I saw the opening for a CK and almost jumped on it, but I really love 'Thumper'
Alright, I think I got it right this time. Advancements has what was spent on what. And as for the quirks, I hope they'll come off more funny than annoying. I tried to think of ones that would fit Elaina's personality and give the GM some opportunity to poke fun at my character.
AGLITY: d8
SMARTS: d8
SPIRIT: d6
STRENGTH: d4
VIGOR: d6
CHARISMA: +2
PACE: 6
RUN: +1d6
LOAD LIMIT: 20 lbs, MAX: 60 lbs
PARRY: 7
TOUGHNESS: 8(3)
RANK: Novice
ADVANCEMENTS: 1
RACE: Human, 1 Free Novice Edge
SEX: Female
19 Points
Mysticism(Faith) (Spirit): d10 - 2
Psionics (Smarts): d6 - (Free)
Notice (Smarts): d6+2 - 2
Stealth (Agility): d8 - 3
Survival (Smarts): d6 - 2
Tracking (Smarts): d4 - 1
Shooting (Agility): d10 - 5
Persuasion (Spirit): d4+2 - 1
Fighting (Agility): d8 - 3
Attractive:
Requirements: Novice, Vigor d6+
It’s no secret that beautiful people have an easier time getting their way in life. This Edge grants your beautiful or handsome character +2 to Charisma.
Acrobat:
Requirements: Novice, Agility d8+, Strength d6+
Those who have formal training in the acrobatic arts or are naturally agile may take this Edge. It adds +2 to all Agility rolls made to perform acrobatic maneuvers (including Trick maneuvers), and also adds +1 to a character’s Parry as long as he has no encumbrance penalty.
Arcane Background (Miracles):
Mystics begin with four starting powers (from the list on SWRIFTS 39) and 15 PPE. They also have the Mysticism skill at d8 (which counts as Faith for all other Edge requirements).
Arcane Background (Psionics):
As a minor psionic, a Mystic begins with three powers (from the list on SWRIFTS 40) and 10 ISP. He also has a beginning Psionics skill of d6.
Cosmic Confluence:
Not only do Mystics enjoy the unique capacity to possess two Arcane Backgrounds, they are able to interchange their ISP and PPE as needed. A Mystic can sacrifice two ISP to use as one PPE, and vice versa. Power Points shifted like this must be used at the moment they are exchanged, they cannot be shifted and then simply stored. For example, if a Mystic shifts 4 PPE in order to gain 2 ISP, he must immediately use those points of ISP to enact a psionic power.
Master of Magic:
Requirements: Seasoned, Arcane Background (any but Psionics), Smarts d8+, Arcane Skill d8+, Knowledge (Arcana) d6+
True understanding of the ley lines, Rifts, and eldritch flow of power through the world grants many spellcasters exceptional might and capability with their magic. A Master of Magic gains the Mega Power option for each power he knows upon taking this Edge. Each time he takes the New Power Edge, he gains both the power and its Mega Power use as well.
Rapid Recharge (PPE):
Requirements: Seasoned, Spirit d6+, Arcane Background
This Edge allows an arcane character to regain 1 Power Point every 30 minutes.
Alertness:
Requirements: Novice
Not much gets by your hero. He’s very observant and perceptive, and adds +2 to his Notice rolls to hear, see, or otherwise sense the world around him.
Danger Sense:
Requirements: Novice
Your hero can sense when something bad is about to happen. Anytime he’s about to be the victim of a surprise attack, ambush, or other nasty surprise, he gets a Notice roll at –2 just before the attack or event occurs. If successful, the character knows something is about to happen and may take appropriate action against it. This means the hero is on Hold for the first round of a combat. Should the hero fail his roll, he still follows the normal Surprise rules, if applicable (see SWD 65)
Mystic Awareness:
Mystics have powerful extrasensory perception and attunement, granting them the Alertness and Danger Sense Edges, as well as the use of detect arcana at will, costing no PPE or ISP, as a free action. They can also sense powerful supernatural beings with a Notice check, anywhere within line of sight.
