So, DM, what would it take to work out a way to tap into Book of Whispers communication? Are we in "research a new spell" territory? Craft Wondrous Item? Some kind of skill challenge?
It would be neat flavor to invent some kind of magical device that has to be physically added to the book. If Bannerhold uses case-bound books like those that became common starting in the early 19th century, then it could be a slip of rune-covered paper inserted into the spine of the book where it's unlikely to be detected. But if they're still using medieval codices where the binding is adhered to the spine and the boards, well, that would be more difficult. Those suckers are built like tanks. There's no really good space to slip things in without plenty of time and access to a well equipped bindery.
Or more magic, of course.
Dangit, this browser had the wrong default character selected and now I can't edit that. Boo, hiss!
As far as you would know right now, Beaumont and Faedi have one or likely more of the traditional Book of Written Whispers.
There are several things I would allow you to try/research regarding hacking into a book of whispers. Unless you're using really powerful divinations, these would all require access to the book at some point. Inserting a page that copies and transmits to you would work with some craft(bookbinding), K arcana, spellcraft, 500 gp of magic components, and 1 hr. Time can be cut in half by rushing but this increases all the DCs by 5. I can give details on other aspects if you like or you could try doing it on a test book and to see how high the DCs are, etc. Great details on the bookbinding. This is medieval style based on my head canon of the approximate technological timeline.
How about the following: We go in from the supply chain side of things - he has to acquire them somewhere, right, if they are only 25 messages each and there is likely to be correspondence or longer messages to clarify stuff.
I'd imagine each spicy bit of information they exchange will take at least 5 if not more of those messages just to transmit basic information with sufficient clarity.
So a somewhat steady supply would be needed. He probably has them either stockpiled and/or receives them in bulk.
I mean, we could of course try and "hack" into the book he is using, but it does seem easier to find the source and then do a man-in-the-middle attack.
That way we would give him a book, keep the page, have a book, give him the page.
He passes the page we give him on to his contact.
He writes in his book, we have the info on our page. We duplicate(forgery) the info in our book, his contact gets the page. They respond, he gets the answer, nobody is any wiser.
But even if he rips out his page, we still have our copy left, and if the whole process is sanctioned and observed by imperial authority, should be valid as evidence. Plus we may be able to very subtly alter messages to entrap them further.
Of course we'd still need access to the books in that scenario, but I think it would be easier to get into his stash, or intercept a delivery, than it would be to access the one he is using. Just a thought.
PS: I am aware there is still the "Cypher" to be had, but I also doubt that would be very secure if it remained the same all the time. And if it's altered I'd expect it to be part of the shipment, as in, each book comes with a pre-generated strong passwort (as there does not seem to be a process in the magic item that allows "setting" one up during first use) and the last message of the previous book basically is used to transmit the new one - that way you'd remain reasonably "safe" as even if your passwort is leaked, it would be set to a new one within a reasonably time frame. But I may be wrong on how that is handled, of course.
Man, the design of this magic item is weirdly complicated. Why not just have a paired set of books, and when you write in one the text also appears in the corresponding book? I have to wonder if it was originally written to fill the needs of a specific plot in a published adventure.
In order to have regular two-way communication, both Amrynn Faedi and Duke Beaumont need to do the following:
1. Acquire a Book of Written Whispers.
2. Tear out the 25 secret letters.
3. Arrange to transport the secret letters to the other one.
4. Repeat when they're running low on messages.
They have to be restocking pretty often, because each message can only be 25 words. One book is good for exactly 625 words. I guess you have to use extra-large expressive handwriting, because man, that's like two pages worth of text otherwise. "Book" is a pretty generous term in this case. More like a pamphlet.
