Mummy's Mask

Game Master Whack-a-Rogue

Don’t think it has mattered yet, but just incase it eventually does:

“Fey-Sighted: To some elves with fey heritage, magic is a visible presence they have known all their lives. These elves have detect magic as a constant spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to their character level. This racial trait replaces elven magic.”

Good to know. :-) In that case, you do detect a few magical auras in the hoard - likely potions, scrolls, and a minor magic item or two.

On another note, this encounter would have been a lot more difficult if there wasn't a dragon in the party. ;-)

Up to Aerith when we want to leave. Mahmoud will wait for her to try to reassemble the compass, but he can head back and keep watch if she wants to hang out with the dragon longer. :)

I think we hit a good scene end with the last post :)

Am I correct in remembering that the compasses at points G and M on the map are busted? In that case, it might make sense to head for O to see if we can restore that one and thus better triangulate the results. Or, we could head for N or P to see if they are the source? What does Aerith think? Mahmoud thinks we should just head in the direction the compass points until we find a bunch of undead, but Aerith may have more refined tactics. :)

For some reason my eSIM isn’t letting me access drive, so i can’t see the map. And WiFi? Here in China the great firewall apparently doesn’t want me to see Wati. I’ll try again later. But in the meantime Mahmoud can dictate the next stop.

Yes, that's correct: the two previous elegiac compasses are broken. Since it sounds like you're considering going to N, O, or P, which one do you want to see first?

I propose we head for O. Let's see if restoring another compass is an option. :)

Onward to O!

Sorry, Aerith! I looked to see if I could find a combat feat that would get you out of paralysis that I could flex into, but the only thing I found I can't take until level 9. There is a War talent that might help prevent this in the future (it allows a reroll of a failed saving throw as an immediate action), and I'll see if I can figure out how to include it in my build.

Not a problem! Well, it is. But it’s not your fault.

I’m thinking, that so long as Aerith survives this, some rerolls are needed. The best way I can see getting one, as quickly as possible, is this:

Lvl 6: Time Sphere
- Altered Time (Haste and Slow)
- Rapid Response (time) You grant the target a competence bonus to initiative checks equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum 1) and the ability to act in the surprise round even if they fail their Perception check to notice the presence of foes. You must concentrate to maintain this effect, but may spend a spell point to allow it to remain for 10 minutes per caster level without concentration.
- Second Chance: As an immediate action, you may spend a spell point to allow any creature currently benefiting from one of your alter time effects to reroll a saving throw they just failed. They must accept the new result even if it is worse than the original roll.

I’ve got plenty of spell points, and it’s better to use them than to die. Rapid Response will last for an hour for both of us, and second chance will give both of us rerolls. This encounter shows that this could save our lives. Of course, the default will be for us to use the rerolls whenever needed.

It’s kind of funny…there are so many sphere talents to take! I had originally planned to be a specialist. Just 2 spheres. Then Aerith turned into a natural attack build with as much utility as can be shoved into the build.

That sounds like a great plan! I can take War: Replenish at level 6 too. Two rerolls are even better than one! ;)

Good find! If we both end up failing our saves then both of us being able to force a reroll as an immediate action will be clutch.

*DING*
By the time you reach the bottom of the stairs, you'll be Level Six. :-)

Since gestalt adds a great deal of complexity to a character, please list all level-up changes here for easy tracking. Don't forget that your resistance bonus to saving throws increases. :-)

Level 6!

HP: 6 (class) + 1 (Con) +1 (FCB) = +8
Saves: None
BaB: +1
Skills: +4 (class) + 6 (Int) +1 (cunning) = +11
Background Feat: Lvl 6: Robustness: Whenever you are the target of a spell, sphere ability, or supernatural ability that allows you to regain hit points that does not grant fast healing, you heal additional hit points equal to your Hit Dice. The increase in healing can not be greater than the original amount of healing granted. When you are granted fast healing, the fast healing heals 1 additional hit point per round

Bonus Sorcerer Feat: Improved Natural Attack Claws

DR 3/magic

Bestial Trait: Flight (Ex) (requires 6th level): You gain a 30 ft flight speed with maneuverability (clumsy).