Spiritual Channel:
Constantly in contact with spirits, and possibly divine messengers of his faith, a Mystic can use the divination power without using ISP or PPE. Each time he uses it, he must make a Vigor roll to resist gaining a level of Fatigue. Each subsequent use of the power imposes a cumulative −1 penalty on the Vigor check until he gets a full night’s rest (eight hours). It is possible for a Mystic to Incapacitate himself with this ability. Fatigue levels gained from Spiritual Channel can only be recovered with eight hours of rest (succor cannot restore). Mystics have access to communion but activate it normally with 10 PPE.
Enemy (Minor): Coalition States
The Coalition has shoot on sight orders for me.
Enemy (Minor): The True Federation of Magic
The Federation of Magic has orders to kill or capture me.
Code of Honor (Major):
Phobia (Major):
I am deathly afraid of tight spaces. I get nervous in small rooms and if I can't stretch one of my arms out without hitting a wall, I begin to panic.
Effect: -4 to all trait rolls when in or threatened to be put in tight, enclosed spaces.
Quirk (Minor):
Whenever I find myself with nothing to do, I start arranging things in some order or pattern. If there's nothing available, I start to fiddle with whatever I have in my pockets or onhand as I start counting whatever is in sight or passing by.
Quirk (Minor):
I cannot pass up an opportunity to pet a dog, cat, or other furry critter. Only if I know the thung is harmful or we're in full blown combat will I be able to resist the temptation. (But in the latter case, I will go back to see if the poor thing's okay and pet it then if I'm able.)
General Trappings:
Powers are activated by drawing runes in the air.
PPE: 15
ISP: 10
Mystic Powers: 4
Psionic Powers: 4
Detect Arcana At Will, Free
Range: Sight
Trappings: Runes and markings appearing around eyes, Edges of the irises glow.
Effect: sense supernatural persons, objects, or effects within sight. This includes invisible foes, enchantments on people or items, mad science devices, and so on.
Divination At Will, Free
Range: Sight
Trappings: Runes and markings appearing around eyes, Edges of the irises glow.
Effect: sense supernatural persons, objects, or effects within sight. This includes invisible foes, enchantments on people or items, mad science devices, and so on.
MYSTIC POWERS
Boost/Lower Trait
PPE: 2
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: Smarts (8" or 16 yards/14.9 meters)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: Raise/Lower a Trait by 1 die type on a success or 2 on a raise. Raising a trait beyong a d12 adds +1 to the Trait total. Lowering a Trait is opposed by target's Spirit. Cannot lower beyond a d4.
Greater Boost/Lower Trait (Mega-Powered Boost/Lower Trait)
PPE: 4
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: Smarts x 2 (16" or 32 yards/29.9 meters)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: This Mega Power doubles the power’s effect; two die types for a success,
four with a raise.
Communion (Mega-Powered Divination)
PPE: 10
Duration: 1 minute
Range: Self
Trappings:
Effects: Success with this Mega Power grants a single answer of one to three sentences, while a raise grants the equivalent of a paragraph or more (at the GM’s discretion). A raise might even mean a full, interactive conversation with an appropriate entity.
Invisibility
PPE: 5
Range: Self (May affect up to 5 others for 1 PPE per target)
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: A Success renders the target transparent with a faint outline. Notice and attack rolls against target are at -4. On a raise, the penalty is -6 since there isn't even an outline. Anything picked up after the power was cast remains visible.
True Invisibility (Mega-Powered Invisibility)
PPE: 10
Range: Self (May affect up to 5 others for 1 PPE per target)
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: Normal invisibility generally applies to normal sight-based Notice checks; true invisibility applies to all senses, including mystical, technological, or greatly enhanced ones. The recipient cannot be seen or detected by any means, unless he attacks someone. In that circumstance, any attempt to detect or attack the character with true invisibility is made at −8.
True invisibility also makes it impossible for anyone using most means of scrying or other detection to find the character; this includes divination and clairvoyance. Those using detect arcana s uffer a − 4 p enalty t o see someone using true invisibility (though exalted detect arcana works at no penalty). Generally speaking, it is nearly impossible for the character to be seen or detected if he does not take an aggressive action against someone else; the GM is final arbiter of this power’s ultimate limits.
