Motteditor's Ironwall Gap Must Hold PBP (Inactive)

Game Master motteditor

I will happily change my character submission to

Ilamin Sha-Tomas, Cleric of the Dawnbringer

I can modify Matilda to include a second extra channel feat, that would give her 12 lay on hands (or 6 channels) all at 2d6. Not great, but it's a little healing for the party. Or I can make that second feat greater mercy so she can heal 3d6 on herself as a swift action 8 times a day.

Dyalg is finished, except for weapons, armor, and assorted gear. As an oracle he has some healing. I also chose the Leadership feat and his cohort is a cleric for some additional healing capabilities.

Checking in. I'll have Drake's equipment sorted out and a general background posted tonight.

Illa, no problem.

Thanks, p33j.

Also, just realized I have a wedding to go to Sunday, and I don't know when I'll get back. Which means I'll probably end up picking very early Sunday (as in 1 a.m.-ish), so any characters should be in by Saturday evening (EST). Remember, I don't need character sheets yet, just enough so I have some idea what kind of character you want to play.

I'll check in here with a few details about my proposed character. I have a penchant for characters that venture off the beaten path a little, but I try not to compromise functionality too much while achieving my preferred level of quirkiness.

This character is one designed to exhibit a lot of personality, and to be used in concert with another player's character, hopefully someone who also has an orc vendetta. If chosen, I'll work with another willing player to integrate their background stories.

Graah! Goblin Archer (Monkey-Goblin Ranger)
Monkey Goblin is a race from the Inner Sea Bestiary; 10 RP points, just like the regular Goblin, and pretty much equivalent. They are tree dwelling goblins native to the tropical rainforests of the southern seas.

Graahfaanaphaph was away from the hometree when the orcs attacked. Moving swift and sudden, they swept in, lighting trees afire, and felling trees within the settlement to disrupt defences. Some of their scouts spotted Graah! and shot him down from his tree with arrows. Injured but not dead, he could only watch as the rest of his village burned and his tribe was slaughtered. Strangely enough, heroes on the trail of the orcs for reasons of their own caught up with the party shortly after. The orcs were settled down by then, revelling in their spoils and bloated from stomachs full of goblin meat. When the heroes attacked, Graah! saw his chance and wrestled his injured body to its feet. Picking up a fallen goblin bow, he began to send arrow after arrow into the startled orcs. One of the heroes stood near the bloody little creature. Having no idea what to make of the little monster joining in the fight, he resisted his urge to put it down. After the battle was finished, having no living kin, the creature followed the heroes as they continued on, sleeping just outside their camps, and following just a bit behind. Gradually he became a fixture of the group, and his presence was accepted, or at least tolerated and ignored. Once the next few battles occured, and the little thing was able to demonstrate his metal and talent, and he was accepted into the team, though he was probably viewed more as a pet or mascot at first, and only later as a full member.

Graah! is a strange race to be keeping company with humans, but I envision him having a Han/Chewbacca relationship with his partner, complete with bickering, in-fighting, and carrying on all their conversations in two languages, each speaking only his native tongues, but with iron-clad loyalty when the chips are down. Personality wise, he is a combination of Chewie, and given his size and spunk, Stitch from Lilo and Stitch fame. From a race of slavering evil killing machines, he has since overcome, or at least moderated, many of his baser instincts, but still takes a lot of joy from action and excitement, and is never one to turn down violence as a solution to problems. He is steadfastly loyal to his friend, whom he views as a mentor, or even in a Master/Servant kind of way. He holds a life debt to his companion(s), and has sworn (to himself anyway) to follow him and aid in his struggles no matter what.

Note: If this entry is too unconventional for your tastes mott, let me know right away and I'll come up with a more traditional archer before the deadline tomorrow.

No, that works, Rigor. I'm playing a goblin in a game and it's a blast. He's one of my favorite PCs.

Orne (working name) was liberated along with his mother from an orc tribe by a company of humans. His mother is a druidess, and after helping heal the leader of the company who'd become injured, fell in love. The feelings were reciprocated.

Orne grew long and lithe, more like his adopted father than his biological orc sire. Standing a hand over 6 feet, he's just exceeded his father's height.

As much as they worked to integrate their half-breed son, his blunt honesty and others' human prejudice kept him an outsider. His mother taught him nature, and his father taught him to defend himself out of necessity.

The boy was agile, blessed with a natural predatory grace and a keen eye.

In an effort to give himself some relief from local pressures, he's taken to acting as a guide/guard/messenger for a nominal fee to any who need the service.

His father is a well respected local officer, so no one dares outward hostilities toward the "boy".

Orne
NG Half-Orc Urban Ranger 7 (Crossbow Style) Age 17
Stats - 12, 20, 14, 11, 13, 7

Weapon: over-sized Heavy Crossbow (w/Gravity Bow) for 3d8
Armor: Mithral Chain Shirt

Favored Enemy - Orc +4, Human +2

Not sure what else you might need.

Question 1: How would you do favored community?
Question 2: How do you feel about Dervish Dance (scimitar feat)?