Combat Talent: Chink In The Armor (slam) [Apoc] Source: Spheres Apocrypha: Armor Talents
You may make a melee attack against the target that deals damage as normal, except that it ignores any armor and shield bonuses to armor class the target may have.

Magic Talent: Time Sphere
- Altered Time (Haste and Slow)
- Rapid Response (time) You grant the target a competence bonus to initiative checks equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum 1) and the ability to act in the surprise round even if they fail their Perception check to notice the presence of foes. You must concentrate to maintain this effect, but may spend a spell point to allow it to remain for 10 minutes per caster level without concentration.
- Second Chance: As an immediate action, you may spend a spell point to allow any creature currently benefiting from one of your alter time effects to reroll a saving throw they just failed. They must accept the new result even if it is worse than the original roll.

Shifter FCB: Add +1/3 to the shifter’s natural armor bonus while using a form from the Alteration sphere other than Blank Transformation. (+1 natural armor)

Unarmored Training (+1 Armor)

So…that should about do it. I’ll double check and update asap.

(Whoops, posted this in the wrong place!)

WOOT-WOOT! Happy Shuffling Pharasma Spiral Dance!

Johnsonfinder Cleric (Warpriest) 6 // Johnsonfinder Fighter (Weapon Master) 6
BAB +1 (+6)
CL +0.75 (+4)
saves +0.5/+0.33/+0.5 (+5/+2/+5)
+1d10 HD (64 hp)
+5 skill points (Disable Device +1, Perform [dance] +1, Stealth +2, Use Magic Device +1)
Background Feat: Nimble Moves
Unarmored Training: +0.33 armor bonus (+5)
ABP: resistance +2

Cleric features:
blended training talent (buy off War: Commando drawback [War: Marauding Momentum], gain War: Replenish from War: Alternate Rally drawback and War: Eternal Vigilance from War: Solo Combatant drawback)
divine boon (Undead Slayer)

Fighter features:
combat talent (Barrage: Mobile Focus)
conditioning +3 (Alert x2)
sever magic

Unfortunately, it looks like I won't be able to use Replenish on Aerith until next level, when I can buy the magic talent that lets Mahmoud Rally his allies without having an active totem (or rather, buy off the Solo Combatant drawback that prevents him from using Eternal Vigilance on his allies).

Aerith: You have both the +1hp FCB and the Shifter FCB listed. Which one are you selecting? You also should be gaining +1 to all saving throws from my ABP.

Ah, my mistake. I thought gestalt got both. I’ll go with the AC. While the lower HP will hurt, the AC is too good to pass up. And I’ll check to the saves to make sure the resistance bonus is there.

Completely forgot! But casting on both of us

Rapid Response (time) You grant the target a competence bonus to initiative checks equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum 1) and the ability to act in the surprise round even if they fail their Perception check to notice the presence of foes. You must concentrate to maintain this effect, but may spend a spell point to allow it to remain for 10 minutes per caster level without concentration

So 1 hour duration for us both with spell points. Both get +3 initiative. Currently have 20 spell points.

Was very tempted to take it this level. Mahmoud, your thoughts? Can buff us both:

Lvl 7: Second Skin, Limited Protection Altered Aegis Sphere - Armored Aegis (+2 Shield AC), Deathless + Undying Aegis (When you create a Deathless aegis, you may spend an additional spell point to create an Undying aegis instead. In addition to the effects of the Deathless aegis, the subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy. This aegis does not remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, but it does remove the penalties from negative levels for the duration of its effect. This aegis does not protect against other sorts of attacks, even if those attacks might be lethal.)

Mahmoud already has a shield bonus from his shield, and he has the Shield sphere so he kind of needs to keep it. But that would probably be nice for Aerith to get a little extra AC?

