Hey guys, I'll be leaving for an annual camping trip up in the mountains on Thursday. While the current plan is to return to civilzation on Sunday night, it's pretty likley I'll wind up staying an extra day.
Anyway, there's no cell reception or internet or anything at the mountain top cabin I'll beat, so I'll be offline for the duration of the trip.
Underwater Combat, for ease of reference
Thanks!
Am I right in understanding that 1/4 speed for a character with 30 speed is rounded down to 5? Ugh. That's sloooooow going.
Sorry, there is a big bothersome map on my work computer, that I forgot to send home (I'm off this week). There will be a combat, I just have to recreate the map. The shark doesn't take kindly to condescending dwarves ;)
An angry shark, you say? Hehehehe! Just liked I'd planned! Bwahaha!
Due to a discussion in one of my other games, I will begin tracking loot in this profile. To do so, I will need you all to make sure I'm aware of what you are picking up/taking, and when you sell/claim.
I'm not tracking what you buy on your own, only what is found, appraised, claimed, or sold.
Consolidated lists like that are quite helpful - thanks in advance, Aard!
Seconding the thanks!
Given my statement of tracking loot, from this point forward I will only be tracking what is claimed by the players as having been taken, and prices will only exist for what has been appraised. Also, I will still need specifics along the lines of "2 sets of leather and the short sword", vice "Everything but the heavy stuff".
I would like to make a point about how I see the pace of a game. When the scene requires a map or the enemies/NPC's acting, I accept that it is wholly on me, and admit I have dropped the ball on moving forward at times. When the scene is all RP or IC decision-making, that pace is set by the players.
Admittedly, I have been the most guilty of it for this game. I have become bad at only getting a post a week in. I will do my best to step up my rate, and you guys have been pretty good at pushing the story forward during the between encounter time spans.
Things are not looking good for our heroes! :-)
That is why I am backing off.
My old gaming group from college used to discuss the loftier aspects of the game from time to time and what made fights and combats tough and sometimes one sided. I'd always said that the side that took the most actions would handily win while one of my players said that he thought the game was won or lost based on movement and mobility.
I am beginning to see that player's argument quite clearly now!
I think this battle best shows the "swingy-ness" of d20 battles, especially against high CR vs. APL foes. We could play this same encounter out several times, and sometimes it'll be a TPK and sometimes the hag and her sharks will die in 3 rounds.
If spells had gotten through SR, or Felgar had hit his shark, etc. Some bad rolls and things get ugly.
In hindsight, we shouldn't have closed so quickly. Hags are nasty, even when not underwater. But what's done is done.
To be fair, I was thinking I could get there to stop her from casting more spells. But, yes, less than good.
If anyone can think of a way to restrict her from making her full attack, that would give us a better chance. I doubt Rutter could grapple her, but he could probably aid another for it.
No worries, Vysh...like I said, hindsight. Your idea was a good one.
As is yours, Rutter. I doubt I have the BAB to get a grapple on, but I can aid. But now we're losing 3 actions to her.
Ugh.
Sorry for my recent silence. I have a business trip coming up next week and have been trying to prepare. I promise I will post tomorrow. I may have more time for posting next week depending on how good the wifi is at the hotel (since I will have nothing but time at the hotel).
oh, and the other problem with your plan Vysh was that the cleric didn't buff everyone. What an idiot. :-(
My old gaming group from college used to discuss the loftier aspects of the game from time to time and what made fights and combats tough and sometimes one sided. I'd always said that the side that took the most actions would handily win while one of my players said that he thought the game was won or lost based on movement and mobility.
I am beginning to see that player's argument quite clearly now!
I wanted to jump in on this little part of the discussion. I think the one aspect that truly makes or breaks encounters...communication.
It's truly the greatest aspect of a group game. Coordination with one another. Too often people act individually, without considering the abilities, capabilities, and weaknesses of each other. Normally, constant back and forth while fighting has the ability to open ideas that others may not have considered.
Mechanically, though, I wholly think it lies in the court of movement, for the simple fact that positioning, even subtly, can make a world of difference. It changes the penalties of ranged attacks, reduces risks of using AOE's and allows for benefits gained like flank (and subsequently Rutter's sneak attack extra damage).
I think the reason we don't see more coordination, though, is that people try to role-play. Discussions about tactics are purely meta. For example, Rutter really shouldn't know about potions of hide from undead, because he doesn't have any ranks in spellcraft or arcana or religion. And then, to incorporate other characters' abilities or just their actions, we'd have to imagine they discussed what to do if a sea hag attacked the party ahead of time. Or that they're calling out tactics in the middle of the battle, "HEY EVERYONE, WHOEVER HAS THE HIGHEST AC OR HP, PROVOKE AN AOO! I'M GOING TO SNEAK AROUND HER, SO THAT I CAN DO 2D6 DAMAGE EVERY TIME I HIT HER! HEY! WHY'D SHE BACK INTO THE CORNER! ALRIGHT, WHICH ONE OF YOU TOLD HER I'M A ROGUE!"