Giovanni Valariano

Born to Varisians trapped in Drumas through abusive negotiations and the underhanded efforts of the Mercenary League supporting their masters, left Giovanni with a problem. His parents taught him of his heritage, but the power in Drumas is far too one-sided, and a few Scarzani are left with little opportunity to improve things for themselves and their families.

Giovanni ended up taking the path that seemed to provide the greatest opportunity for people who do not follow the Prophecies. He joined the Mercenary League. The League assigned him internal caravan guard duties, not trusting him out of the country, and trained him primarily in the use of non-lethal force, since his primary opponents would be Drumas citizens who should be provided the opportunity to pay their fines.

After several years of being a perfect caravan guard, they assigned Giovanni to protect an external shipment. Everyone, Giovanni included, was surprised when he recognized a Scarzani greeting and request for assistance flashed by one of the people raiding his caravan. Without really understanding why, let alone thinking about it, Giovanni turned on his fellow mercenaries, and found himself with the Scarzani.

It didn't take long for him to realize, however, that he didn't see the world the same the Scarzani do, and he went looking for other options, other opportunities. That was how he met the group of adventurers now working their way to Ironwall Gap.

Human (Varisian) Fighter (no archetype) 7
Exotic Weapon: Spiked Chain
Weapon Finesse
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Improved Trip
Improved Disarm
Improved Reposition
Greater Trip
Greater Disarm

And I think that tells you quite a lot about how he fights. Especially since the FAQ says Trip weapons also provide their bonus on Reposition checks. <g>

If you think Bladed Scarves belong in a weapon group, I would be happy to swap his exotic weapon proficiency out to the far more Varisian flavored device. As the Balded Scarf wasn't included in the Ulitmate Equipment book, it hasn't officially been added to any groups as far as I am aware.

@hustonj - not sure of your intended stats regarding Str & Dex. Looks Dex heavy because of the weapon finesse.

If that is the case, I think you'll need the Agile Maneuvers, to apply Dex to CMB (instead of Str).

Could be wrong.

I'd suggest trying that same/similar build with a Lore Warden, better CMB bonuses. 7th level is where they get sweet. Threatening Defender trait may work as well.

Actually, if you read the full text for both CMB and Weapon Finesse, you'll see that your assumption is wrong. The PRD text on CMB specifically notes that a CMB check IS an Attack Roll. Weapon Finesse says when you use any of the appropriate weapons you use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for your Attack Rolls. 1+1=2 For the final bit, Agile Maneuvers says to use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier when you calculate your CMB, but provides no limits or exceptions. You've apparently assumed that I care how his CMB is calculated if the character finds himself forced to use a Greatsword.

Long term, the Weapon Training numbers and Weapon Focus numbers from a pure fighter are hard to beat, since they apply to CMB checks (and CMD checks against those weapons). So, by spending 2 of a human fighter's 23 feats, he gets an additional non-magical +6 with his primary weapon and +4 with related weapons that applies to all attacks, normal or maneuver, the CMD on maneuvers against those weapons, and the +4 also applies to all damage dealt with that weapon family. MOST archetypes trade that bonus away for something far more limited, but of a similar size.

People LOVE the archetypes, but, honestly, most of the fighter archetypes provide very small and very occasional bonuses compared to how many of the Fighter class core bonuses they strip. The "free" Combat Expertise comes at the cost of the only good Will save benefit the Fighter class gets. Now, the Lore Warden, in typical cruft style, replaces each level of Armor Mastery with something more powerful than any single level or Armor Mastery is by itself, so the class is quite a power-climb overall, though it does force a character who could be in heavy armor into light armor. Remember, the Dex limit imposed by armor applies to the AC application of Dex, not to all uses of Dex. Then, of course, the Lore Warden's 19th level ability is ALMOST eliminated by the 20th level core Fighter class ability. So much so that it is almost insulting to provide the one that is there. Then, there's also the issue that the character write-up already in place provides no reason or justification for the character to have learned a Pathfinder-specific archetype. He has no ties to the Pathfinders at all.

You might have noticed my comment about using a Bladed Scarf instead of a Spiked Cain. It is a sub-optimal mechanics choice (even if it is considered part of a weapons group) to do so, but it fits the write-up. A mechanics concept may be the basis for a character, but the details of the character need to tie into the write-up.

I am quite capable of building mechanical monsters that can do something unbelievably well. That stopped being fun to play well over a decade ago. Now I TRY to play somebody with a few specific strengths and preconceptions, and just see what happens. Now, if I was focused exclusively on building the "most powerful" version of this character that I could, a Lore Warden with Agile Maneuvers instead of Weapon Finesse and using one of the Eastern exotic weapons from the flails group that provides reach is further down that path. Your mileage may vary.

Was just a suggestion, was trying to help.

I was referring to:

Performing a Combat Maneuver:

When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

==========================

Attack Bonus (normal): BAB + STR Bonus for melee attacks.

Just one player's interpretation.

From your rules quote, second paragraph, 5th sentence. "Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll."

That combines perfectly with the Weapon Finesse definition that tells you to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with the specific list of finessable weapons.

If a CMB check is an Attack Roll and Weapon Finesse applies to Attack Rolls with finessable weapons, then Weapon Finesse applies to CMB checks with finessable weapons.

