Just by the way you jump to conclusions, instantly saying I try to ruin it for everyone. It's your wording that makes it personal whether intentional or not, but that aside, I'm not arguing here, more just saying that it's not as simple as one alignment.
You can be a saint but if you know you have to do evil deeds to reach a greater good, you're still good, it's just there's a lot of grey in between. You can't truly pin it on one alignment, so as his base he's neutral good because he has good intentions and won't bother those who don't bother him, but the neutral comes from accepting the fact he has to do some evil to reach his good goals.
If you could have evil good.... ;)
Thanks for the heal btw Angmar. I'm going to recover my build hopefully now and I'd have levelled up shortly. :)
Apollo, I find your character interesting, because I've actually thought about that line of alignment closely myself. Do a person's actions or intentions make them Good?
I happen to think along the same lines as a majority of PF and D&D players, and it's that a person's actions make them Good.
Let me go with a slightly less complicated, modern-day example to explain.
A woman is robbed of her purse in broad daylight, in front of a large crowd. A man gives chase to the robber, but is ambushed by the robber's friends and beaten halfway to death. Dozens of people stand by, watching.
Each of the people that stands by and does nothing thinks along the same lines: 'gosh, I wish I could help her', or perhaps, 'somebody ought to help her' but none of them actually act.
Would you consider any of these people Good-aligned, even though they did nothing at all? Not acting is pretty much the most Neutral thing you can do. On the other hand, both the robber and his friends are likely Evil, considering that they were just stealing and injuring people who did nothing to them. On a third hand, the man who tried to help the woman who had been stolen from would likely to be Good, as he put himself in danger for the welfare of another person.
As far as I understand it, where your character would be placed would be in the group of robbers/thugs, but he wouldn't be there for the money. He would be there because he assumes that many people would jump to the aid of the woman, and thus would be united against evil.
This doesn't make him Good in the same way that the bystanders are not Good either. They did nothing to advance Good interests.
Also, I don't think Kori is assuming you TRY to ruin the game for everyone. He's just trying to explain why the GM took actions against your character - specifically, because he thinks that your actions may potentially ruin the fun of the game for others.
I dunno, he see's himself as above thugs and people like that. He despises those who hurts others, which is why he despises himself in ways because he values friendship and loves people and wants to fight for their freedom, but always has his sight fixed on his goals, even if it means sacrificing those he cares about.
If he actively saw someone mugging an old lady, he'd command the thug when nobody was around to either kill himself or turn himself in.
As for the GM thing, maybe, but the way it's all worded is pretty aggressive and assumptive, practically saying I'm in the wrong and the only one to blame. I ran my concept through with the GM beforehand and literally typed about 7 pages of personality up in word, detailing everything that makes him tick and what he'd do if people got in his way.
The GM was fine with it, promised if I played a Cleric I'd be ruler and that he already decided who fits each role, so after so much work I spent keeping the team alive and working as a leader (because I did...there was no conflict beforehand), when he said the quiet Summoner who never spoke or lead anyone and just hid behind everyone...was to be ruler because of their stats (+4 Cha, as opposed to my +4 Wis and +3 Cha), a few players raised their eyebrows, someone nearly left as they didn't like the way the GM favoured others and we had a split. One who followed the Summoner, one who followed my character and one who didn't get involved and cared neither way.
It was only then that I made a flawless plan to remove the Summoner's position without killing the other PC's character. The player was gobsmacked and just said oh my word, with his mouth left hanging open after I explained everything to him when my character died....
That was a whole new story, but my guy died because he was standing behind the one who loyally supported him, the GM put way too many Worg's in against us, and the neutral player started shouting at me telling me to swap places with him so he could better heal the fighter, but....I was the best one to heal him, and he didn't tell me his go wasn't right after mine, so I moved, a worg got in my place, another ran past me and basically the other players actions screwed us all over because I refused to move at first as it was a bad idea, but after 10 minutes of him moaning, I did and the only two to walk away was him and the ranger.