As far as Deathless and Undying goes, that seems like a very smart thing for us to have, since it seems clear undead are a big focus of this campaign. Negative levels suuuuck, and generally they don't give saving throws so we just get them unless we have protection against them. But maybe we'd be better off just getting a wand (er, a spell engine?) rather than investing another one of your limited magic talents? I dunno. It does seems like a protection that we'll really want to have.

Is there a protection sphere talent that would be better for Mahmoud? I could just invest 8k gold in a ring of force shield. Pretty sure she can wear it in dragon form.

Can then have a different aegis talent. Maybe this? Inner Peace (aegis)

You may create an aegis that grants the target a +4 morale bonus to saving throws against all fear, emotional and mind-affecting abilities, both magical or mundane. When the target is affected by a magical ability this bonus applies to, they are always granted a save to completely negate the effect, even if one is not normally allowed. The improved composure of the subject also grants them a +4 morale bonus to Bluff checks to conceal emotions or relay secret messages, and to Diplomacy checks to influence attitudes to make creatures calm.

Or maybe: Subtle (aegis)

Prerequisites: Protection sphere, caster level 5th.

A creature with this aegis is surrounded by a field of magical energy that interferes with other forms of magic. Rather than producing an obvious spell resistance effect, however, the creature with the aegis becomes hidden from sphere abilities and supernatural abilities.

The effect is such that these abilities can not target the character properly without assistance from a creature. If a supernatural or sphere ability discerns between allies and enemies (as many totems of the War sphere do), or acts in a way that its effects only affect certain creatures (such as creatures of a creature type or a specific alignment), the creature with the aegis is unaffected or considered to be an ally. Similarly, magic traps and contingency effects (like glyphs) are not triggered by the creature’s presence, and any effect relying on a magical trigger is also not triggered, as if the creature were invisible to the trap or effect. Traps may still be sprung by physical triggers, however.

Abilities that rely on the caster choosing targets are not affected by this aegis, even if that ability only works on certain targets (such as a paladin’s smite evil ability), and this does not give the bearer any special concealment from creatures using magical senses. Area effect abilities are also still effective against the creature, provided the effect affects every creature, or affects every creature save for those specifically made invulnerable by the caster.

With lasting hour/lvl I could see either one being great for us to have.

I know it’s funny to think of this now, but it makes leveling up much faster to have things planned out

Is there a protection sphere talent that would be better for Mahmoud? I could just invest 8k gold in a ring of force shield. Pretty sure she can wear it in dragon form.

Just speaking for Mahmoud, I think Subtle is better than Inner Peace, because Mahmoud already has a scaling morale bonus to his will saves vs fear. :)

Based on my reading of your talents, you can make a DEX-based Perform check to activate your Gladiator Sphere abilities, but not for all Influence checks. Unless you have more than the Dancer Training talent + Entertainer drawback that I'm overlooking. Your build is complicated. :-)

Yeah, sorry it's so complicated. Mahmoud also has the Shadowboxing talent that says he can use Perform (dance) for all Acrobatics and Intimidate checks, which I think in the past you've said means he can roll it for intimidating uses of Influence, but not all uses of Influence.

His Vicious Performer feat says that when he begins a performance, he can "attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize a creature that is within the ability’s area or would be affected by the ability". I'm not sure how that should interact with a demoralize attempt that uses PSB, but that's why I was wondering if DEX wouldn't be more appropriate than CHA for that check, since he doesn't use CHA on the Perform check either. :)

Ah, I knew there was something I overlooked! Yes, Shadowboxing would let you use Perform (dance) for Influence when you're generally being threatening.

For this combat, Vicious Performer doesn't really matter, as it currently only has a 15ft range and you started your performance after you used Turn Undead, so all of the zombies had already fled. ;-) I think overall, though, using DEX for that check should be fine.
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Since this came up, maybe I can get your and Grumbaki's thoughts on a somewhat related matter I've been mulling over for a few months. Because Spheres has a lot of interactions with Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate/demoralize/feint, it's led to a lot of added complexity and rewriting abilities to account for PSB and the Influence skill - things like a character taking both the Gladiator and Warleader Spheres, for instance, or the current discussion about how all of Mahmoud's Perform (dance) synergies intertwine.