I think most of us learned to call that simple bit of logic the transitive property when we took algebra as kids.

Aristotelian Logic and transitive properties, yes.

But, we also learned about the "given".

"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus."

That given is itself what is being modified.

The given says to use the CMB.

The CMB definition says it is an attack roll.

Weapon Finesse changes which modifier you use when calculating an attack roll.

Again, the difference between Weapon Finesse and Agile Maneuvers is fairly simple.

Weapon Finesse always applies when using weapons that meet specific conditions (light weapons or weapons which self-identify as finessable), but never beyond there.

Agile Maneuvers always applies when calculating CMB, but never beyond there.

Weapon Finesse works with a dagger, but not a great sword. Agile Maneuvers doesn't care what the weapon is. They serve different purposes, but those purposes do overlap somewhat.

Late, but hopefully not too late...

Garis Tannerson grew up in Alkenstar, and like many young boys idolized the heroic gunslinging shieldmarshals that wandered the Grand Duchy and kept order and peace in the long empty stretches of the desert near the Mana Wastes. Unlike many other boys, though, Garis never lost that image, and he never hesitated in seeking out the training to become a marshal when he grew up. For twenty years, Garis rode the hinterlands of Alkenstar, putting down wasteland mutants and bandit raiders alike with the same steely calm and merciless aim.

Eventually, though, the job began to wear on him. He saw too many youths killed by outlawry or simple happenstance, lost too many friends to the dangers of the Mana Wastes or the blades, arrows or bullets of ruthless criminals. He'd never found a wife or had a family, never had a moment's peace to enjoy the fruits of his work protecting the people of the Grand Duchy. He decided it was time to retire. Working through agents and correspondence, Garis has converted his years of saved pay into a tidy homestead a long, long way from Alkenstar. He's on his way there now. Just one more week of travel, and he can put the struggles of his past behind him forever...

Mechanically, Garis is a LG human cavalier (luring cavalier/musketeer) 6 / shieldmarshal 1. Shieldmarshal of course is from Paths of Prestige (and can be found here); Garis also is a member of the Order of the Land, a cavalier order from Knights of the Inner Sea that can be found online here. He will be middle-aged, but that's basically flavor - his stats will be 20 point buy regardless. I've got the numbers rough-sketched out in my head, but I haven't had a chance to write them up fully just yet.

I could be wrong. No issues here.

Looks like the designers agree with you! Basically, for Maneuvers that use weapons, finessable weapons (if you have the feat) effectively apply Dex to CMB. In FAQ, I think.

Learn something new, everyday.

Cheers.

You did get me playing around more, and I came up with a Lore Warden 4/Maneuver Master 3 multiclass that has the same CMB/CMD as a no-archetype Fighter, but more Improved Combat Maneuver feats, the ability to respond to any of those same sort of attacks with an AoO, faster movement, and actually threatens both reach and adjacent targets.

Interesting build.

Sure, it fails to connect with the maneuvers as easily as a pure Lore Warden, but the build is more flexible. That's kind of nice, actually.

Not enough Lore Warden levels to gain access to Weapon Training, double the CMB/CMD bonus or gain the Knowledge benefit, but provides some interesting alternate abilities instead.

REAL easy to min/max attributes on that build, though, since it essentially dependent on only 2 attributes, Dex and Wis (though there are obvious benefits to better scores in Str, Con, and Int).

I am far more likely to use that build than a pure Lore Warden, but, again, a Lore Warden (at any level) doesn't really work with the background I presented. The Maneuver Master would be a pretty big leap on that point, too.

Certainly is an interesting build, though.

motteditor do you need any more information from me?

just wanting to ensure i am a viable candidate, this one shot looks pretty fun.

I think I'm good. Turns out I'm exhausted tonight, so I'm going to make the picks in the morning, before leaving for the wedding. (At which point, we can get characters finalized and then get started Monday, when I'm not working so should have plenty of time to update a lot and get us off to a fast start.)

OK, guys, you've made it hard for me, but I think I'm going to pick the following, which I hope will be a fun group:

Dylag Lemseth
Tenro
Corvus
garabott*
Graah!

* I realize Garabott may feel like an odd choice since he didn't post much of a character. I ran him in a previous game before he had to leave the boards for a while, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt about having a fun character based on that experience. Just figured I owed it to you all to explain my reasoning, since I'm sure I'd be annoyed with a GM who picked someone that didn't have a writeup instead of my character.

My apologies to those I didn't pick; I know that stinks. It was a difficult choice, but I think this'll be a fun set of characters that should make for an interesting adventure.

For the five of you, I'll create a discussion thread. Please let me know when your character is finalized and I'll give it a look over. I'm out of town for a wedding this evening, but hopefully we can get started by Monday or Tuesday.

Cool! Have a fun time, I'll be lurking interestedly!

Thanks for the invite; I'll check in on the discussion forum soon!

Can't wait for the start, I'll get my alias up ASAP.

Enjoy yourselves! That's why we play this silly game, right?

I will have my character up by monday night.

Have fun, guys. ^^

Thank you for selecting me. I'll be working on choosing gear and creating a cohort.