Getting Dexterity to anything is going to be absolutely wasteful for me.
My Strength is going to be ungodly high, hopefully.
Uh, Deadly Agility is specifically 1x Dex to damage (though admittedly doesn't get reduced on your offhand if you're TWFing, but getting full attacks to take advantage of that isn't all that easy). It's just Slashing Grace or Dervish Dance without being stupidly restricted.
If you're TWFing, Deadly Agility is free Double Slice and Slashing Grace with multiple weapons. It's one of the "Path of War turns a bunch of feats into a single feat" that I dislike. There are balance reasons for this; any character who full attacks (which should be most martials) gets their damage output pumped up past that of any other normal attacker without fancy class-tricks. If you stick it on a throwing build, you get +Dex to damage with a ranged weapon, which is absurdly powerful.
Deadly Agility's not super broken if you use it for the right purpose (Dex to damage with a single wepaon) but because nothing in PoW appears to have been playtested, it's absurdly overpowered on the wrong build.
Honestly, how can you guys look at martials that are actually decent at their jobs and think "Man, this is completely unreasonable!" But then turn around and handwave Wizards and such? It's beyond me.
Because no wizard will ever approach the damage output or instant-victory capability of a dedicated martial character with full BAB. Of course, since Path of War created a bunch of full-casters with full BAB on top of martial abilities at least as powerful as any non-casting martial class, things go out the window with that.
I have a question about the mongrelman race.
For the race types, do they only qualify for feats and traits, or also for archetypes, weapon proficiencies, racial traits. Can the race types chosen be ones not in your list? Can I have elf as one of my race types and then cast some of the elf only spells for example, and have orc and qualify for Witchdoctor?
I have a question about the mongrelman race.
For the race types, do they only qualify for feats and traits, or also for archetypes, weapon proficiencies, racial traits. Can the race types chosen be ones not in your list? Can I have elf as one of my race types and then cast some of the elf only spells for example, and have orc and qualify for Witchdoctor?
Yes you can qualify for other things. You can select elf, or other races. Yes to your example.
Is there a feat that lets you use DEX instead of STR for CMB?Weapon Finesse can also handle it for all the ones most people care about (trip, disarm, drag, reposition).
So in a case where i have significantly higher DEX than STR, taking weapon finesse gives me an advantage with disarm? Is this because it is an attack roll instead of a CMB roll?
I'm thinking now...
I might just take Agile Maneuvers anyway, just because we get so many feats and i almost never make room in any builds for maneuvers. I think Disarm, Dirty Trick, and Steal are good for this character.
Weapon Finesse only applies to things that you use your weapon for. So... I extend that to some dirty tricks, sunder (though you tend to need strength to sunder), and the like, when I DM. I'm honestly not even sure of the real list without looking it up. :)
You can use dexterity for CMB maneuvers if you have weapon finesse and the maneuver uses a weapon, like trip or disarm. You need agile maneuvers to use dexterity on all combat mabpneuvers, not just ones that utilize a weapon.
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Yeah, Weapon Finesse lets you do combat maneuvers with any weapon you're using to perform the maneuver. Agile Maneuvers would, interestingly, let you do something weird like Overrun an opponent using dexterity.
As for the Dex vs Str thing, the reason Dex-based fighting tends to be so feat-heavy is probably because Dex is one of the most valuable stats in the game already. It gives you AC and serves as a prereq for a lot of combat feats, it's the basis of a lot of important and useful skills, and it's the base stat for one of your saves. If you can make Dex take over a lot of the important functions of Str, like to-hit, damage, and combat maneuvers, Str becomes practically useless, especially once you hit middle levels and can afford a bag of holding and probably have access to Ant Haul one way or another. The feat tax exists to nerf Dex fighters so that Str fighters can still be good at what they do.
EDIT: There is something interesting to note about my build, actually, and that is that though my Dex is higher than my Str, I haven't actually gone for Weapon Finesse. This is because the weapons I plan to be using are not the sort that benefit from Finesse that much, and the discrepancy is not very big. In addition, I plan to be using spells like Enlarge Person to increase my combat effectiveness. This strategy would not work with a dex-based character, where Reduce Person would serve me better. Still, with a reach-based tank/damage/AoO build like I'm going for, I'll do much better by taking boosts to strength. In addition, my high Dex will ensure that I'm able to still get in plenty of AoO's when my reach is extended to 20 feet, letting me control a huge amount of battlefield.
I'll admit, I'm a totally sucker for Dex-based melee fighters. Dex is just good for too many other things for me to pass up normally. I originally wanted to make Tavros a Dex fighter, but with all those bonuses to Str and abilities that rely on it, I decided it'd be easier (book keeping-wise) to stay away from yet another Dex build.
