I'll be back later to start combat with the creatures that are in there.
Give me an idea of the layout so I can throw a map together.
The peryton is in the mill center-ish, the gnolls are between us and it, and we are all in the doorway. Is that correct?
Also, did it already go, with the stare thing, or does it still need to go?
Also you forgot Dashki again.
Gah! So I did.
You are correct, Kori. The mill is essentially in a C shape, except with square edges. That movement upward was its motion. It doesn't have anything else to spend its actions on right now, so its just flying upward.
So, here is how I'm seeing the map from looking at the building and your description. The pole from the side is the beam of the mill wheel. It connects to the grinding stone in the middle of the room. The peryton is in the back half, and the gnolls were on their way back to the door. Is this about right?
Lein, whenever there are map images in the book, if you just e-mail the image (either a scan, screenshot, or just a grab of the pic itself) I can throw them into the map.
Ah, I imagined it in reverse.
I thought the Gnoll's were at the back and the Peryton was up front, otherwise Apollo would have probably just run straight at the Gnoll's and killed them in like 2 rounds....most likely. :p
Yes, Kori, you are right. Good job with that, and thank you.
On the other hand, I am waiting for Kori, Dmitri, and Angmar's actions (although I know Angmar's on vacation, I'm waiting to DMPC him till the others have posted).
I'm still relatively down the line. I'd prefer to wait on the guys before me. I watch this like a hawk, regardless, though.
Hmm, I can't change my actions now, but yea, I thought the Gnoll's were at the back and the Peryton closer, otherwise I wouldn't have dropped my hammer or 5ft stepped back to fire. Makes no sense. :/
The peryton goes first. I kind of need to know its action, if my ready goes off or not.
Okay, I've been looking over the whole grapple rules. If the peryton charged, it still gets its attack (I just interrupted its movement). If it wasn't charging, just moved, it still gets its standard action.
Both of these, however, suffer the grapple penalties (as my grapple happened after its move but before its attack).
Also, Dmitri, I think you're the last one to go before Lein moves on with the others.
I'm actually just waiting to see if it's still pinned when it comes my turn, but I'll post irregardless.
Kori would prefer the Longsword to the scimitar, if someone else wants the scimitar they are more than welcome to it.
As for the ring, with all the less than 30 speed heavy armor wearers, one of them should have a ring of jumping just so they might be close to positive numbers
Alright so decide who gets what and then we can go.
For Jump,
Angmar -6
Apollo -6
Dmitri -7
Hatim +4
Kori +1
I would say Dmitri, just for those numbers, but for loot I tend to be of the always bump the lowest to be closer to the others. The other way is to bump to good to perfect, since they will be jumping more often due to their present skills, which would be Hatim.
Kori gives her nine-ring broadsword to Angmar, as to her he has become the holder of all things to be sold (and under medium load he can carry more and not be as affected as she would)
I don't see myself jumping any time soon. :p
Still, my one piece of treasure....that ring of featherfall will hopefully save my life nicely!
Also, that -6 applies to ride checks doesn't it? I know it applies to all Str and Dex based skills, so I'd imagine so.
No, the -6 is a combination of things.
-4 for your Armor check
+2 for your Dex mod
-4 for every 10' of speed below 30
So, your ride check would only be a -2
Dmitri wouldn't mind having the ring, but then again, our WBL is kind of getting absurd at this point, no?
Multiple +1 weapons, I think we're up to... 4? now? Actually no that's probably accurate. I think a jump ring is 2k, as well. But no one here is aware it's a jump ring though, right? Don't we need a wizard for that? Or atleast a cleric that has knowledge: Arcane/spellcraft for some reason?
Well, we need a guy with Spellcraft, but Angmar knows it's magic (detect magic) and sees the jumping guy on it. He can infer. Also, he has a rank in Spellcraft, and that's what you need to identify things.
Trust me, I know the WBL is really absurd now. It's literally written in there, though, and loot actually doesn't come by often here. You'll go awhile without loot, I think.
So...Dmitri has the ring of jumping, Kori has the +1 longsword, Angmar has the +1 heavy mace, and who's got the scimitar?
Also, please keep your sheets updated with loot and the things that you're using.
Sadly Hatim has Spellcraft but no detect magic... which is a requirement to identify the object.
*Sarcasm* Maybe, just maybe, we could combine the powers of Angmar and Hatim. Muwhahaha! Okay, no.
Angmar was suggesting that the mace could go to Hatim. He may be interested, but Hatim walked out of the building like a lost puppy-dog. So... he can't take it at the moment.
