If enough other things fall in the pit that you can get to level 4 by fighting them, you can just use your climb speed...
I would probably allow an ooze to use a rope or a ladder just by sticking to it and slithering, but that's kind of what the climb speed does and they don't have that at level 1.
GM note- no pits until the Oozemorph is level 4.
GM note- no pits until the Oozemorph is level 4.
Well at least after they used their once a day ability. Sadly, it's goes from super simple to impossible.
PS: It also makes me wonder if they have 'hands' enough to climb with climb speed, what stops them from doing the same with holding items? If they can crasp handholds...? If it's just adhesion, then again, what stops that from working on an item?
Also no wizards with Wizened / Youthful Appearance. That's just rude and will make your player leave the group.
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Wait it just hit me what if the Oozemorph is bad early on because it was supposed to be an archetype for PFS use for all the players with "Lvl 5 Nameless GM blob #17" in their character roster?
I'd believe that if there weren't so many new interactions with the rules due to everything about them.
I wonder if a practical solution for this is to just say- the Oozemorph can use skills when an ooze, all of them, whatever. Just roll the dice then we'll make sense of the result.
I mean, this is going to conflict with how Bestiary oozes work, but the oozemorph is not an ooze. Perhaps the reason bestiary oozes aren't jumping around or performing comedy (by miming) is that they just didn't think of it either by not being raised in a society that values the arts or just by being mindless so they don't think of much.
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I wonder if a practical solution for this is to just say- the Oozemorph can use skills when an ooze, all of them, whatever. Just roll the dice then we'll make sense of the result.
For this "practical solution" to work, we'd have to drop most of the restrictions they have. The restriction on holding objects and speaking alone torpedo ANY attempt to 'make sense' of most rolls.
'how again did imitating jiggling jello seduce the guard again?'
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Maybe that guard's just got a weird kink, we don't know.
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Remember, you don't need to hold anything for Perform (Juggling). Holding things is sort of contrary to the point of juggling.
It's conceivable that the guard seduced by a jell-o impression was merely very hungry.
What about bluffing, is that possible without a form to speak of?
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Remember, you don't need to hold anything for Perform (Juggling). Holding things is sort of contrary to the point of juggling.
Is picking up something contrary? Can you throw something without having it in a hand first? If we go with you, that's mean oozemorphs can use thrown weapons as the aren't holding them... And that would also mean that animal companions/familiars can also do the same, so juggling pigs/snakes are fine...
It's conceivable that the guard seduced by a jell-o impression was merely very hungry.
That's a guard that isn't going to live long if they start putting strange things in their mouth...
Maybe that guard's just got a weird kink, we don't know.
Backs away slowly...
What about bluffing, is that possible without a form to speak of?
LOL Makes as much sense as juggling snakes and seductive jello...
After the last session I'm probably gonna multiclass at level 7 if my Oozemorph even survives that long. The class just doesn't get enough to do on its own to make it fun to play. And I shouldn't be forced to have 18 CON to survive even a level 2 encounter.
Edit: Now that I think about it, they should make some sort of Oracle Curse lite for the Oozemorph's base form that doesn't make it more attractive to be in ooze form all the time, but helps the class survive at lower levels.
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I feel like I would allow Disable Device in ooze-form. If you can manifest a sword out of your ooze, you can probably manifest a lockpick too. Stealth, Climb (redundant), Swim, and Escape Artist (should you need to roll this? How does one tie up an ooze?) should all be okay. Acrobatics should be either a "no" or a "you can just do this" depending on what it is- an ooze can't jump but also won't lose footing on a slippery surface. I would allow an acrobatics roll to avoid provoking to represent just flowing out of the way of any attacks.
Problem with most skills is that the oozemorph can't really do anything that involves communicating. So even if you can identify the monster with a knowledge roll, you can't tell anybody.
I tend to go with a more liberal interpretation....it doesnt say you can't make Acrobatics checks, and you are mobile, and fluid, so I can see it as actually being easier in some cases.
Escape artist...you have compression, just flow right out of the manicals.
Jump.....that was gives me pause....but I can envision it looking like a slinky going from one step to the next....so I don't see why not :P
On that note, can someone point me to the actual compression rules ?
I still need to figure out what that can and can't manage ;)
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Compression (Ex) The creature can move through an area as small as one-quarter its space without squeezing or one-eighth its space when squeezing.
Format: compression; Location: Special Qualities.