I have to wonder if Amrynn Faedi is the one supplying the books. It would go like this:
1. She makes a Book of Whispers for herself.
2. She tears out the secret letters and puts them in a box for Beaumont.
3. She makes a Book of Whispers for Beaumont.
4. She tears out those secret letters and sets them aside for herself.
5. She puts Beaumont's book in the box.
6. She casts Teleport Object to dump the box in a dead drop in Bannerhold without leaving the comfort of her study.
7. She uses the last message of the previous book to alert Beaumont that there's a new box with a fresh book/stack of secret pages to pick up at the dead drop. If she's smart, she also takes this opportunity to tear out all the pages in the finished Book of Whispers on her end, thus destroying Beaumont's secret letters and erasing that evidence.
The only tricky one is the first box, supplying that initial Book of Whispers and stack of secret letters. But seriously, that doesn't seem like a huge deal. Same procedure, except that she disguises herself as a human, teleports to Bannerhold, and uses Apport Object to drop the box into his carriage while it's parked somewhere with a note on top explaining what it is and why he might want to use it.
If Beaumont is supplying his own books, he probably has a wizard in his employ who's making them. We might look for regular purchases of 3K worth of reagents suitable for crafting such a thing. That might help ID who's making them. But in this case, a man-in-the-middle attack would only get us half the conversation -- Beaumont's messages to Faedi, but not hers to him since the secret letters containing her messages are technically tied to a separate magic item.
Then there would have to be some kind of regular exchange of secret letters. Couriers and dead drops could work for that. I'm guessing Faedi wouldn't take that risk personally on a regular basis, but she may well have an apprentice who could teleport to Bannerhold in disguise to drop off secret letters for Beaumont and collect the ones from him.
You guys could try gather information relevant to a question or two, K history to see if there are any oddities in the local magical economy, and other things you may think of to help sniff out leads! Or you could try breaking into Beaumont's manor somehow for some goal.
What I can't quite wrap my head around is why they would use this system.
I mean, the communication tool provided by Count Aral exists in-universe and they are certainly in a position powerful enough and with sufficient access to resources to acquire one of those.
The fact they did not, but instead stick to this archaic process with significant limitations and overhead, including risking additional interactions like shipping the secret pages to each other, possibly via diplomatic channels or dead-drops, must have some reason.
I mean, GM would not have had to re-develop the wheel here, a perfect tool for the communication already existed. But they stuck with this method. I feel if we understand why, that could help us find a vulnerability, but I'm not able to come up with a good reason.
You can hide things, and destroy messages on the other end, but the additional overhead kind of diminishes any security.
You could provide certain pages to others, distribute them, to form a multi-person group - (as in, I could write one message only to this guy, or use a second page that was shipped to someone else to let them know as well - maybe useful for instructions or as emergency thing.) You could also hand the written pages to someone else, if there was a point in doing so.
We also don't know certain interactions...what if, say, she stores them in a extra-dimensional space, or anti-magic field - after they were filled with content. Both methods could override the 'destruction' command from ripping out pages - there would be no "pointer" but the information may be left as fragmented magical data artefacts or something the moment she pulls them back into normal space.
Maybe I am overthinking and it's just that the text is hidden and encoded. But I can't help but be convinced that both of these people could keep a single book secure and hidden, by magics or otherwise, and only access it themselves.
Always bringing a page along for urgent messages seems...overkill for the type of grand tactical scheming going on. I will think about it a bit more, welcoming input or thoughts, then will try and do a gameplay post with some research and knowledge checks.
I wouldn't overthink too much here. Beaumont is a political genius but not necessarily a magical one. Faedi may have her own ways of covering her butt but she isn't your primary target.
I think the sewer escape tunnel is probably the right way to go. I'm sure there is something cleverer we can do, but I'm just not sure how to get there.
That said, if someone else does have a concrete plan and is holding back out of politeness, please shout out now!
I was thinking of doing some scrying via insect spies before we go in, but that can be done as a flashback if needed, and is likely to have only minor benefit.
I know we need to move forward, but I'm just not clear on ... well, a whole lot. We need to find the book(s) of whispers, a pile of secret letters from Faedi's book(s) of whispers, and the book with the passwords to decrypt those.