@Hatim: We could have figured that out earlier. But as I stated Angmar would like to use it himself as it would allow him to sword and board in upcoming encounters. If you'll use it as your main weapon sure but if not I'd prefer to keep it as I'll actually be using it soon.
Also no point in bogging down Angmar with mundane weapons. If you will no longer use the sword let's just toss it.
Toss a magic sword worth 2320gp?
I'll be back later today to move us forward :D
No, he was talking about Kori's non-magic, which she was gonna hand to him.
Since no one said anything, Kori carries the longsword and the scimitar. She is just dropping her nine-ring broadsword like Angmar suggested (already reflected in her profile).
So I ended up with the ring of jumping somehow? That's a +10 to acrobatics checks to jump, right?
+5 from what I recall, bud. :)
I thought there was a +10 and a +20 version only. Hm. I think I was just going to have a +5 acrobatics jump from that, though.
Aaand in just a few I'll post.
I'm sorry, but it feels like you are using WAY too much previous experience with this module here.
1) Apollo doesn't know it's unlocked yet, as the sense that the GM describes to us has not said as much.
2) There's no reason to know that not everyone here is bad, why does he not assume it's just another gnoll? As far as we know, this whole town is taken over by gnolls, why do we suddenly not suspect this is just another one. The peryton was also on the border of the town, but was a vicious beast
3) No one knows it's a she, 'shrill birdlike' could just be a tengu, or a weird gnoll that talks weird. Heck, it could be a trained bird that says, 'Come inside, please' whenever it hears a knock. That it was a 'she' was not explained.
4) Someone who tells the knocker to come in, in a gnoll town, most likely assumes it's a gnoll. It could be gnoll friendly, expecting a gnoll, not anyone friendly just because you knocked.
It just burns me, because you pitched a fit about thinking it was metagaming to be able see an ally walk away in the middle of combat when there was nothing blocking sight. Now all of a sudden it's not metagaming to assume someone we've never met is friendly in a gnoll controlled town because you knocked and they said come in?
All I read in his post was "sex" and I automatically assumed he knew what was in there.
And that I might have to have sex with it.
And I lulled.
But yeah, I'm even of the opinion you might've meta'd too much on this one apollo :U
While we're on the topic, did anyone else hear that "Come in!" comment?
Everyone did!
*sigh* Shrill and birdlike... If this thing doesn't have above a 12 charisma I'm inclined to kill it for being an abomination among the female gender.
I don't know what's in there. Can't recall, bit the voice said come in....so Apollo went in, and the reference I said about sex and a witch was to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan.
I haven't meta'd at all actually and don't plan to. I remember other areas here and remembered the snake but said nothing.
It's been about 3 years since I played this.
The point is, it wouldn't say come in and then leave the door locked. Common sense really.
I also didn't say it was friendly. I said it could be. Plus, he knows a little about the battle market from being told of its trade when he worked in Katapesh.
I assumed it might be female on the grounds of my Conan reference....and the vision thing of my back is towards you was a long time ago. There's no need to use that against me. I'm not a rules lawyer but I know you are as you told me. Still, it's not cool constantly picking my posts apart when I just want to play and I am incredibly tired of this. I just don't care anymore. Had enough. It's completely stupid. Just let me play how I want to and please don't argue with me anymore. It's preventing me from having fun.
And lastly it's a market. That's one reason Apollo feels not everyone who visits may not be bad. :-/
What's the save for drowning in honey?
To point out EXACTLY what you wrote, to garner my replies
How would you know this? The GM at no point said "The voice inside said come in, and the tell-tale sound of the door being unlocked can be heard." Maybe it's on the GM at that point but you assumed. Have you never told some on to come in, but forgot or didn't realize your door was locked? It happens. Just because it said come in, doesn't mean it unlocked the door.
See, HERE is where you said she before you even made a Conan reference. ALso, how do you know not everyone's bad? How could you possibly know that? The only information we have is the town is overrun/controlled by gnolls (your mortal enemy), yet you think not everyone is bad? Heck, when you left the Millhouse, you were determined you were going to kill the gnolls in the next building. Then suddenly, anger abated and they may be friendly because you knocked for some odd reason, and they said come in?
Seriously? You knocked. If you thought there were or even could be gnolls in there, why would you knock? Wouldn't that give you away. From the description about the other building, I thought the gnolls came from this building with the goat, to go into the other one.
Plus, he knows a little about the battle market from being told of its trade when he worked in Katapesh.
