Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master Dreaming Warforged

If Kalsgrim dies here, and I have every reason to expect he will, I expect a large statue to be erected in his honor in the middle of the town. And when I say large, I mean taking up four five foot squares large. And none of this cheap stone crap; bronze at the least. Maybe mithril. Yeah, mithril.... :)

I'm headed to Florida; my mother-in-law is really sick. I'm not sure how long I'll be there, probably a week or a week and a half. I'm guessing I'll still be able to check online with some regularity, but if I'm not please DMPC to keep things moving.

Best wishes of health to your loved ones makofbane. Take care.

Level 5! Congrats. Gritty battle!

Level 5! Congrats. Gritty battle!

Please let me know what changes you made, in particular feats and spells.

Hit point rolls for level 5.

1d8 ⇒ 6
1d8 ⇒ 5

1d10 ⇒ 2
1d10 ⇒ 1

HAH! I fighter who constantly rolls like crap for hp's.

I would highly recommend letting Kriger die. With the pathetic hp rolls I'm constantly throwing out there, he's going to anyway. :P

1d8 ⇒ 7

Servayn has;
+8 hit points (6 +2 for Con)
+4 skill ranks (1 in Knowledge - religion, 1 in Profession - farmer, 2 in Linguistics (add Auran and Terran))
+1 Feat (Superior Summoning)
Note: I *think* that this is supposed to work with the summoner's summon monster spell-like ability. If you don't think that's right, I'll pick something else!
+1 2nd level spell (summon eidolon)
swap summon monster I for unfetter
unfetter is primarily an RP choice. I wasn't using the summon monster *spell* anyway...

Ember finally gets his wings!
+1 HD and +1 BAB
+5.5 hp, +1 for toughness, +2 for Con (total hp now 34)
+2 natural armor and +1 Dex bonus (total AC now 21)
+1 ability score increase (put into Con, raising to 14)
+1 Str/Dex (raising both to 16)
+4 skill ranks (all into Fly, which is up to +14)
+1 evolution (drop scent and trip, add flight (fly 40 ft., good maneuverability) and energy attacks (+1d6 fire damage to his bite and claw attacks))

Ember is on his way to dragon-ish-ness. (Eventually frightful presence and a breath weapon would make sense, as well as a size increase, and suitability to be used as a mount. Servayn intends to pick up Mounted Combat at 7th level.)

Servayn's choices remain a joke, optimization wise. Six cantrips ever, and he wasted one on read magic, which he's never going to use.

How many times would being able to speak to an earth elemental to get it to earth glide behind someone to set up a flank been more useful than that +10 in Use Magic Device, which we've never once in 5 levels had a use for? Ugh.

I'm a slow learner, but I'm starting to correct some of this and spend points on stuff that's actually going to be useful.

Then again, I just swapped out a spell for something that's purely for RP purposes, so, eh, maybe I'm just shuffling deck chairs. :)

Ember looks quite nasty still...

Set, did you get a chance to check about the metamagic rod?

I know we have this discussion every time you level up, but wouldn't it just be simpler to take half plus 1? No angst, no pain...

I'm good with Superior Summoning.

I know we have this discussion every time you level up, but wouldn't it just be simpler to take half plus 1? No angst, no pain...

Half plus 1 for hp is fine with me, in lieu of our current 'roll twice, pick one' scheme.

I'm good with Superior Summoning.

Thanks!

Ember looks quite nasty still...

He's finally got some good hit points and armor, for our level, so he should be less of a one-hit wonder. Being able to summon him via spell means that he can have the bonuses from Augment Summons for five minutes, if I've got a bit of prep-time.

Set, did you get a chance to check about the metamagic rod?

If we can order stuff from Restov, Servayn will definitely want to pick one of those up (lesser metamagic rod of extend), and possibly a cloak of resistance +1 and a mithril shirt for his 5000 gp. from the 25,000 gp. you mentioned us having. (That comes up to 5100 gp, but I can afford the extra 100 gp out of the 420 gp. I've gotten previously.)

Edit: Hey, I'm blind. Looks like we already had this discussion back in September, and I completely missed this response.

