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Turn 1: Move, provoke, parry, riposte on successful parry.
Between Turn 1 and Turn 2: Immediate action for Charmed Life.
All of course assuming you even need to bother with Charmed Life. When the combination is used to move up to a spell caster and you also have Step Up and/or something that extends reach, e.g. Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair, Longarm Bracers, Longarm spell, you force a defensive cast, which is not always easy. Sure, there will be times that it doesn't help, but your saves and abilities are still as good or better than a fighter of the same level. The one level swashbuckler splash is still rather powerful.
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So, no word on whether an Investigator's ability to "cast spells like an Alchemist" means that they can use wands? I'm guessing that that will require an FAQ thread. :(
HERE is a good comment reasoning in favor of Investigators being able to use wands just like an Alchemist.
The missing language from the Investigator writeup isn't a limiting factor, it was simply redundant.
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Bolt ace got fixed, though their attack touch AC deed can't be used with signature deed.
I was really hoping that the Bolt Ace would be allowed to benefit from Deadly Aim, like Gunslingers can, but since that language wasn't included in the errata it makes me wonder if the intention is that they can't.
Mark, should I bother making an FAQ request? Or is there a reason this wasn't included in the errata?
Bolt ace got fixed, though their attack touch AC deed can't be used with signature deed.I was really hoping that the Bolt Ace would be allowed to benefit from Deadly Aim, like Gunslingers can, but since that language wasn't included in the errata it makes me wonder if the intention is that they can't.
Mark, should I bother making an FAQ request? Or is there a reason this wasn't included in the errata?
I'd wondered about that too. I'll be curious to hear any reply about it.
Contributor
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Bolt ace got fixed, though their attack touch AC deed can't be used with signature deed.I was really hoping that the Bolt Ace would be allowed to benefit from Deadly Aim, like Gunslingers can, but since that language wasn't included in the errata it makes me wonder if the intention is that they can't.
Mark, should I bother making an FAQ request? Or is there a reason this wasn't included in the errata?
I'd guess it slipped their minds. I'll FAQ it if you start the thread, though.
we already got clarification, it's a light slashing weapon or a one-handed slashing weapon. It was clarified for the swashbuckler when it says "a light or one-handed piercing weapon"Starknives are light piercing weapons. So when Slashing Grace says "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon..." that means that I can pick a one-handed slashing weapon or any light weapon regardless of the damage type? I can pick shortsword even though it is piercing or light mace which is bludgeoning? I'm hoping this is true, but that sentence, together with the name of the feat, really does suggest that the only valid light weapon choices are those that deal slashing damage. Could we get some clarification on this issue?I took a look. The iconic medium is not adding it on thrown damage, since it isn't being used as a melee weapon then. That seems right to me.Here's a new question for you then, Mr. Seifter!
I was reading the changes to Slashing Grace, and was pleased that it now applies to my daggers. The way that the post-errata Slashing Grace is worded, it makes no distinguishment between ranged attacks and melee attacks with the selected weapon.
So if I'm a flying blade and I pick dagger, would Slashing Grace allow me to add my Dexterity modifier to my dagger's damage when I throw it?
(I figured you might know considering that the Iconic Medium uses a starknife and apparently has Slashing Grace.)
Was that clarification in a FAQ? I checked the ACG FAQ page, but I didn't see it.
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In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “one-handed”.
Benefit: Choose one kind ofone-handedslashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weaponone-handed, you can treat it as aone-handedpiercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
So, Dex-to-damage with Greatswords?
In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “one-handed”.Benefit: Choose one kind ofSo, Dex-to-damage with Greatswords?one-handedslashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weaponone-handed, you can treat it as aone-handedpiercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
Working as intended!
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Working as intended!In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “one-handed”.Benefit: Choose one kind ofSo, Dex-to-damage with Greatswords?one-handedslashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weaponone-handed, you can treat it as aone-handedpiercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
I think this means NOTHING in the other hand, including having it on a weapon:
Page 156—(...)In the Slashing Grace feat’s benefit, in thefirst sentence, after “kind of ” add “light or”. After the
final sentence, add “You do not gain this benefit while
fighting with two weapons or using f lurry of blows, or
any time another hand is otherwise occupied.” (...)
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In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “one-handed”.Benefit: Choose one kind ofSo, Dex-to-damage with Greatswords?one-handedslashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weaponone-handed, you can treat it as aone-handedpiercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
That's the errata for the table that lists the summary for each feat. Seriously, people, look up the actual pages the errata modifies.
In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “one-handed”.
Where is this from?
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Eek, but wait, that means a Swashbuckler with Slashing Grace can't use the Swordmaster's Flair?
"So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand".
Super sad face =(.
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Eek, but wait, that means a Swashbuckler with Slashing Grace can't use the Swordmaster's Flair?
"So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand".
Super sad face =(.