That's odd, I've read your rather extensive backstory, multiple times (and have avoided mentioning any of the rules issues in it). At no point does he mention knowing anything about battle markets. Where has that been made clear by the GM? If that's the case, Kori has lived in Katapesh for probably three times Apollo's lifespan thus far, so I get to say I know all manner of things because of it? Backstories don't allow you to know things in game, unless the mechanics reflect it. It's a little thing I've seen before where people give themselves extra ability/knowledges because they wrote it in their backstory. Just because it's called a Battle 'Market', we have no reason to assume it's a regular market, and they deal with normal or not bad people all the time.
I'm not a rules lawyer but I know you are as you told me.
I am indeed, because the rules are unbiased. They are there to be fair for everyone. Like when I reminded the GM that not only did he still get an attack on me, but then the thing still had a chance to break free. Both were to my disadvantage, but it is always for the sake of fairness and balance.
Just let me play how I want to and please don't argue with me anymore. It's preventing me from having fun.
The key issue I keep running into is this line right here. Let YOU play how YOU want, stop preventing YOU from having fun. You are not the only one that is here to have fun. YOUR actions keep breaking MY verisimilitude, and MY immersion into the story, because you keep making non-supported claims/actions.
Most of the time when I point out something to correct you, I'm trying to offer wisdom/experience/advice/rules, but every single time you argue with what I offer, THEN I write long posts that become argumentative. I'm trying to make it so that we all fall under the same rules, and we all have fun together. As a social activity, we should be concerned with working toward the whole group's enjoyment. I've been holding back a lot of issues I've been having, because they were smaller one time things and didn't really affect the story. When I become upset enough to post my disagreements, it's because I've reached a point.
I consider you new to gaming, and understand missing or not knowing some of the rules. I enjoy teaching new gamers, and have brought many a beginner into the game. When you argue with me about the rules or make claims unsupported by them, and then refuse to listen to the voice of experience and knowledge, I consider you to be ignoring them so that you get the flavor YOU want from the game.
Does that mean I want you to stop playing? No, that means I want you to consider the rules and others, before you do things/make claims.
[/rant]
In other news, I'm gonna knock up a harpy.
Well, we all imagine things differently and just because I made my Conan reference after didn't mean it wasn't on my mind. I don't type everything I'm thinking ooc. There's no need and the way I play has been fine in every other game.
There's a point where pointing out every thought/critique you have on another player becomes annoying and every single area we venture to, you pretty much have to rant and pick holes in the way I play. It's far from fun, then you say it's all about me but it's not because you're the one making a big deal about it and saying how I should play and tbh it's incredibly patronising and I find it rude and unnecessary.
I play how I do. A shrill doesn't sound like any Gnoll Apollo's ever heard before, and the door....if someone says come in, one can safely assume in character the door has been unlocked....as Leim proved to be the case.
I also left it open, saying he walks in...where Lein could have then.said as you approach the door, it doesn't budge etc.
My extensive backstory is Apollo's reason for being in the adventure. It has nothing to do with his knowledge if the region.
He worked on the stalls of Katapesh for a long time, catching wind of rumour and all sorts. He's heard of Kelmarane, knows trade goes on and has heard of the battle market, but doesn't know what goes on in there, having never been himself until now.
Where we are currently is on the border of the town. Gnolls don't stop to speak and he knocked because he's spontaneous. You guys were all prancing about outside and when the door was locked, rather than taking ages, he got tired and knocked, having already scoured the area for patrols....and when I said he'll attack the gnolls in the next building, I didn't mean you to take it literally as in that's all he'll do...attack everything. If something is civil he'll likely.investigate first, as he did on this occasion.
You play YOUR character how you want to and I'll continue to.play MY character how I want to.
Dmitri doesn't seem to have issues with the way I play, so if you.don't agree with something I do, as I said before, roleplay it in character. Rules lawyers always drag things down from my experience and this is one of the worst experiences I.have had out of the lot of them.
Please quit complaining now and just deal with things. I don't meta, nor do I question the actions of other PC's generally. So stop please, because you.may enjoy this, but I don't and I refuse to have someone dictate what I can or cannot do. I don't even know why this harpy is in the building...male or female...what, it's an alchemist too? Apollo doesn't care. He wants Gnoll's and it's not a Gnoll so he'll happily move on.
I found another prestige class that would suit Dmitri like a glove. The Holy Vindicator has an ability that makes him bleed from ritual tattoos and gives him combat bonuses, and are typically fighter/clerics or paladins.
Also, Apollo, I'm afraid that I have to side with Kori here. Simply by your attitude, why would a person knock? The knocking was before the voice, so you can't use the voice for your justification.
