Rigor Rictus' Savage Rifts

Game Master LastNameOnEarth

I was going to create a gadget to use the healing spell, I had meant to state that.

But I think that will net needing to get an 8 from my techno-Wizardry.

That would probably work better, Thumper. However, to correct Storm Dragon above, Jace actually has 7 wounds, not 4. (Removing limits on maximum number of wounds was one of the few house rules I implemented - see the Campaign page for details).

Rifts also allows the rule where you can spend a Bennie to add an extra d6 to your roll, as opposed to rerolling, if you wish.

To build your device you would just need a normal success, but to use it to heal Jace, you'll need an 11.

Looking at the extra Rifts rules do we all have an extra Bennie because of my Joker?

Also until that Dragon Juicer is gone I am not even trying to heal Jace :)

Wah?!?! Dragon Juicer? What's That? Who said anything about a Dragon Juicer?

How heavily armored does the swordsman/mage(?) that killed Jace look BTW?

Not heavily, the armour is thick thick hide with spikes coming out of it, but even if it is tough, it can't be much tougher than any personal body armour (Heavy armour maxes at about +2 toughness, +8 Armour. It is probably lighter than than).

Oh, and to answer Thumper's question from earlier, yes, we are using all the standard Rifts variant rules, including Jokers Wild, so you would each get a Benny.

Just so everyone is aware, I may go dark for a few days. I go in for an operation tomorrow that I've been waiting for quite a while. Nothing immediately life threatening, but something that has to be addressed sooner or later. It's one of those situations where they don't know what it will be like until they get inside, so it is hard to predict what recovery will be like.

It involves the middle ear where all your balance and equilibrium are managed, so it is possible I might be doing nothing for a while but barfing and wishing the world would stop spinning. Or I might be fine, and back on in a day or two. I might end up not able to do anything besides go online, so who knows; maybe I'll be here all the time and constantly available.

If you don't hear from me for a few days, don't panic. I'll be back. If you don't ever hear from me again, then feel free to assume I'm one of those tragic cases of extreme complications during a minor surgery and spill a Dr. Pepper in my memory. Otherwise, talk to you in a few.

So hello everyone! With a new laptop, I have returned. I spoke with Rigor Rictus before he left with surgery and he let me know there was a space for me to join in if I could commit.

I have Anpetu all readily built and finished, I'm assuming that I'll be appearing after this combat happens. I'm super duper excited to be here and play with you all :D

Still alive.

Hurray!

Yay for still being alive! How'd the surgery go?

Good News

Great!

I didn't want to wish you good luck in case I jinxed it.

Woohoo! Congrats!

It went relatively well. Great in terms of the surgery itself, which went quite smoothly, not so great in terms of what they found. The removed a tumour from my left ear that had grown to fill the middle ear, and into the hollow spaces of the surrounding bone. Basicly as big as it could get before it would start pushing on my inner ear and brain. They sent it off for tests, but I'm told this kind of tumour is rarely malignant.

The ear bones had been completely subsumed by the tissue, and had to be removed. They did their best to clean them up, repair them, and put them back, but I'm deaf in that ear at present; hearing may slowly return, or not.

Good news was that they managed to remove the tumour without damaging the facial nerve, which apparently occupies the same path as the audio nerve, and that I don't seem to have any nausea at all, which I'm told is pretty unusual. Bad news (besides the deafness), is that the nerve that is responsible for taste ran through the tumour and had to be severed. So, I've lost most of my sense of taste. I have a bit left on one side of my tongue from the nerve that runs through the other ear. The doc said that in most cases, that nerve will take over and do double duty, and restore full taste to the whole tongue.

All in all, it went well, and I'm up and about which is better than expected, so I can't really complain. Glad to have it over with.

Damn dude, I'm glad that it is mostly good news. Here is to a speedy and healthy recovery, don't push yourself.

Congrats on your successful surgery, and well done to your surgical team!

That all sounds super scary, Rigor.

