Of Kings and Commoners - Kingmaker AP

Game Master RPGGGM

Okay guys, I've updated the Party Loot page.

Right now the individual wealth amounts are (not counting starting gear):

Alia: 1634
Celyne: 784
Numalar: 615
Posh: 812
Scarlet: 1652
Zokon: 1267

Party Total: 6764
Party Average: 1127.33

Just curious where you got that 784 party treasure for Celyne from... the only thing she's got is masterwork studded leather armor... which isn't 784 gp worth (and the wand of cure light which is party treasure)

I looked at the loot list and wasn't even aware of the mw dagger... but a lot of those items are consumables.... I thought we were not counting consumables.

Luna is included...eg. her barding. Nums loot page does list individual claims. If you mean to challenge them, it may help to point out what you don't agree with.
Also, note that consumables have no value attached, there.

Just curious where you got that 784 party treasure for Celyne from... the only thing she's got is masterwork studded leather armor... which isn't 784 gp worth (and the wand of cure light which is party treasure)

I looked at the loot list and wasn't even aware of the mw dagger... but a lot of those items are consumables.... I thought we were not counting consumables.

This is from the loot page under "Individual claims":

* The masterwork dagger you got from Tor and Grogan and that lot. I see you never added it to your sheet.
* The horse was from the bandits in the very first encounter.
* The Barding is worn by Luna and was bought in Restov.

Numalar also has a masterwork dagger as part of his loot but will be selling it when he is somewhere that he can do so. You are welcome to sell your dagger too. If you did your total would drop to 482.

If people prefer, I could list items by their sell value instead of their retail price. There is less distortion when selling off unwanted items that way, though buying things "off the rack" reduces our total wealth if you count things this way. The crafting cost and the sell price are normally the same though (except for the cost or masterwork items used as a base).

I actually prefer going by sell price but we decided to go by retail value when we started the loot list. Obviously that can change if people want.

I prefer as-is, with retail value.
It simply feels "more right", besides, sale value in almost all cases would simply be half whats listed, anyway, so conversion is easy.

But a.: we see at first glance how close we are to our recommended WBL, and can check for stuff filling the gap in the SRD by retail price, too(not making a conversion/recalculation necessary).
And b.: if we are crafting things, that actually "generates" value, as it should be with craftsmanship, rather than the other way round, where you "lose" value if you are not crafting.
It's a psychological factor that would push people towards crafting, which may, in pathfinder, mess with our WBL due to the large amounts of downtime at our disposal.

And c.: no need to re-do the prices, plus they are identical to what people have on their own sheets.

Huh, I'm the big spender? Masterwork equipment really adds up.

Huh, I'm the big spender? Masterwork equipment really adds up.

At our level, yes it does. A few levels from now though a masterwork item will be fairly trivial.

I probably should give back the Rapier then as I don't need it and and a mw mace..

I probably should give back the Rapier then as I don't need it and and a mw mace..

You don't have a problem dealing piercing damage so I can see how the rapier would be redundant now.

Funny though - I now realize I didn't have the rapier on your list. I remember it, and I see the event where you got it on the list under "shopping", but I missed that one in the 'individual claims'. I'll update shortly.

We can dump some stuff when we get back to Oleg's. Unless you want to swap things with someone else. Scarlet has a MW cold iron longsword and a MW battleaxe. Maybe she would like a rapier instead of one of those? She probably doesn't need two primary slashing weapons. Scarlet?

We can dump some stuff when we get back to Oleg's. Unless you want to swap things with someone else. Scarlet has a MW cold iron longsword and a MW battleaxe. Maybe she would like a rapier instead of one of those? She probably doesn't need two primary slashing weapons. Scarlet?

I can sell the battleaxe when we get back to Oleg's. I don't have good access to piercing melee weapons, so this will help.

"When all else fails, use fire."

Fire, and lots of it!

That's the plan!

Since he is not really busy crafting anything as of now, unless I missed that, I would like to commission a Campfire Bead from Numalar.

It's a convenience item, certainly, but one worthwhile for wilderness adventures.
It would be great if we could get it done from the party pool but I would also commission it alone, if nobody else wants to chip in.
It will cost 360 GP to make, so if we split the costs fully, that would be 60 GP per person...not really expensive for all the convenience, and the knowledge you never need to go gather firewood again(especially after a rainy day).