I only needed to live one more round and I'd have survived, as it just took one last round to finish the worg off, but the ranger moved his wolf away from me that was protecting me to protect himself, I was unconscious and I'd blown all of my healing on those last two guys.
Sad case.
So he's like an insecure teenage girl, unsure about all the bullying that her friends are doing but she joins in anyway because she thinks it makes her cool and popular, and with popularity comes power, and when she has all the power, she can CHANGE THE RULES OF POPULARITY IN THE SCHOOL MUAHAHAHAHAHA.
Is Darth Vader Good-aligned?
No, nothing like that. Watch Code Geass. He's the main character from that, that I just made in Pathfinder. :)
Updated my post above btw, with more detail lol.
In fact, if you have a spare moment feel free to read my Lelouch Vi Orlovsky profile. That's just a portion of the detail I typed, but I put sooo much effort into it, I'm hoping to play him on tabletop again sometime.
I'll take a look, sure.
We can get going on here again once you and Dmitri are fully leveled up, by the way.
Okay, just eating a curry then I'll get it all sorted. I recovered my build at least. Not sure it's the right one, but it's close enough!
This level is 2-handed Fighter for me.
I have to be honest about Apollo and Lelouch both, and I want you to think about it closely.
Both characters have extremely high opinions of themselves. Why is this? Neither of them (being 1st-level characters) should have done anything of note, nor are they any more than a common level of power.
As a general rule, I tend to think that lower-level characters should be far less grand than your characters seem to be.
It's to represent who they are more than anything, not factoring in what levels they are. IT's pretty much a foretelling of what they can achieve and what they're capable of.
I don't build around my level. I build around a concept, and even if at level 1 they're pathetic, they would have done things in their past that would have kept them alive or gotten them the ranking they have.
Apollo isn't actually that high opinionated of himself. He just doesn't like people trying to stop him from seeking revenge on the Gnoll's, and he survived in the wild using his instincts, but now that he's surrounded by enemies, he's a little kinda lost in the moment.
Vengeance is the only thing on his mind so he's currently careless, but learning to work with others. He always did his own thing in the past and so I've made sure I've roleplayed it. :)
Lelouch on the other hand.....he's just powerful through and through. Physically weak in every regard, but mentally outstanding, and as such is probably my strongest character ever created. Never in my time have other players feared a character of mine, and so I'm glad that what I was trying to achieve with him worked.
If you want to look at a character I have who's easily lead and heavily impressionable, check out Elegad Espris.
Every character I create has their own personality. :D
My GMPC in Rise of the Runelords is massively different too. He's a Cleric but of the Healing and Ferocity domain. A good guy and a blast to play, always supporting others.
I think I'm still diseased aren't I? Con's at 11, not 12 currently. I'm also missing a point, not that it entirely matters, from my build.
Anyway, upping Dex this level so it's on 16, and here's what I shall be adding:
+1 Bab +2 Fort, Bonus feat (Boon Companion - Nom)
HP (1d10+1 Con) =
So, my BAB is 4, Fort is now +6 and Nom, though back at the Monastery is now my level.
Not sure if I get that 7 extra HP from this level added to my already existing health or if it'll just remain as my new maximum. I'm thinking the latter, but either way I heal for an additional 5hp up to 19 as I only have +1 Con lol. I thought I had +2, but nope!
Also upped my Intimidate and Ride skills by 1. :)
You are not diseased and your Con is at full. You got hit with a lesser restoration from the halfling cleric that restored your Con and you didn't fail another save.
When you gain a level, you also don't gain current health.
Also, two things. You can't legally take the Boon Companion feat, as you don't have the animal companion class feature yet. Not only that, but you can't take it as a Fighter bonus feat. It isn't a combat feat.
Fair enough. I wasn't going to level Nom until I hit level 5 anyway, but if I can't take it now, I'll look into something else.
Edit: Just swapped around what level I can do what, so although it'll be pointless until level 5, I'll grab Ride-By-Attack this level and Boon next. :)
my health roll. And how well it is.
New current health: 55
I placed my Attribute into Constitution for obvious reasons.
I also healed the majority of the sex damage. Sex damage.