I wasn't. Like I.said, the party were prancing around outside so he knocked. If a building is locked why would he bother breaking down a door when he could try to knock first.
He scouted the area. You said there were no Gnolls.
Hmm, no Gnolls? Ok. May as well knock on the door. We're far enough out to not attract unwanted attention from the central area. - Says Apollo in his head.
A person is allowed to knock on a door. Do you think he's afraid of being spotted? Not really. It wasn't out of character for him to knock. It's quieter than breaking the building and in case you all forgot, he's peed off with the entire party for ignoring him. Why does he want to listen or speak his mind? Simply put, he doesn't.
The voice which I clearly stated was what made him walk in to the building....which happened before he did. The knock was also before this. It's not hard for people to.understand....or so I thought.
Breakdown:
Door is locked
Party making their way round building
Apollo cba so knocked, taking the quieter approach
Voice then said come in
He went in
My reasoning is sound.
Apollo - Thoughts of Almah getting peed off with him and the party ignoring everything he had to say on the grounds he was careless beforehand when he wasn't at all. Everyone fought together and he didn't look for s fight with the stirges......is what is also playing heavily on his mind right now...so he's acting professional and.not trying to destroy everything....as he now has to prove himself because everyone else sees him as worthless which shouldn't be the case with his ic actions so it's clear ooc opinions are coming into play here, but whatever.
He feels fairly ostracised so will likely get himself killed by doing his own thing anyway.
I wasn't. Like I.said, the party were prancing around outside so he knocked. If a building is locked why would he bother breaking down a door when he could try to knock first?
Gnolls, Black Mamba, Peryton's, potentially lethal divine clerics, Gnolls, the undead, and just about half the things in bestiary book 1 below CR 6. Oh, and Gnolls. Did I mention the Gnolls? Because there are Gnolls.
But we found a harpy.
And I'ma do it.
I don't point out every thought/critique, or there would be a lot more. I point out the ones that seem to contradict either the rules or the seperation of player/character knowledge.
You didn't 'scout' the area you:
Apollo walks over to the door and looks around for any signs of activity once more.
Meaning you only looked for signs of activity from the doorway of the building we were in. Signs of activity, from the doorway, does not equal scouted
And the party wasn't:
prancing around outside
So far we walked up, it was locked. Angmar signalled going around, and Kori was about to. Two people acted since finding out it was locked, Two, yet somehow we were prancing around outside? Even then the only movement was him signalling, me preparing to sneak around. Where do you get prancing?
Do you think he's afraid of being spotted?
Apollo cba so knocked, taking the quieter approach
Since when is knocking the quieter approach than circling the building looking for another way in, or asking if someone can pick the lock (which Kori did in her own way)? There is also the contradiction in your own posts just from one to the next.
So he's not afraid of being spotted, then he decides to take the 'quieter approach'.
We're far enough out to not attract unwanted attention from the central area.
Yet there were, and we just fought, gnolls in a building even further away from the central area.
You signalled us all to stop, and rested your hammer on the ground while you knocked. To me that looks like a pretty heavy amount of confidence in the fact that you knew no threat lay beyond the door. He was calm and assured, and appeared to me to want to show us that we had no reason to either pick the lock or scout another entrance. Why when we could just knock and 'surprise' there is a non-combatant inside. It's just too convenient.
He feels ostracized because he's ignored? He's not ignored, in fact the group had spent a large portion of planning arguing with him what hit and run meant. Somehow he got it in his head we meant to hit 1 gnoll in a patrol and run, not one unit (patrol) of an Army (pack) then run.
He's not ignored for being careless. No one ignores him, and in fact any carelessness on his part has caused Angmar to be MORE attentive of what Apollo is doing. Just because the group doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean you are ignored, it means they heard.... and the majority still disagree with you.
Backstory does not give you free knowledge:
You are saying you know stuff based on the premise/backstory of the PC. Apollo knows all about gnolls, you have told us roughly before. Apollo is familiar with the battle market from his time in Katapesh. You're claiming his past before the adventure began gave him this knowledge, yet it does not. The skills he has, and what the GM tells him he knows do. "Do we know about Battle Markets?" "Sure, they're very common, and you know the gnolls are using theirs as a market as well."
Apollo's experiences and hatred doesn't let him know any more about gnolls than the rest of us. Just because it's in his backstory, doesn't mean he has the Knowledge Local he needs, and I think at least one of us made an untrained check to know as much as he could untrained.