What with wild shape and dinosaurs, there's no other way to do it but a Strength build.
I usually go for strength builds, because I like the weapon selection better, but one of my favorite builds is Judah, who's ALL dexterity. I gave him some strength because of the generous point-buy so he could actually carry all his stuff and qualify for some feats, but that's about all he needs it for.
I might just take Agile Maneuvers anyway, just because we get so many feats and i almost never make room in any builds for maneuvers. I think Disarm, Dirty Trick, and Steal are good for this character.
One of the reasons I am dumping feats on everyone. It's rare to see some of these feats unless someone is just trying something experimental or fun.
If Mlinzi dies or something, I'm definitely keeping Judah as a backup character, by the way, assuming that's alright.
I have this idea for a trip build, though I haven't statted it up. A Minotaur monk with the growth domain and a reach weapon affected by the long arm spell using the ki throw feat could throw someone around up to 70 feet. Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp would allow for plenty of AoO's. Using one of the methods to provoke from any movement (there is a stance and a rage power), you could fling enemies around to protect allies. It is incredibly feat heavy and benefits greatly from a large number of different class abilities so it would be perfect for this game. I honestly have no idea what classes to pick other than monk. If someone wants tips for building something similar, just send me a message. I like Xanya very much and I won't abandon her now.
There is a monk archetype that trades stunning blow for trip.
Hmmm... yeah... this is going to be a new experience for me... My Stunning Fist actually has a decent chance of hitting AND affecting its target. I don't even know what to do with that... I wonder if it requires too much concentration to use while raging...
I think i might take some levels of Dragon Disciple with my bard column. Some golden scales will go well with the Princely nature of the grippli bard.
I really want to watch what happens with the lizardfolk. Dragon or Dinosaur, WHO WILL WIN?!!!
everyone knows dinosaurs are birds.
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Well actually Grobly... -adjusts nerd glasses-
Though both the Theropod and Sauropod dinosaur lineages are closely related to birds (Sauropod being more distant), only the Theropod lineage survived, evolving into modern-day birds. However, since Theropods were the two-legged running dinosaurs most likely to evolve into something like a Lizardfolk, your point still stands, especially since I heard plans of wildshaping into an Allosaurus.
On the other hand, it seems like Hsier-Shae is planning to base his character on something vaguely crocodilian, in which case his lineage might be neither dinosaur nor dragon, but rather that of some kind of more ancient reptilian species. Perhaps the Mosasaurs, or the crocodiles themselves.
Well actually Grobly... -adjusts nerd glasses-
Though both the Theropod and Sauropod dinosaur lineages are closely related to birds (Sauropod being more distant), only the Theropod lineage survived, evolving into modern-day birds. However, since Theropods were the two-legged running dinosaurs most likely to evolve into something like a Lizardfolk, your point still stands, especially since I heard plans of wildshaping into an Allosaurus.
On the other hand, it seems like Hsier-Shae is planning to base his character on something vaguely crocodilian, in which case his lineage might be neither dinosaur nor dragon, but rather that of some kind of more ancient reptilian species. Perhaps the Mosasaurs, or the crocodiles themselves.
I'm not exactly sure what most of what you said means, but I trust you.
As for his theme itself, I'm going for the biggest predators in his basically prehistoric swamp.
Megalania, Allosaurus, (hopefully Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus eventually, as they're Gargantuan, it'd take some special power), all the big ones.
So, maybe a mix of several lines of dinos/megafauna?
Although, the "more ancient reptilian species" sounds cool too.
It's his blood giving him power, in the form of all the reptilian predators he observed growing up.
This is Tenro's submission, ready for GM inspection.
I have this idea for a trip build, though I haven't statted it up. A Minotaur monk with the growth domain and a reach weapon affected by the long arm spell using the ki throw feat could throw someone around up to 70 feet. Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp would allow for plenty of AoO's. Using one of the methods to provoke from any movement (there is a stance and a rage power), you could fling enemies around to protect allies. It is incredibly feat heavy and benefits greatly from a large number of different class abilities so it would be perfect for this game. I honestly have no idea what classes to pick other than monk. If someone wants tips for building something similar, just send me a message. I like Xanya very much and I won't abandon her now.
Oho no, you've got to think much bigger than that. Tristalt Lore Warden/Investigator/Brawler; by level 10 with one mythic rank, you can trivially achieve a reach of 35', hit a trip bonus of +45 or so, and make an infinite number of AoOs per round.
