That would sure be interesting, then. What say, Hal? You up for trying to trap Cust in his own teleport trap?
Though I'm pretty sure Mel wouldn't think of this. She has knowledge arcana, but this is getting to be pretty high-level magic, and I don't think it would really be covered by her Survey of Arcana for Non-Majors class.
@Melia - this is awesome
More than happy to suggest it, though I feel bad about Hal taking the credit for your idea!
Back to the Cust manor!
DM, how would you like to resolve this? If it were a standard magical trap based on a level 7 spell, the disable device DC would be 32 (25+spell level). Failing that with a 27 or lower would cause some kind of mishap -- perhaps teleporting us to whatever horrible place Cust devised to dump unwelcome teleportations.
And turning it to our advantage would add 10 for a whopping DC of 42, using the bypass mechanics, which is a pretty tall order. It'll have to be a team effort.
Mel has a +11 to Disable Device (+9 without her tools) so she can aid another even on a nat 1. And she can use her Community blessing to make that aid another grant +4 instead of +2. I would happily contribute a hero point to this if I had one, but alas I'm fresh out.
Perhaps Túrion has a spell that could provide some sort of bonus? Or Aid Another with Knowledge (Arcana) because it's a spell trap?
And I note that Kazador has Teleportation Mastery. Perhaps the GM would let spending a use of that count as an Aid Another check?
42 sounds about right. It is a pretty epic effect.
Hal has a base of 19 and would need to roll a 23...
Hmmm. 3 aid anothers could give +6.
If Hal recasts and maxes out his luck spell I think he can get to +2d8-2. CL 16 gets an additional +d8, but I do not think he can get there.
He's currently only at +2 enhancement to dex, so could get that to +4 for an additional +1.
trapsringer's gloves adds an untyped +5 competence.
We should be able to buy masterwork equipment for an additional +2 competence right? Not sure theives tools work for this.
Book of puzzles could allow a reroll, but takes an hour.
Best case I can see if everything works is 10+, roll twice.
I re-checked, but I'm afraid except for knowledge there is little I can provide/help with.
For your math - I think you do have Aram Zeys Focus, but that should also give you better trapspotting - you do have Trap Finder listed but not sure where you got it from. If it's not from a class feature Aram Zey should override that and give you +5, I think. (which should not be limited to mechanical or disarming).
As for the re-roll, I can also fetch Fennith so she can use the Fates Shears on you if needed.
"Forcing" you to re-roll you most recent check should work, so we'd have that covered.
Someone is getting a nasty surprise out of this. Either Cust, finding out he's been trapped by his own teleport trap -- or us, when we accidentally teleport ourselves into some kind of hideous death trap.
@Melia Now now, it might be a very pretty death trap ;P
@Túrion
Trap finder comes from the trait of the same name. Out of mummy's mask, IIRC. Just lets him disarm magical traps.
The gloves give +5 or level/2. So +5 either way.
The downtime rules do have a way of throwing money at a skingle skill check to get a bonus but I do not think we are using them.
At the GM’s discretion, you may affect any activity you have in the settlement (downtime or otherwise) by spending Goods, Influence, Labor, or Magic. This gives you a lot of leeway in terms of what you can accomplish using downtime resources. In general, every 1 point of Goods, Influence, Labor, or Magic spent allows you to add a +1 bonus on one skill check (maximum +5).
I am surprised there is not something alchemical to help.
Sorry for my slowness again. Whole family was sick again, covid this time.
Yes the DC sounds right. Curious to see how this works out.
Also, yes to the unorthodox aids from Kazador casting and Turion's knowledge.
Okay, does someone want to check my math?
@Brookside GM, can you check my assumptions?
Also, this is going to take a bit of prep time, so if there is a lock not all may be able to be done. Assuming time is no object and Hal will be teleporting home straight into a long hot bath... or at least not great in the combat that follows us teleporting him somewhere.
This does not include whatever twisted idea Turion is going to pull out.
1. Memorise Aram Zay's focus (2nd level spell, use blank 5th slot) and Bit of Luck (4th level spell). Should be 15 minutes.
2. Cast Tears to wine for +5 enhancment on int and wisdom
3. Do book of puzzles. Base time is an hour, DC 10, but every +5 grants 10 minutes off. He is rolling at +15, so should get 10 mins off min, and probably 30. Gives a reroll.
