500 BP? That is a lot ! So we are really going the high-powered route? All-righty then : )
Well she had 40 Guards (Professional Rating 2), 10 Guard LTs. (Professional Rating 2 LT), 10 HTR Guards(Professional Rating 5 with 2 LTs.), 10 Steel Lynxes, 15 Doberman, 5 Roto-Drones, and 25 Fly-Spies.
I got her to cut it down in exchange for her getting to use better tactics.
OH I also forgot the large number of Guard Dogs.
So it s us vs a small army?
I better load up on bandadges.
Give their new profession rating they are more akin to a Platoon of Soldiers.
Though given the First Campaign Plot we came up with it seems fitting.
That ... is quite an impressive guard force. But as long as it makes sense in game : )
Meh it has dropped in numbers but has increased in terms of Equipment and abilities.
She is still building them. Using Prime Runner NPCs but at around 300BP for Stats and Skills.
Random Question: Why are people uninterested in Hackers, Technomancers, or Riggers? Especially on this boards...
I mean I understand 5th Edition doesn't have much selection but I have a Getaway Driver who is the teams Recon Sniper who uses his Drones to shadow his targets and watch his six
EDIT: BTW track Essence out to 4 Decimal Places. (i.e.: 6.0000)
Hackers:
The matrix is a lot more complicated than the meatworld side of Shadowrun. There's nodes, commlinks, nexi, sprites, agents, IC, etc, to track. And cybercombat gets the shaft because anyone you're realistically interested in hacking is probably going to be better at it than you (that is, a corp with a nexus and a bunch of ICs and agents is going to blow away your commlink running just your persona). So the only real way to hack is to not get caught. And that's if you can figure out hacking in the first place.
Technomancers:
Same problems as above, but now you can't be a magician, adept, or mystic adept either. Not being able to dip adept is probably the hardest pill to swallow.
Riggers:
Drones are great, but they're prone to breaking, and repairing/replacing drones all the time can really run up the bills. Most players prefer to build their character and try to preserve themselves rather than to build a drone army while trying to keep costs down, I'd guess.
Matrix has all the complexity of meat combat, plus all the complexity of rigger combat. Plus you are always out numbered, you have no one to watch your back, you can die or get mind hosed and have no way to stop it really. So basically, it sucks. And usually, people have to wait for you to finish before they can do something. That makes you a special snowflake most of the time, even in PBP.
Rigging is only slightly better. You have the homefield advantage, and you can run IC programs against hackers. But it's still a pain to keep track of all the fiddly bits. A major pain. Plus you are still controlling 10 pieces for everyone else's one, so you're a special snowflake if you're not careful.
Technomancers are Hackers on Steroids, and even more special snowflakes.
Well dipping Adept is not gonna be allowed...
My experience is to use the smaller drones with the larger ones being emergency use.
Plus Smoke Grenades from a Roto-Drone with a party loaded with Thermal Vision is very handy.
Sounds more like most people are lazy about figuring out hacking or finding smart solutions to an simple problem.
Sorry just being brutally honest about what I think on this.
My Sniper has 2 Vehicles (Sazuki Mirage & Bulldog), 2 Roto-Drones, A Dalmation, A Steel Lynx, then a bunch of Flying Eyes/Fly-Spys.
The Roto-Drones are Identical with SMGs and Grenade Launchers. They are only used to cover an escape or pin the enemy down.
The Dalmation carries a modified Assault Rifle that serves as a Support Sniper Rifle (SA & BF capable). It serves to draw the enemy attention from myself.
The Steel Lynx is equipped with a HMG or a Vindicator LMG. This is used primarily to set-up and wait for us to draw enemies into its suppression fire zone.
The Flying Eyes/Fly-Spys (based on edition) are simply for Recon and Overwatch duties.
He only dives or even accesses a node when necessary.
EDIT:
Again lazy solution when a simpler one is available. Any GM worth their salt can juggle simple tasks like those.
And those same things can happen to an Awakened.
This issue occurs in EVERY GAME OUT THERE d20/Pathfinder has Spellcasters, Warzone and Warfighter have Snipers, Gunners, and Demolitionists.
Your brutal honesty doesn't negate the fact that both types of characters are like summoners in PF, they can summon out an army and take up as much time with their turns as everyone else. Especially for Matrix stuff. And on Matrix, it holds up everyone else while they run a hack into the system.
Sorry, being brutally honest.
Again any GM that knows what they are doing can juggle those. While the Decker/Hacker/Technomancer is doing their thing those outside the matrix still have to worry about being caught. While the Mage is Astral Projecting the same thing can happen with the Decker/Hacker/Technomancer.
And most of the examples I have seen on actual SR Forums have been proven false given the way the system actually works.
Like a Rigger can only give a single command either to a group or individual drone but can't issue individual orders to them all.
And a really easy way to alleviate that issue is simply to give other players the right to control the drones based on their current orders. Same thing that can be done with large numbers of Eidolons and Animal Companions.