Unnamed Hero
Human Antipaladin 3/Fighter (Unbreakable) 1
LE Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +1
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 55 (4d10+20)
Fort +14 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +5, Will +7
Immune disease
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Sickle +5 (1d6+1/x2) and
. . Tempest +6 (2d4+2/x4)
Special Attacks smite good (1/day)
Spell-Like Abilities
. . At will—Detect Good (At will)
Antipaladin Spells Prepared (CL 0):
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +4; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Persuasive, Toughness
Traits Ease of Faith, Missionary (Knowledge [religion])
Skills Acrobatics -3 (-7 jump, +2 to make high or long jumps), Bluff +10, Climb -3, Diplomacy +15, Escape Artist -3, Fly -3, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (religion) +11, Ride -3, Sense Motive +5, Stealth -3, Swim -3 (+1 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal
SQ aura of cowardice, aura of evil, cruelties (shaken [dc 14]), touch of corruption (1d6) (4/day), unholy resilience
Other Gear Breastplate, Tempest, Sickle, Ring of jumping, 150 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura of Cowardice (Su) Enemies within 10 ft. are not Immune to fear and take -4 to saves vs. fear effects.
Aura of Evil (Ex) The antipaladin has an Aura of Evil with power equal to her class level.
Cruelty (Shaken) (3 rds) (DC 14) (Su) When you use your Touch of Corruption ability, you may also make your target shaken for 1r/Antipaladin level
You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of Touch of Corruption, chosen when used.
Detect Good (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Good at will (as the spell).
Diehard You are stable and can choose how to act when at negative Hp.
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Ring of jumping This ring continually allows the wearer to leap about, providing a +5 competence bonus on all his Acrobatics checks made to make high or long jumps.
Construction
Requirements: Forge Ring, creator must have 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill; Cost 1,250 gp
Smite Good (1/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +3 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Touch of Corruption (1d6) (4/day) (Su) You can inflict 1d6 damage, 4/day
Unholy Resilience (Su) You gain your Charisma Bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.
I now have an Aura of Cowardice, where nothing is immune to fear within 10 feet of me and they take a -4 to the roll. On another note, I also took up the shaken cruelty. So now I touch things. I refer to it as "The Boogey Finger"
I'm baaaack~
Just waiting on the response from the man the previous night before I post my night sequence. :-)
Apologies if it's wrong, but without a map, I just had to use my imagination, so as Kori's being brave, Dmitri's finished off Angmar's target and I've run to the side, I've made the map as follows:
Re-reading Lein's description gnoll 1 and 2 might be 1 square back up the screen, but yea, see how you guys prefer it.
Just checking - You're not all waiting on my actions are you?
No, I'm actually waiting on Dmitri.
Think I should DMPC him? He's probably partying way harder than I am.
And your a freshman in college? That would be rather ruff...
I am indeed a freshman. And a music major.
I hear music majors are way too busy practicing their instruments to ever party...
Anyaways why don't we get thus game rolling again?
Yea, just GMPC him if we're all waiting and want to get a move on. :p
My main pc died a week or two back, and with it I lost my music program, Photoshop and most of my artwork. It was a sad day. :(
I'm good for replying whenever. Would it be a full round action to move to the Cleric, drop my hammer and pull out an arrow (as a free action and part of a move action) to free him so he can hopefully take care of himself?
I plan to do that before jumping back in the fray. My HP is pathetic for my level anyway, unless everyone elses is just overly good, so I doubt my absence in combat makes much difference right now, no matter how hard I can hit.
It is a full round to get over to him and pull out something bladed, yes.
And okay, I'll DMPC him when I get a moment to write up a combat post today.
Lein in your post you disregarded Angmar's action or did I miss something?
It's a glorious blend of homework and studio projects, actually. I apologize for the absense. where the year is wrapping up and im an art major I kind of find myself spending longer hours in the art district more than In care to mention. On the bright side the art majors get done with their work before anyone, so that makes up for it I guess.
In other news I'm in a morph suit typing all this out. Solid black with a heartless symbol on the front. Happy halloween you beautiful bastards. And a toast to this campaign running longer than any of us could have imagined :D.