Suppose we get inside. What then? We're just going to wander around in the hopes of finding all that stuff lying around in plain sight?
Suppose we get in and don't find what we're after. What then? We'll have alerted Beaumont that his estate can be entered via the sewers, and he'll naturally move fast to close that off.
If we just go in, hoping for the best, are we trying to avoid detection? If so, what can we do to help make that happen? Invisibility? Silence? Telepathic Bond? As usual, full-party stealth is only as good as the lowest roll in the party. If we run into people inside and combat breaks out, are we just going to fight the whole estate? We don't know anything about the capabilities of his guards/wizards, which makes it hard to prep for a massive fight like that.
Do we know if the place has a teleport trap on it? I mean, it seems pretty likely, but we should know that first so that we'll know if teleportation is an option for getting out if we need it. That would also be pretty easy to learn from outside, just by walking by with Detect Magic running and looking for the aura.
We've been sitting around staring at this problem for weeks now, and I know we have to do something to get forward motion. But I -- the player -- really dislike just going in with no clear idea of where to go or how to get what we want.
I can help with some of that.
You scope things out and determine there is a teleport trap on the mansion. You also get a good look at the guards and can roll K local
Okay cheese team, is there a way to cast a self-only spell like beast shape or (ideally) possession on others?
Sorry for the slow responses, I was on vacation and traveling all last week.
Here's that Knowledge (local) roll for info on Beaumont's security staff.
As for shape changing spells, I'm not aware of any way to cast a personal only spell on other targets. Paizo was always very careful about not letting those personal spells leak out. Occasionally they made some exceptions, like Glimpse the Hidden, which is a version of See Invisibility that can be put in potion form. But it's higher level and round/level instead of 10 mins/level.
For turning people into animals, Polymorph is the first thing that comes to mind. It can replicate Beast Shape II on another creature. But its duration is one minute per level, which is considerably shorter than we would need for a proper scouting mission.
Baleful Polymorph comes to mind. You could choose to fail the Fortitude save, thus becoming the animal. The duration is permanent, so plenty long enough. The effect could later be dispelled (noting that a caster's Dispel checks are always successful against their own spells). But it's risky, because if your target fails the Will save they drop to animal intelligence, which would make them considerably less useful as a scout. Also, depending on whether they lose their memories of their previous life, they might try to run away and go live their best life as a vole or whatever.
Shapechanger's Gift might fit the bill. Duration is 10 mins/level, and the target can shift back and forth between the animal form and their own when they like. But it only does Beast Shape I, so it only goes down to Small size. And no flying. There's a Greater version which is an hour per level and allows flying and a wider variety of forms. But it still doesn't go any smaller than small, and anyway the greater version is a 7th level spell that we probably don't have easy access to.
Ah, in which case the complicated version of this probably doesn't work.
I'm thinking Hal gets a diminutive bird, hits it with greater magic aura for "just a bird" then possesses it. That'll let him scout, and he shouldn't trip any alarms (or Alarms) that wouldn't trip for a bird.
I've hold making any knowledge checks yet 'cos of this.
Not sure how useful scouting is going to be if we have a good map, and we are not going to emulate particular servants, so maybe we drop this one. The fact Hal then can't chat is a bit annoying as well.
Turns out there is a detect metal spell that could look for lead. Hal doesn't have it, but could fudge a single cast, albeit at cost. If he doesn't engage in anything that makes him break concentration he could probably keep it up for a good quarter of an hour or more.
This means shepherding him around, I guess, but I think the odds of finding a safe go through the roof (as for obvious reasons the spell is not stopped by the normal nonmagical materials)
There's no guarantee that Beaumont has a hidden lead lined stash, but it seems like something he'd do. if he doesn't then more conventional detections become viable.
Both of these are minor changes to the "break in via sewers" plan. Either can be done with essentially no prep.
I do not want to hold up the group!
That said I still haven't picked all Hal's spells, so he will need 30 minutes or so before they go in, ideally once he knows what to do.