After the last session I'm probably gonna multiclass at level 7 if my Oozemorph even survives that long. The class just doesn't get enough to do on its own to make it fun to play. And I shouldn't be forced to have 18 CON to survive even a level 2 encounter.
Edit: Now that I think about it, they should make some sort of Oracle Curse lite for the Oozemorph's base form that doesn't make it more attractive to be in ooze form all the time, but helps the class survive at lower levels.
As you have some practical experience....
Originally I was building Oozemorph 4/Brawler from then on...With the changes (Shifters Fury) I'm thinking the two additional levels to get Shifters Fury and one more Morphic weapon attack may do everything I expected Brawler/Feral combat to do....
So now I'm considering Oozemorph 6...Barbarian/Urban/Invulnerable...I'm building to be as much like a Mezlan as possible (which I can get closer to with controlled rage + rage powers)...
What do you think ?
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Remember, you don't need to hold anything for Perform (Juggling). Holding things is sort of contrary to the point of juggling.Is picking up something contrary? Can you throw something without having it in a hand first? If we go with you, that's mean oozemorphs can use thrown weapons as the aren't holding them... And that would also mean that animal companions/familiars can also do the same, so juggling pigs/snakes are fine...
It's conceivable that the guard seduced by a jell-o impression was merely very hungry.That's a guard that isn't going to live long if they start putting strange things in their mouth...
Maybe that guard's just got a weird kink, we don't know.Backs away slowly...
What about bluffing, is that possible without a form to speak of?LOL Makes as much sense as juggling snakes and seductive jello...
Oh for hell's sake people.....I'm still trying to figure out what drooling foreword in a menacing fashion is :P
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Bluff check as an ooze- the guard asks which way did they go?
Oozemorph forms into an arrow pointing the wrong way, does the guard believe the ooze is genuine?
I would also allow the ooze to form into a thumbs up/thumbs down to answer yes/no questions. I'm totally inclined to waive "an oozemorph can't hold or manipulate objects" so long as it's for comedy and not fighting.
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Oh for hell's sake people.....I'm still trying to figure out what drooling foreword in a menacing fashion is :P
You've never coughed up something and been shocked by it? That's my best guess.
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Bluff check as an ooze- the guard asks which way did they go?
Oozemorph forms into an arrow pointing the wrong way, does the guard believe the ooze is genuine?
I would also allow the ooze to form into a thumbs up/thumbs down to answer yes/no questions. I'm totally inclined to waive "an oozemorph can't hold or manipulate objects" so long as it's for comedy and not fighting.
Most Guards in any game I've ever played in would either kill the ooze, thinking it a dangerous creature, or run away from it and call for backup, making a bluff or diplomacy check impossible for them to do anyway.
In short, I find Oozemorph as a GM archetype for NPC Shifters, since most typical characters would not appropriately function as an ooze in a normal game.
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Most Guards in any game I've ever played in would either kill the ooze, thinking it a dangerous creature, or run away from it and call for backup, making a bluff or diplomacy check impossible for them to do anyway.
In short, I find Oozemorph as a GM archetype for NPC Shifters, since most typical characters would not appropriately function as an ooze in a normal game.
I feel like "the PCs are something weird" is a can of worms that you might not want to open and if you do, probably take it all the way to its conclusion.
Like if a Human Oozemorph, and Astomoi Psychic, a Cecaelia Cleric, and a Kasatha Bolt Ace walk/slither/sidle/whatever into a tavern, who is going to get the weirdest looks? I'm disinclined to say "no, too weird" to any of those things unless I'm going to say it to all similarly odd options.
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"You see the blob at the end of the counter? One of my best customers, always pays and tips well, sometimes even buys rounds for the house. Clean, too, never see them spilling their beer all over the place if they miss their mouth. If you want to start something with them, you'll get thrown out on your ear."
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I'm totally inclined to waive "an oozemorph can't hold or manipulate objects" so long as it's for comedy and not fighting.
For myself, I'm not BECAUSE they aren't allowed to do it in combat. What possible plausible answer to suddenly lose an ability as simple as grab/hold because a monster comes by? I'd be more inclined to say they could grab large items without fine manipulation [ooze up a ladder] in combat than to say they can write calligraphy or juggle 'just not in combat'.
Oozemorph forms into an arrow pointing the wrong way, does the guard believe the ooze is genuine?
I'd question why they have such fine control to express words but are unable to pick up a log and hold it...