I think when my turn comes up I'm going to just try to grab the guy. Any help on how to make that most effective would be appreciated.

That's a Grapple - your initial roll is an opposed Fighting roll that does no damage, but you must have both hands free. If you Succeed, you've grabbed him - on a Raise, you've also Shaken him.

On your following actions, you can maintain the grapple with no roll (as long as you're not Shaken), or make an opposed Strength or Agility roll to damage him, doing your Strength in damage (with an extra d6 if you win with a Raise).

-drops a pin?-

You sure that's how Bennies work Rigor? Given the entire system is based on the assumption that you almost always know the target number you're aiming for, that seems unlikely.

I don't see it anywhere in the book either, unless it's in a section besides the one on Bennies.

Posting this to all my games: Sorry for the lack of posting. For the second time this year, I got the flu, and the internet is out at my house right now (where it has been for the last two days). It should hopefully be resolved by Monday, and if not I'm going to switch ISPs. Please feel free to bot me until I am back up and running, and if I am running your game, I haven't forgotten about you!

You sure that's how Bennies work Rigor? Given the entire system is based on the assumption that you almost always know the target number you're aiming for, that seems unlikely.

I don't see it anywhere in the book either, unless it's in a section besides the one on Bennies.

Reasonable question. It's just they way my group has always played, but it would not be the first time "cause always" turned out to be wrong. I will look it up.

So, my search hasnt turned anything up so far. I sent a message to my home group's rule's lawyer, and if anyone can find it, he can. Not like him to miss something like that if we've all been playing wrong this past year, but he has been resolved to turn over a new leaf this campaign and not powergame, so maybe he hasn't been paying attention.

Regardless, in the absence of documentation of what I thought was a standard rule, we'll play the proposed interpretation for now. However, if it turns out my group is totally wrong (or possibly borrowed it from another system by accident (we jump around systems a lot), then I may wish discuss using my assumed rule as a houserule. The idea of having Bennies as complete take-backs and do overs seems mindboggling powerful to me after how I've been playing all this time.

I concur that it does make them powerful but without that ruling, it makes them much weaker too. I'd never use them for anything outside of soaking damage or when I utterly fail a roll and know I'm going to.

I'm cool with it either way, Savage Worlds doesn't have really set and finished details so I'm fine with whatever :D

That is pretty much how we use them in our game, and it always seemed to fit the setting quite well. Often having them in reserve for that role is the only thing that has kept some of the group members alive. They get used a lot too; one team member has Great Luck and Common Bond, and usually uses up all 5 of his Bennies every other session or so trying to keep his team mates alive.

As well, it feels to me like if you always know the exact number youre shooting for, you kind of gain the ability to throw your bennies about willy-nilly, you never risk anything by using one (except that you might run out later); seems to me the game would lose a lot of its challenge that way.

For me, while i love hard mechanics, in the game I would much rather have challenge described as hard, really hard, or nigh impossible than simply know my TN is a 6, an 8, or a 12. Numbers are too meta for me and kind of kill the immersion.

Of course, play-styles vary and that may just be mine. I'm pretty easy going so if it turns out I'm the only one that thinks that way, I can adjust easy enough.

Altho the core rulebook does not explicitly state it, you *do* have to spend the Benny first, then re-roll - in the SW forums, the phrase "spend a Benny to re-roll" comes up a lot. ...time passes... Actually, the rulebook also says "spending Bennies and rerolling".

Anpetu, you might want to re-roll if your Trait die comes up a 1 (regardless of the Wild die), which would cause something bad to happen.

Bennies are MEANT to be powerful. You only get three per session for that reason.

They're meant to be that bit of heroic luck that keeps the game moving, turning a failure into a potential success.

Having to spend one before you know if you even failed makes them nigh useless, more apt to be wasted than anything. The implications of that would mean you'd need to spend a Benny before ever even rolling your first Shooting roll, for example, since you know your target is always 4. The same applies to literally every other roll in the game save Fighting rolls, which attack Parry instead, and damage rolls (which you can't Benny anyway).

