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Ready an action to lob a flask of alchemist's fire at him the moment he tries anything... then ask him if he's going to take his turn extinguishing himself, or whipping out his highly flammable black powder to load his guns... when on fire...
Or, if you're close to him, assuming he's not starting with a weapon in hand and isn't an expert unarmed fighter on top of everything else, ready an action to grapple him with your superior strength, then proceed to pin and tie him up until he calms the heck down...
I could take his stuff, but the DM is pretty strict about good/evil acts.
And that's reasonable - but there's a big difference between "taking his stuff" and "making sure that when he wakes up, he doesn't have it at hand, giving you a chance to talk first."
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I'm not responsible for the coma, he took a bunch of intelligence damage. Saving him was somebody elses choice.
he's a level higher than me, so he has manyshot w/ seventh level
I completely forgot about alchemist's fire! that could go well.
i could take his stuff, but the DM is pretty strict about good/evil acts.
Hide his stuff, and yours. If he tries to start a fight, go at him at an equal level. IE, barehanded. After everything is sorted out, show him where both your stuff is. Run this past your GM, as you are trying to settle things without lethal consequences.
BTW, how does many-shot work out? In PFS, there are no firearms that support it (IE, no revolvers and no lever-action rifles). As in, you can't reload fast enough to make it work.
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I'm not responsible for the coma, he took a bunch of intelligence damage. Saving him was somebody elses choice.
he's a level higher than me, so he has manyshot w/ seventh level
I completely forgot about alchemist's fire! that could go well.
i could take his stuff, but the DM is pretty strict about good/evil acts.
Then I fail to see why the Gunslinger would go after you, unless he believes you are responsible for his condition. More information and backstory as to why this might be the case would be appreciated.
Being down a level is a huge disadvantage, and the GM giving him houserule advantages means you probably won't win a direct fight, Alchemist's Fire or not. (It also allows a saving throw to avoid catching fire, if I remember correctly.)
As the others said, you aren't "taking" his stuff. You're confiscating it for your own safety, as well as the potential safety of others, until he can once again be trusted to use such tools of death and war responsibly.
First this a pc vs pc thing and not a player vs player thing right?
You and the other player are okay with possible PC death etc?
If so then you could make sure he wakes up in a very lawful populated area and if he attacks you he goes to jail. :)
Any other NPC's around that could make this in your favour?
Be unarmed but have your weapons somewhat close by. Try and talk him out of it. If he attacks you with the intent to kill you that is an evil act. Pick up sword and javelins(shield is pointless) and smite away. :)
Save up enough money for an atonement spell. You too can be an anti-paladin for a day. He doesn't even have to wake up. Feel bad then atone. :)
Okay the last one is dirty. :)
Use disguise and pretend you're someone else? :)
Can't the rest of the party help you out in anyway?
Then I fail to see why the Gunslinger would go after you, unless he believes you are responsible for his condition. More information and backstory as to why this might be the case would be appreciated.I'm a paladin of Abadar, god of law and cities. He broke the law on multiple occasions, so I neglected to heal him. the GM ruled that was fine, but the PC knew, and started plotting. When the gunslinger started taking intelligence damage, they blamed me, the 'healer'.
As the others said, you aren't "taking" his stuff. You're confiscating it for your own safety, as well as the potential safety of others, until he can once again be trusted to use such tools of death and war responsibly.I'll run it past the GM. it sounds like it'll work.
Thanks, everyone, for all of the suggestions!
Yeah, I'd explain in-character how your powers can't be used for just anyone, and supporting someone who is diametrically opposed to the things you hold dear is not something your faith would permit you to do. Unfortunately, this may result in a difference of opinion and the leaving of one or both characters from the party.
It should work. You're doing the laws and cities a favor by being proactive in the face of a potential criminal or vigilante. If that's not a good enough reason, then nothing is, and you'll have to reason through another method.
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One other thing, use the targeted mercy (level 6, from healer's handbook) on yourself. That means the gunslinger would have to make a willsave to be able to attack you at all. Also, the moment he actually attacks you, an ally on the side of good while he is someone who broke the law on multiple occasions, that might be enough for the gunslinger's alignment to shift towards evil. At that point, smite evil would start working, which also applies to your touch ac.
The best course of action as stated would be to hand him over to the authorities while comatose, provided there is proof that he actually comitted a number of crimes. If there isn't but you bore witness to the events, and you have the money, bring his body to local law enforecement, then pay for a casting of Abadar's truthtelling and use it on the gunslinger when he wakes up.
