (shepherd) went up by 21 (11 ranks, 4->5 wis mod, +3 class skill, +2 from the feat)
  • Strength increased by 2, and all shuriken become returning (which doesn't help anything).
  • Wisdom increased by 2.
  • Saves increased by 1.
  • Gained another 6250 gp to spend.

The hardest thing to craft so far has been DC 27, and my take-10 would be 31.

Alternatively, I might pick up some crafted ioun stones - is "creator must be 12th level" a bypassable requirement too?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Aren't shuriken destroyed after use? Why would you EVER make them returning?


Ravingdork wrote:
Aren't shuriken destroyed after use? Why would you EVER make them returning?

Because the Belt of Mighty Hurling does that to everything thrown weapon I use. Maybe that means I get sprayed with shards of shattered shuriken?

As I said, it doesn't help anything.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

lol.

On another note: I hate this. Meredith doesn't even resemble a character that would appear in normal play anymore...

Is there a set time and date where we are expected to kill each other? A hard deadline would really help to speed this along. Maybe everyone would just shut up and concern themselves with finishing their own characters?


^ Agreed. Gorik is min-maxed for level 11 and nothing else, and it is bugging the hell out of me! >_<

Edit: And yeah, a set date/time would be rather nice.

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