Quickness
PPE: 4
Range: Touch
Duration: 3 (2/round)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: A Success grants the target 2 turns on their card. Each turn is independent of the other. A Raise allows the target to redraw initiative cards lower than an 8.
Exalted Quickness (Mega-Powered Quickness)
PPE: 8
Range: Touch
Duration: 3 (2/round)
Trappings: Courage
Effects: In addition to the two complete turns the character gains with quickness, he may ignore up to two points of multi-action penalties on each of those turns.
Smite
PPE: 2
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: Touch (May affect up to 5 others for 1 PPE per target)
Trappings: Celestial Silver
Effects: A success increases a weapon's damage by +2, +4 on a raise.
Greater Smite (Mega-Powered Smite)
PPE: 4
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: Touch (May affect up to 5 others for 1 PPE per target)
Trappings: Celestial Silver
Effects: This Mega Power version of smite confers two effects:
The bonus damage is +4 with success, +8 with a raise, and the damage becomes Mega Damage.
The caster may choose any Trapping to confer at the time of casting. This might be silver, fire, holy light, etc.
PSIONIC POWERS
Clairvoyance
ISP: 3+
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: Varies
Trappings:
Effects: Clairvoyance allows the caster to sense people, places, and things outside of normal perception. The Range varies depending on the Arcane skill roll. A success gives the caster a Range equal to her Spirit × 10 in miles, and a raise increases that to Spirit × 100 miles. Walls, doors, and other barriers do not hamper clairvoyance in any way, though magical barriers may block it at the GM’s discretion. While it’s active, the user of this power can shift the point of observation to anywhere within her Range as a free action. When using clairvoyance, the caster chooses a single sense (usually sight) to project. For each additional 1 PP she spends at casting, she may add an additional sense; this does not affect maintenance costs.
Healing
ISP: 3
Duration: Instant
Range: Touch
Trappings: Gift of Life
Effects: Removes 1 wound on a success or 2 wounds on a raise when cast on wounds less than 1 hour old. Roll with a penalty equal to the number of wounds. Can also cure poison or disease when cast within 10 minutes of contagion.
Mind Reading
ISP: 3
Duration: 1
Range: Smarts (8" or 16 yards/14.9 meters)
Trappings:
Effects: Arcane roll opposed by target's Smarts. Get 1 truthful answer on a success, but target knows of the intrusion. The target is unaware on a raise. GM may apply modifiers for mental Hindrances/current state of mind.
Telepathy
ISP: 2
Duration: 3 (1/round)
Range: 1 Mile
Trappings: Courage
Effects: Telepathy is used to communicate mentally with other people. If the target is willing, a simple success is all that is needed. Otherwise, the roll is opposed by the target’s Spirit. Success allows communication with the target. Only those thoughts and images the participants wish to send can be sensed; anything more requires mind reading. If the caster cannot see the target, they must know and be able to identify the intended recipient in some reasonable fashion; their roll suffers a −4 penalty. Once telepathic contact is established, it may be maintained up to one mile away.
49 lbs (-2 to Strength and Agility), 19 lbs w/o NG-S2 Survival Pack (No Penalty)
- Ley Line Walker Light Armor
-- Armor: 3, Weight: 4, +4 Vigor vs. Airborne toxins and diseases
- NG-33 Laser Pistol
-- Damage: 2d4+1, AP: 2, RoF: 1, Shots: 20, Range: 15/30/60, Weight: 4, Semi-Auto
- Iceblast Shotgun
-- Damage: 1-3d6, AP: -, RoF:1-2, Shots: 8, Range: 12/24/48, Weight: 11, 1 PPE to reload, Halves Target movement on raise, Shotgun (Double-barreled) Rules
- NG-S2 Survival Pack
-- Weight: 30
-- Items:
--- 1x 2-Person Tent: Insulated against -40 degrees F, +20% to water supplies
--- 1x Sleeping Bag: Insulated against -40 degrees F
--- 1x Flashlight w/ Concealed Pocketknife
--- 1x Biometric Compass/Inertial Mapper: +2 to Survival for land navigation, mirrored back for signaling
--- 1x Radio: 5 mile range.