Take my sniper I typically only control the Rigger and the Dalmation with our Street Samurai taking the Steel Lynx and our Technomancer taking the Roto-Drones. Then we each take a portion of the Minidrones that are our detachment.
I think you may be having some 2nd/3rd edition people. In 2nd/3rd, the matrix stuff took nanoseconds of game time, but hours of real time. A lot of old hands have a bad taste in their mouth about that.
Secondly, your argument doesn't negate the 'special snowflake' issue of riggers having a ton of things to control. Even if they're not 'jumping into' each one, realistically, they still have to do the dice rolls, movements, etc for all the drones.
Honestly, if you're that pissed off that you're getting ticked off at us for not instantly agreeing, maybe you should step back and not run the game. Everyone is entitled to dislike any class/job they like, and getting upset about them not liking it and banning core rules to force people into the cubbyholes you want is more like throwing vinegar than honey.
Take my sniper I typically only control the Rigger and the Dalmation with our Street Samurai taking the Steel Lynx and our Technomancer taking the Roto-Drones. Then we each take a portion of the Minidrones that are our detachment.
What I meant here is that each person rolled for those drones and controlled their movement and everything based on the commands I gave.
And it isn't so much that as it is simply the fact that people seem to look at something then say not to hard or play with a GM that hasn't gotten the hang of it then say nope not happening.
I never said I was banning anything. I am just saying you won't be "dipping" into something. Taking the Adept Quality simply for some basic powers and then never touching on the fact that your an Adept again is not gonna fly.
And most of the people in this discussion thread I am getting annoyed at came in 4th or 5th Edition.
EDIT: Sorry I am having a hard time explaining everything in the right way. The medium that is the internet is not helping matters.
Just weighting in my humble opinions on the topic of hackers/riggers.
Personally both of the 'classes' are fun but there are some (very) annoying flaws with both.
The first is the numbers game - if you play a hacker, you are basically always alone (since noone but a hacker can waltz around in a corporate node without setting every alarm off). It's like playing a super dedicated stealth specialist in a team full of pink mohawk trolls. This means you really have to resolve your actions separately from the others in your team. In reality this should be a much smaller problem in a pbp then in a meatspace game, but I feel some of the stigma remains. (This is also the reason I prefer Adepts to Mages to avoid the astral)
Riggers are the other way around - you can simply have so much minions it soaks up alot of time. Again, this is only a problem in meatspace games and should be easier to handle. Since we have been given extra BP I am actually considering branching of in this direction just to try!
Secondly - I've spend faaar to much time in Mirror's Edge and stealth shooters to play a character that can't run on walls :P
TL:DR Personally I feel most of the annoyance towards the Matrix classes come from personal meatspace experience. Really - a PBP is a totally different medium, but it is hard to shake the previous experience.
Btw - are we allowed to spend more then 50BP on gear now : )?
i just personally like adept and mystical adept in shadowrun...
:)
You can spend up to 100BP on Gear. And any character could reasonably run on walls with a Running Check followed by a Gymnastics Check.
I can understand liking them but I also think people shouldn't just play the same character types. Besides I have literally seen about 20-25 People say get rid of the matrix with a bunch of others saying get rid of at least VR.
Honestly, I found that a team works best when they each have their own specialized moments.
Take my IRL group:
My Rigger have the Recon and Assassination moments.
Our Technomancer has Matrix Moments.
Our Street Samurai has Melee Combat Moments.
Our Weapon Specialist has Ranged Combat Moments.
Our Hermetic Mage is our Mechanic and Medic.
Our Shaman is our Combat Mage and Face.
Gymnastics / running keys of strength and agility - probably not the hackers strongest suit : )
As stated, people probably feel that way from having unfavourable experience with the system, since it does have potential to slow down an IRL game. The other halves are probably just paranoid about having their tacnet hacked :P
100 BP on gear - that means I could have some more nuyen to play around with. And that means I should be able to afford atleast some drones to play around with ...
Say, what would the cost be to mount a jericho trumpet on an flying drone ^^? And is there and dronesoft for intimidate...
My groups Technomancer is pretty good with Agility and Strength He/She (Player is female not sure on the character...) can't really resist a hard hit but ca move pretty good.
And really... Really...
Dive bombing is a legit tactic ! It's not like I can afford to mount drones with real weaponry, they just get shot down : ) Besides, while even fragmentation rockets are hard to get the Termination System (Self Destruct) can easily be fitted in a disposable drone ... Perhaps the guards new coffee-maker? ^^
Edit: Also, will the availability shift upwards as well? to 14? 15?
Availability is 15.
And might I suggest a Tower loaded with Hunter-Killer Drones or Heimdalls all of which are in Arsenal.
There is no need for an extra availability check for the warhead? Sweet!
Edit: On the topic of heavier ordinance, are the rules for carrying and using Heavy Weapons (p162 in Arsenal) going to be enforced for lighter Heavy Weapons such as grenadelaunchers, lmgs and explicitly one man usable weapons such as LAWs ?
