I just tried to grab some hit point totals at random from PFSRD for CR 3 monsters:
Ettercap 30
Mobat 34
Unicorn 34
Giant Spider 37
Dire Apre 30
Bunyip 32
Fire Mephit 19...
Everyone of those can be 1 shot without a crit using the butcher's axe.
What are you talking about? The butchering axe averages 10-11 base damage on a hit. Even with 19 Strength and Power Attack, you're not likely to take out any of those in one hit at first level.
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More use of d12s should be a setting mandate. :)
I am 100% pro-d12. (And anti-d4.)
In fact, the butchering axe now gives Small characters access to a d12 weapon. The Strength requirement is tough for most of them, but a 13 base Str is enough to get a barbarian within range. ^_^
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What are you talking about? The butchering axe averages 10-11 base damage on a hit. Even with 19 Strength and Power Attack, you're not likely to take out any of those in one hit at first level.
I think it was in the context of "a raging barbarian with 24 strength" which is a pretty extreme example, and doesn't really mention that the character in question is getting 18 damage from their STR on top of the 3-18 damage from the weapon.
But that's a pretty extreme example, I haven't seen a lot of level 1 characters with 20s in any attributes. I see a lot more "19 and put the point at level 4 there".
Alright, let's make those assumptions.
11 base average damage
09 Strength (23)
03 Power Attack
==
23 average damage.
It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.
I am 100% pro-d12. (And anti-d4.)
LOL Me, I love my d4's!!! I was playing a game where I had a spell that added a d4 to weapon damage and if you rolled a 4 you rolled again. I almost always rolled multiple times and once had added 25 to the roll!!
Now if I could only turn those d12/2d6 rolls into 3d4 rolls and I'd be super happy. ;)
They make great caltrops ^w^
Yeah, I know that from experience... Not as bad as falling on some figures with pointy swords up in the air but still painful.
That's why I don't have metal pointy dice. shudders
Personally, I find d8's to be the most satisfying to roll. Next to the good old d20.
Fireballs are FUN!
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Alright, let's make those assumptions.
11 base average damage
09 Strength (23)
03 Power Attack
==
23 average damage.It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.
The Strength damage is 10, since it's 24 Strength, not 23. Otherwise, it certainly trivializes the encounter, since that's 80% of their HP on a regular hit.
Of course, you could substitute the axe with any other two-handed weapon and the results would be practically identical, so it's obviously not a weapon issue.
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Speak for yourself, buddy. When you're critting with a near 25% threat rate, come back to me and tell me about trivialising encounters!
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So much fun!
Now I want a Butcher's Scythe (exotic, of course): 3d4, x4, but -2 penalty to hit without 19 Str.
Now I want a Butcher's Scythe (exotic, of course): 3d4, x4, but -2 penalty to hit without 19 Str.
If I buy it now, do I get a second one free if I pay separate shipping and handling?
What exactly is a butcher scything anyway? Particularly aggressive wheat?
"A big ol' axe" is at least something you could use to cut a cow into quarters, I guess.
What is a cow by prepossessed wheat?What exactly is a butcher scything anyway? Particularly aggressive wheat?
"A big ol' axe" is at least something you could use to cut a cow into quarters, I guess.
I CALL IT DINNER, PERSONALLY.
Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!
Very cool, and very useful. But... shouldn't the "masterwork" quality be added too?
(Gotta love people who get something nice, and immediately ask for more, right? Seriously: thanks for the effort!)
((Oh, and what about with or without the armored kilt?))
(((Just kidding, just kidding!)))
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Tragically for the orcs of Redlake fort in my Giantslayer campaign, the merchants delivering their order of butcher axes and hornbows arrived just a week too late to save them from defeat in last Sunday's game.
Dream come true!
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Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!
Finding the right suit of armor for your character has never been easier! :D
If I have a character that only has light armor proficiency, I can now get Armor Export trait, Nimble, Mithral Full Plate (or stoneplate) armor [+8], with NO ACP.
That is heavy armor without attack or skill penalty for non-proficiency.I also get +2 max dex from Mithral, on top of the rest for a total +5 max dex.
/cevah
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And of course, 'Pathfinder Player Companion: One game-breakingly good feat in 32 pages of dross'
Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!
Finding the right suit of armor for your character has never been easier! :D
If I have a character that only has light armor proficiency, I can now get Armor Export trait, Nimble, Mithral Full Plate (or stoneplate) armor [+8], with NO ACP.
That is heavy armor without attack or skill penalty for non-proficiency.I also get +2 max dex from Mithral, on top of the rest for a total +5 max dex.
/jeff
For extra silliness, mix in travel cleric or flame oracle or flame shaman or barbarian (mithral only) or UMD and a wand of longstrider to remove the speed penalty.
Alright, let's make those assumptions.
11 base average damage
1009Strength (23)
03 Power Attack
==
2423average damage.It still takes two hits to kill almost everything on that list, unless you get lucky.
About one third of the time, that damage is going to be one standard deviation above so 27 damage. About 5% of the time you will be two standard deviations out, which one-shots the monsters.
Even if we assume average damage, it means that the creature is quite likely to go down to the second hit from anyone. The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.