--- 1x First Aid Kit: 3 uses, +1 Healing rolls
--- 1x Hunter/Fisher Kit: +1 to Survival for food gathering
--- 3x Saw Wires: good vs. all non-MDC
--- 1x Fire Starter: solar-powered ignition cell, flint sparker w/ 7 flints.
--- 1x Survival Knife
--- 1x Small Hatchet
--- 1x Wooden Cross
--- 4x Signal Flares
--- 1x Climbing Kit: 30 foot cord, climbing gloves, 4x ceramic spikes, small mallet
--- 1x Bar of Soap
--- 1x Sterilized Cloth
--- 1x Canteen
--- 14x Survival Rations
- 7,000 credits.
Start:
- Human Free Edge: Attractive
- Hindrance Points:
-- Increase Smarts die type.
-- Increase Shooting from a d8 to a d10
- HJ Rolls:
-- Enchanted Items & Mystic Gadgets: 5 - Iceblast Shotgun
-- Experience & Wisdom: 20 - Pick any result on the table. Picked: Gain 1 Professional Edge w/ GM approval. Picked Acrobat.
-- Magic & Mysticism: 1 - Soul Drain Edge
-- Psionics: 10 - 1 free power from the Mystic list or 1 free novice power. Picked Greater Healing.
-- Ranged Weapons: 5 - +1 to shooting with 1 starting gun. Picked Iceblast Shotgun.
Novice 1:
- +2 Skill Points, Spent on increasing Mysticism to d10.
So, anyone got any threes?
Rigor - any estimate on when you'll be able to start the game again? I'm sure there's lots to review in order to make a reminder summary - I'm not in a hurry, just curious.
Same here. Not in any rush, but I would like to know if there's anything you see wrong with Elaina's stats.
Yah, time can get away from you easily some times. I'm hoping to get to it tonight. If I dont, it will still be as soon as I can dedicate time, which will hopefully be tomorrow night.
No worries, just wanted to know if I need to fix anything.
Nope, build looks solid.
I will need a Profile completed for Captain Attero, as well as a history, before he can be introduced.
Woot!
Looking forward to Elaina's introduction to the group.
"The Emperor's finest, reporting."
Read your background. You've bounced around a bit it seems. How long have you been on Rifts Earth, and how long have you been with the Legion?
As for your name, were you a Captain before joining the Legion, or are you thinking you are a Captain with the Legion? Second, obviously you will have to be inKingsdale to join up with the group. Why were you there? On leave, seeing someone, on official business?
Have most of an intro post done up. Just need to finish it up and post it when ready. Had an Overtime graveyard ship last night, so that should happen after I get some sleep.
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"The Emperor's finest, reporting."Read your background. You've bounced around a bit it seems. How long have you been on Rifts Earth, and how long have you been with the Legion?
As for your name, were you a Captain before joining the Legion, or are you thinking you are a Captain with the Legion? Second, obviously you will have to be inKingsdale to join up with the group. Why were you there? On leave, seeing someone, on official business?
1) I'd like to say I've been on this Earth five years. 104 PA is long enough to have had friendly relations with the Coalition, join Tolkeen, see Tolkeen raised, and then join the Legion right after it falls. So, I've been with the Legion a few months as one of the refugees from Tolkeen.
2) Yes to both a Captain before and one now, but if that's an issue I can just cross out Captain, write in Sergeant, and use a different alias.
3) We could keep it easy and say that the Legion did not trust the Ambassador with only that one hot-shot Power Armor pilot as a security guard. =)
But if not, then, yes, some kind of official capacity.
Having blue screen of death issues. My posting may be intermittent until I can get this thing fixed.
I have decided that Arsenio Spirit Guns people.
I don't remember if he did this before, but I find it cool, so nyeh.