Hal still has Brilliant Planner if someone can think of something clever, but I think we're down to Stealth and Disguise. Brilliant Planner for appropriate clothes might be good, but I'm guessing most of us can get around that anyway. Probably better to save it for something unexpected inside.
If Hal "Magic Aura"s everyone we could at least prank Beaumont by disguising everyone as a shapeshifted high level elven magister! More likely a bland "nothing to see here" aura would be the way to go.
I guess most of us are pretty good at blending in, and there are spells to help, but even if we know where we are going I think there might be a decent chance of tripping an Alarm spell or something.
Mind controlling a servant to escort us around and do passwords probably makes sense, but is not in Hal's bailiwick.
Hal's plans are very interesting! I think something like that could go a long way.
Mel determines that the guards are a mixture of wizards and fighters, surprise! The fighters are very melee oriented for close quarters combats, relatively perceptive for fighters, and level 7. The wizards are also level 7 for the most part except for the level 11 wizard who leads security. They are all focused on abjurations and conjurations.
Some ways to put Personal spells on others that come to mind:
1. Pop it into a ring of spell storing or similar item.
2. Be Brown Fur Transmuter
3. Put it into an alchemist's extract and have the infusion discovery. Watch your melee allies rejoice as you pass them long arm, shield, etc.
I also like the scouting-as-a-bird plan. Particularly with Greater Magic Aura, a highly underrated spell.
I imagine there must be people selling birds in the city, so it shouldn't be too terribly hard to acquire a thrush or similar. Then we can guard Hal while he gets a birds-eye view.
So Hal's spell loadout is
0 (4): Prestidigitation, Light, Message, BLANK
1 (6): Secluded Grimoire (Cast), Mage Armor(Cast), Vanish, Ears of the City, False Face, Heightened Perception(J)
2 (6): Tears to Wine(cast), Aram Zey’s Focus (cast), Full Pouch, Aram Zey's Focus, See Invisible (J), Detect Thoughts (J)
3 (5): See Beyond (cast), Dispel Magic, Suggestion, Fearsome Duplicate, BLANK
4 (5): Lesser Age Resistance (cast), Greater False Life, Black Tentacles, Bit of Luck (cast), Greater magic Aura (cast)
5 (3):Teleport, Possession, Possession
Secluded Grimoire, See Beyond and Lesser Age Resitance are cast every morning
Secluded Grimoire will need to be recast for the second memorisation using a Pearl.
Mage Armour will be cast on the thrush before going in. He'll use a Pearl to cast it on himself before he goes in in person.
Greater Magic Aura will be cast on the thrush before possessing it.
Aram Zey's focus will be cast on himself pre thrush. Probably recast later.
Bit of luck will be cast on himself pre thrush
A Tears to Wine boosted to CL 15 (via Belt and Focussed Spells) will be given to anyone (inc thrush) pre thrush. Should last long enough and a +10 enhancement bonus to all Int and Wis checks could make all the difference.
I took possession twice because of how embarrassing it would be if the thrush made its saving throw after all this. Hopefully just takes the one though.
Is anyone waiting on anything from me? Is anyone else casting pre-scouting?
Let me check my vast list of spells -- nope, not casting anything.
If you happen to know Haste, that would be a solid use of that open level 3 slot. Haste makes your martials very happy.
Mel will partake of the Tears to Wine this time, which will do marvelous things for her skills.
Let's get this show on the road!
In which case I'll fill the blank with Haste if Brookside GM is okay with it?
Is the plan to find the secret entrance and then Hal scouts, or to carry his unconscious body around?
Haste is fine, yes.
I think we find the secret entrance and then Hal scouts. After all there's no reason we can't send the bird in through the secret entrance. Though a closed door would pretty much stop a thrush in its tracks unless there's a big gap underneath or something.
