Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Adventurer's Armory 2: Dream come true, or balance nightmare?


Pathfinder Player Companion

101 to 150 of 151 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Davor Firetusk wrote:

I just tried to grab some hit point totals at random from PFSRD for CR 3 monsters:

Ettercap 30
Mobat 34
Unicorn 34
Giant Spider 37
Dire Apre 30
Bunyip 32
Fire Mephit 19

...

Everyone of those can be 1 shot without a crit using the butcher's axe.

What are you talking about? The butchering axe averages 10-11 base damage on a hit. Even with 19 Strength and Power Attack, you're not likely to take out any of those in one hit at first level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Set wrote:
More use of d12s should be a setting mandate. :)

I am 100% pro-d12. (And anti-d4.)

In fact, the butchering axe now gives Small characters access to a d12 weapon. The Strength requirement is tough for most of them, but a 13 base Str is enough to get a barbarian within range. ^_^


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
What are you talking about? The butchering axe averages 10-11 base damage on a hit. Even with 19 Strength and Power Attack, you're not likely to take out any of those in one hit at first level.

I think it was in the context of "a raging barbarian with 24 strength" which is a pretty extreme example, and doesn't really mention that the character in question is getting 18 damage from their STR on top of the 3-18 damage from the weapon.

But that's a pretty extreme example, I haven't seen a lot of level 1 characters with 20s in any attributes. I see a lot more "19 and put the point at level 4 there".

Grand Lodge

He was assuming 18 base with enlarge and rage


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alright, let's make those assumptions.

11 base average damage
09 Strength (23)
03 Power Attack
==
23 average damage.

It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.


Isabelle Lee wrote:
I am 100% pro-d12. (And anti-d4.)

LOL Me, I love my d4's!!! I was playing a game where I had a spell that added a d4 to weapon damage and if you rolled a 4 you rolled again. I almost always rolled multiple times and once had added 25 to the roll!!

Now if I could only turn those d12/2d6 rolls into 3d4 rolls and I'd be super happy. ;)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I just don't like how they roll. I used to have prism d4s, but I don't know where they are.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

They make great caltrops ^w^


Rysky wrote:
They make great caltrops ^w^

Yeah, I know that from experience... Not as bad as falling on some figures with pointy swords up in the air but still painful.


That's why I don't have metal pointy dice. shudders

Personally, I find d8's to be the most satisfying to roll. Next to the good old d20.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

D6s are nice once you have three or more. ^_^


Fireballs are FUN!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

Alright, let's make those assumptions.

11 base average damage
09 Strength (23)
03 Power Attack
==
23 average damage.

It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.

The Strength damage is 10, since it's 24 Strength, not 23. Otherwise, it certainly trivializes the encounter, since that's 80% of their HP on a regular hit.

Of course, you could substitute the axe with any other two-handed weapon and the results would be practically identical, so it's obviously not a weapon issue.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Speak for yourself, buddy. When you're critting with a near 25% threat rate, come back to me and tell me about trivialising encounters!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So much fun!


Now I want a Butcher's Scythe (exotic, of course): 3d4, x4, but -2 penalty to hit without 19 Str.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Now I want a Butcher's Scythe (exotic, of course): 3d4, x4, but -2 penalty to hit without 19 Str.

If I buy it now, do I get a second one free if I pay separate shipping and handling?


What exactly is a butcher scything anyway? Particularly aggressive wheat?

"A big ol' axe" is at least something you could use to cut a cow into quarters, I guess.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

What exactly is a butcher scything anyway? Particularly aggressive wheat?

"A big ol' axe" is at least something you could use to cut a cow into quarters, I guess.

What is a cow by prepossessed wheat?


miscdebris wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

What exactly is a butcher scything anyway? Particularly aggressive wheat?

"A big ol' axe" is at least something you could use to cut a cow into quarters, I guess.

What is a cow by prepossessed wheat?

I CALL IT DINNER, PERSONALLY.


Did not know its existence either...

Sounds interesting enough though, and i'm always one for more options and then cutting stuff out DM level if its annoying bloat wise.