I have this idea for a trip build, though I haven't statted it up. A Minotaur monk with the growth domain and a reach weapon affected by the long arm spell using the ki throw feat could throw someone around up to 70 feet. Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp would allow for plenty of AoO's. Using one of the methods to provoke from any movement (there is a stance and a rage power), you could fling enemies around to protect allies. It is incredibly feat heavy and benefits greatly from a large number of different class abilities so it would be perfect for this game. I honestly have no idea what classes to pick other than monk. If someone wants tips for building something similar, just send me a message. I like Xanya very much and I won't abandon her now.Oho no, you've got to think much bigger than that. Tristalt Lore Warden/Investigator/Brawler; by level 10 with one mythic rank, you can trivially achieve a reach of 35', hit a trip bonus of +45 or so, and make an infinite number of AoOs per round.
I fail to see how this is different from what I described? My example had 35' reach too, albeit at level 1. Monster CMD scale much faster with level than AC, so you are going to need all the bonuses to cmb you can get to keep up.
Nope—long arm plus enlarge is only 25' of reach, though that's not bad. The ki throw trick is a neat way to keep enemies away, though. But at the end of the day, yeah, you need a class with CMB boosts.
@Thunderbeard, she also mentioned using a reach weapon, which would get you to 35 feet reach.
From what I understand, a minotaur is a monstrous humanoid and cannot benefit from enlarge person. I believe the (Su) growth domain power acts as the spell and probably would also not work. You would have to use expansion or something instead.
Also, the rules for both Expansion and Enlarge Person say that if you get enlarged to Huge, your reach is still only 10'.
It is a common misconception that size automatically grants reach. Reading through the ARG creation rules shows otherwise.
I decided to make a druid/monk/witch.
Druid//Monk is a powerful combination. Lots of great synergy there, especially with Feral Combat Training. Witch adds a lot of fun versatility. Full-level Divine and Arcane casting is nothing to sneeze at. Only weakness I see is a lack of full BAB and D10+ hit die. I'd recommend going for the Unchained Monk to fill those gaps unless you've got an archetype you just have to have.
Yeah, I really thought about it, but it just wasn't what I wanted.
However, my first cheese dip will be monk, and I'm thinking about Master of Many Styles, for Dragon Style and some other fun ones.
Oh yeah, MoMS is awesome! If I wanted to go for the ultimate Monk gestalt, I'd go MoMS//Brawler. The one thing that really sucks about MoMS is that you lose flurry. This makes it great for Gestalting with something that normally wouldn't make use of flurry (such as casters, who are mostly taking Monk to get a little beefier and for the added options, or more classic martials, who like getting to use the Style feats). Brawler, of course, fixes this problem, while adding full BAB, a d10 hit die, Martial Flexibility, and even a little AC.
In this game, if I wanted something like a mega-monk, I'd add on either Bloodrager for Rage, spells, HP, and self-buffs, Ninja for precision damage, an expanded ki pool, and access to Ninja tricks (note that Monk ki and Ninja ki are interchangeable, and can be used to fuel ki powers and Ninja tricks, despite being based on different stats), or Warpriest of Irori for some righteous weapon damage, spells, healing, and even more versatility. That's if my goal was to make the most monk-like monk that ever monked.
Well, you are the one that pointed me that direction, remember?
I would think about that combo, but I'm set on what I got, and it'd be too much work with not enough time.
So, druid/cleric/bloodrager it is.
Druid//Monk is a powerful combination. Lots of great synergy there, especially with Feral Combat Training. Witch adds a lot of fun versatility. Full-level Divine and Arcane casting is nothing to sneeze at. Only weakness I see is a lack of full BAB and D10+ hit die. I'd recommend going for the Unchained Monk to fill those gaps unless you've got an archetype you just have to have.
yeah, Lump is a little weak, all his classes are D8 and medium BAB. But I just really wanted bard songs, rogue sneak attack, and full spellcasting.
Also, cheesy question here: Can i sneak attack with a ray that heals an ally?
I wasn't suggesting anyone change. Your Druid//Cleric//Bloodrager build is terrifying and a lot of fun.
I was basically windowshopping yet another build I'll probably never get to play. (-sigh- I have SO MANY Gestalt build ideas!) One of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of Brawler//MoMS Monk is because there's quite a bit of overlap. It's great because Brawler replaces the things that MoMS gives up, but part of the fun of Gestalt is getting to do new things with an old class, and Monk//Brawler just doesn't really do that, because Brawler is very similar to Monk thematically (though it might be more fun with a flavorful Brawler archetype).
Tenro, I'd say yes, but it's not the same type of damage as the healing, it's precision, so it'd actually hurt them.
If you have some way to use a healing ray to hurt someone more than you heal them, yeah. It'd work. Otherwise, no.
And changing: yeah, I do have a lot of looks at builds I could have done, even after getting into games.
I overthink every build I ever make.
Yeah, save healing sneak attacks for undead. They'll hate that!