4. Cast full's pouch to pull out shaman's paint (CL11)
5. Wear shaman's paint. Clock is then ticking as it is 1 wis damage per minute, and this is not exactly his best stat. Gives +2 alchemical bonus to CL
6. Cast Aram Zey's Focus, which gives the trapfind of a level 5 rogue, which is +2 Untyped to DD. Caster level is irrelevant, but will be 14.
7. Cast Bit of Luck with focussed spell for +4 CL (14) Paint adds +2 CL (17). On alchemist list for +1 CL. This lets him cast above CL 16, and can burn the whole effect for +3d8 Luck.
8. Use SS to burn Glitterdust and Suggestion (3rd, but no 2nd left) and cast Bestow Insight on self. Base is Cl 12. +2 insight + 1 per 4 CL +5 insight, and a roll twice, take the best.
9. Make the roll. Roll twice for bestow insight and book of puzzles, so roll 3 times take best? Aram Zey's allows a second roll if fail the first, but just to avoid setting it off.
The roll
RANKS
10 Disable Device
COMPETENCE
+5 trapspringer's gloves
INSIGHT
+5 bestow insight
AID (I think this stacks)
+4 Kazador
+4 Mel
Attribute
+3 Dexterity (might be able to get this higher?)
UNTYPED (stacks)
+3 Class Skill
+2 Aram Zay's Focus.
TRAIT
+1 Trap Finder
LUCK (does not stack?)
+1+1 Luckstone + fate's favoured for.
+3d8 +1 Bit of Luck
+1 +1 Prayer
total = 1d20+ 10+5+5+4+4+3+3+2+1+3d8
= 1d20+37+3d8
That seems sweet. Admittedly, I am not sure if multiple "roll twice" or "reroll" effects can target the same roll.
As said, otherwise the re-roll can also be gained via the Fates Shears(would save us the prep time on the puzzles).
That said, my SO was ill this week so I had work, kids and household mostly to myself, which kept me immensely busy.
I will write up an assist later today(in a couple hours), but I'm afraid I was not able to come up with any additional shenanigans beyond what you already listed.
(one thing on the dexterity, you could alter self into a small humanoid for that size bonus?)
Hal does have a +2 enhancement from his apron, so my own +2 belt won't help - not sure we got anything better and I don't have cat's grace.
You are correct that the luck bonuses do not stack -- you would take the largest, which is going to be the Bit of Luck spell in this case. I am somewhat staggered, but the math checks out as far as I can tell.
Though I think you may be getting a +2 aid another bonus from Túrion as well, which would push us into the land of beating that DC 42 check even if you rolled a natural one on every die involved, including rerolls. Which is, needless to say, extremely unlikely. I feel like if every die roll comes up one on this, the universe is telling us that we need to fight Cust personally and quit messing around with the underpinnings of reality or we'll regret it.
We sure are burning a whole lot of resources to make it happen, though, so I hope the result is worth it.
@Turion: I had forgotten about the shears, thanks.
@Mel: Good point. where are we teleporting them to? An ambush point just outside where we can gang up on them? That gets us maybe one ambush round before they just run away? I believe it will need to be within the area, though we could possibly use the spell on a boundary.
@Brookside GM: how long do we have this? I know we do not want to hold up the actual raid. I'm assuming he can start on the book of puzzles then give up after X minutes.
@Location: Why not simply into his own prepared trap cell? I doubt its a place you can easily leave from the inside. He MAY get people to release him, but he'll still be trapped inside the mansion with no way to evade the raid.
Plus just disabling the "bypass" may be less complicated than actually swapping the destination, which I do assume has to be within the actual warded area.
@Book of Puzzles: Before you consider doing that maybe we should first verify if it's even valid to use both that AND the Shears. Or does it do anything beyond granting a re-roll?
Nope. Just the reroll.
I guess... but if I built a prison cell that t-ported people into it, and I was relying on the competence of the wizard to cast it not to accidentally t-port me into it, I'd have a way out. Better than him getting away though, if we can get to him in time.
One problem with teleporting him to his own trap location is that we don't know where that is, which makes retrieving him difficult.