(I know mechanically it would be cheaper for a LONG time to get a caravan of 10 donkeys loaded with firewood, and replenish the firewood every time we return to civilization, but honestly, that does not feel immersive/right-

Since he is not really busy crafting anything as of now, unless I missed that, I would like to commission a Campfire Bead from Numalar.

Numalar does have crafting plans, but they have to wait until he gets crafting supplies to craft with. Which is why I wanted to return to Oleg's - I wanted to get started. But I got outvoted there.

A campfire bead is not a bad idea, but until we get some materials nothing is going to happen.

Oh, no hurries, we can take our time. It will hardly be the last voyage into wilderness we do.

I figured with the relatively low price, we may either gather it from Naleksa, or find whatever is needed in a banking-way.
Technically, I figure it will need lots of wood, the bead, the produce flame-spell, and a mc-guffin to lift the price. *shrug* Unless the bead is worth 350 GP.

But no worries, as said, do your backlog, after we visit Oleg after we finish our round trip. No hurry, we'll have spring soon, then summer, and it will mostly be a convenience item then, rather than truly helpful. And if we manage to level again before going back, it will be that much less impactful on our wealth-by-level ;)

The first thing I planned was some minor skill-enhancing items.

There is a formula for calculating the price for items based on bonuses. So an item that grants +1 to a skill would cost 1/25th of an item that gives +5 (like eyes of the eagle).

The very first one I wanted to do is a minor version of gloves of elvenkind since they grant a spellcraft bonus, which helps me make other magic items.

FYI since I have produce flame and the CL of a campfire bead is 1, the DC for Numalar to make one is 6, which is no problem. I could go twice as fast with a DC of 11 which is still no problem, though that only matters if I am crafting while travelling, since you must always spend at least 1 day.

Your FYI: I know. That's why I suggested it.

@Skill-enhancers: Sure, I like them, too. As long as we don't go overboard. They are priced far too cheap for their effect, for my taste.(+10 item is just 10k gold - which, for level-adequate DC's of 50% chance basically guarantees success for trained skills)

They are priced far too cheap for their effect, for my taste.(+10 item is just 10k gold - which, for level-adequate DC's of 50% chance basically guarantees success for trained skills)

I would normally assume that +5 is the allowable maximum unless told otherwise, since there are lots of existing items that grant +5 but hardly any that grant +10. The first step when designing a new magic item is to compare it to existing ones.

Ring of chameleon power gives an easy +10 stealth.
Mask of stony demeanour +10 on bluff...
Greater Shadow armor gives +15-.
Salve of Slipperyness a +20 on escape artist, a use-activated item of glibness +20 bluff...

I THINK there was a +10 maximum on skill items in the earlier editions, but pathfinder does not list one AFAIK.

It's sensible to limit oneself to the upper end of whats common, but I would wholeheartedly support a +5 maximum.

And Stuff like Circlet of Persuasion breaks pricing, by giving +3(worth 900) on 7 skills(=>6300, not accounting for stacking multiple abilities on a single item), for 4500, including raw charisma-checks, and stacking with enhancement boni to charisma.

Matter of fact, I would be fine with completely getting rid of "always-on" skill bonus items.

Also: The only proper reference I found is on d20 Epic items, and calls out "enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30." and "market price above 200,000 gp" as factors for what enters "epic" territory(such as weapons or armor with higher than +5 bonus, deflection or resistance boni over +5, spell levels over 9...)

Celyne wrote:

Just curious where you got that 784 party treasure for Celyne from... the only thing she's got is masterwork studded leather armor... which isn't 784 gp worth (and the wand of cure light which is party treasure)

I looked at the loot list and wasn't even aware of the mw dagger... but a lot of those items are consumables.... I thought we were not counting consumables.

This is from the loot page under "Individual claims":

Celyne:
Stag Amulet 20 gp
1x Light Horse (with bridle and saddle) 87gp
MW Studded Leather 175 gp
MW Studded Leather Barding 200 gp
Masterwork dagger 302 gp
10x Masterwork Crossbow Bolts
10 cold iron bolts
silver weapon blanch
Value: 784

* The masterwork dagger you got from Tor and Grogan and that lot. I see you never added it to your sheet.
* The horse was from the bandits in the very first encounter.
* The Barding is worn by Luna and was bought in Restov.

Numalar also has a masterwork dagger as part of his loot but will be selling it when he is somewhere that he can do so. You are welcome to sell your dagger too. If you did your total would drop to 482.

There's a loot page?