Update: Old computer is kaput. Bought a new computer, spent a day getting it up to speed, turns out it had a faulty battery. Exchanged for new new computer. I'm close to getting it up to speed. At the moment, I can't get Hero Lab to bring in all of the Savage Rifts stuff, so I have no character sheet other than what is in my profile, and only barely understand the rules.
No problem tumbler; I'll bot you as necessary till you get back in the swing of things.
??? I searched both SWD and SWADE core rules, and RIFTS(SWD) for "Challenge" and couldn't find anything...
My SW Deluxe rules has it on page 96, they are called Dramatic Tasks.
I’m under the weather. I’ll get back when I can.
Oh no. Get well soon. :(
PEG published something after SWD, but well before SWADE, called Quick Combat Rules. I *think* it's available as a free download PDF, and it's only 2 pages long.
The problem with Dramatic Tasks is that one PC is usually trying to accomplish a specific goal, like defusing a bomb or finishing a ritual, while the other PC's are just vaguely "fighting the bad guys".
The Quick Combat rules engage every PC, with different results for each PC depending on their rolls.
HERE. Free download.
Now that I've looked at them again, what I don't like about them is you get a Wound on an ordinary Failure, which could put some PC's out of the fight really quickly.
Elaina:
One of the default setting rules is Critical Failures: no spending a bennie to get out of Critical Failures. The other default rules are here, in case you missed them:
Blood & Guts: Anyone can spend a Benny to re-roll damage rolls.
Born a Hero: Ignore Rank requirements for Edges (and powers from them) at character creation.
Critical Failures: Bennies cannot
be spent on Trait rolls where
double 1s are rolled.
Joker’s Wild: When a player
draws a Joker, all players get a
bonus Benny.
Oh, right. I forgot about that. Sorry!
Welp. This is about to get ugly. I'm not sure I'd change anything in my post besides her actually falling on her face.
Sorry for the delay. Being home with kids all day due to lack of school, but still having to work (in a essential services job), has meant very little free time. Will try to update tonight.
It's alright, things have been crazy for everybody. Take your time. We'll still be here when you get some time to post.
I totally understand, crazy times. post when you get a chance. Take care of the family.
Just a heads up. I did something stupid and gave my fingers a steam burn. I'm hoping that the pain will lessen in the next day or two, but posts from me are definitely going to be less than they have been.
Well, it seems I'm doing a lot better today than I thought I would be. Still stings a little, but not nearly as much as before. Assuming things continue this way, I should be good.
No post from me tonight. I'm okay, just really tired.
Moved from Gameplay thread:
Rigor - the question is literally about whether the +1 on a d12 carries over to the d6, and Clint said yes. I don't know how he could have mis-read the question. Also, some things about the rules are so "core" that they simply don't change over time.
I think a misread is pretty easy in this case. Glancing at the question he could read it to be exactly as you just stated, does a +1 to a d12 transfer over to the d6. I would say yes it does to that too. The difference is that if your dice itself were a d12+1, the +1 would not transfer.
In the game, when a skill or trait increases, it goes up a die one at at a time: d4 to d6 to d8 to d10 to d12. No matter what you have for your core trait, your wild die stays a d6. Always. When you run out of dice to increase, what happens? D20 is too big and jump, and though bigger dice that a twenty side exist, they are also impractical for this purpose. Therefore your dice is ruled to get a +1 for each increase. It is not a modifier per se, it is the die. A d12 die increases to a d12+1, and a d12+1 to a d12+2. From d4 to d12, no part of your die roll increase affects the wild die. To have it suddenly start affecting the wild die after d12 is logically inconsistent, and would be significantly unbalancing.
It also defeats the purpose of the wild die, which is supposed to be a second chance Wild Cards receive, just to see if they could have succeeded by random luck.
Modifiers would transfer from your trait die to the wild die, because they are external factors that would legitimately influence the outcome, even if nothing skill related were considered. Double tap, 3 round burst, the drop, aid from a 3rd party, etcetera etcetera. The wild die determined everything up until the second I pull the trigger; situational modifiers influence everything that happens after.