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Introducing the new Armor Modifications Comparison Table!Very cool, and very useful. But... shouldn't the "masterwork" quality be added too?
(Gotta love people who get something nice, and immediately ask for more, right? Seriously: thanks for the effort!)
((Oh, and what about with or without the armored kilt?))
(((Just kidding, just kidding!)))
Don't forget special materials!
J/K
Haha, I actually considered it...briefly.
The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.
Competent GMs know not to have just one monster on the field, better ensuring that everyone gets to have a turn.
The way I see it, shaventalz, martials need nice things. Hopefully Paizo will see it the same way and leave it alone (aside from clarifying a few things). After all, a couple of points of accuracy and damage are hardly going to make much difference, especially when you consider it is for a rarely used backup weapon.
Competent GMs know not to have just one monster on the field, better ensuring that everyone gets to have a turn.The person at the bottom of the initiative is unlikely to get an opportunity to act.
PFS doesn't allow a GM to add opponents to an encounter.
---
The armor modifications seem interesting, especially on either side of the light/medium armor proficiency. It will be interesting to see what (if any) of this is accepted by PFS.
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You're talking about a very narrow corner case with a class that few people bother playing anymore. If anything, I think it just might breathe new life into the class. After all, who should get the most benefit out of customized weapons and gear if not the iconic fighter?
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Yeah I'm not seeing the issue.
A Barbarian can Rage no matter what weapon they're wielding, whereas a Fighter can now apply their Weapon Training to any weapon with some gold and possibly a Feat.
That and comparing it to Enhancement Bonuses is... odd? Since you can get Enhancement Bonuses on top of Weapon Training.
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...martials need nice things.
You're wandering into dangerous territory, citizen. That kind of talk is treasonous.
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That and comparing it to Enhancement Bonuses is... odd? Since you can get Enhancement Bonuses on top of Weapon Training.I just used enhancement bonuses as the most similar thing in the game so far. Pay X, get +1 attack and damage for one weapon.
To me, it seems like the most obvious comparison for someone to use, even if it's not 100% identical.
It's a false comparison. You should be comparing his primary weapon (which has that bonus) with the modified alternate one. Before, the alternate was weaker, now it's the same as his primary. Total power isn't increased, only versatility.
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That's... not power creep though.
Fighter's Weapon Training is a core ability of the Fighter. Magical weapons are a core part of the game. Fighters using magical weapons have always been part of the game.
The new Modification allows Fighters some freedom in how they equip, but it doesn't increase anything. It doesn't make them do more damage, they had Weapon Training long before this, they had magical weapons even longer before that.
All this option does is give them some versality, it's not a power boost or creep of any kind.
Edit: slightly ninjaed by Necromental.
Now compare that to a fighter whose backup weapon is the same as his primary weapon.
Power creep is viewed as two different meanings.
1) the highest level is raised. This is what is used to say everything is okay as long as wizards aren't any better.
2) any overall power is raised. This means that versatility is increases is power creep. A fighter could only use 1 weapon and now is using 2, two more than one so it's more power in the fighter.
So it's not creep in 1 because the highest numbers you can reach is the same, but it's creep via 2 because the fighter is able to do more things than he could before.
Haven't fighters conventionally, as a backup weapon used:
1) A different version of the same kind of weapon (maybe made of a different special material).
2) A different weapon in the same group with a different profile that makes it more useful in certain situations.
3) A ranged option if melee or a melee option if ranged.
So I'm not totally sure how this helps. I guess if thematically you want something wholly unlike your primary weapon to serve as your backup
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Let us then be thankful Monk Spades and Morningstars exist.
A fighter having more versatility is only for the better, in my opinion. They are, by all measures, in need of such benefits. A historically weak class being disallowed from having cool things is simply perpetuating the problems that have existed for a very very long time. For power creep to have existed, there needed to have been power to begin with. What you have wrongly identified as such is what we in the business call
And this should be cause for celebration, not fear. Because damnit, I was beginning to have concerns when they started stripping away important gear for martials. Like Quick-Runner Shirts.
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Need bludgeoning or slashing, but specialized in spears? Well, they're almost all piercing, exotic, or both.
Weighted spear: B and simple. You already mentioned sibat:S and martial.
Hammers can't do slashing damage normally. What's a dwarf to do? Answer: grab an ancestral axe.
You can always pick up the feat weapon versatility. If only the average fighter had an extra feat to spare... Ever since this feat came out, needing a different weapon for DR for s/b/p went out the window.
Not that the damage type of your weapon has mattered all that much since, like... 2nd edition.
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Sadly, to say both reek of cheese is not a big reach. More than any other recent Companion book, this one is going to get a thorough review and I suspect will have frequent applications of the Ban Hammer.
Got my PDF today. Ban Hammer has been put away. I need to read this more closely, but overall, I like what's in here a lot. The armor & armor mods are good overall, even if I think the Spidersilk bodysuit is a bit much. Weapon mods will require a more thorough read-through and while I'm sure a min-maxer can find a broken combo, that's kind of par for the course in any case.
Overall, it looks like a great addition to the Companion line.