Mind linking me, can't seem to find it and I'm putting the finishing touches on touching up Posh after losing all my files along with my herolab files.

@Posh: Party Loot Link, right up there next to Tactical Map Folio, at the top of the page.

It was also linked earlier, or you can access it via Numalar's aliases.

@Posh: Party Loot Link, right up there next to Tactical Map Folio, at the top of the page.

Yeah, it's one of the campaign links.

FYI though it doesn't include your starting gear. I never bothered to look at any of that stuff.

Sorry about the weekend. Super busy. I'll be pushin' ahead tonight.

No worries here. Judging from most of my games, plenty of people seem busy in the time before christmas, so...no hurry, I guess.

Christmas Schedule:
FYI guys, I should be able to post regularly up to the night of the 22nd.

Friday the 23rd I am unlikely to be able to make any posts, and possibly the 24th as well.

The 25th I will check in briefly but won't be surprised if there is nothing going on. After that I should be able to post normally.

Likewise. This whole week is shaping up to be a tough one, though next I'll be off.

Sorry about the weekend. Super busy. I'll be pushin' ahead tonight.

Understandable...still don't know what I'm going to do at CONtingency...not booked any games and no idea how I'll get there, lol.

So, are we going to check out the encampment or not? Scarlet can get over there and take a look thanks to her speed and nonlethal damage doesn't look too bad from last night.

Also, are we going to make a morning fire or not? Sounds like anyone on fire duty will miss pre-dawn scouting duty, and it may alarm the encampment. Scarlet doesn't care if their position is given away, who knows if they've scouted us?

Check out the encampment: Yea 1, Nay 0
Start a fire: Yea 1, Nay 0.

Check out encampment: Yea 2, Nay 0
Start a fire: Yea 1, Nay 1
(Conditional yea if we delay starting the fire to give the scouts a headstart...otherwise we may pass by each other.)

Check out encampment: Yea 3, Nay 0
Start a fire: Yea 2, Nay 1
(Conditional yea if we delay starting the fire to give the scouts a headstart...otherwise we may pass by each other. I agree)

if we are going to check out the encampment, I'd say nay to our own fire for now... let the scouts do their job before we attract the attention of the others, so yea to the scouts, nay to the fire (for now)

So, that's a total of:

Check out the encampment: Yea 4, Nay 0
Start a fire: Yea 2, Nay 2.

Sounds like we will check the encampment.

Don't really have time to post much now, but... Merry Christmas, to all those of you that celebrate!

If not Christmas, then whatever you might be celebrating, hope it's great!

if we are going to check out the encampment, I'd say nay to our own fire for now... let the scouts do their job before we attract the attention of the others, so yea to the scouts, nay to the fire (for now)

Normally I would say that I would want to be at full strength when going into an encounter, but nonlethal damage isn't that bad. So I agree with Celyne.

It's not as far as I originally thought (had to reread the description) so I don't mind the detour.

So, that's a total of:

Check out the encampment: Yea 4, Nay 0
Start a fire: Yea 2, Nay 2.

Sounds like we will check the encampment.

So that makes it:

yea for checking out encampment and nay to the fire.

Sounds like we're split on starting the fire.

How about the scouts run ahead, and then we wait a few before starting the fire?
Alternatively we see if there is a way to start the fire without creating tons of smoke (Survival check?)

We are split, but its' actually 2:2, with 2 votes conditional on giving the scouts a headstart.

So we can EITHER split the party, with someone setting up a fire sometime after the scouts left, at our camp, at 4 yeah, 2 no votes for fire.

Or we can stick together, and investigate the other camp as a group...with no one left behind, we'd need to start the fire before going there, which is denied at a 2 yeah, 4 nay vote.

Considering the player wisdom of "never split the party" and the fact single-person stealthyness take a ton of time on pbp, I would assume that we don't split up and simply head on over, to honor the vote and move things along.

I'll go with Alia's notion with the scouts ranging slightly ahead

Sorry all sudden holiday .. posting may be spotty for a couple days

I can wait for the fire. But those without darkvision will need some light to approach. I have darkvision but Sir Didymus doesn't.

Which makes it sound like Scarlet has to scout on her own. I don't especially like the risk there.

I'm ok with the rest of us coming up behind; Naleksa can work on the fire while we are gone. But if we are carrying torches or other lights how do we avoid the people at the campfire from seeing the rest of us?

If needed I can start dropping snapdragon fireworks from up to 560 feet away. But the rest of you probably would like to be closer. Message has a range of 130 feet for me, if that is an issue.