I'm disinclined to say "no, too weird"
They're a limit though. The Astomoi, Cecaelia, and Kasatha can comunitate and show they are intelligent creatures. The blob form oozemorph can't. How does the blob show they are different than the typical wandering monster? The Astomoi, Cecaelia, and Kasatha wear clothes and talk to people while the blob... blobs? I'm going out on a limb to allow them to use sign language without manipulative limbs but it seems a leap of faith to pretend they can be differentiated from monster oozes by locals because a PC happens to run them.
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Linguistics rolls sadly. And hope to whatever your character worships to that they don't try to stab you during your attempt to sign at them really, really badly.
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As you have some practical experience....
Originally I was building Oozemorph 4/Brawler from then on...With the changes (Shifters Fury) I'm thinking the two additional levels to get Shifters Fury and one more Morphic weapon attack may do everything I expected Brawler/Feral combat to do....
So now I'm considering Oozemorph 6...Barbarian/Urban/Invulnerable...I'm building to be as much like a Mezlan as possible (which I can get closer to with controlled rage + rage powers)...
What do you think ?
That seems to be a good idea since you're already heavily invested in Constitution to begin with due to your horrible AC at low levels due to not being able to use gear most of a day. I'd recommend not using Shifter's fury as soon as you get it with lv 6, as 3 primary attacks is gonna be better than any combo of secondary hits + the iteratives, at least at level 6. Later on it could be useful though. also good luck figuring out uses for Compression.
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Most Guards in any game I've ever played in would either kill the ooze, thinking it a dangerous creature, or run away from it and call for backup, making a bluff or diplomacy check impossible for them to do anyway.
In short, I find Oozemorph as a GM archetype for NPC Shifters, since most typical characters would not appropriately function as an ooze in a normal game.
I feel like "the PCs are something weird" is a can of worms that you might not want to open and if you do, probably take it all the way to its conclusion.
Like if a Human Oozemorph, and Astomoi Psychic, a Cecaelia Cleric, and a Kasatha Bolt Ace walk/slither/sidle/whatever into a tavern, who is going to get the weirdest looks? I'm disinclined to say "no, too weird" to any of those things unless I'm going to say it to all similarly odd options.
This ultimately depends on what kind of guards we're talking about. Human guards? Orc guards? Demon guards? They will approach and view each of them differently (or perhaps not at all).
In the case of typical Human Guards, they can still talk to the other 3 and convey that they are bound by the rules of the town, or question them if they are involved with anything suspicious. Whether those guards will believe anything the PCs say or not, or find them likeable can be more indicative of their Diplomacy skills or Charisma checks, which is baseline in most any game.
The Oozemorph, on the other hand, can only participate in such skills or checks 1 out of 24 hours starting out, and among those other 3, is the most likely to fail those checks and/or not even have a chance to make those checks simply due to how bad their mechanics are, and simply possess a complete lack of proper interaction with the world compared to those other characters.
In my games, the Guards might be leery of such outsiders (and probably even scared), but they might change their attitude over time and exposure to them. With an Oozemorph, that opportunity will most likely be outright nixed due to outright confusion and inability to differentiate between unusual citizen and outside creature. A higher level Oozemorph might circumvent this if he is prepared enough, but the factor that only higher level Oozemorphs can do this really only indicates that it's more of a GM NPC archetype, where he can throw them in to fitting situations.
That seems to be a good idea since you're already heavily invested in Constitution to begin with due to your horrible AC at low levels due to not being able to use gear most of a day. I'd recommend not using Shifter's fury as soon as you get it with lv 6, as 3 primary attacks is gonna be better than any combo of secondary hits + the iteratives, at least at level 6. Later on it could be useful though. also good luck figuring out uses for Compression.As you have some practical experience....
Originally I was building Oozemorph 4/Brawler from then on...With the changes (Shifters Fury) I'm thinking the two additional levels to get Shifters Fury and one more Morphic weapon attack may do everything I expected Brawler/Feral combat to do....
So now I'm considering Oozemorph 6...Barbarian/Urban/Invulnerable...I'm building to be as much like a Mezlan as possible (which I can get closer to with controlled rage + rage powers)...
What do you think ?
And later, level 12, can access to Raging Brutality, adding some CON to damage of morphic weapons
Now here's your issue: Surviving that long with limited up time on using your armor.
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Now here's your issue: Surviving that long with limited up time on using your armor.
What melee combatant DOESN'T want just their dex to AC 23 hours out of the day...
Moral of the story: pray you can miraculously spawn into existence at 6th level and those first few levels are just a bad dream. :P
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A lot of APs start out with a sequence for 1st level characters that can be completed in an hour and then you rest, right?
