I think this is from a new book and I'm fairly certain that I saw it on Archives of Nethys but I can't seem to find it. Nor do I remember the name of said rage power. I think it was a rage power and not a feat.
Essentially you get an extra attack but you get a penalty to AC...or is it attacks? I can't remember.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks. :)
No it was a rage power. I think it's from People of the Wastes which is the one thing down on Archives of Nethys.
Funny enough, I wanted to see if it would stack with Wild Rager. I doubt it will but checking it out can't hurt. :)
Or I'm nuts. Thanks though. :)
There is a rage power that gives you more attack BONUS at the penalty of AC, called Reckless Abandon. I am not aware of any powers granting you an additional attack. Furious Barrage lets you throw an additional throwing weapon as if using rapid shot.
Maybe I'm nuts. :(
Rycaut & DeathlessOne I'm aware of both of those powers.
Thanks though. :)
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unfettered rage feat I believe is what you're looking for.
Yes thank you!
So does this stack with:
Wild Fighting (Ex): At 2nd level, even when not raging, wild ragers often fight with reckless, savage abandon. A wild rager using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at her highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of her next turn, however, she takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and –4 penalty to AC. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Unfettered Rage: While raging, when you make a full attack with a melee weapon, you can expend an extra round of rage and make one additional attack at your highest base attack bonus, taking a –2 penalty on all of your attacks and a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You cannot use this ability if there are any allies within 5 feet of you or of any squares you threaten. This benefit does not stack with similar effects, such as haste.
Is Wild Fighting a similar effect?
no, basically "such as haste" will have 1 of 2 phrases
"grants an extra attack like haste"
"grants an extra attack, doesn't stack with haste"
Wildfighting doesn't mention haste so it's not similar to haste.
Sweet. Hello lots of attacks. :)
Thanks. :)
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"This benefit does not stack with similar effects, such as haste." probably mean
"This benefit does not stack with similar effects that add extra attacks, such as haste."
If you look p. 23 of the book, you will see that adding those words is very close to having to start a new row of text. But then you will have to resize the image, as that feat is the last one of the paragraph and there is no space to spare.
I am surprised that it don't work with haste, as generally feats that add extra attacks work with haste while they don't work with other feats that add extra attacks.
Well, if it did stack with Haste, it would be almost a must-have feat. Of course, not stacking with Haste et al. makes it all but useless, seeing how cheap Boots of Speed are.
I only care if it stacks with wild fighting. :)
"even when not raging" means it can be used while raging or not.
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my reading of Wild Fighting is it needs you to NOT be raging.
even when NOT raging barbarians can still do things, you can use this ability. is my read on it
At 2nd level, even when not raging, wild ragers often fight with reckless, savage abandon. A wild rager using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at her highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of her next turn, however, she takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and –4 penalty to AC.
If it was when not raging it would say when not raging. If it was when raging it would say when raging. It says even while not raging, meaning both when and when not raging. Your read is wrong.
Hmm well author's intent is a bit tricky to guess here. I think it's poorly worded.
I guess I can see how you would take it either way.
I think picking a new archetype solves the problem! :)
Doesn’t look like it stacks to me. It says it doesn’t stack with similar effects (i.e. effects that grant an extra attack on full attacks at full BAB), and gives Haste as an example. Wild Fighting is even more similar than Haste (also applying similar penalties), and thus wouldn’t stack.
Allowing them to stack once Haste would be available to Wizard (level 5) is pretty reasonable, though, since it’s not as strong as having Haste cast on you and doesn’t stack with Haste.
Man, that's a pretty good ability, even if it doesn't stack with Haste or other effects (depending on party composition).
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Man, that's a pretty good ability, even if it doesn't stack with Haste or other effects (depending on party composition).not really there are way to many drawbacks for the boon it gives, would be easier and better just to get a cohort to follow you around and cast haste for you every combat, like would weapon focus be any good if it gave a +2 to hit but you had to be doing a hand stand, it didn't stack with bab bonus to hit and you also have to take 5 hp damage each round you want to use it the answer to that would be no, this ability is no different
Most campaigns don't allow cohorts or anything like that so it's not an options for most people.
a -2 to all attacks for an extra attack is quite good for DPR. You're using one weapon so full enhancements and 1.5 str and power attack to damage.Like it's rapid shot for melee attacks and rapid shot is considered a great feat for damage.
Yes it's not good if you have a haste-bot in the party. But if there's not reliable haste then it's really a good option.
As someone who played a charging barbarian, my character was rarely adjacent to other player character except at the start of combat.
And, spending an extra round of rage isn't a big deal, at least not by like level 5. If you start with 14 con, you'll start with 6 rounds of rage. By level 5 you have at least 14 rounds of rage. That's enough for 5 combats with an average of 3 rounds of combat (pretty average combat length in my experience) and 5 combats per day is usually far more than what my group normally experiences. So with that in mind, you can probably afford to burn some rounds of rage without it being too much of a problem to really throw down some extra damage when needed.
If you have someone who consistently provides haste to the party then it's not any good, but outside of that it's a pretty useful power and works well with Beast Totem.