I have been practicing what I preach here all along as well. If you look back over the life of Shakti, she rolls a d12+3 for her Mysticism skill, but only adds a +1 to her wild die. That is because her skill is d12+2, but her staff adds a +1 to her skill. The +2 does not transfer to her wild die because it is intrinsic to her skill, not to circumstance. The +1 applies to the wild however because it is outside influence; anyone holding that staff would be at a +1 to mysticism, therefore it applies to the wild die. As an unapologetic power-gamer, if I believed it was reasonable to apply that +2 to my wild die, chances are high I would be doing it. However, that is a bridge too far for me, as it is completely at odds with everything in the rules from d4 to d12.
"B-b-b-but that's supposed to be my job."
*Puppy eyes of doom!*
"B-b-b-but that's supposed to be my job."
*Puppy eyes of doom!*
You're the techno-wizard type, I'm thinking more mundane tech. But mostly it would be about the vehicle and piloting. I could downplay the repair skills if that would be treading too much on Jaq's toes.
You're the techno-wizard type, I'm thinking more mundane tech. But mostly it would be about the vehicle and piloting. I could downplay the repair skills if that would be treading too much on Jaq's toes."B-b-b-but that's supposed to be my job."
*Puppy eyes of doom!*
Nah, I'm good. I was just poking some fun at ya. :P
I like Shakti as a character, but she can be a bit, ah, hard to get along with. She really does have an alien mindset from most humans, and that is both her greatest strength and greatest weakness in roleplay. It can be hard to relate to her mindset. I certainly don't agree with it, and Jaq doesn't either, but then again, Jaq is probably more kindhearted than is good for a character in Rifts.
"Hey, my panzer's still not fixed, so we need MOAR with teh FixxOrZ, not less."
"Sorry, I left the machine shop in my other pants, and I don't see room for one in yours."
Rigor - the specific question to Clint was "If you have a trait of d12+1", so I think it's pretty clear that the question is addressing the very same issue we are. And Clint's answer is "all modifiers apply to the higher die result...without exception".
I would like to post this question over at PEG, but would like you to phrase it here, so there can be no doubt about its resolution.
I don't disagree on the question asked, I disagree on the question answered, as I don't think they are the same question. As the answer provided conflicts with all other written rules, the most likely explanation is that he was in a hurry and misread the question. If you disagree, please address the points I made in my previous post and help me understand how and why this ruling could be consistent with the rules. As far as I can tell, both RAW and RAI agree that bonuses that are part of your die should not apply to the wild die.
We have a short answer from a developer, but one that is not included on any errata, and that conflicts with all other sources. The books are edited, reviewed, and play tested, answers on a forum are not.
I'm happy to compose a question for the forum that will answer the question, one way or the other, and get clarification on the issue.
Clint is great at answering questions, but this would not be the first time I'd seen him make a mistake, read a question incorrectly, or answer a similar question that was not actually the question asked. If you read through the Q&A forums, you see them occasionally where a question is asked answered, and then the asker comes back to ask a follow up question or a clarification, and Clint realizes he missed the point of the original question. He is only one guy, and he answers a lot of questions, so it is only human to occasionally mess one up.
What I am suggesting here is based on personal experience, so I am not just pulling it out of nowhere.
It is entirely possible that I am wrong, and he meant exactly what he said in response to that question, but I hope not. I hate rules that exist for no reason, and are inconsistent with the rest of the ruleset, but most games have at least one or two, and this may just be a spot where Savage Worlds messed up. Or there could a good reason for it that I am just not seeing. I'd love to be able to understand the Why of such a rule being in place, so if you have a theory or mechanical reason, I would love to hear it.
The core issue is this: why does the Wild Die stay static through all your dice changes, from d4 to d12, and then suddenly start increasing in step with your skill die, but only in this circumstance?
I always try to keep an open mind, so, if it turns out I am wrong and I am able to understand the reason, then obviously we'd go with it, with my apologies. If I'm wrong and I disagree with the reason, I'm still wrong and I'd apologize for the misunderstanding, but then I'd probably bring it back to the group for a vote on whether the rule needs fixing via a House Rule.
< Is confused.
< Is confused.