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Reading through this thread...I might suggest that unless you have stronger ties to the party than the gunslinger has, that you simply wish the party well and exit saying something to the effect of "I can't in good conscience travel with this person who offends that which I stand for". Yes it means you have to start a new character, but I can't honestly see a paladin sticking around someone who offends them. And since you're a paladin "disposing" of the offending party isn't something you would do either. But in character you seem very much aware of the gunslinger's animosity towards you, so it would be reasonable to leave to avoid your death or theirs.
You could also have your character go to the town guard and volunteer their service (given you some limited protection by working with the government) and informing them to look out for the gunslinger explaining what he has done, but that you lack any evidence beyond your word. They might not arrest him, but might be watching him for anything he might attempt to do. And if your working with the government you've got some protection.
This is probably the best case scenario you could hope for. A one on one fight will almost certainly lead to the death of your character, since a competently built gunslinger can most likely deal enough damage to kill you in a full attack. Especially with house rules that make it more in his favor.
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I had a similar situation. One of my players has a cleric of Abadar, another has a barbarian. The barbarian was disrespectful at a temple dedication and, on top of that, attacked the cleric when he was called on it. The guards broke it up, but the cleric spent the next 9 or so levels carefully positioning himself far enough away for channels to miss the barbarian, and only healing him when he paid for it (via buying wands, etc.). If it were life-or-death he'd still heal him, but that was more for the sake of the party than the barbarian.
As the GM, I said I wasn't going to intervene (it wasn't really getting in the way of the game) and their characters had to work it out if they wanted it resolved. Eventually the barbarian confronted the cleric about it. The cleric laid out the details of why he wasn't healing him, and they worked out a deal for how the barbarian could atone (I believe it involved a sizable donation to the temple of Abadar when next they returned to Magnimar and a public apology at the temple in question).
Not sure if that'd work in your case, but maybe try having your paladin lay out the case against the gunslinger by way of explanation and offer a means of atonement for his crimes as an alternative to killing each other.
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i could take his stuff, but the DM is pretty strict about good/evil acts.
In what universe is taking someone's weapons before he can commit murder with them evil?
we did agree that this was inevitable, though.
I don't see why, to be honest. So the Gunslinger wants to kill the Paladin as revenge for not healing someone who constantly violats everything the Paladin stands for? I'd call that sociopathic and about the polar opposite of normal behaviour.
BTW, how does many-shot work out? In PFS, there are no firearms that support it (IE, no revolvers and no lever-action rifles). As in, you can't reload fast enough to make it work.
Er, alchemical cartridges plus Rapid Reload makes reloading a free action for pistols, Musket Master archetype expands it for muskets.
Also, it's obviously not PFS.
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You could leave a note saying go to the old mill (or whatever) at 9 pm if you're looking to resolve this with violence(away from innocent bystanders). If you want to talk it out meet me at the tavern at 10 pm.
Also, note that I can't heal you if I'm dead.
Then go to the tavern and wait to see who shows up first him or the local law enforcement that was waiting at the old mill for him to show up. You know the people that read the same note you wrote and watched you leave it with him. The note he'll probably have on him when he gets arrested. If you draw a map on the note where to meet he'll most certainly have it on him. :)
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You could leave a note saying go to the old mill (or whatever) at 9 pm if you're looking to resolve this with violence(away from innocent bystanders). If you want to talk it out meet me at the tavern at 10 pm.
Also, note that I can't heal you if I'm dead.
Then go to the tavern and wait to see who shows up first him or the local law enforcement that was waiting at the old mill for him to show up. You know the people that read the same note you wrote and watched you leave it with him. The note he'll probably have on him when he gets arrested. If you draw a map on the note where to meet he'll most certainly have it on him. :)
That's wickedly clever, it's almost evil.
Give him enough rope to hang himself.
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BTW, how does many-shot work out? In PFS, there are no firearms that support it (IE, no revolvers and no lever-action rifles). As in, you can't reload fast enough to make it work.Er, alchemical cartridges plus Rapid Reload makes reloading a free action for pistols, Musket Master archetype expands it for muskets.
Also, it's obviously not PFS.
Er, that's not right if you are using early fire-arms. Loading a one-handed or two-handed fire-arm is a standard action. Rapid re-load and alchemical cartridges both reduce loading time to move action, then to swift action. You get one swift action per turn, period. So: shoot, reload with a cartidge/swift, shoot, re-load with your move action (cartridge or powder) and you are done. You can't use Many Shots, because the shots are separated by a re-load. Re-loading causes an Attack of Opportunity if you close with him.