And your dog does not need it.

Scarlet, and anyone with low-light vision taller than 4-foot can make the trip before true dawn

He has low-light vision. And while he is not technically taller than 4 foot, his speed should be sufficient.

I have low-light, Celyne has low-light, your dog has low-light, Luna has low-light, Scarlet has Darkvision.

Now, I know it's certainly possible for 2 non-overweight people to ride a distance on a horse together. So maybe Posh could ride with you.

If not: Horses have low-light vision, too. So to take care of Zokon, we could simply sit him on a horse, then have Celyne lead the horse, on foot. (and if your dog can't carry posh in addition to you, the horse most certainly can carry posh and zokon).
He(they) can dismount for the final stretch.

Voilâ, everybody is over before "true dawn". No lights, torches or otherwise needed. How close we want to get would likely depend on what we see, and what the camp looks like. If they managed a fire and spent the night, it may be a sheltered/covered area that you can't properly target from range. Or it may be a ruined house in the middle of a grassy meadow where they can certainly see us approach.
That said: We have no idea if those are enemies...so while I understand the tactical consideration, I would not start dropping explosions on them before we verified that they are hostile...otherwise we are the bandits and need to go get ourselves hanged ;)
(I know you added "if needed" anyway but lets keep our view and, consequently, options open for now)

Seems I have connection where im at.

Aye, standing back. I tried to find something "meaningful" to post, but could not work something out.

Alia has a miserable Bluff Check, getting towards high ground would not really benefit her, Stealthing closer after we're talking could cut the talks short.
And simply stepping out and announcing her presence for the sake of announcing her presence seemed the least tactically sound decision.

But still, one thing to consider: I took the Aspis Consortiums Coins. Since Celyne pretty much destroyed their illusion of "we came to join up with the Staglord", we could substitute another criminal organization as our employees, IF we wish to learn more/stay on talking terms, for the time being.

sorry , guess I didn't realize we were gonna pass ourselves off as recruits... could still happen, they will just have to convince us of the stag lord's viability before we make the request to join maybe?

Nothing says you have to pass yourselves off as anything. Just remember the old adage, if you ain't with us... you're probably lost, foolish, and therefore possible eas prey.

But still, one thing to consider: I took the Aspis Consortiums Coins. Since Celyne pretty much destroyed their illusion of "we came to join up with the Staglord", we could substitute another criminal organization as our employees, IF we wish to learn more/stay on talking terms, for the time being.

The Aspis Consortium is not generally considered a criminal organization, just ruthless merchants.

No worries, Celyne...I worded that wrongly :)
I just meant the fact we are not locals gave them pause, since Staggie seems to be a big deal around here.

@GM/Aspis...: Aye, now give me one example of a internationally operating mercantile group of ruthless merchants that does NOT fit the definition for "criminal organization" ^_^

More seriously: Thanks for setting my record straight on them. Regardless, the idea should work, IF we want. They may not want to mess with Aspis. And gladly tell us where to find Staggie, so we can work out a deal, once his army has taken control of the lands.
(Basically, the reason I saw for trying to be all friendly with them...get some intel out of them now while they are not hostile, rather than hope they don't lie to us later)

Well, it is possible that we could pull off a "no, actually we're with the Stag Lord - we were just testing you" bluff. The pendants we have might help.

But I didn't pull mine out yet, because I figure that the Stag Lord's "organization" probably isn't very big, and the odds are good that one bearer of a pendant knows all the others. Which would make the bluff, not impossible... but difficult.

I definitely want to find out what the Stag Lord wants with an army though. You don't need an army to govern an uninhabited territory, and the residents that are in the area seem likely to leave if the Stag Lord's antics are kept up.

Yeah, say a word, and I'll hand Posh an Aspis-Coin and he can try and bluff them.

If we're pretending to be looking to cut a deal with the Stag Lord(something like, we are the only ones who can do shipments unmolested, and he gets a cut of the increased profits because of the high margins we can place on the goods), that should be believable(as per modus operandi of Aspis), allow us plenty of questions, and let us learn where to find the Stag Lord...not that I'd recommend going there right now, mind you...but the information would be valuable to have regardless-.

And we're back from whatever happened to the Paizo website!

*Takes off sunglasses*
I finished hacking the internet. The firewall has been extinguished.

It was you all along? I want answers, Scarlet! I want the truth!
Be honest, are you U.N. Owen?