Tactical communication doesn't require meta, and can fairly easily be done role-play and in character. Much the same way I try to describe monster knowledge to my players. I don't say "They have a high AC and DR/silver", I would instead say "They are often considered very hard to hit, and even when you do, only certain weapons appear to make much of an impact. Specifically silver."
Yes, communication for coordination can be very important, which presents special difficulties for PbP vs. ftf. At a table, when your buddy says "ooo, I'm going to go stab that dragon in the junk!", everyone at least knows about it right away. In PbP, it can take a day or two, in which time the DM might already have processed that action.
Tactical awareness is also dulled by the RL length of combats. Different game, different challenges. Good fun regardless! Even during a TPK.
As for role-playing in-fight tactics, it certainly is possible to put those things in role-playing form, but it can go wrong. I still fondly remember the hand-signal fiasco from early in the campaign. Neva was confused and frustrated by whatever Rutter and Felgar (or Copper maybe?) were attempting to signal. I think that was at All-the-World's-Meat or something?
Anyway, I've always seen D&D 3.x as a tactical miniatures game with role-playing elements, which means there is will be more tac-talk (role-played or not) along the lines of "a 5-ft to here would work, but if you can take the AoO, then that let's me move up with a touch spell, unless it has Combat Reflexes..."
It has alot to do with the addition of some new players too. Neva and Rutter already are well aware of what Felgar is going to do in a fight, as he is with them. We will get to know the others, too, in the event we do not die.
Yes, the biggest thing here was Vyshael underestimated the hag, figuring (ironically) that as a caster she'd be less formidable in melee (and expecting to be able to keep her busy long enough for others to join in).
If this wasn't underwater, I'm rather certain we'd not have messed this up by the numbers... But I took rash action to try to stop the spells and we've never quite fallen into a battle order since. (Also, a single elemental Metamagic rod would also have done wonders..)
Just as a side note, assuming it matters because I'm not Hag Chow -- I'll be gone from December 12-20 -- family traveling, not likely to have time to be online sort of situation.
I'll remind everyone again next week (closer to departure), but just wanted to give an early head's up.
Similar with me, 12th through 16th
For clarification, I wasn't speaking of you guys specifically in reference to the comment of communication. You guys did so fairly well, if I can remember correctly, when fighting the wererats. Just that I think it is actually one of the most important factors, rolls and movement don't mean as much when operating in a communications vacuum.
I just mean in general, as I often see that lack of successful tactical decisions being based off no one letting the rest of the group know what they are planning.
I had a TPK in my RL group (I'm running RoW), because the tank-y PC decided to break a window and run one way around a building, while the others ran the other way because they didn't know what was happening. The wizard followed the tank. It was ugly. They managed to cajole me into letting them reboot to right before he broke the window (yet he refuses to accept that it was the cause of the wipe).
I think this was a case of bad cleric-ing. I didn't catch that we were heading into a boss fight in time. Should have cast some spells right before we swam into the wreck.
I have 3 buffs still loaded, most depressingly Protection from Evil, which would have caused that dang summoned shark some problems.
I will try to rally myself during a few days vacation. I'll have intermittent access through Tuesday. Since my odds of hitting are so low, I'll just CMW folks to keep the fighters up. I'll step in with healing or Sacred Touch to stop Rutter from dying.
Yes Rutter, I completely forgot about the Harrow points. Listed under the campaign tab for anyone else that had forgotten them.
That being the case, I also forgot to include Raliscar and Vyshael in them.
Each card is associated with a specific scene, giving added benefits. Sadly, the ones rolled for the two newcomers are scenes that have already passed. They do, however, still get the Harrow points.
Also, this is Felgar's scene. As such, he gets a +2 to all rolls modified by Con, and 2 temp HP/level. That being the case, I will return 10 HP to him.
With her attacks, some of you may want to use the DR 3/- harrow point usage. Free action, only 1/encounter.
Would totally have activated that after the first full attack of much owieness.
However, I'll do it now with Rutter down for sure.
Does me no good to be a corpse with 4 Harrow Points
Sweeet. I will also activate the DR 3/-.
Engage auto-wizard. Spell list strikeouts and X's on dailies is correct on my sheet.
(So I have 3 more battleshapes left, spell list is correct, and a fair bit of rage -- but I'm fatigued for 1 more round after this attack [shocking grasp, enlarge, attack] -- so I can't rage again yet. If the hag's still there, my only spells left aren't terribly useful, but probably still a controlled rage so I can arcane strike or battleshape. [Also, would have drawn my dagger, but it's d6 enlarged, whereas my bastard sword is blade is 2d8 -- so even halved, it's a better deal]).
[See everyone on the 21 or 22]
Okay, so I was skimming the forums, and ran across these two gems:
Painlord's Guide to PbP GMing: Make Your World a Better Place
Building a Better Doomed Hero: Painlord's Advanced Play-by-Post Play
I would suggest that anyone playing PbP read them, as they are quite inclusive.
They got me thinking about what bogs me down when it comes to keeping my pace up. I think any time I have to update the map, I balk and stall. So, in the end, I'm looking to find any better ways of mapping, but I need to be able to access it both at work and at home. Also, I really don't like the homemade colored blocks of drawing it in googledocs.