This does not hold true if the Gunslinger has a revolver; re-loading all barrels is a full round action. Rapid Reload and cartridges take that to a move action... Also the two-barrel pistol (early fire-arm), now that I think of it.
Hmm, I'd situate a couple of City Guards nearby, buy some blank cartridges and let him attack you with them. If he doesn't, tell him the blanks were a joke and certainly don't let him go into combat with them.
Generally, in buddy films, you would resolve this by both going to the pub, lowering inhibitions, venting about each other and then working together with the inevitable pub fight. Offer that to the DM too.
Get a tower shield.
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General notes:
1) Paladins can use ranged weapons.
2a) Unless using advanced firearms (or expending 1 grit for each additional range increment beyond the first one for each shot), pistols only attack vs. touch AC within the first 20 ft (and muskets within the first 40 ft).
2b) A composite longbow is a much better ranged weapon than non-advanced firearms beyond 40 ft (80 ft for muskets). They can also be purchased to add a Str bonus on damage.
So if the gunslinger wants to fight, then have the paladin issue a formal challenge, giving the gunslinger the choice of melee or ranged combat. The gunslinger will probably want ranged combat... at which point you set the challenge distance at 30 paces (90 ft). That probably imposes a -8 penalty on the gunslinger (in the fifth range increment for a pistol; -4 for a musket, in the third range increment), but no penalty for a composite longbow (within the first range increment).
Paladins don't need to be stupid.
Get a Bow and Arrow and out-range him. Guns generally have pretty s%&%ty range increments, and if you're outside of his range, then it's not that easy for him to damage you. This works even better if you took the mount option for Divine Bond, instead of the weapon option.
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For that matter a sling has 10 range increments at 50ft and adds your Strength bonus to the damage... plus it's completely free (even the ammo is if you use stones). Assuming he's using a pistol (with 5 range increments at 20ft a pop) agree to duel him old-school: back-to-back, walk ten paces, turn and fire. Assume a 'pace' is 5ft, you'll end up with a 100ft gap between you, and be 105ft away from each other - he can't hit you and you can just sling stones at him until he gives up, grows up, or goes down! :)
What are the laws where they are?
I said nothing of a duel.
not really, if the paladin willingly wants to open himself up to a duel to the death there is no laws being broken and the guards have 0 reason to lock him up
That is very much going to vary from location to location. Lots of places had rules against dueling. In fact, dueling was illegal in more kingdoms in the renaissance than it was legal.
True story. When Edward de Vere the 17th Earl of Oxford decided he wanted to fight a duel and challenged (read: forced) a servant to a duel (where he unsurprisingly killed him), rather than let one of the Queen's favorites be forced to stand trial for murder, they ruled that the servant was so upset at being challenged that he committed suicide on the point of de Vere's sword.
Dueling was very much illegal in lots of places, whether the participants were willing or not.
You could word it more like this.
"I know nothing can stop you making an attempt on my life so to keep innocent bystanders from getting hurt I will be at the Old Mill at 9. If by some miracle you want to talk meet me at the Tavern at 10."
There problem solved.
Again I"m not saying a duel. It's "If you're going to try and murder me let's not have innocent bystanders get caught in the middle."
Yeah the first draft wasn't the best. But it was just a quick idea at that point. I would have revised it several times before I used it.
If he shoots him at the bar then he's got witnesses and the bar might have muscle there or law enforcement. If he survives he has a good case against him now.
This is why pc vs pc is generally a waste of everyone's time.
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The players are derailing the campaign. You claim to be the groups healer and you refuse to heal a player, then the snubbed player decides he is going to kill the groups healer. Alignments don't seem to matter, nor does the concept of a group that works together. You stress your alignment restrictions regarding removing his gun when he awakes, to avoid a conflict, but seem to ignore that he seems to be a known criminal and is planning on murdering your character, for not saving him from getting put into a coma. That character is Evil and so if it came to if you could Smite him and have a bit more balance.
Seriously, the only thing the two of you can gain from continuing the PVP style is ending the game or causing people to leave. Remember Lawful Good is not Lawful Stupid, this started because you refused to heal a party member, for whatever reason, refusing to heal an ally, if that was your role in the party, is not Lawful or Good, it is just rude.
Wet his powder. Surely if a spell can do it, so can mechanical methods.