Another problem with teleporting him to his own trap location is that it might be some kind of fiendish death trap. I'm pretty sure Turick and the king will want him alive to ask him some pointed questions about his involvement in the Lakefire Rebellion. Also, he might grab his kids on the way out if he has any, and I'd rather not be responsible for dumping them into a deathtrap with their dad.
I mean, you can do some nasty things with teleport trap destinations. The general conjuration rules say that "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it." But nothing says that the arrival point can't be a giant pressure plate springing a trap. It could:
- Cause the floor to fall away, dropping them into a pit, which might be full of other unpleasantness.
- Release or awaken hostile monsters to assault them.
- Turn on an antimagic field.
- Fill the room with water, poisonous gas, acid, fire, lava, or similar.
- Remove all air from the room.
- Cause giant axes to swing through the area, dicing the occupants.
- Shishkabob them on spears that plunge out of the walls.
- Move the walls together to crush them.
Or any combination of the above. An antimagic field and a welcoming committee of ghasts would be especially nasty. The AMF shuts down magical escape methods and takes away magical gear, leaving nothing but mundane methods to get out. The ghasts' stench and paralysis abilities aren't affected by the AMF (weirdly), for a nice sickened debuff followed by potential paralysis. Then we add water filling the room quickly, which makes mundane combat considerably more difficult. The ghasts' claw attacks would be inconvenienced (-2 attack, half damage) but then the real threat from them is paralysis followed by drowning.
Then you add a reset to drain the room after about ten minutes or so, to reset it for your next guests. It might be worth building in some way to retrieve the bodies and gear of the unwelcome visitors, but you could also just leave them. Who knows, maybe they'll rise as zombies or something and join the welcoming committee.
But I digress! I think we should have the teleport trap bring him to us and a welcoming committee of Turick's men.
Well, in that case you overvote me.
I am reasonably certain that he, as probably any other noble utilizing that safety mechanism, will want to be able to interrogate whoever was attempting to pay them a visit.
That is, there may be something inconveniencing, but nothing lethal.
I concur with an AMF, but I'd assume e.g. a hole in the ground with a barred ceiling locked and covered outside the reach of the hole.
You can talk with them, then conveniently murder them, or let them starve.
Aside from possibly damaging the gear, or accidentally killing someone that was not supposed to be killed(or even risking being killed yourself if you have to sneeze while saying the password), I believe they'd want to learn the intentions of whoever attempted to pay them a visit.
If someone is sending teleporting assassins after me, I know I'd want to try and find out who sent them before non-teleporting assassins show up.
But that's my reasoning...I'd be certain that he and any family with him would be "fine" if inconvenienced. And that the cell/dungeon room is somewhere in the lower parts of the building to make outside access as difficult as possible.(for any would-be rescuers).
That would mean that he is restrained within his own dungeon while the kings man swarm the grounds and cut off all escapes.
But thats that.
If you DO insist on relocating him near us, then by all means we will have to join in, because in my opinion it's not an option to have him redirected right to the outside border of the trap we tempered with - he may have more than one shot, and giving him a window of opportunity to make a move action, then get away with a second casting on the standard, because he is outside the traps area of effect is not something I want to see.
(Plus we know nothing of his preparations. He may try and port out with family, or he may port out with personal elite guards, he may port with employees/butlers/book-keepers that know of secrets and should not fall into the hands of the king, and may be dressed up as one of them, or invisible.
We may not immediately know who is our target - if he alone ports out invisibly, not even when he arrives. So we'll definitely want an enclosed space and one far enough from the effects border that he can't make a run for it and try again.(I suspect since we can't know WHEN he comes, it will be regular Init, even if we are "more" prepared than him.
And that all is assuming he even attempts to flee with magic :D
Alright - holding on the 'how close do we have to be' and 'how long do we have' questions.
Also I see DC 42 as the base DC. Rolling better might get a better - or at least faster - result.
Also, there's the "solid surface" clause that I am not sure allows pressure plates which are, by definition, moving(even if solid otherwise). But that's hair-splitting as there are many trap-triggers that would work independently from giving them a safe space to arrive.
No, what I find more interesting is what would happen if a high-level mage decides to OVERLOAD the trap.