I do wonder though..
Any cool crossbow/blowgun like stuff?
Any alchemical items, or mundane useful equipment like things?
Poisons?

Not sure on which definition they're using armory (i.e. weapons and armour only. Or weapons armory tools)


Ravingdork wrote:
Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!

Very cool, and very useful. But... shouldn't the "masterwork" quality be added too?

(Gotta love people who get something nice, and immediately ask for more, right? Seriously: thanks for the effort!)

((Oh, and what about with or without the armored kilt?))

(((Just kidding, just kidding!)))


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Tragically for the orcs of Redlake fort in my Giantslayer campaign, the merchants delivering their order of butcher axes and hornbows arrived just a week too late to save them from defeat in last Sunday's game.


Dream come true!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

NEW TOOL

Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!

Finding the right suit of armor for your character has never been easier! :D

If I have a character that only has light armor proficiency, I can now get Armor Export trait, Nimble, Mithral Full Plate (or stoneplate) armor [+8], with NO ACP.

That is heavy armor without attack or skill penalty for non-proficiency.

I also get +2 max dex from Mithral, on top of the rest for a total +5 max dex.

/cevah

Dark Archive

Personally, I'm waiting for them to put out 'Pathfinder Player Companion: Some actual rules for Improvised Weapons to make an improvised weapons build viable including how weapon enchants work with improvised weapons'

And of course, 'Pathfinder Player Companion: One game-breakingly good feat in 32 pages of dross'


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TiwazBlackhand wrote:
And of course, 'Pathfinder Player Companion: One game-breakingly good feat in 32 pages of dross'

I mean...


Cevah wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

NEW TOOL

Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!

Finding the right suit of armor for your character has never been easier! :D

If I have a character that only has light armor proficiency, I can now get Armor Export trait, Nimble, Mithral Full Plate (or stoneplate) armor [+8], with NO ACP.

That is heavy armor without attack or skill penalty for non-proficiency.

I also get +2 max dex from Mithral, on top of the rest for a total +5 max dex.

/jeff

For extra silliness, mix in travel cleric or flame oracle or flame shaman or barbarian (mithral only) or UMD and a wand of longstrider to remove the speed penalty.


VRMH wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!

Very cool, and very useful. But... shouldn't the "masterwork" quality be added too?

(Gotta love people who get something nice, and immediately ask for more, right? Seriously: thanks for the effort!)

((Oh, and what about with or without the armored kilt?))

(((Just kidding, just kidding!)))

Don't forget special materials!

J/K


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Alright, let's make those assumptions.

11 base average damage
10 09 Strength (23) Corrected
03 Power Attack
==
24 23 average damage.

It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.

About one third of the time, that damage is going to be one standard deviation above so 27 damage. About 5% of the time you will be two standard deviations out, which one-shots the monsters.

Even if we assume average damage, it means that the creature is quite likely to go down to the second hit from anyone. The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
miscdebris wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!

Very cool, and very useful. But... shouldn't the "masterwork" quality be added too?

(Gotta love people who get something nice, and immediately ask for more, right? Seriously: thanks for the effort!)

((Oh, and what about with or without the armored kilt?))

(((Just kidding, just kidding!)))

Don't forget special materials!

J/K

Haha, I actually considered it...briefly.

BretI wrote:

The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.

Competent GMs know not to have just one monster on the field, better ensuring that everyone gets to have a turn.


From what I've seen, the weapon modifications seem like a bit of a GM's nightmare.

Besides all the questions regarding proficiency, there's a simple question of money.

Let's look at a fighter's backup weapon. He gets training in his main weapon at ~5th, and upgrades at ~9th. Somewhere in there, he probably picks up a pair of gloves of dueling. Now get a "versatile design (main weapon's group)" backup weapon (cestus, dagger, or morningstar.) How do you price a mundane enhancement that gives your backup weapon anywhere from +1 to +4 attack and damage over the course of a few levels? The current equivalent is just making it magical, but the weapon modifications aren't going to scale up in price like that (costing anywhere from 2300gp to 32300gp.) This bonus stacks with normal magic, too, if you wanted to throw another couple thousand gold at it.