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we get it Lady-J, it's not a good thing for your games. But for many people and many games the condition of no allies near you AND no haste isn't that uncommon.
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when a party usually has 3 if not more frontliners there will nearly always be some one with in 5 foot of you, the enemy you threaten or the squares you threaten and with certain builds you can get like a 30+ foot reach so it can be quite difficult to keep all allies outside of your reach at all times every single combat
In most playing groups a party hasn't 3 or more frontliners.
Most barbarians try to get pounce, so they often reach the enemy first and do a full attack. Adding an attack when pouncing st the expense of 1 round of rage? I think most pouncing barbarians will like it.
when a party usually has 3 if not more frontliners there will nearly always be some one with in 5 foot of you, the enemy you threaten or the squares you threaten and with certain builds you can get like a 30+ foot reach so it can be quite difficult to keep all allies outside of your reach at all times every single combatIn most playing groups a party hasn't 3 or more frontliners.
Most barbarians try to get pounce, so they often reach the enemy first and do a full attack. Adding an attack when pouncing st the expense of 1 round of rage? I think most pouncing barbarians will like it.
Most games only have 4-5 players. All of them being frontliners isn't normal in my experience.
Yeah? How many does the barbarian get?bare minimum of 3 of the other options
how about you list them?
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Wild Fighting require you to play a Wild Rager, which has the drawback of uncontrolled rage, which is not very group friendly.
Speed and Boots of Haste are not "barbarian" options. They are options that come from items, and at least in the case of the weapon special ability, is not cheap.
Boots of Haste are relatively cheap, but there are many possibilities for what you might rather have instead. Like a pouncing barbarian may prefer featherstep slippers.
Yeah? How many does the barbarian get?
1. Boots of Speed
2. Playing in a party with someone with Haste3. Playing in a party with someone with Blessing of Fervor
4. Playing in a party with someone with an improved Familiar equiped with a Wand of Haste
5. Iron Will, Familiar Bond, Improved Familiar, and a Wand of Haste.
Speed and Boots of Haste are not "barbarian" options.
Irrelevant - Barbarian has access to them.
Yes, the feat can be nice in certain campaigns/groups, but it's not something most Barbarians will want to pick up.
Doesn’t look like it stacks to me. It says it doesn’t stack with similar effects (i.e. effects that grant an extra attack on full attacks at full BAB), and gives Haste as an example. Wild Fighting is even more similar than Haste (also applying similar penalties), and thus wouldn’t stack.
It's not clear, but I'd presume it only doesn't stack with any other effect that has a similar disclaimer.
A Speed weapon is not a viable option for most campaigns, because of the absurd cost associated with adding it to a +X weapon. Assuming you're level 10 and are adding it to a +2 weapon, you're looking at 42,000 GP. That's almost 70% of your WBL for a single enhancement (and over 80% for a single weapon). These numbers get worse if you're trying to add it to a +3 weapon. That's not something I would want to plan for in most campaigns.
Boots of Speed are great, but as noted by Claxon, there is a significant opportunity cost associated with using the Feet slot.
To me, Unfettered Rage looks like a very nice feat. If I were playing a Barbarian, I would strongly consider picking it up. It also has the benefit of working even if Haste is dispelled, or if Haste is not up for a given encounter. The downsides aren't that big, given the potential damage increase when the feat is being used and the lack of feat taxes to pick it up.
So the question was ways to get extra attacks that weren't haste. "there are many more ways than just haste to get an extra attack"
So all the different ways to get haste don't meet this.
Boots of speed is haste so it doesn't count.
Speed weapon does count, but will be coming in quite late due to cost.
And wild fighting counts too, is what the OP is using, and stacks with the feat for even more attacks.
So so far we have speed weapon that counts and doesn't stack. Seems like this feat is in a pretty good space.
So as I see it.
We know how the feat works. I think it's worth it on it's own.
The grey part is how does it work with Wild Fighting and how does Wild Fighting work on it's own?
I think there are enough questions that using the Wild Rager is a bad idea at this point. I was more or less just theory crafting.
Regardless, if I ever play a barbarian I will most likely take this feat. :)
wild fighting can be used whenever you make a full attack to have an extra attack and all attacks take -2 to them
the feat with wild fighting it adds another attack and all attacks take another -2 to them.
I think that makes sense. However, it's worded a bit poorly and some are arguing otherwise.
I mean if Wild Fighting didn't work like that then the Wild Rager is hardly worth it.
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So the question was ways to get extra attacks that weren't haste. "there are many more ways than just haste to get an extra attack"
Oops, you're right. In my defense, I tend to read Cavall's or Lady-J's post as little as possible, as in my experience, the posts of both of them tend to have little to do with reality.
The grey part is how does it work with Wild Fighting and how does Wild Fighting work on it's own?
I think there are enough questions that using the Wild Rager is a bad idea at this point.
Wild Fighting works just fine as long as you don't screw the english language while interpreting it. "even when" simple isn't the same as "when" - the porpose of "even when" is to remove exceptions, not create them.
Example: "Even when it rains, I bike to work." Do you think that means I use the car when it's dry and ride the bike when it's rainy?