Say, gathering as many people as he can affect, and Teleport them in, making the Will Save himself to remain unaffected.(It's per creature, so the spell would not fail for the others).
Fetch the next bunch of soldiers, repeat until he's out of spell slots.
Or get a couple mages and have them do it synchronized.
Whatever area is designated as arrival zone would eventually get crowded. Then standard teleportation behaviour should come into play, and "shift" them into the closest available open space - which likely would be outside the holding cell.
With Human Wave Tactics, you could probably overwhelm the security feature- just in case we ever want a second point of entry and have a kingdoms resources at our disposal -
Hal, you don't have 10 minutes of uninterrupted time for the book of puzzles. The rest of the preparations are aok. Go for it.
Rolled pretty good, so figured you might want to keep the shears Turion,, feel free to use them if not.
The tentacles will only last 12 rounds, but should give time for something a bit more solid to be set up. Everyone would have been told about them.
I made up the wards being linked to the garden wall, but it makes sense to me. Hal could be wrong.
I think he was doing this as the Don? But I don't see the disguise holding up that well in the circumstances.
He must be at least 6 rounds in to the quicksilver madness. Would be happy if it takes longer.
The spell to transfer the runes is just something I made up. Not sure if there even is a spell like that, and it definitely shouldn't be used for this. Did sort of feel like "hacking magic" though so I went with it.
...No, what I find more interesting ...
Following that train of thought: Teleport some people with mechanical devices, like linked metal rods that are folded into a portable mode but can be unfolded to "block" a large area. Sort of like bringing some razorwire and just filling the whole block, only mechanically faster and less dangerous. That way the second port would already be shifted outside of the designated area.
Teleport Assault Tactics are interesting. Makes me remember an Antipaladin I once had with Dimensional Assault Line. Felt like a WH40k Chaos Terminator.
Also, here's hoping, that roll was fine, I think.
Unless the Caster Level check was required for something?
Casting black tentacles - closest thing to making a holding pen I could do. Something like dc 26 per to see them due to stylized spontaneity. Not sure it is actually going to do anything, but should buy time.
Sorry I've been so SLOW! Wow. There has been a lot of stuff going on that we are coming out of. For example, the baby has slept through the night 3x in a row now. Am I in a new era of being able to do things?
It wasn't totally clear to me what exactly you wanted to do to the teleport trap but I'm going to take temporarily scrambling the password so that Cust can't port out and gets teleport trapped as the plan.
I assure you that won't prove a punitive interpretation.
Oh yeah, I think we're going to stop him. Probably non-lethally, on the grounds that Turick and the King will probably want a word with him.
GM, can I declare Mel already had her bow out on the grounds that there's combat happening in the immediate area?
Congratulations :) 3x in a row seems like a noteworthy pattern :)
As for gameplay: Do we have any idea HOW he slipped through? I'd imagine if he was invisible to begin with, he'd not start being visible just before making it off the grounds, that would be might convenient timing on our part...
What I mean is, can we deduce if there was a secret exit or something?
Did Turicks men let him pass?
Are we sure he came from inside the mansion? Considering we seemingly can't react until such time as he rushes down an ally and around the corner, and the grounds were walled, if memory serves.
That said, yeah, stop him. I do believe I'll go with a default of "Haste" to start with, to make catching up a bit easier.
If someone wants to rush into action, you may assume thats my action, but I'd hold off on the actual gameplay post until I know a bit more about our situation - wouldn't want to have all of us go after some decoy while the real one waits for a chance...
I think someone should do something, but as there is a chance it is not him, I think Hal should keep the hack up. I'd feel pretty stupid if we went through this and caught his footman!
Kazador can feel free to DD along and be covered by the Feather Fall, then attempt to divebomb him in a few rounds.(We can do a lower re-entry if desired).
Or he can stay with Hal and keep the exit area safe. As you wish.
Just didn't want to "auto-include" you on the DD and lock you into being slowly falling towards a potential target. (But even with Haste, with his headstart, it would take quite long to catch up to melee I'm afraid - so with Hal staying and Mel giving chase with her own boots, that also didn't seem a great option.).
Mel: Yes it's perfectly reasonable to already have your bow out.
Turion: I'll add some detail in gameplay about what you do and don't know about how he got out.