The balancing factor is scarcity (three per session), and being your primary "life saver" ability; I see Bennies used to remove Shaken and roll Soak FAR more than any other purpose, because any time you re-roll that Fighting roll or whatever you're giving up an extra life.

An extra "hidden" balancer on top of that is GM Bennies that can be used on NPCs and Wild Card Bennies (every Wild Card NPC gets two); the advantage swings on both sides of the screen.

@Ace: Yes, you spend the Benny before you RE-roll for sure; you don't get to Nix the Benny just because the RE-roll failed. But you don't have to preemptively Benny before you even know what the FIRST roll is, which is what we're discussing.

As far as I know, Critical Failures only occur on double 1's. I hope flying isn't carried by the same rule as shooting into innocent bystanders.

As far as I know, Critical Failures only occur on double 1's. I hope flying isn't carried by the same rule as shooting into innocent bystanders.

There are a few exceptions where a 1 on the die (regardless of Wild Die) means a crit fail but they're usually explicitly stated; otherwise it is Snake Eyes that's bad. I'll look up and see if I can find any examples.

All right, looks like Gambling and Persuasion are the only skills with negative effects for rolling a 1 regardless of the Wild Die.

Sorry, I didn't catch that you were discussing whether or not to spend the Benny before the *first* roll (which you most definitely do NOT). That's so strange I didn't even consider it...

AFAIK, here's every roll where a 1 on the Trait die creates a problem (granted, many of them won't come up in this game, but...) :

Gambling skill : if cheating, character is caught
Persuasion skill : target's attitude drops by two steps
All Thumbs hindrance : rolling a 1 to use any mechanical or electronic device breaks it
Berserker edge : a 1 on the Fighting die means you hit a random adjacent target
Killer Instinct edge : if the skill die on an opposed roll is a 1, you can reroll it (but must keep the new one)
Chainsaw : a 1 on the Fighting die hits the user
Suppressive fire : a 1 on any target's Spirit die means they take damage
Firing Into Melee / Innocent Bystanders : on a miss, a 1 on the Shooting die (or 2 for full-auto, shotguns) means a random adjacent character IS hit, if the GM decides it's appropriate
AB/Magic : a 1 on the Spellcasting die means you are Shaken
AB/Psionics : a 1 on the Psionics die means you are Shaken
AB/Weird Science : a 1 on the activation die means the device malfunctions
Blind power : if a target rolls a 1 on the Agility die, they are Shaken and fully blind
Teleport power : a 1 on the casting die means the caster is Shaken and also takes 2d6 damage
Natural Healing for Extras : a 1 on the Vigor die means they die
Fear : a 1 on the Spirit die means you roll on the Fright table

Okay, I'm back, and perfectly alright with your assessment of my actions RR. I was considering doing something like that anyway.

I say, if you're going to count Wounds past 3, the Healing Power should be able to heal Wounds past 2.

I can see that argument, but it looks like the GM wants some chance of death. Now it is not my Character in the cross-hairs so it is easy for me to say let it ride.

It is likely even with Healing only able to restore 2 wounds a casting that Jace will be fully healed (Minus 1 arm). Without wounds past 3 there would not really have been any tension at all in the healing.

Is healing supposed to be tense?

Yeah it's kinda hard to outright die to in SW but being permanently crippled is really, really easy. That in many ways is worse.

I'd like things to be somewhere in the middle, where injuries are nerve wracking, but the healing not necessarily so. In a world with Greater Healing spells, there is even a decent chance Jace's arm can be reattached or regrown, and even if it isn't, synthetic and bionic limbs are relatively easily available (and a base-line model would be provided free of charge in this case, as the injury occurred in the line of duty).

I get what Thumper was saying about Healing 2 being ok, but I don't know that I think going above that is too overpowered either, as it still requires multiple raises to make it happen. I think I'm inclined to say yes to removing that limit on the Healing Power, and perhaps even full on hospital level medical care (but not field medicine).