Hal: You guys have been led to the sewers and spotted the place of the secret section of wall that can open and a small lever. The party is basically asking you to handle it, checking for traps, going in to scout, whatever may be. Does that answer your question about where you are in the plan? If so, what buffs are active then?
It does, thanks. I thought Hal was going to scout pre sewers, which is I think where I was getting confused.
On the plus side this means Hal won't need to be a bird for very long, so duration is probably not an issue.
On the negative side a bird cannot open a door, or see in the dark, and someone might need to cart his body around.
So I propose:
Hal brings his Draconic Ally (still has some duration left) with the party.
Hal already has Lesser Age Resistance, See Beyond and Secluded Grimoire. I think all those spells will only work on Hal's body.
He can then cast
Tears to Wine boosted to CL 15 (everyone, inc Thrush, with Alchemy hopefully serving to make sure the bird is not poisoned)
Greater Magic Aura (on thrush)
Greater False life (on Hal)
Mage Armour (on thrush AND on Hal)
Aram Zey's focus (on Hal, assuming if cast on him it still works in thrush)
Bit of luck (on Hal, assuming if cast on him it still works in thrush)
Heightened
Heightened Senses (on Hal, won't work when in bird I think?)
Hal will hand out Deoderizing Agent (5) and Vermin Repellent (5). I don't think these will help much, but might make hanging out in a sewer a little less awful. Actually the deoderizing might be very useful if we are sneaking around upstairs afterwards.
Hal will look for traps (disable them if needed) then open the door in human form and have a very quick look.
He'll proceed through (with the group, carrying the thrush) until they come to a place that allows travel into the open.
At that point Hal will possess the Thrush and check it out. He can come back from time to time because the draconic ally's 60ft telepathy will allow everyone to (awkwardly) talk.
I'm guessing once we've done enough scouting we carefully make our way to the evidence, but that probably depends on the outcome of the scouting.
Does this work?
Yeah I sort of jumped you guys forward to being in the tunnel bc I was trying to help things happen.
Just to clarify, Hal. Are you asking me whether this works or asking the party?
Also, you are welcome to go ahead and check for traps, etc. IC on that secret door you have found in the sewer.
No, all good, sorry.
I guess I was asking both you and the party. There is definitely a question about which spells will affect Hal when he is in the bird - possibly only spells cast on the bird, and even mental effects like See Beyond don't work?
Have we got any duration limited spells on? Hal has a Book of Puzzles if time is not an issue. I figured there would not be time though.
The roll May 25 was for check traps (Hal has Trapfinder) but I was not sure what bonuses to add. Sounds like ALL OF THEM!
+5 circumstance from See Beyond
+2 circumstance from Heightened Awareness
+10 enhancement from Tears to Wine
+2 untyped from Aram Zey's Focus
perception roll of 18 becomes 37
If he uses his Fortune Teller feat and Rod of Extend on Aram Zey's Focus it will last (CL+2)*2 minutes, so 24 minutes. That's the smallest duration.
So, regarding Hal's stats, here are the stats for a Thrush. The relevant text from the spell specifies:
You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities. The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities.
Since your retain your level and mental abilities, you'll be rolling things like Perception using your normal stats (plus any buffs you have running). Your Stealth, which should be relevant, will use the thrush's Dex mod (+2) instead of Hal's usual Dex mod, but you keep any ranks you have in it.
You can't cast spells, unless they happen to lack any verbal, somatic or material components. I did once have a character who could pull that off, but it took a bunch of mythic tiers to make it happen.
Thanks, issue is more around which of the many, many spells Hal is under affect him while he is in the thrush.
It would make sense to me that his augmented mental atts would still be augmented.
It would also make sense that any physical augments (eg Mage Armor) on the thrush still work.
The real trick is spells like Aram Zey's Focus that grant skill boosts.
Fortunately a thrush can (though should not) drink Tears to Wine ale, so can be enchanted seperately.
The Greater Magic Aura was also cast on the thrush itself, which should help.