Going d8 and 3/4 BAB is risky, but I've gotta admire the dedication, Tenro. Being small should help, though. You'll be harder to hit and harder to see. There can be tension between Bard and Rogue, though. Not always, to be sure. A lot of the best rogues can be quite charismatic in a swashbuckling bad boy kind of way, so I expect that could be a lot of fun. If you focus on illusion spells, you should be able to get your Bardic Performance going and make it impossible for enemies to keep track of where you are. You'll really have to focus on avoiding damage while you buff your allies and try to set up flanking as much as possible.
Yeah, i was just wondering if i could cheese "Channel Ray" to "precision attack" the wound with a healing lazer... hahaha
Yeah, I will pick up some illusions later, for sure. And I saw some cool feats that make it where your performance is free any round you cast a spell. And another one that lets you disguise spellcasting into the song. Lots of little interesting things to do.
With my Twin Mind, I was thinking Marksman, but I want to see how melee works out for the little bugger. I invested a bit of feat/trait effort into making his mandolin be decent at hitting. If i can disarm them, then they're automatically considered flat-footed because of Catch Off-Guard, so that's something. But going Marksman ought to get my BAB and HD caught up, since it's D10 and full BAB.
Not sure what to do with my cheese dips, I was thinking monk for the first one? There is the empty hand monk that works on improvised weapons, or maybe i could pick one more with defense in mind...
EDIT: modified Lump's sheet, i had forgotten to put in the size bonus to hit.
Oh, Tenro, cheese dip Monk of the Empty Hand if it doesn't mess with your alignment too much. It seriously increases your improvised weapon damage. You'd have to retrain Catch Off-Guard, of course, but that shouldn't be too big a problem. Just ask a member of your party to train you during downtime in a feat they have. I assume other party members should be able to serve as teachers for retraining.
Hmm, I may have to train my Catch Off-guard into Additional Traits, so i can pick up Chawful.
I am not sure what else might be good for cheese dips. I want alchemist, but honestly that won't be very useful after only a few levels. I'd be interested to hear what you think might be good for Lump.
Kinda wish I'd seen Chawful earlier. That opens up some interesting avenues. I might have been able to go MoMS Monk, though Martial Artist is probably the best archetype for this particular build. When cheese dips roll around, I might consider taking Additional Traits for Chawful... though I can't think of any classes besides Monk, Unchained Monk, and Paladin that have a Lawful requirement.
Still, with Chawful on the table, it's finally possible to make a Druid//Paladin. I wonder, though, how any of the Paladin's Law-based abilities would work, then, since the only available alignment for that combo is NG.
So, now it's possible to make a Lawful Barbarian (which can synergize nicely with Monk), though the usefulness of this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Bloodrager is similar to Barbarian, and can already be any alignment, and synergizes beautifully with Paladin. It's possible to make a non-Lawful Monk, though the Martial Artist archetype already did that, and that archetype really synergizes well with Barbarian, the only class I can think of that has to be non-Lawful. Monk and Druid already overlapped, though this gives some more flexibility...
So the only truly unique class combination I'm aware of that Chawful provides is the NG Druid//Paladin. However, it becomes far more valuable for cheese dips, since you can pick pretty much whatever alignment you want, and don't have to alignment shift to get the fun stuff from the other classes. In addition, it frees up Paladin and Monk to worship deities that would normally be banned for them. You can have the drunken Paladin of Cayden Cailean, for example, or the mystical Paladin of Nethys. In short, this trait is powerful, and allows for a lot more flexibility when it comes to class flavor. I like it!
Oh, I suppose it also permits non-chaotic anti-paladins, which means it's finally possible to build that Blackguard character I've always liked the sound of for a villain or anti-hero. A character like that would play a lot like Guy of Gisbourne from the BBC's Robin Hood.
I am thinking to pick up chawful to twin mind dip into paladin somewhere down the line.
Haha, for the Holy Triad of Destruction, you can now play a Chaotic Good Paladin//Cleric//Warpriest of Gorum!
Here is the submission for Trawets71. Not sure if it's too late or not. But in any case I had fun making him.
Nathan is a cleric/paladin/wizard of Sarenrae and the antitheses of a normal ogre.
Here is the submission for Trawets71. Not sure if it's too late or not. But in any case I had fun making him.
Nathan is a cleric/paladin/wizard of Sarenrae and the antitheses of a normal ogre.
Plenty of time. Welcome!
I will look him over, and will take some time to figure out your place.
Feel free to hop in the general gameplay here for a quick intro. Most players are heading to their main tables now though.
Yeah... bloodrager supercedes barbarian in pretty much every way, though unchained adds a few niceties back.
Except antimagic zone. That thing completely turns off a bloodrager, and just leaves them a fatigued mess for their trouble. :(
Barbarian's still got a lot of great archetypes, though. I still swear by Invulnerable Rager.