I think it's flavorful, useful, a great idea... and almost certain to be banned as being more trouble than it's worth.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The way I see it, shaventalz, martials need nice things. Hopefully Paizo will see it the same way and leave it alone (aside from clarifying a few things). After all, a couple of points of accuracy and damage are hardly going to make much difference, especially when you consider it is for a rarely used backup weapon.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
BretI wrote:

The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.

Competent GMs know not to have just one monster on the field, better ensuring that everyone gets to have a turn.

PFS doesn't allow a GM to add opponents to an encounter.

---

The armor modifications seem interesting, especially on either side of the light/medium armor proficiency. It will be interesting to see what (if any) of this is accepted by PFS.


Ravingdork wrote:
The way I see it, shaventalz, martials need nice things. Hopefully Paizo will see it the same way and leave it alone (aside from clarifying a few things). After all, a couple of points of accuracy and damage are hardly going to make much difference, especially when you consider it is for a rarely used backup weapon.

I totally agree - but not everyone does. And by comparison to the existing option (enhancement bonuses,) it comes out as "obviously overpowered for its cost." It's a flawed comparison, but an easy comparison.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You're talking about a very narrow corner case with a class that few people bother playing anymore. If anything, I think it just might breathe new life into the class. After all, who should get the most benefit out of customized weapons and gear if not the iconic fighter?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Yeah I'm not seeing the issue.

A Barbarian can Rage no matter what weapon they're wielding, whereas a Fighter can now apply their Weapon Training to any weapon with some gold and possibly a Feat.

That and comparing it to Enhancement Bonuses is... odd? Since you can get Enhancement Bonuses on top of Weapon Training.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
...martials need nice things.

You're wandering into dangerous territory, citizen. That kind of talk is treasonous.


Rysky wrote:
A Barbarian can Rage no matter what weapon they're wielding, whereas a Fighter can now apply their Weapon Training to any weapon with some gold and possibly a Feat.

Yes, but this is a new ability for Fighters. Power creep on a martial!

Power creep that really should have been a thing before now, but some people get touchy about that.

Rysky wrote:
That and comparing it to Enhancement Bonuses is... odd? Since you can get Enhancement Bonuses on top of Weapon Training.

I just used enhancement bonuses as the most similar thing in the game so far. Pay X, get +1 attack and damage for one weapon.

To me, it seems like the most obvious comparison for someone to use, even if it's not 100% identical.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
shaventalz wrote:
Rysky wrote:
That and comparing it to Enhancement Bonuses is... odd? Since you can get Enhancement Bonuses on top of Weapon Training.

I just used enhancement bonuses as the most similar thing in the game so far. Pay X, get +1 attack and damage for one weapon.

To me, it seems like the most obvious comparison for someone to use, even if it's not 100% identical.

It's a false comparison. You should be comparing his primary weapon (which has that bonus) with the modified alternate one. Before, the alternate was weaker, now it's the same as his primary. Total power isn't increased, only versatility.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

That's... not power creep though.

Fighter's Weapon Training is a core ability of the Fighter. Magical weapons are a core part of the game. Fighters using magical weapons have always been part of the game.

The new Modification allows Fighters some freedom in how they equip, but it doesn't increase anything. It doesn't make them do more damage, they had Weapon Training long before this, they had magical weapons even longer before that.

All this option does is give them some versality, it's not a power boost or creep of any kind.

Edit: slightly ninjaed by Necromental.


I'm not saying they'll get more powerful in the normal case. For that, they'll keep using what they're already using.