Never seen a rules dispute before, or just confused about what exactly we are disputing?
Rules disputes are as old as Roleplaying itself, and as long as they remain civil and no one gets too butthurt (myself included), they can be a healthy part of the experience.
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Consider Iron Man.
He has super-human strength. Let's say d12+2
He has to make a normal strength role, say to lift a good chair.
He can only fail on a 1. That's still 8% on the d12.
If there are no mods to the Wild Die, which is a 50% pass/fail, then even frickin' Iron Man has a 4% chance to fail to pick up a solid chair due to things.
Mind you, if his +2 is added to the Wild Die, then that drops to 1/6th of 8%, which puts the total fail rate just north of 1%.
It means that being SUPER-human puts you beyond even the normal goodness of even those that are merely above-average.
Also, what are we waiting for in Gameplay? Can we just bot them and move on? If we started using the 48-hour rule (that if you haven't posted in 48 hours you get botted) I think this game would move faster.
I'll give my 2 cents on it; I think it actually gives a reason to push for d12+x on a stat. The resources involved in doing so have generally seemed of little worth to me playing this game, so getting the +x to the Wild Die like all of the other static bonuses you could have bought instead (Signature Weapon, etc.) might make it worth waiting until Veteran or higher in most games to do it (since IIRC you can only raise an attribute once per experience rank).
It might be a slightly different deal in this game, where stats could start a lot higher, but it makes a whole lot of sense to me in the base game.
The core issue is this: why does the Wild Die stay static through all your dice changes, from d4 to d12, and then suddenly start increasing in step with your skill die, but only in this circumstance?
Because as Clint said, all total modifiers to the Trait die also applies to the d6. Below d12+1, there are no inherent modifiers to the Trait die, so the d6 stays d6. But as soon as the +1 appears, it also applies to the d6 because it is a modifier.
But I know you don't agree with this answer, and I think the reason is you're seeing the +1 in d12+1 as part of the Trait roll, not as a "Trait roll with a modifier". So please phrase the question that I'll post on the Core Rules board. I'll give you a starting point, please feel free to modify it or replace it as desired :
When a Trait die is d12+1 (or +2, +3, etc.), does the +1 also apply to the Wild die? If the roll is d12+1 *plus* some other bonus from an Edge or circumstance, does the +1 and the bonus apply to the Wild die?
Example : the Trait roll is d12+2. Is the Wild die d6 or d6+2?
Example : the Trait roll is d12+1 and +2 from some Edge. Is the Wild die d6+2 or d6+3?
P.S. - I hope I'm being civil enough, I don't want to sound insulting.
Not insulted at all. I have no problem with rules disputes, or getting to the bottom of disagreements or divergent interpretations. I made the butthurt comment more as lampshade hanging to convey that I was also doing my best to be civil. Since there is no tone of voice on these text threads, I find it best to go cautiously, so no one gets the impression you are getting more out of sorts than you actually are.
As having recent experience with the lack of tone problem, I can relate.
That said, I hope I'm managing to not make life difficult for you, Rigor Rictus. I'm not that experienced with Savage Worlds and less so with SW: Rifts.
Also, I should probably say what I hope to accomplish. I'm trying to get at the source to kill it, and hopefully this swarm will just disintegrate as what ever is controlling/spawning it is taken out. At the very least, I'm hoping that by killing the source, we get some sunshine back and that will largely take care of our problem for us.
Finally tracked down my PEG login and password and went to post the question. Saw that you beat me too it. Your post asks the question well enough, though I was planning to formulate it a bit more neutrally. It'll do though.
Depending on how he phrases the response, I may ask a follow up or clarification question, but it adequately states both points of view.
Consider Iron Man.
He has super-human strength. Let's say d12+2
He has to make a normal strength role, say to lift a good chair.
He can only fail on a 1. That's still 8% on the d12.
If there are no mods to the Wild Die, which is a 50% pass/fail, then even frickin' Iron Man has a 4% chance to fail to pick up a solid chair due to things.
Mind you, if his +2 is added to the Wild Die, then that drops to 1/6th of 8%, which puts the total fail rate just north of 1%.