Also Apollo your hp isn't that terrible. I mean I have D10's just like you, but I have far more constitution, feats including health increases, and I've rolled perfect 10's twice. I've played it off as unholy vigor given by Lilith.
Worst case scenario you just end up using then bow more.
Angmar's action was after Apollo's turn, so I needed Apollo to post first.
Lol, Kingdom Hearts is a good series but happy Halloween. I'm doing nothing for it sadly. :(
Lein, you also changed my actions to kill the first Gnoll. I wasn't fussed as the Gnoll was stilld ead and we can imagine it however. :p
As for my life, well I dunno. I made him as an upfront fighter as I find that a lot more fun than archery, so was just surprised all of you guys can take more hits than Apollo to a point where I feel Apollo looks permanently weak to your characters.
What did I do? You missed, I didn't change anything.
The reason you have low HP is because you rolled a 2 one time and you have 12 Con. If you had invested more in your Con, or taken average hp, you'd have like 45 hit points.
It was the run in, charge and swing at the Gnoll's head. You said it hit him in the stomach instead but like I said, no biggie. It's not an issue, just figured I'd say something as Angmar had.
As for Con, yea, I could but being a switch-hitter, it's not easy to go down that path. I alsorolled badly on 2 occasions, which has been a major issue with this and my last pc in this campaign. Granted Apollo's doing a little better than my Halfling who had 26hp at level 6 (that included toughness and an okay con...as I rolled a 1 for 3 levels in a row with that PC).
Genies of Golarion grant me no luck.
Leinathen did we ever discuss changing my level of fighter over to paladin? I can't recall if we did or not, and 20 pages of conversation is a lot to swim through.
We did, yes, and I'm perfectly fine with you doing that, but you would lose both Diehand and Endurance, because of the archetype you took, so I seem to remember you were less than keen about doing that. If you've changed your mind, however, I still haven't, and you still can.
You'd also need to spend basically an entire in-game day re-training your powers and learning the new ones.
Well, next level I gain a feat, correct? I could just forego my fighter's endurance and gain diehard as my fifth level feat, which effectively leaves me unchanged in the feat department.
So I'll do just that, but likely after this whole situation with the gnolls is crossed off.
Endurance is a prerequisite for Diehard, so no, you couldn't do that.
Hmm. Well darn. Oh well then. Thats probably why i was opposed to it originally.
Yeah, I'd rather you just keep with the same build than do the extensive re-training it would take to keep Endurance and Diehard AND the extra antipaladin level.
Same here. Also, I just posted, so that's good. I'm still experimenting with what I'm going to get as my fifth level feat. Any ideas?
Feats to look at:
Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Skill Focus (Bluff)
Extra Channel
Improved Channel
Heroic Recovery
Improved Greater Fortitude
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Channel Smite
Deceitful
Fast Healer
Selective Channeling
Weapon Focus (Scythe)
Quick Channel
Rhetorical Flourish
Survivor
Extra Touch of Corruption (y'know, instead of Extra Lay on Hands) could work, or you could grab Ability Focus (touch of corruption). You could also grab Weapon Focus (scythe) or Skill Focus (diplomacy or intimidate). Those are in terms of basic feats.
I was looking through the feat database and found two that are pretty well-flavored for Dmitri.
and Mark of Evil
Well I have way more Diplomacy and bluff as is necessary, so skill focus diplomacy, as juicy as it is, can wait. That Mark of Evil looks delicious, though.
Am I allowed to flavor Mark of Evil into another mark, however? I'd rather the mark be placed on his face, rather than anything. He's got the stereotypical "evil eyepatch" thing going on with his hair, so I had the flavorful idea of him pushing it back behind his ear if he ever wished to truly make someone stay out of his business.
Or for fairness and the removal of the toggle ability, I could just make his eyes do that thing they've done before where they bleed again, but this time it forms deep, red ridges and his eyes could still be "Demonically enticing"
What do you think?