I'm saying they'll get more powerful than they are currently in situations where they can't use their usual weapon (disarmed, grappled, underwater, DR...) In those cases, the current Fighter essentially takes a -4 penalty to use their backup weapon. To counteract that for his backup weapon, his options were to take it as a secondary training, pick up weapon focus and the like, or make it magical. With this, he no longer takes that penalty (or the penalty is heavily reduced) AND it often stacks with the old options, allowing him to be more useful in a wider variety of situations.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong about this. I think the Fighters need all the help they can get, and maybe I'm the only one that sees the magic weapon comparison as obvious (and flawed.) However, I can't help but feel like this book will prompt a number of threads with titles like "my player paid <X> and now I can't <Y> him! Is that legal?" (where Y is disarm/grapple/drown/whatever.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now compare that to a fighter whose backup weapon is the same as his primary weapon.


Power creep is viewed as two different meanings.

1) the highest level is raised. This is what is used to say everything is okay as long as wizards aren't any better.

2) any overall power is raised. This means that versatility is increases is power creep. A fighter could only use 1 weapon and now is using 2, two more than one so it's more power in the fighter.

So it's not creep in 1 because the highest numbers you can reach is the same, but it's creep via 2 because the fighter is able to do more things than he could before.


Haven't fighters conventionally, as a backup weapon used:

1) A different version of the same kind of weapon (maybe made of a different special material).
2) A different weapon in the same group with a different profile that makes it more useful in certain situations.
3) A ranged option if melee or a melee option if ranged.

So I'm not totally sure how this helps. I guess if thematically you want something wholly unlike your primary weapon to serve as your backup


PossibleCabbage wrote:

Haven't fighters conventionally, as a backup weapon used:

1) A different version of the same kind of weapon (maybe made of a different special material).
2) A different weapon in the same group with a different profile that makes it more useful in certain situations.
3) A ranged option if melee or a melee option if ranged.

So I'm not totally sure how this helps. I guess if thematically you want something wholly unlike your primary weapon to serve as your backup

That depends on what your primary weapon is, and what kind of situation you find yourself in.

Grappled? Then I hope you don't specialize in a polearm; they're all two-handed.

Fighting something that deals damage if struck with a non-reach weapon? Several groups are out of luck, unless you want to start throwing weapons. A backup reach melee weapon will probably serve you better than pulling our your longbow.

Need bludgeoning or slashing, but specialized in spears? Well, they're almost all piercing, exotic, or both. Probably not the best example anymore, as planson and sibat exist.

Hammers can't do slashing damage normally. What's a dwarf to do? Answer: grab an ancestral axe.


Let us then be thankful Monk Spades and Morningstars exist.

A fighter having more versatility is only for the better, in my opinion. They are, by all measures, in need of such benefits. A historically weak class being disallowed from having cool things is simply perpetuating the problems that have existed for a very very long time. For power creep to have existed, there needed to have been power to begin with. What you have wrongly identified as such is what we in the business call

A BUFF

And this should be cause for celebration, not fear. Because damnit, I was beginning to have concerns when they started stripping away important gear for martials. Like Quick-Runner Shirts.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
shaventalz wrote:
Need bludgeoning or slashing, but specialized in spears? Well, they're almost all piercing, exotic, or both.

Weighted spear: B and simple. You already mentioned sibat:S and martial.

shaventalz wrote:
Hammers can't do slashing damage normally. What's a dwarf to do? Answer: grab an ancestral axe.

You can always pick up the feat weapon versatility. If only the average fighter had an extra feat to spare... Ever since this feat came out, needing a different weapon for DR for s/b/p went out the window.


Not that the damage type of your weapon has mattered all that much since, like... 2nd edition.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
BPorter wrote:


Sadly, to say both reek of cheese is not a big reach. More than any other recent Companion book, this one is going to get a thorough review and I suspect will have frequent applications of the Ban Hammer.

Got my PDF today. Ban Hammer has been put away. I need to read this more closely, but overall, I like what's in here a lot. The armor & armor mods are good overall, even if I think the Spidersilk bodysuit is a bit much. Weapon mods will require a more thorough read-through and while I'm sure a min-maxer can find a broken combo, that's kind of par for the course in any case.

Overall, it looks like a great addition to the Companion line.

101 to 150 of 151 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Player Companion / Adventurer's Armory 2: Dream come true, or balance nightmare? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.