It's up to the GM, but I'm inclined to think Kazador could just make an attack on Cust after the DDoor+Feather Fall combo. Túrion could easily time the Feather Fall so it slows you just before hitting the ground, effectively leaving you with your full turn.
Pinpoint precision probably isn't possible given that Túrion didn't have line of sight on Cust when he cast Dimension Door. Which is to say, it's pretty unlikely you'd land within five feet of him for a full attack.
But within range to walk up with a move action and smack him once strikes me as entirely plausible.
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Aye, or a downward charge :D
I did place us higher up because there may be some GM variation on allowing exact timing. Some even say that you are not entiteld to the Feather Fall after a DD.
(in which case no worry because there is a maximum fall rate that if I remember correctly was about 500 feet per round, so one could simply DD 500 feet higher and fall until next turn, THEN feather fall with the swift and still do whatever else.
That said, yeah, if Kazador is along, going a bit lower may be reasonable as I do lack options for horizontal movement(that said, even if falling, some "gliding" or horizontal swimming could be reasonable - not talking like a wingsuit here, but slight adjustments in direction should be valid ) - I'd still like a round of overwatch though.
Also, Kaz, just for that expression of trust, I'll look into getting a scroll of Telekinetic Charge to copy into my spell book if we manage to get some spending money out of this...
Sorry was at an event all weekend then catching up.
I'll allow a move and attack, which can be a charge if he wants, from Kazador. However, I don't see how Turion and still be floating in the air while Kazador has floated down to the ground. The dimension door has taken them to the same altitude and the feather fall affects both of them at the same time.
Turion: How do you mean to have you still floating in overwatch while Kazador has floated down to the ground? Unless I'm missing something, you have to pick a configuration in which both of you end up in approximately the same altitude.
Sorry, I was not being clear - I was under the expectation that after the DD our turn ends.
I picked 300 feet under the assumption that I can sling long-ranged magic from up there with a good overview of the situation, starting the next round.
Alas, I think there are few options for moving under your own power during feather fall(hence why I said I think some horizontal gliding should be reasonable - after all the fall rate is fixed weather I try to spread for maximum air resistance or pull limbs close into a candle-like fall) - so if Kazador is tagging along, I would not opt for the full 300 feet - otherwise he'd be stuck up there with me for 5 rounds until he lands safely, probably farther from the suspect(if it's still active) than if he had just tried to run.
So I said I'd opt for a lower re-entry, say 120 feet, then feather fall to go down 60 feet.
That way I should be able to still "cast" from a vantage point before descending, next round, and Kazador would make it back down as well.
Not a big surprise, but I was hoping to channel my Bloodline Power through Magic Missiles to shut the suspect down for a round. Ideally to let Mel catch up, more ideally when he passes close enough beneath us for Kazador to adjust his exact descent to make a "downward charge" with his feather-fall-powered down-movement.
I understand that would take a bit of rule 0 to make it work, but nothing should really be a stretch in terms of timing, do-ability or reasonability.
But yeah, we are going together, I was just trying to say I'm going lower with him but not SO low that I'm missing out on getting some chance to observe from a vantage point, in case there's anything else we should know about going on nearby, and for a rough impression of the nearby street layout which the suspect no doubt knows better than us.
Sorry I was unclear.
Ok so you and Kazador are up in the air with some small ability to influence your horizontal momentum. But realistically, we're talking about changing about 5 ft of your horizontal position per every 60 ft that you fall. Will update the round accordingly.
I was kind of thinking of indoor skydiving as a reference.
There's some pretty good "control" possible, albeit of course without the wind there's less "force" you can use to redirect to trigger Mister Newton.
But the six seconds of a round afford quite some time to swim in some direction ^_^
Alas, it seems I made the worst possible choice, with it being too late to do something this round, and him already being around the next corner in the next.
So the question is: How labyrinthine is the area? Would it be reasonable to try and chase him to some more open location?
And since directly attacking him is not a thing...even with Haste Kazador would be limited to 40 feet per move action, and around a corner theres no charging.
Regarding any attempt to impede him with area denial magic would also slow us down.
So my positioning was really bad, it would seem. Sorry for messing up, Kaz.
At this point, I think retrieving my rod, doing a swift Haste, then moving after the suspect would be best - but I'm open to input since my previous judgement call was lacking.