I've noticed a similar thing with PSB: I'd been concerned about how easy it was to get massive demoralize/feint bonuses in vanilla PF because they're tied to the Intimidate/Bluff skills - in addition to low-skill-rank classes like the Fighter not having easy ways to reliably use those maneuvers. Spheres solves the latter issue by giving free skill ranks, and as I've seen with Mahmoud (demoralize) and Robert Henry (feint), it's still easy to get high bonuses in my system.

My question to the two of you, therefore, is "do you think I've been trying to solve a problem that wasn't actually an issue?" Are Influence and PSB actually better than vanilla PF? My in-person group likes it, but they're flavor players with low system mastery, and that isn't the norm on these boards. ;-)

I think it's a clever system, PSB and PSD, but it has some shortcomings in that there's a lot of things that aren't compatible with it. I remember you saying that one problem you had with Bluff being used to feint was that it was too easy to get absurdly high totals, and that might be true. I have a feinter in another game and she can usually wipe the floor with anyone she can get a feint on. But, when you feint, you're usually limited to one attack, at least in vanilla Pathfinder. Spheres changes that, and I trust your analysis that it can be abusive.

I'm not sure that there's a similar problem with demoralizing, though. I'd love it if Mahmoud could use Influence to demoralize like regular Pathfinder, but I admit that's partly because he's much better at it than PSB. I never intended for him to invest that heavily in Gladiator, just a little bit for him to take advantage of his domain power and his Vicious Performer feat. If you do consider reverting to PF style, it would make sense to go back to Diplomacy and Intimidation being separate skills.

I love influence, it’s one of my favorite changes from your house rules, as I dislike having multiple skills for talking. However, there is always a problem in pathfinder that optimized specialists can reach modifiers that can’t be beat, and it means that the free skills from spheres get wonky.

A possible solution is to have extra skills? Influence is for talking. Feinting is a skill for tricking people in combat. Demoralize is likewise a skill for combat. Fast talking to bluff someone like a conman is very different from feinting with a blade. Threatening to break someone’s knees if they don’t pay up is very different from scaring someone in the middle of a fight…this makes more investment from skill points, and separates talking from combat. It also makes the free sphere skills more useful.

Of course this doesn’t address the numbers being pumped up as far as they are. Unless some of the bonuses apply to influence and others to feint/demoralize…

Balancing feint is tricky, as it's easy to get high numbers. Boosting skill checks of any sort to ridiculous levels is simple, and as eriktd noted, there aren't really any ways to defend against it short of making enemies immune to precision damage. It's a similar issue with influencing an NPC's attitude in that the DC doesn't scale all that well. I started noticing this in my solo S&S game with Robert Henry, actually. As it turns out, a TWF Rogue who invests heavily in the Fencing Sphere can annihilate anything without breaking a sweat!

Demoralize is less problematic but still has issues in that bonuses rapidly outpace an enemy's ability to defend against. Add in the Gladiator Sphere, and it's pretty easy to start a combat encounter by making multiple enemies flee - sometimes even if they're normally immune to fear.

I'd hoped that incorporating psychological maneuvers would help balance this as per Grumbaki's suggestion. Feint and demoralize become combat skills, and influencing NPCs is exclusive to Influence and Deception. That doesn't address the numbers being pumped up, though, and adds the unintended side-effect of threatening NPCs being caught in a weird spot.

What I'd originally intended was for the affected skill-granting Spheres to give a scaling bonus to the related use. This works out great for Athletics, where the Sphere's various packages can boost climb, run, jump, and swim - and then give free ranks in Fly as in the original version. For Fencing and Gladiator (and Warleader and Leadership to an extent - although I usually ban the latter), this gets complicated because vanilla PF makes feint/demoralize alternate skill uses. As such, no matter what the scaling bonus/free skill rank applies to, something's being shortchanged.