The belly thing could also be done rather simply too, but I'd prefer it to be a weird sort of thing on his chest that he'd intentionally show off with armor.
I think that I'd allow you to put the mark on your face, yeah. What would the deformity BE, though? I mean, it's not just a inky mark, it's actually supposed to be a physical deformity.
Hmm. Physical deformity... What I'm thinking of is something that I can keep hidden until Dmitri starts to really lose himself in a situation. Sort of something that becomes slowly more strange and somewhat terrifying to watch. Something he can reveal that literally signifies him as a favored of Lilith.
Goat eyes are out of the question because I can't think of anything else that goes more with Lamashtu.
Horns are in, and having just one could make it that much more appealing.
The deformity can't be usable as a new weapon, so I can't really say his teeth get sharper, or at the least, sharp enough to actually use them in combat.
An elongated tongue is seductive and creepy at the same time, so that's an idea on the list.
Sharpened teeth, a disgustingly long tongue that I can actually keep in my mouth and talk properly with, and a horn that curves down to his shoulder plate. On top of that, his eyes turn a bright, cat-eyed yellow with almost-black rings around them.
Is that too much?
I think that particular style of horn would be too large to keep hidden. In general, at least for you and what you seem to be wanting it for, the deformities should only occupy half of your face, but should basically completely dominate your features for that half of your face.
Perhaps the following image:
Lilith's holy symbol, enscarred on your cheek.
A small, pointed, demonic horn poking up out of your brow on one side.
One bright, yellow eye with a black ring, Like this, but in reverse on the same side as the other deformities.
I dunno about the tongue, because it would break with the "one-half-face" dynamic, but you can surely have it if you want.
I like that idea, but I'm keeping the tongue because it's easy to keep hidden. Not that I'm going to hide it, lol.
*whispers*
The lawful evil guy is suggesting we save our heals, while both being an a+~*!!! and having a point.
So, a word of warning. We're likely going to hit level 5 in the next few weeks, if I had to guess, and Dmitri's feat happens to be mark of evil, which is a red flag to anyone of good alignment, but that's fine in my book.
Does anyone have any idea how their characters are going to react to that?
Have a baby with Kori, and if Apollo dies, I'll play your fiendish template offspring. :p
Nah, I don't really know at the minute. Apollo is good and his intentions are good but he see's the group as a bunch of mercenaries trying to get a job done. He'll say what he feels and maybe even act on things, but seeing as he gets on best with Dmitri I feel, he'd be a bit torn and probably just give you a talking to about things, saying how he doesn't agree with the way you do things, but as free men, he has no hold over you, and it isn't his place to dictate what others do, so he'd probably not care too much about deforming the parties enemies, and only really say anything if Dmitri harmed innocents or did clearly evil things in front of him.
Hope that helps! :)
He knows you're a bit psychotic already. :p
Angmar while not of good alignment is the follower of a good deity and generally more good inclined than evil. He definitely would have a problem. Actually he already has a problem with Dimitri and currently this is kept in check by necessity and a general tolerance born from a life in Katapesh.
From an IC perspective there is really no reason why he would want to work together with a demon worshipper on a permanent basis.
He's very busy with his art classes and he apologizes vehemently. I'll be able to get a synopsis post up later today, however.
No worries! We can just put you in bot mode for a few days?
Eh, not a few days. It's not even the finals that have me all over the place. I have 4 studio classes, each of which takes up 2 hours a piece of my day, and I'm required to spend an extra hour outside of each one working on related stuff. So the times when I can post are few and far between, but usually involve that nice little bit of twilight hour where I'm about to pass out from joy and wake up for the next day's rollercoaster.
The upside is there's only 1 final exam, and it's a cakewalk.
As for botmode, well, that's up to Leinathen. I'm sure he knows how Dmitri tends to act at this point.
He's currently bothered alot by Apollo's sudden interest in leading them around, as he's only subserviant to women, namely Kori and the Harpy. He's pretty much aloof, otherwise. He has plans on being the first one into combat next time, however.
DMPC as you will, but I am going to try to post later today whether he does or not.
EDIT: Posted just now, actually.