So change the order to just a mithril shirt, and that should eat up the last of Servayn's share of the treasure (and 100 gp. from his private stock).

hp: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 = 7 (favoured class point added to +1/2 intimidate and identify)
6 skill points spent (intimidate, knowledge arcana, dungeon, nature, planes, religion)
new feat: Combat Casting
new spell: Flames of the Faithful
New abilities:
Bane: Gives my weapon the bane quality to any enemy type I wish.
Discern Lies: Able to discern lies at will.
Judgements: Justice +2, protection +2, purity +2, Resiliancy 2

Will post up the new updated character sheet soon.

I'm letting people write their victory post before proceeding with the aftermath.

Also, some need burning, some need healing...

Btw, nice victory post markofbane!

I know we have this discussion every time you level up, but wouldn't it just be simpler to take half plus 1? No angst, no pain...

Is it cool if I go this route? I will happily forego rolling from now until the end of time if I can take this from now on. :)

I also wanted to say...

How about Servayn and his elemental taking down the fireball troll! That was freaking awesome to see those great rolls pop out!

Totally fitting. :)

Skill points = 7

Perception
Stealth
Survival
Climb
Intimidate +2
Dungeoneering

Haven't decided on a spell or a feat yet.

Kriger is stabilized and regains consciousness.

Which means I'm awake and able to speak?

Just want to be absolutely clear is all.

Yes, alive and not quite kicking.

(Ah! Hope you can't get it out of your head!)

I know we have this discussion every time you level up, but wouldn't it just be simpler to take half plus 1? No angst, no pain...

Is it cool if I go this route? I will happily forego rolling from now until the end of time if I can take this from now on. :)

Hey DW, you may have missed this. It was the first of my 38 posts in a row. ;) (I totally am not surprised you may have missed it. If I was seeing my own post again and again, I'd be like, "Does that guy ever shutup.") :)

Taking Furious Focus as my feat.

You think we oughta ask AK how he does the whole kingdom building bit? I know he's tweaked a bunch of stuff in that AP.

He might feel the same way about the kingdom building rules and implemented his own ideas to fix the issue.

Just a thought.

Okay, please replace your hp by half + 1, except for max at first.

That'll be much simpler for everyone.

I'll check AK's profile to see how he does.

I'll check AK's profile to see how he does.

You can check mine as I have copied his homebrewed rules, however with one single exception.

I added wands to the list of items that you can craft without paying 100% for it. Wands, potions and scrolls are all limited use items that are set at their base, unless you make the wand have a more powerful CL to it, but even then they're basic.

the 100% rule is because you can potentially break the game by syphoning money out of your kingdom with little to no unrest and then create so much magical gear you'll be equipped as if you were levle 10 adventures at level 4 :p Where as wands, potions and scrolls don't really make a group anymore powerful.

There's also the:

The 10% Magic Item Rule-(Via Alex K)

When looking for magical items for sale, if the cost of a given item is less than 10% of the cities base value, a roll is not required to find one.

The Kingdom-City Ratio House Rule (thanks Nethys)

The number of cities a kingdom can support is based off its size. A kingdom may have one city for every 5 size (min. 1). A kingdom of size 9 or less may only support one city. A kingdom of size 10-14 may have two cities. A kingdom of size 15-19 may have three cities, and so on.

But those are houserules for the GM to look over, I suggest looking a this actual game to see how effectively they do the kingdom building and there's always the other option where the building is done in the background (as per refered in the AP).

Okay, please replace your hp by half + 1, except for max at first.

That'll be much simpler for everyone.

Super thanks! That works for me.

Okay, please replace your hp by half + 1, except for max at first.

That'll be much simpler for everyone.

Is this for everybody, or can we choose?

Steve

I don't want to cause grief for those that rolled well. I can just keep my rolls if that's what it means for the others to keep their good rolls.

I'm the only one who's rolled like crap on hp's. I don't want to be the reason everyone else "loses" hit points because of me.

I'd rather just keep my rolls, if that's the case. I'd just feel guilty about the whole thing.