Then, when he tries to kill you, and fails due to wet powder, you can get the jump on him.
Wet his powder. Surely if a spell can do it, so can mechanical methods.
Then, when he tries to kill you, and fails due to wet powder, you can get the jump on him.
This might work if he was just a typical murderhobo, but this won't fly with a Paladin. He might as well be using neurotoxin arrows that poison his Dexterity and drug him with some similarly-damaging substances if he wants to try and "get the jump on him." Paladins act with honor, and there is no honor in this course of action because it's basically playing dirty.
Like I've said above, confiscating his dangerous belongings and leaving them in the authorities' hands until such time that he finds him able and responsible enough to use them properly is probably his safest course of action. A gunslinger that's unarmed isn't much of a threat to...well...anyone, really. But if he wants to retrain his levels into Monk, then I'd get a little scared...
Others have given solid suggestions as well (even if it resorts to combat; the Tower Shield suggestion is actually genius if the Gunslinger closes enough distance, though it's misguided since it requires a Standard Action each round to maintain it).
You could word it more like this.
"I know nothing can stop you making an attempt on my life so to keep innocent bystanders from getting hurt I will be at the Old Mill at 9. If by some miracle you want to talk meet me at the Tavern at 10."
There problem solved.
If the Gunslinger decides to kill the guards stationed at the old mill after having been deceived and labeled a potential criminal, he would probably then gun for the Paladin at the tavern by 10, stopping anyone in his path, then the Paladin just basically put innocent lives of guards and tavern regulars to death and made the Gunslinger an outlaw to the town without actually solving the discrepancy between the two. This also assumes that the Gunslinger isn't wise enough to know that the Old Mill and Tavern being set up at different times isn't just some ruse on the Paladin's behalf because he knows that, in a direct confrontation, the Gunslinger would most likely come out on top.
While the idea itself might seem ingenious, I don't think a Paladin would be willing to risk the lives of others, and this sort of concept is also basically lying, since you never had any intention of being at the Old Mill by 9, and just leading him into a trap that may or may not end up badly for the others involved. An Inquisitor, Cleric, or other similar divine character may do this, but a Paladin may not want to risk the lives of other people for an issue of his own party.
Coup de grace him while he is in a coma. It's an act of self defense if you're sure combat is inevitable, and as they say in real life "It's better to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission". So do it, and then atone*. Being the equivalent of an NPC warrior class trumps being dead.
*Yes I realize this might take a while since the GM isn't likely to just let you fix this with an atonement spell, but you're doing it for the greater good. The world needs paladins more than it needs law breaking gunslingers. :)
You could word it more like this.
"I know nothing can stop you making an attempt on my life so to keep innocent bystanders from getting hurt I will be at the Old Mill at 9. If by some miracle you want to talk meet me at the Tavern at 10."
There problem solved.
If the Gunslinger decides to kill the guards stationed at the old mill after having been deceived and labeled a potential criminal, he would probably then gun for the Paladin at the tavern by 10, stopping anyone in his path, then the Paladin just basically put innocent lives of guards and tavern regulars to death and made the Gunslinger an outlaw to the town without actually solving the discrepancy between the two. This also assumes that the Gunslinger isn't wise enough to know that the Old Mill and Tavern being set up at different times isn't just some ruse on the Paladin's behalf because he knows that, in a direct confrontation, the Gunslinger would most likely come out on top.
While the idea itself might seem ingenious, I don't think a Paladin would be willing to risk the lives of others, and this sort of concept is also basically lying, since you never had any intention of being at the Old Mill by 9, and just leading him into a trap that may or may not end up badly for the others involved. An Inquisitor, Cleric, or other similar divine character may do this, but a Paladin may not want to risk the lives of other people for an issue of his own party.
Guards, local law enforcement are essentially doing their job and they risk their lives doing that job. If he kills them he's evil. (If he can kill them all.) Then he can be smited.
Be at the Old Mill then with your tower shield have the guards etc hide out until he incriminates himself.
Alternatively isn't there spells that can corroborate the paladin's story that this guy broke the law? Commune, discern lies etc.
At least enough to get a trial.
I'm sure a paladin of Abadar can convince the local authorities that this guy should at least be put under surveillance.
There's always the Vindictive Bastard Archetype Paladin.
Again pc vs pc stuff is a waste of time especially when Paladins are involved.
do we even know what law was broken by the gunslinger or is every one just taking a dump on them just because a paladin said they broke a law....
This is actually a very important detail.