One idea I have is to tweak the Spheres themselves. Thanks to eriktd's interest in the Performance Sphere, I've started rereading SoG and making notes about what I like and dislike. There are a lot of fun ideas (like Survivalism's [harvest] talents), so I'm currently making a list of adjustments so that I can eventually start allowing them in future games. Sometimes this has involved using drawbacks to change the base Sphere abilities to remove things like motivations. Maybe I can apply this to Fencing and Gladiator? There's a Fencing drawback that changes the free skill ranks to Sense Motive, for example, as you've become skilled at reading your opponent's body language. I'm definitely open to ideas. :-)

Aerith: It looks like your breath weapon is a 60ft-line and currently is a DC 19 Reflex save.

Indeed. And thank you for working with me with my travel/map issues.

Not a problem!
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Here's a potential change for the Spheres and abilities we've been discussing:

The talking skills stay as we currently have them (Deception for lies and Influence for everything else). Eliminate PSB and PSD (the latter is basically calculated the same as vanilla PF's feint/demoralize defense, so it's unnecessary). Feint is a Deception skill check; demoralize is an Influence skill check - link in vanilla PF.

Instead of free skill ranks, Fencing and Gladiator give a bonus equal to +1/2 BAB to feint and demoralize maneuvers respectively. This is the same way that the Athletics Sphere works with consolidated skills and uses the Warleader/Leadership skill redundancy formula as precedent.

This way, characters who don't put ranks in Deception/Influence can still use the maneuvers even if the other uses of those skills (like making disguises or eloquent speech) don't fit their character. From a defensive standpoint, both Spheres have a talent that helps (Read Foe and Uncowed, respectively). I'd be inclined to increase Uncowed's bonus vs demoralize to be equal to the character's level to make it in line with Fencing's Read Foe.

I think over all, this would reduce the current compatibility issues. It doesn't solve excessively high bonus problem, but as Grumbaki noted, that's sort of a thing for PF in general.

What are your thoughts?

That all sounds great to me. It will make Mahmoud's skills much tighter, but that's okay and it's a good trade-off for the change to how demoralize works.

I like solutions which match existing rules. Mirroring ones that already exist feels streamlined and adds an aura of fairness.

Btw, “Force Redirection Technique [Youxia HB]

Prerequisite: Equipment sphere.

You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier to AC, up to a maximum of 3 + half of your base attack bonus. Characters who gain Climb or Swim as a class skill may instead choose to have the cap increase by +1 for every 2 ranks in the listed class skill they possess. Your bonus to AC is still affected by anything that would limit or remove your Dexterity modifier to AC such as wearing armor or being flat-footed. You may disable or enable Force Redirection Technique as a free action at the start of your turn, once per turn.”

You can add maximum limits to what bonuses can offer. So if one kind of bonus stacks too high this is a way to force things to remain reasonable.

This is true. SoG has a section about capping skill bonuses, but I don't think that's necessary right now. Being able to use Sense Motive to defend against feinting like in vanilla PF means it's easier to defend against.

I've also reread THIS CLASSIC ARTICLE, and your skill modifiers are in line with the table. :-)

Unrelated: Did Force Redirection Technique always have a cap? That's one of the talents I'm not a fan of because it makes martial offense and defense reliant on a single stat, but that cap makes it on par with Unarmored Training. As Dexterity is so incredibly valuable currently - especially with free Weapon Finesse - I think I might reconsider my Force Redirection Technique ban. The only issue I'm currently seeing is it would let my Barbarians double-up on STR-to-AC due to a minor class feature.

Unrelated: Did Force Redirection Technique always have a cap? That's one of the talents I'm not a fan of because it makes martial offense and defense reliant on a single stat, but that cap makes it on par with Unarmored Training. As Dexterity is so incredibly valuable currently - especially with free Weapon Finesse - I think I might reconsider my Force Redirection Technique ban. The only issue I'm currently seeing is it would let my Barbarians double-up on STR-to-AC due to a minor class feature.