So I think Kalsgrim is sort of at a crossroads. I can certainly keep him and just run him in a more level headed manner, but I'm considering retiring him in favor of a wizard, or maybe a sorcerer. Any thoughts?

I hope he's not at a crossroads due to Kriger's talk. I promise his words were meant only in the sense of being worried about him getting killed. Not meant to put you down or anything of that nature at all.

And on a totally different topic: I did not realize you could use Action points to NOT fall when you reached negative hp's. That's a new one on me. Pretty wild.

The action points were something that SdF provided when he started this game way back when. I'm not sure if DW is still good with that or if he wants to switch over to the APG style. If you don't have the specifics on it, it is in Kal's profile.

And the talk of Kal going NPC isn't anything to do with Kriger's talk. It is something I've considered for quite a while. He hasn't necessarily been too effective, and I have struggled to find a groove for his personality, kind of vascillating back and forth between adherent of Erastil, Paladin, young man, responsible leader, etc.

I don't want to cause grief for those that rolled well. I can just keep my rolls if that's what it means for the others to keep their good rolls.

I'm the only one who's rolled like crap on hp's. I don't want to be the reason everyone else "loses" hit points because of me.

Depending whether 4 or 4.5 is considered the average of a d8 (or was it 'half' not 'average?'), Servayn would lose 2 or 4 hp total by switching over. I'm fine with that.

Indeed, I'm fine just donating 2 or 4 hp of my rolled hit points to the 'help Kriger catch up to average' fund. He needs them a heck of a lot more than Servayn does! :)

Davor: Thanks for the ideas. I haven't had a chance to give it serious thoughts yet, but I'll keep them in mind.

markofbane: I am fine if you don't feel Kalsgrim anymore. I had some ideas in mind for the down time to present ways for all to get better defined though. Let us know. A wizard would not start with raw cash, but more likely a share of the bounty.

All: markofbane raised it: I'm not so sure about Hero Points. They certainly make calculating CR even harder. What do you all think about it?

All: regarding hp, you wouldn't be able to choose. All players will work with the same system. Let me know what you think.

Hero points: I'm good with whatever the others wanna go with. I can take 'em or leave 'em. Matters little to me either way.

I've been using Action Points for Diplomacy rolls, for the most part, to advance the story, rather than in combat. They seem more useful for melee-classes than for spellcasters, IMO.

I like AP's because sometimes it sux to not be able to find something out or do something just because of unfortunate die rolls. The way we play them they are pretty powerful, but since you don't get that many every level, I think they should be fine.

I'm OK with the Average +1 HP. Janku will end up losing 4 hp's (That's been the only thing he was descent rolling), but if it makes the party stronger I'm OK with that.

Paizo's option hero point system is here. It seems toned down relative to what SdF started us with. The downside is it puts a little more on DW; he'd have to keep in mind to award them when he thought appropriate. I tend to like some system like this (in my games I used to have Fame and Fortune points), but I would completely understand if DW wanted to drop them at this point.

As far as hit points go, I am good either way. When I get a chance, I'll review Kal's rolls for past levels to be ready to adjust as necessary.

Based on what people have said and some more thought on my part, I am going to keep Kalsgrim. This whole fight will be a life lesson for Kal, and he’ll be more cautious and worldly, less Lawful Stupid. He’ll be a bit quieter and a little more brooding, at least for a little while. But he’ll also be more tactical. I'm looking forward to what you have in mind to better define characters. And I'll consider how I want to gear him up based on the loot. I know it will revolve around the Stag bow, whatever it may be.

Level Up:
Paladin 5
Hit points 1d10 ⇒ 1
+1 BAB
Feat: Precise Shot
Divine Bond: Spirit Bond.
Add 1 1st level spell per day.
Skill points: 4: Diplomacy, Knowledge Religion, Sense Motive, Ride.

Kal's hit point rolls have been 7, 5 and 9. 10 at first and now 1. He would gain two hit points by going average, but I will go with the majority.

With both Kriger and Kals below average, Servayn will definitely go for average hit points, or just be willing to hand out the two to four hit points he is below average to the front-liners, if that's an alternate option. (Hit point rolls as shared group resource, whacky idea!)