What - Hal was right?!? I was going to write a post as he realises he's alone, but it kept coming across a bit too comic.
I'm inclined to give the secretary to Turick's men.
I'm also not entirely sure what to do next. Thoughts?
I mean... it may not be the secretary, it could be a mundane disguise. Also, maybe head back to Hal?
Before you give him over to Turicks men, maybe ask where he was headed? I'd assume if someone had the foresight to give him a scroll of vanish for the unlikely event he needed to make his way past someone, they also had the vision to decide on a meeting spot.
Just in case the Baron made it out with some longer-lasting invisibility(and in a different direction than the one we are "guarding"), I think it would make sense for someone that seems to be his secretary to make it to that meeting spot, in time.
As in, if despite our tampering and all the guards, he manages to flee, the secretary that was instructed to flee as well may be our best lead on where to find our mark.
If your teleport trap manipulations were successful, you'll want to figure out where the Baron got shunted.
Well, how about I just ask him some questions as we walk back to the house? A little more information might make things clearer.
Well, lets see if that makes him cooperative for the time being.
Great rolls, Turion, but confusing! For one, your intimidate mod is listed as +2 on your character sheet and you have no active effects listed in your status line. So what's the math there?
Once more, getting mileage out of Orator...
Orator
You’re able to construct statements and commands that are much more convincing than their content would otherwise suggest.
Prerequisite(s): Skill Focus (Linguistics).
Benefit: You can use a Linguistics check in place of a Bluff check to tell a falsehood or conceal information, in place of a Diplomacy check to change the attitude of a creature, or in place of an Intimidate check to force a creature to cooperate. You must deliver your attempt in a language the target understands.
I vastly underestimated the Feats utility - for practical purposes, it's versatile performance on steroids, covering 3 skills AND changing the primary stat to INT...a great deal for a fully invested INT-based caster(plus the prerequisite alse further empowers it directly).
And I only picked it to support our more socially adept characters during this intrigue/spy arc, never expecting to see it used THAT often.
Long story short: My Linguistics is at +22, which powers both of the rolls.
Ah yes, very good. I remember orator now. Next time, please label the rolls as linguistics rolls and specify that it's linguistics for XYZ so I don't lose track (and since that's the actual mechanics).
I think I usually did - was just in a hurry to post.
That ok?
Just add a tag for whether it's linguistics for bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate and then it's good, yes.
So in my latest post Mel is suggesting here that the only reason we were able to trap Cust in his own Teleport Trap is because there was something wrong with the Baron's wards. That's not actually accurate -- they were set properly, it's just that Hal is amazingly skilled.
The question is, does Mel actually know she's giving incorrect information? Mel's not totally unfamiliar with the arcane, but it's not her focus by any means. It's a high-level spell and what Hal did to it was not at all a standard way of dealing with it. She might have misunderstood, and genuinely thinks there was some kind of flaw in the spell.
So here's a Knowledge (Arcana) check.
Based on that 20 total, I'm inclined to think that she's misunderstood the details of what we did. And therefore she's not lying to Turick and doesn't have to make a bluff check, which is good because Mel's bluff is pretty poor.
I've been thinking about it from Turick's perspective. These unknown people who are definitely hiding secrets and certainly have agendas of their own show up and begin in essence dismantling the council. And now they've shown a capacity to disable teleportation wards? Those are a major part of the nobility's defenses against getting ganked by teleporting assassins! Not to mention that teleportation wards are very high level and expensive magic which are not easy to produce in the first place.
So if I were Turick, I would be mentally upgrading my assessment of the party from "Dangerous" to "Serious Threat" about now. I might also be wondering if they're actually working with Count Aral. They say they are. But Aral's not here. What if they're lying? What if they're actually agents of Helm, or the Concordat, or members of some new domestic conspiracy? I would want to contact Count Aral and check their bona fides (if I haven't already). And if that checks out, I'd still be wary of them.
I'm hoping that Mel's misunderstanding will blunt the edge of that just a touch.
@Brookside GM: am I okay for Hal to use message to call in his draconic ally? It can then accompany the party. Not much power, but can witty banter?
You're reasoning is good, Mel. I'm fine with your interpretation of that check.
Hal, that's also fine.