Yeah, no spells... technically I think Hal might be able to cast one spell with no V S or M, but has to be carrying his staff to do so. Even if we taped it to the thrush and raised its strength that might be a tad conspicuous ;P
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And now I'm imagining a slightly tipsy possessed thrush flying awkward zig-zags through the air, chirping an off-key rendition of "We Are the Champions".
"It's not a matter of how it holds it. It's a sheer matter of weight ratios!" yes very good. Carry on.
Things that buff your mind can carry over to the thrush. Things that buff your body, I'd say mage armor does, have to be cast on the thrush. Make sense? I can rule case by case if helpful. I'll say Aram Zey's Focus buffs your mind.
Thanks!
Thinking a bit, and if Hal is waiting for the door to crack open anyway, and the area inside is not a literal sewer I think he might lie down there to do the whole possession thing. He's got low standard for sleeping space, but an actual sewer probably pushes even his boundaries.
Seems like a fair standard.
Happy for Hal to stick his head through for a glimpse, then go on through - hopefully stealthily (do you want a stealth roll?)
I don't want to hold everyone up - do we want the other PCs closing in, but staying within 60ft? In which case he should mention the Alarm and continue on.
I think mention the alarm on the theory that it's best to know about it, then press on. If the thrush runs into a problem it can't handle on its own we can always come in. And if it dies horribly to a dire house cat, well, then Hal will just wake up with a new sympathy for birds.
Sorry to be so slow this week! I had a work conference and should have given a heads up.
A good roll on that stealth check from Kazador! Pity about the total lack of a modifier.
Speaking of that, back at the beginning of the Tyron Alabaster abduction, Hal bought six does of silence powder. Mel used hers in that fight. But perhaps Kazador has his still? If so dusting his boots with that would net him a +5 on auditory stealth checks.
A good point. Up to the GM if that would be usable, it certainly wasn't something that I waws tracking.
But yeah. A heavy armor build that doesn't invest in stealth? Stealth checks tend to be terrifying. I'm just glad that Kazador at least managed to get to a net neutral modifier...
Thanks to Brilliant Planner Hal can always have the right ingredients... well, once a day at least.
That said, I think spreading it out was the plan https://paizo.com/campaigns/DefenseOfBrookside/discussion&page=88#4356
Brilliant planner can take care of it, sure. I'm unclear on whether the silence dust was ever spent.
Are we waiting for me? As per referenced post, every character should have 1 silence dust.
Apologies and thanks for the poke! The action was on me and I missed that.
I'm traveling for the next seven days and may have limited availability.
I'm kind of stuck here. Wandering around the main level of the house in broad daylight seems like an invitation to a huge fight that gets us very little information.
We could go climb up the secret escape chute, I guess? It's still risky. But less so than just poking around the kitchen until some unsuspecting cook shows up and screams, bringing tons of guards down upon our heads.
Yeah the plan was for Hal to scout alone until the rest of the party came to check out that trap door in the basement. So it probably makes sense to keep a focused scope for what the rest of the party is doing right now. Especially since only Hal is diminutive, the magic size maximum for not tripping alarm spells.
I think maybe the Thrush has gotten us what it can? I'd like Hal to get an idea of who is around (and memorise 5 or 6 faces well enough to use disguise if needed), and perhaps what sort of security we have to deal with.
It's possible that a disposable scout might be more useful than a so-so combatant, but Hal has the Disable Device skill so is likely worth having with thumbs.
Given that, I think he can just return to his body and walk up to the others.
What do people think?
Great, let's do that.
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Sorry for my slow period over here. Friends in town, their tiny kids waking me up multiple times a night, work deadlines, illness. Hooray.
Me too, we've had renovations and covid and a convention one after another
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Sorry for slow responses, people. I just got back from GameHoleCon in Madison. It was pretty awesome. Among other things, I met Ed Greenwood and got to have a nice five-minute chat with him.
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I have an interview for a faculty position this week so I'll be a little extra distracted. Sorry!
Good luck!