He doesn't know any more about Battle Markets than the GM gives us, despite his backstory (which it isn't in anyways). Which would also be likely a knowledge Local.
"Kelmerane is one of a series of 'battle market' towns. They were designed to connect Katapesh and most of the world through a network of markets, and each of them is built around a huge circular structure called a 'battle market'. It is likely this battle market that the Kulldis tribe has set up shop in, and this likely concentration of enemy power is why I am advising caution when it comes to assaulting the town."
So according to what Almah told us, the term Battle Market is the name of a type of building. They WERE designed to connect the towns, but it was taken over. Now as far as anyone knows it is just a large circular structure, not a market.
Heck, I'm even annoyed at Dmitri's presumed familiarity with the Harpy (due to his religion, since they are monstrous humanoids), but can deal with it because he hasn't used it to claim loudly and vehemently that we should ask him if we want to know something about them (like Apollo has on more than one occasion). He just used it as a way to display just how twisted his upbringing was.
Look up scouting in the dictionary. It will lead you to reconnoiter, which gives this definition:
to inspect, observe, or survey (the enemy, the enemy's strength or position, a region, etc.) in order to gain information for military purposes.
so no, you're not correct in saying I wasn't scouting. I actively surveyed the area without moving to look around our then location, for any activity at all.
Prancing - Is an English phrase. Prancing about means you're messing about doing other things, which in this case was working your way around the building, drawing attention to yourselves. The door way in my head faces away from the center of the town, so stayuing there would keep you all out of sight from anything else that may or may not be around. Apollo was under the impression you were going to knock a door in or climb in through a window, making a lot of noise, so he placed his TWO HANDED hammer by his side, so he could knock on the door without coming across as intimidating if anyone of a good nature was inside, but could just as easily pick it up if something were, so no, it's not too convenient. As I said before, I don't recall this part so maybe my GM skipped it or we just didn't go here when I played it, or it was a session I missed, but either way, I'm not lying, so you're barking up the wrong tree.
Contradictions - Not being afraid of being spotted doesn't mean he'll actively go out of his way to be spotted. Use your brain logically and not anti-socially in an argumentative way because you disagree with my character concept, ideals, personality and the way I play him.
Lastly, the Gnoll-ledge (yes, Knowledge) - Yes, Apollo knows more than the party regarding Gnoll's. By how much exactly? +2 on all checks with them, being a Ranger and having them as his favoured class, which as a self proclaimed veteran of tabletop games, you should be fully aware of. He knows about them a little more than the average person, so has every right to claim he has knowledge of them. Does he know their tribes? No. does he know the monstrosity he's hunting down is a Gnoll? Yes. Does he know they have fur and pointy teeth? Yes. Does he know what they like and dislike? Partially. He knows they enjoy killing and assumes they hate anything that isn't Gnoll, but ultimately, knowledge checks will build his knowledge up.
Battle Market - It has Market in the name, Apollo knows of Markets, having been in one a good portion of his life. Therefore, he took in the words "Battle Market" as a market where battle takes place....aka an arena that can either include gladiatorial matches or equipment to purchase for battle/adventuring....or both. That's his in character interpretation of the name and won't be changing unless he finds things to be any different to what he had imagined.
How I play Apollo is sticking entirely and truthfully to how I've sculpted him in my mind. He assumes, uses his intelligence/gut instinct to act on and work things out, and if he's wrong he's wrong. He has a brain. He can think.
If you stop looking to accuse me for meta-gaming, you'll understand this, and I'm not going to reply anymore, so save yourself the bother of typing yet more argumentative statements and quit arguing so we can get back to the game...which is the only reason any of us are here.
Personal differences - throw them over there --->
They don't belong here.
So, here's a question. I said I was going to keep the largest potion on my side, which means that it's a Potion of Cure Moderate wounds, right? Zastoran is Cl 3, right?
So that means 2d8+3, no? Because I have the feeling I need to drink it.
As for the use of knowledge on the harpy, I do apologize. I've been feeling like I've been using that a bit too much lately...
In other news, I'm likely to take a point in Knowledge: Planes next level.
Yea, it'll be 2d8+3 unless Zastoran is a higher level than 3. :)
HP wise, you seen mine? I rolled like a 1 for level 2. Massive fail. My max HP is 14, 16 without Con damage/disease. :(
True... and I do have diehard, but I want to be the meat wall in the next grander fight. I'll just not drink it unless I go into negatives, though, or if someone gets on the verge.
Well, you'll have more luck than me that's for sure. :p
I might be able to take a single hit lol. Die Hard and Endurance are majorly good feats to have btw.