The only concern I have is the D&D cheese factor of having the Fighter down to -5 HP and unconscious, right back to 120 HP and rearing to go after some Breath of Life action (or whatever). Even with the raises, I don't see that happening. Barring him invoking Blaze of Glory, Jace was out of this fight no matter what.

I'm open to opinions, but as mentioned, I'm thinking in favour of saying the Healing Power restores a Wound on a Success, and another wound with each raise.

In regards to the healing, I'm just worried that with two many sudden rolls that characters will be dropping like flies with no realistic way of bouncing back. A -7 is a gigantic penalty, my own dice are a d6 so I have to ace and then roll super well to even heal one. If he hadn't gotten a lucky roll, Jace would be dead.

I am fine with whatever the group wants but I know that Savage Worlds dice can swing suddenly and violently. Using Bennies to soak is to try and counteract that to a degree. The game will be definitely lethal as is, just potentially too lethal is what I'm worried about.

EDIT: I think that perhaps, to keep Greater Healing powerful, that we give it that it counts Wound penalties in half (Minimum: 0) and it can regenerate lost limbs?

Technically, if the target is Incapacitated, you must first roll to remove that, then make another roll to remove the Wound(s). However, healing Incapacitation also stops Bleeding Out (both as per HERE).

But a Healing roll to only stabilize Bleeding Out does NOT include the target's Wounds (as per HERE). If successful, the target is still Incapacitated, and has 3 Wounds.

However, in light of Rigor's not capping the Wounds at 3 when Incapacitated, I'd say we ignore the first rule and just have the Incapacitation disappear when the total Wounds gets down to 3. Don't forget, you can stay Incapacitated for a long time, as long as you made your Vigor roll (or someone stopped the Bleeding Out). You can even be conscious, you're just "too beaten, battered, or bruised to do anything useful".

And it's way to late to ret-con this, but for future reference, you cannot BOTH spend a Bennie to re-roll AND spend a Bennie for Extra Effort on the SAME roll.

Technically, if the target is Incapacitated, you must first roll to remove that, then make another roll to remove the Wound(s). However, healing Incapacitation also stops Bleeding Out (both as per HERE).

But a Healing roll to only stabilize Bleeding Out does NOT include the target's Wounds (as per HERE). If successful, the target is still Incapacitated, and has 3 Wounds.

However, in light of Rigor's not capping the Wounds at 3 when Incapacitated, I'd say we ignore the first rule and just have the Incapacitation disappear when the total Wounds gets down to 3. Don't forget, you can stay Incapacitated for a long time, as long as you made your Vigor roll (or someone stopped the Bleeding Out). You can even be conscious, you're just "too beaten, battered, or bruised to do anything useful".

This sounds like a good solution. 4+ wounds is incapacitated. 3 or less and you are conscious and able to act (albeit with penalties). Simple and straightforward.

Have we reached a concensus on whether raises on Healing can heal more than 2 wounds?

And it's way to late to ret-con this, but for future reference, you cannot BOTH spend a Bennie to re-roll AND spend a Bennie for Extra Effort on the SAME roll.

Did somebody do that? I knew that rule, but if it happened, I totally missed it.

I didn't even know there was an "Extra Effort" option for Bennies.

Extra Effort is a RIFTS thing (search the PDF for it), and Thumper did both while trying to heal Jace.

Guilty, I looked for the Extra effort rules, then just tried something.

I am posting this in all my games. I will be out of country from May 18th to May 27th with limited Internet access. I will try to keep up where I can, but make no promises that I can't keep. Game on and bot as needed, please!

So...are we still good here? Everyone around still?

ping

I think we're just waiting on Rigor.

Been slammed at work this week. Been too tired to update. I will make an effort to move us along soon.

It's cool, just good to make sure if we haven't accidentally put ourselves into a game of "post chicken". =)

What's that, where no one posts because you're waiting for the other guy to post first?

Exactly.