I don't remember ever noticing the cap before, but I doubt it was stealth errata. I don't see anything on the Drop Dead Studios Discord about a change. :)

I'm not sure if Aerith joined the dance last round (it's just a five-foot step, so presumably?), but at least the guy attacking Mahmoud has to make a DC 16 Reflex save when he enters his threatened area or become entangled.

If possible she will always join the dance. She doesn’t have his rhythm but it would be rude to not at least shuffle awkwardly.

Next level I’m considering taking a point in perform dance just from this experience.

Mahmoud: Do you want me to assume you're spending your AoO on the first enemy to enter your threatened area each round to activate the entanglement? Since "on enemy's turn" abilities are tricky during PbPs, I'm happy to follow whatever general procedure you'd like as long as it's listed in your end-of-post reminder section. :-)

Mahmoud: Do you want me to assume you're spending your AoO on the first enemy to enter your threatened area each round to activate the entanglement? Since "on enemy's turn" abilities are tricky during PbPs, I'm happy to follow whatever general procedure you'd like as long as it's listed in your end-of-post reminder section. :-)

Yes, please. Mahmoud's got Combat Reflexes, so he generally doesn't use all of his opportunities each round.

I also have to remember that I have Active Defense from the Shield sphere, which gives Mahmoud an additional +3 AC when he isn't flat-footed and uses an attack of opportunity. I'll add a spoiler to my end-of-post notes to that end.

Sounds good. Six AoOs per round is quite a lot, but between activating the entanglement and active defense, you can definitely go through them very quickly in the event of multiple enemies or multiple attacks. Is there a preferred way you'd like me to prioritize them in that sort of situation?

Example: the crystal dragon you traded with had five natural attacks. In a hypothetical combat with her and a cultist ally, that's eight potential AoOs used (one each to entangle both enemies and six uses of active defense).

Sounds good. Six AoOs per round is quite a lot, but between activating the entanglement and active defense, you can definitely go through them very quickly in the event of multiple enemies or multiple attacks. Is there a preferred way you'd like me to prioritize them in that sort of situation?

Well, Mahmoud isn't often in melee, but if he is, I guess he'll try to block attacks in the order he takes them. I'll try to remember to say something if an encounter seems to require a different strategy-- like if a bunch of mooks are surrounding him, he probably won't bother using his shield so that he might be able to entangle them all. (Entangle is generally better!)

And for Aerith she will block attacks from enemies who can realistically hurt her. So 10+ damage. Things like zombies, who after DR do 3ish damage, aren’t worth the spell points.

Sounds good. :-)

I'm not sure if you're waiting on me or if it's just the normal weekend slowdown, but the doors leading deeper into the complex are closed, and the pressure plate take up the entire floor space in front of them. The most viable options forward are disabling the trap, finding the bypass, or destroying the doors at range and flying/teleporting over the pressure plate. :-)

Ah sorry I thought that the last part was more or less my plan. Maybe it’s the doors that are the problem. Could Aerith use her Telekenisis attack to batter the doors down and then warp us over?

I can have Mahmoud try to disable the trap. I was waiting to see if Aerith's idea of warping ahead would work. :)

Quick note. Aerith has plenty of spell points. If you ever need a reroll, please take one. It only costs 2. Which could be a lot cheaper than the healing from a failed roll!

Ooo, thanks for the reminder. I will probably need it many more times before it sinks in that Aerith can do that. :)

Oof, I just remembered that these are undead, so Mahmoud can turn them. I should have done that instead! Oh well, maybe next round. :P

One of the great problems of gestalt: too many options. :)

Aerith, remember that to maintain participation in Mahmoud's dance, you have to either five-foot-step or spend a move action. I don't think you used either, so you could do whatever fits your strategy?

5ft always. Full attacking requires full action