Like you decide to spend your daily bipedal hour enjoying the festival in Sandpoint, and then goblins attack, after which you are a hero so they are forced to accept you.
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A lot of APs start out with a sequence for 1st level characters that can be completed in an hour and then you rest, right?
Like you decide to spend your daily bipedal hour enjoying the festival in Sandpoint, and then goblins attack, after which you are a hero so they are forced to accept you.
Ok, so you manage to do EVERYTHING in a single hour and then fall into a blob for 23 hours... Best case you get a level and pray the next 'adventure' is 2 hours and worth a new level before you hide for 22 for hours.
So if you manage to make it through 2 super short adventures of hopefully 2 levels of experience you THEN get the ability to go 3 hours straight before becoming useless for 21 hours...
Gods help you as ANY of the encounters in those 3 levels actually require time between them or you have to either hide while yourself while the rest of the party does the work or you get yourself killed doing the only thing you can do: melee attack with a ridiculously low AC. Until 4th, you're stuck with only a single change per day and it gets pretty contrived to have those first 3 levels take place only during the times the oozemorph is shifted.
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I just remembered the opening scene of Carrion Crown and how hilarious it would be if your erstwhile job as a
Or in Skull and Shackles, where you get
Maybe Hell's Rebels where you
Yeah all those situations seem absolutely terrible for an Oozemorph. A shame that no one will ever okay this class in their group due to the player not being able to do anything aside from be an extension of the GM for X hours a day.
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I just remembered the opening scene of Carrion Crown and how hilarious it would be if your erstwhile job as a ** spoiler omitted ** were to be failed because you turned into an ooze at an inopportune moment.
Or in Skull and Shackles, where you get ** spoiler omitted ** Are they gonna just throw you overboard once they realize you can't really help much on a ship because you're an ooze?
Maybe Hell's Rebels where you ** spoiler omitted ** so when you finally meet the person you are now incapable of talking?
I imagine it would be all about time management. So as to avoid dropping the weight or not participating in that conversation.
As for Skull & Shackles. I can see the evil crew working the oozemorph the one hour and then keeping them as a tormented pet.
I imagine it would be all about time management.
This is a pretty big if, as it assumes that the player and not the DM is controlling the games pacing. It assumes that the rest of the game world stops for the 23 hours you can't do anything useful just because of good "time management." That and that you can somehow 'plan' all the days encounters to happen one after another into an hours time.
I imagine it would be all about time management.This is a pretty big if, as it assumes that the player and not the DM is controlling the games pacing. It assumes that the rest of the game world stops for the 23 hours you can't do anything useful just because of good "time management." That and that you can somehow 'plan' all the days encounters to happen one after another into an hours time.
I was thinking time management in regards to social duties or activities as presented in the examples. My apologies if I implied this on a larger scale.
The problem with S&S is the crew wouldn't know if the blob was able to understand human speech. So they'd probably attack it.
I mean, the basic way level 1 adventures start is basically structured as-
1) Some crisis thrusts the party together and they have some series of obstacles to overcome so that they feel heroic but aren't overtaxed.
2) Some congratulatory/investigatory/refractory period, in which which the PCs talk to each other, are congratulated, are told what's up, are clued into the plot, etc.
3) Rest.
So what's the best way an oozemorph could manage this short of "making a whole bunch of fort saves"? Survive the inciting incident as an ooze, then make introductions as a person trying to hurry through #2?
Yup. How I did it with my character is I just shape shifted in front of the party as soon as I met them and explained my living situation in the terms of that character's intelligence. I then proceeded to do the combat in Ooze form because it took an hours to travel to where we needed to go.
Good god I don't. I just don't overextend myself with tempting fate on staying whatever form I am for more than my normal shapeshifting hours. As limited as they may be. The fact that at level 1 that is an extremely brutal chance of just suddenly flopping into a blob even on the first roll.
I was thinking time management in regards to social duties or activities as presented in the examples. My apologies if I implied this on a larger scale.I imagine it would be all about time management.This is a pretty big if, as it assumes that the player and not the DM is controlling the games pacing. It assumes that the rest of the game world stops for the 23 hours you can't do anything useful just because of good "time management." That and that you can somehow 'plan' all the days encounters to happen one after another into an hours time.
Limiting it to specific known encounters is much more viable but it's pretty constrained by the time limit.