I really appreciate you guys willing to sacrifice some hp's. I still feel bad I rolled so crappy and it wound up coming down to this. It's really irritating.

Davor? What is your input on the half + 1 hp's/level?

I have been looking at the numbers a little. At fifth level, the average wealth is 10,500 gp. Right now in the Other Mastermind profile we have about 21,000 gp worth of stuff to claim or sell, so about 10,500 gp worth if we sell it all.

Kalsgrim has about 7350gp worth of stuff, but I'll want to sell around 4500 gp taking him down to around 5000 gp. Depending on the value of the troll treasue, we may get pretty close to the book average.

When we are back in Providence and dealing with the troll treasure, we can deal with the stuff we have sitting in OM's profile as well. When we are done, there isn't really any reason we couldn't have everything on that list identified, claimed and/or sold.

I think we can also use this as an opportunity to get everyone's wealth levels pretty close to even. I think Kalsgrim has made out better than most, getting a magic sword and a magic bow. I think it time some of the others catch up to him.

And just to clarify, I'm looking at putting Kal in more of a shooter role and less front line and see if that works for us. Ember, Kriger and Davor seem to have the front line for us pretty well.

I'm glad to hear Kal will stay with us a while longer!

I'm glad you decided to keep him as well.

I was wondering how you were gonna go with him. In my opinion, there's really no way you can go both melee and ranged. Not as a Paladin anyway. There's just not enough feats allowed.

Regarding Kingdom Building, I've been looking at the way things were run and AK's house rules.

AK's house rules don't cover the Income check, which is the crux of our problem...

On the other hand, regarding our leadership in the first months, it seems we've missed some key allocations of leadership to support Economy rolls.

I think that if we stay with what was learned in the last months of kingdom building, continuing with the year of peace with no event, you should be able to bring things up. Furthermore, the loot will contain some BP equivalent, so that should give you another little boost.

If it just doesn't work, or people loose interest, we can simply fold that part and keep going with the kingdom truly in the background.

Unless Davor presents a compelling argument, I'm going to go with half+1 for hp.

At your level (5), that gives

d10: 34
d8: 28
d6: 20

I'll be moving the story back to Providence shortly.

If Kalsgrim dies here, and I have every reason to expect he will, I expect a large statue to be erected in his honor in the middle of the town. And when I say large, I mean taking up four five foot squares large. And none of this cheap stone crap; bronze at the least. Maybe mithril. Yeah, mithril.... :)

I also wanna say, I just fell out on this! :D

K, Servayn is adjusted to 38 hp.

The worry I've got about the Kingdom-building is that we've min-maxed *the hell* out of our Economy rolls, in a futile attempt to dig our way out of this hole, and dumped Loyalty and Stability into the toilet, in the process. Almost everything I've built has gone into Economy (or reducing Consumption), and we've been putting our Spymaster and Ruler bonuses into Economy every year.

If we ever have to make a Loyalty or Stability roll, we are going to fall down so hard we leave a crater.

Any suggestion then? We could lower the DC?

Any suggestion then? We could lower the DC?

I have no idea, really. If there's one thing my attempts at making it work have proven, is that I have no idea how it's *supposed* to work, since it seems like it would require well-above average rolls for our *well-above average group,* with means, barring *something* I've missed, it's impossible for the average group.

Are the random events a mix of good things and bad things, that could, in theory be giving us opportunities that we've missed out on? (Given our luck, we'd get all bad events anyway...)

Is there some sort of manner in which we could use skill checks to modify our rolls, perhaps by using Diplomacy checks to modify our merchants sell prices, or broker trade deals with other nations, or is that all 'built in' to the Leadership roll modifiers and Economy rolls?

I thought we were going to skip the kingdom stuff, but if not, I should take Craft Wondrous Item, instead, so that I can try and convert my share of coin into items that we can sell, if that's possible, to boost our Economy. (On the other hand, if I can only sell it through the kingdom at the usual 50% value, which is the same as or less than the creation costs, depending on rolls, that would be a waste of time.)

I'll accept eating a feat and having no coin for myself, if that's what it takes to make this system work.