Not that I see... Though I might make it to where to acquire them in the future you might need to make an availability test based on the Higher Availability.
Also remember that you have to have the ability to interact with AR to even control a drone and that a Control Rig is an Augmentation.
Though Hunter-Killer and Fly-Spies might be a bit better earlier on given the costs of a Heimdall (2000¥ for a single use Fragmentation Guided Missile).
You can always settle for issuing commands with a comm-link and not jumping in =) Which is about right as a secondary consideration. Also, I edited in another question in the other post - didn't think you would be so fast ^^
We are using some but not that rule. Well unless you are trying to use something way to large.
So the plan to duct tape seven HMGs together is off then ... =)
Why... Who... How... When... Where... What!?
Why not just use the Vindicator?
simple action spinup time :P
Besides, while impressive, the Vindicator can't be used as an jetpack in a pinch xD
(But no, I was mostly looking to use an LMG - and since they have the same damage code as most of the rifles I was just checking so I didn't shoot myself in the foot by picking it over the rifle.)
Advantage of the Rifle: More Firing Mode Options. On the Vindicator that would only be once per combat or heck maybe once per run if you are willing to put up with the Noise.
And rifles are usually more easy to conceal. Rifles have every advantage except range on LMGs - besides coolness : )
But I'm thinking of paying up for an Vindicator anyways, so I can have it Pimped and use as an accessory for any intimidation. Instead of the typical 'I pump my shotgun once' I could roll with 'I spin up my minigun'. Awesome
Add in a Bayonet that looks like a Circular drill bit. (The kind that make a hole for running Conduit & Piping out of the wall... What are they called?)
Hmm that is actually a good (<- not sure about that word!) plan!
Hole Saws - that would be the English translation of their Swedish term anyway.
I have heard them called Hole Bits, Disc Cutters, and various other names.
And it is so Evil it is good.
Okay I am being forced to ask if any of you are interested in maybe playing in an All Flesh Must Be Eaten(AFMBE) as we have an entire campaign pre-made for that.
This one should have its new first post ready for new introductions soon as well.
I don't understand the question.
-Posted with Wayfinder
There is a Survival Horror RPG called All Flesh Must Be Eaten.
She is wondering if any of you are interested in playing in a Campaign on here or RPM for that game. Mainly because she put a bunch of work into it only for her group to say nevermind and start playing a Pathfinder Eberron Campaign.
We are burned out on the Character types we usually get forced into playing in d20/Pathfinder Games so that they can play their typical character types.
(The Meat Shield and Support Caster specifically.)
Basically in addition to this campaign would you be interested in trying to survive through her Zombie Survival Map. It literally is huge. I mean an area around the size of Skyrim already laid out and ready to go.
I don't know the rules, nor have access to them. Which is a shame, I do like zombie movies. :(
We are just doing the Core Rules for now. And not having any Inspired.
I think I seen it somewhere that the PDF for the revised edition was 5$.
Things are a bit tight right now, and I spent my christmas stash on the 5th edition book I won't need now.
I'm sorry...
And I know how that works. The pdf I am using for it I technically stole from her.
EDIT: In hindsight I just realized that you can't see me pointing at the evil woman sitting next to me right now...
EDIt2: Apparently do to the licensing used for the PDF I can send it to you via private email as long as you intend on buying it legitimately.
It would be months before I did, so probably not the best of ideas. :(
It gives you a year from the date you download it to buy it.
I'll pass on learning a new system for now.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Same as lyst. i have to learn already the New Werewolf system for a game...
I will also pass - not sure if I could handle more pbps . )
Redline (my gunbunny) is almost done. I have some nuyen laying about, probably going to spend it on some more toys (perhaps that pimped Vindicator ...) and some improved armour. My BP is all spent, but I am considering lowering either edge or willpower to be able to pick up the entire Firearms group as well as a point in perhaps Mechanic or Pilot(airspace?) but I am worried about get tanking my Composure (since her Cha is abyssmal) or having too few get out of shit cards to play ...
Suggestions and critique is welcome !
Will drop backstory in a day or two, still thinking on it. Also - this time around I will see if I can't find a picture (might change her into an elf, if only because I can't seem to find any non-slutty cybered human women ... :/)
That is fine as she had her laptop die and my internet is spotty given a recent hiccup Mediacom had.
It will be around Saturday before the new thread will be up.
Also for the new campaign I would like you all to have a basic individual background then work together to figure out how you guys formed a cohesive team. This campaign works best if you are starting out at the very least knowing each other via previous jobs.
Background's already been done. I'll be happy to work out with people if they want. I suggest something simple.
Might I suggest this being your second job as a cohesive team?
Sounds fine to me. I'd suggest the first was a difficult, but not outrageous job. Something along the lines of a guard mission that got attacked 2 or 3 times. Everyone got a chance to shine (rigger, decker, sniper, sammy, mage).