Does anyone have any good ideas for mapping, or any other things to help maintain a better pace?
This combat, I think, has been a poster-child for how complicated fights can be when the z-axis is added into the consideration. It's enough work as it is tracking it all with one map, but having to update 2 for the same space (and having the second not even provided at the same scale! silly mapmakers) just seems bonkers to me.
Okay, I've been toying with the google drive for sharing mapping. I attached the map in the usual link.
Could a couple of you go in and see if you're able to move your pieces around? Just make sure they return to where they last were.
If so, I will start using this for mapping. Before, I would have to take pictures of the drawn map, uplaod to Flikr, then post the link. The process was longer and more involved.
I'm hoping this will take some of the map load off of me so I'm not dreading it and slowing myself down.
Works great! I was able to move and replace the icon with no issues. Thanks!
map is good and I can adjust Raliscar's token. I like the snap-to-grid-ness of it too, that's a nice touch.
So, based on my recent posting and links to the threads, I need to make a tough decision.
I'm coming to you guys, as you are the only game I'm running where I don't have to deal with people that post even less than I do. You guys are always around and maintain a decent post rate.
I need to cut some chaff from my other two games, but I always feel bad about it. Any suggestions on how to go about it?
Or how to tell them they need to be more involved/active or they will be cut.
The most tactful way I've seen it done was prior to the implementation of private messages - the GM checked the aliases for Player X and noted in the discussion thread that they were posting regularly in other games while participation in our game had declined. He asked Player X if they were still invested in our game or if they'd lost interest and would like to bow out.
I thought it was really well done, especially since it was out in the open for all of us to read like that. PM's of a similar sort might be a little more polite now that the feature exists, provided the player or players in question check them.
I'd apologize for raising such a sensitive issue, but then re-state expectations regarding posting rates, engagement, quality, etc. Then ask if they're still able to meet those expectations.
Regardless of the answer, let them know that you'll be enforcing these expectations by offering either a chance to step away gracefully or cutting them out of the game.
Tact is difficult to achieve with the written word, and even if done well will often result in hurt feelings. Therefore, I'd focus more on making people feel better after they improve their performance than trying to avoid any feeling of pain up front. They'll only be hurt if they care about the game, if that's any consolation.
I concur with Neva's approach...speak now or forever hold your peace.
Moving stuff on map works well for Rutter. We'll see how it works for his replacement after he bleeds out. :)
As for removing players, if you have the patience, I'd probably work it like some of the Society pbps I've played, where if someone doesn't respond w/in 24 hrs (or 36 or 48, or whatever), you just move on. Either the GM takes their turn; or they miss their turn or their chance to weigh in on the party's plans. (Have to say from experience, though, if they miss their turn in combat, it's as punishing to the other players, who might have needed that character's help, or who lost their action offering aid another to that character. Have had a GM just say, 'Hey, will someone post <absent character>'s action for this round' so at least the other PCs weren't left short by their absence.)
Warn everyone ahead of time that you want to try to pick up the pace, so it won't seem sudden. If someone doesn't keep up after they're skipped a couple times, then ask them if they really want to continue or if they'd like to write their character out at the next opportunity. As for tact, let them know you understand that real life can impose, and if it looks like their schedule will open in the near future, you're happy to keep them in the game until that time (or write them back in).
Thank you all for the advice. I think I will issue the warning that I expect to ramp the speed back up to what it should be, and see if they keep up. It's not like I go super-fast. ;)
(For those in my Shattered Star, Duboris is the one there that I may need to drop.)
On another note,
My initiative tracker. Would everyone prefer it if the order never changed and I just highlight whose turn it is somehow, or are you guys fine with the way I cycle it?
I do not have issue with your initiative tracking method. It is working splendidly.
While I can't say I found your manner of tracking initiative to be intuitive, once I understood how you structured it (which really only took one combat) I found it to work quite well. I especially appreciate the brief summary of previous actions for each of the participants.
So yeah, I think your method is rather good, Aard.
So I'm back. ;)
I have no problems with initiative as you've been doing, Aard. And I can move Vyshael on the map -- but at work often post from a mobile device that prevents me from doing that -- so sometimes I'll still have to post my movement (if someone can take up the slack)?
In terms of players dropping off, I tend to find that it works well if (for initial contct), you go from the postive reinforcement side (eg - "I notice your posts are dropping off - if something's come up in RL, please just let me know, so I can work around it -- it's just that it's starting to drag down the pacing.") in a PM, plus a "general" message in the discussion that the GM was concerned with pacing and was hoping to "pick things up".
In practice, one player admitted that they were having issues and dropped out, another that it was just a busy time at work and was put on auto-pilot (with direction from the player when possible) for a month. [To be fair, we also had one person post a "I love this game and totally want to stick with it and post more" in the discussion thread -- and that was their last post to that campaign, so grain of salt.]
Guys, I moved the loot link to the short description. That way it shows up at the top of each page. if you haven't done so yet, please check out the link and let me know if it does or doesn't work for you. It should be read only, as I have some hidden columns in there for my eyes only.
It isn't really filled in or fully ready yet, but I'm getting there. I just wanted to make sure it was working first.