"Each hour after this duration, the oozemorph must succeed at a DC 15 Fortitude save or revert back to her fluidic body until she rests for at least 8 hours. This save DC increases by 1 for each additional hour spent maintaining the form."
Are people just ignoring this part of Fluidic body? Because you sure seem to be. Which is a bit ironic as so many of you are quite quick to point out the new wild shape is level + wisdom modifier.
Not ignored but dismissed as it's a random event: At best, you might make your 1st level save DC 15 50% of the time... So I'm not going to assume it's multiple hours.
Secondly... Lets assume you make one or two saves... Is all of your days adventure done in that time [3 hours]? Does this help if you have several hours between meaningful encounters? Does it help in a night encounter? An encounter in the middle of travel? IMO, the fort save isn't a viable replacement for a palatable duration of daily usefulness.
With any sort of travel, it just isn't even worth attempting the Fort saves. It's flat out better to just stick in your base form and not do anything until combat begins. Which is a real garbage way to have to play. Most people don't want to sit on their thumbs while everyone role plays.
Are people just ignoring this part of Fluidic body? Because you sure seem to be. Which is a bit ironic as so many of you are quite quick to point out the new wild shape is level + wisdom modifier.
Probably because at level 1 with a 16 con (which is pretty high) the expected value for "number of hours you will stay bipedal" is about 2.86, all of which must be contiguous.
Even with an 18 Con and spending a valuable feat on Great Fortitude on a good fort save class with high con, you have a 35% change of failing that first save and it's not like you have a reroll available.
Honestly though perhaps the best way for a GM to make a low-level Oozemorph playable is to skip the need for the save as is narratively appropriate. Either that, or let oozes talk.
Even going all in and wasting an 18 on Con its just not a save that's able to reliably be passed. And Great Fortitude. Being forced to take everything to up your Fort save to just interact like a Player Character of any other class in the game is just not exciting for someone to deal with at all.
Generally I just force my character to run, since they've still got 120ft run speed with a 30ft race.
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With any sort of travel, it just isn't even worth attempting the Fort saves. It's flat out better to just stick in your base form and not do anything until combat begins. Which is a real garbage way to have to play. Most people don't want to sit on their thumbs while everyone role plays.
And what happens if everyone else rides a horse? Do you have to ride a cart/wagon? slosh round in a saddlebag [and severely overburden a horse ridden by someone else]? Be luggage on a pack animal and hope it stays tethered?
it's not like the blob can DO anything other than attack and move...
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But you cannot actually etch messages into the ground without DM fiat. So you just want your party to babysit your blob while they do nothing but try and badly rp flubber? That's not any good. And it's not like I haven't played the class, since I would not be nearly as disappointed with this archetype if I hadn't played it as I need to [see] the mechanics in action (plot twist, it doesn't fly very well). The problem isn't that the class isn't a hilarious Dip. The problem is that the class is flat out horrible at the only things it can do, while not ever getting better at staying alive and contributing as a class in any fashion that would matter for any AP, or most player campaigns even.
Even going all in and wasting an 18 on Con its just not a save that's able to reliably be passed. And Great Fortitude. Being forced to take everything to up your Fort save to just interact like a Player Character of any other class in the game is just not exciting for someone to deal with at all.
Well, you can be a 'human' blob and take great fort, imp great fort, and a trait like Spirit Animal [+1 fort save] and Lessons of Chaldira [1/day save reroll]... So you suck at everything non-fort save related for a few extra hours before you then suck at everything as a blob... :P
Not being able to speak because of being in ooze form is no different than a character that is mute, or one that stays all their time in wild shape.
No it's not... It's like a mute without arms that can't use any equipment or meaningfully communicate or even lift/hold objects... It LITERALLY can only attack and move.
You think those extra Wis mod hours are such a big deal for the Shifter
They have MULTIPLE one hour blocks of use and can ACTUALLY do things in either form. An ape can point, a tiger can scratch out a message, a bird can pick up a wand... and at worst, without changing shape, they STILL have humanoid form and can use items. it's not even a little comparable to oozemorphs.
Why don't you try to actually play and experience the class/archetype
I HAVE... GodsBlister has... Have YOU?
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Honestly I feel that they should rewrite the flavor block to say something along the lines of an Oozemorph being unable to become human again once they gained rudimentary shape of an ooze. Some sort of underdog feel to it, as the class is mainly a major underdog at basically existing. It would be real cool if they could just flip the archetype's abilities around a bit to show off their struggle to survive in their terrifying new world. But world of darkness, this is not.