It means that being SUPER-human puts you beyond even the normal goodness of even those that are merely above-average.
Also, what are we waiting for in Gameplay? Can we just bot them and move on? If we started using the 48-hour rule (that if you haven't posted in 48 hours you get botted) I think this game would move faster.
I don't think this argument holds due, mostly because of the hyperbole; no reasonable GM is going to ask for a roll to lift an object so well within his normal limits. Generally, I wouldn't usually ask for any strength check to lift something, unless it was contested, or beyond their normal lifting limit, but then, I know this is just an example. Let’s say instead he is scanning for power sources, with a Notice of d12+2. Should he automatically succeed? Is a 4% chance that he misses it that big an inconsistency? It should also be noted that that 4% requires a 1 on both dice, which is already considered a critical fail!
I think that is the key though, that the GM should only be asking for a roll when there is a reasonable chance of failure. I’ve had GM’s that ask for an Agility roll to step up onto a curb, or a Driving check to start your car, but it is not only implausible that you would fail, it is annoying to put up with, and really breaks the suspension of disbelief you have of your character as a larger than life hero.
You also used d12+2 as an example. What happens when the bonus is +3? The fail rate on the trait check is now 0%, but now the rate on d6+3 is also 0%. There is no chance of failure, unless a 1 on both is still considered a critical fail, so you can either never fail, or there is always a 4% chance of failure built in, depending on how you play that. So, whether or not there is a bonus on the wild die has no impact on the fail rate after +3, so the only thing it can affect is the degree of the success. So when it comes down to it, the bonus on a wild die just gives you additional chances for raises, making the best folk that much more likely to be even better.
I'll give my 2 cents on it; I think it actually gives a reason to push for d12+x on a stat. The resources involved in doing so have generally seemed of little worth to me playing this game, so getting the +x to the Wild Die like all of the other static bonuses you could have bought instead (Signature Weapon, etc.) might make it worth waiting until Veteran or higher in most games to do it (since IIRC you can only raise an attribute once per experience rank).
It might be a slightly different deal in this game, where stats could start a lot higher, but it makes a whole lot of sense to me in the base game.
That could make a certain amount of sense if it weren’t so arbitrary. If the wild die can change, why doesn’t it always change? Why make it a d6 it all? Why not make it a second chance roll in lock step with your skill die? Skill is a d4, wild is a d4, skill is a d8, wild is a d8, d10:10 - simple, and then increasing your roll with the die beyond d12 continues to make sense - d12+3 skill:d12+3 wild. I believe the reason is because the wild die is not supposed to represent your skill at the action, it represents fate, or heroic destiny! It is the random chance that fate will intervene on the part of the important players in a conflict, and accomplish the act by random chance. It has nothing to do with how good you are, it just gives a random second chance based on how important you are.
Adding extra high bonuses to your wild die also contributes to the bloat problem all games suffer at higher levels. How many people play level 5 campaigns compared to how many play level 15 campaigns? High level games always sound fun in theory, but we all know they tend to become ridiculously bogged down in bookkeeping, and that single character actions can take hours to resolve at the tabletop. In addition to this, we all know that the game becomes top-heavy, bloated, and often becomes hard to impart a feeling of any real challenge, as the characters are so powerful, very little can significantly affect them. Why intentionally build a system into the game where the people who are already the most powerful end up even more powerful when compared to all the normal ranks of characters? Bonuses on your d12 already have benefits; past +3 you have no normal chance of failure; a static bonus has no chance of giving you only partial benefit the way a dice increase does. If a d12 changed to a d20, you could still roll a 1. Every time the die increases, your chance of Acing also falls. With a d12, it’s ~8%, with a d20, it would be 5%. On a d30, it would fall to 3.33% Not so with a static bonus. It stays 8%. Therefore, you are already being rewarded for getting bonuses above d12, why potentially unbalance things further by compounding that advantage with a feature no one else gets. That is basically why adding that bonus to the Wild die makes no sense.
So far, the only reason I can see why it would even be considered is because at one point, one developer said so.