Not to worry, it's now a swashbuckler item that you'll only see Non-swashbucklers use! Seems par for the course with the other deep, deep cuts in the errata.
Not to worry, it's now a swashbuckler item that you'll only see Non-swashbucklers use! Seems par for the course with the other deep, deep cuts in the errata.Eek, but wait, that means a Swashbuckler with Slashing Grace can't use the Swordmaster's Flair?
"So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand".
Super sad face =(.
or at least strength based swashbucklers :P
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Not to worry, it's now a swashbuckler item that you'll only see Non-swashbucklers use! Seems par for the course with the other deep, deep cuts in the errata.Eek, but wait, that means a Swashbuckler with Slashing Grace can't use the Swordmaster's Flair?
"So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand".
Super sad face =(.
You just have to grasp it to activate. Not Wield
For blue scarf, tie it around your neck. Free action, grasp it. Standard action, activate it, free action, release it. Continue turn. For the next minute you gain reach and your hand is unoccupied.
For glove, Free action, clench fist, swift action, activate, free action, unclench, continue turn with hand unoccupied.
For sash, it is a bit of a hassel, because if you want to use it, you have to end your turn with your hand clenched around your sash, which means it is occupied if you want to make AoO
@The Green Tea Gamer: you'd make a very successful political cartoonist. Probably republican.
Well that's just kind of you to say, although I'm a total independent. I think I've only voted Republican about 25% of the time. Usually I'm a vote wasting third party kind of guy.
Seriously, it just seemed ridiculous to me how developers will compromise left and right and people still complain and want them to bend over to their demands. If I was a dev I'd errata all of them weaker out of spite.
...probably a good thing I'm not!
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@The Green Tea Gamer: you'd make a very successful political cartoonist. Probably republican.Well that's just kind of you to say, although I'm a total independent. I think I've only voted Republican about 25% of the time. Usually I'm a vote wasting third party kind of guy.
Seriously, it just seemed ridiculous to me how developers will compromise left and right and people still complain and want them to bend over to their demands. If I was a dev I'd errata all of them weaker out of spite.
...probably a good thing I'm not!
Reading this thread, I think some people (not me, for the record) think that is what happened.
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These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.
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So this means that a buckler wielder can't use Slashing Grace? That's a bit unfortunate.ok so Slashing Grace reads: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.
So why the hate for TWF fighters or swashbuckler types? Or just for someone who holds a wand in the off hand?
I think you only get slashing grace if you are using the buckler for defense. If you release it (as you would to cast spells, for example) the hand seems like it would count as unoccupied.
So free action, release, attack, free action regrab. you lose Slashing grace on your AoO though.
Not to worry, it's now a swashbuckler item that you'll only see Non-swashbucklers use! Seems par for the course with the other deep, deep cuts in the errata.Eek, but wait, that means a Swashbuckler with Slashing Grace can't use the Swordmaster's Flair?
"So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand".
Super sad face =(.
You just have to grasp it to activate. Not Wield
For blue scarf, tie it around your neck. Free action, grasp it. Standard action, activate it, free action, release it. Continue turn. For the next minute you gain reach and your hand is unoccupied.
For glove, Free action, clench fist, swift action, activate, free action, unclench, continue turn with hand unoccupied.
For sash, it is a bit of a hassel, because if you want to use it, you have to end your turn with your hand clenched around your sash, which means it is occupied if you want to make AoO
The 'Manipulate an Item' action is a Move action and that sounds like what you'd do to 'grasp' an item in your off hand.
Most likely, iconics often have things wrong with them.so the iconic is wrong then?we already got clarification, it's a light slashing weapon or a one-handed slashing weapon. It was clarified for the swashbuckler when it says "a light or one-handed piercing weapon"Starknives are light piercing weapons. So when Slashing Grace says "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon..." that means that I can pick a one-handed slashing weapon or any light weapon regardless of the damage type? I can pick shortsword even though it is piercing or light mace which is bludgeoning? I'm hoping this is true, but that sentence, together with the name of the feat, really does suggest that the only valid light weapon choices are those that deal slashing damage. Could we get some clarification on this issue?I took a look. The iconic medium is not adding it on thrown damage, since it isn't being used as a melee weapon then. That seems right to me.Here's a new question for you then, Mr. Seifter!
I was reading the changes to Slashing Grace, and was pleased that it now applies to my daggers. The way that the post-errata Slashing Grace is worded, it makes no distinguishment between ranged attacks and melee attacks with the selected weapon.
So if I'm a flying blade and I pick dagger, would Slashing Grace allow me to add my Dexterity modifier to my dagger's damage when I throw it?
(I figured you might know considering that the Iconic Medium uses a starknife and apparently has Slashing Grace.)
According to Mark Seifter the iconics use of Slashing Grace (Starknife) is not an error under the new rules.
According to Mark Seifter the iconics use of Slashing Grace (Starknife) is not an error under the new rules.Most likely, iconics often have things wrong with them.so the iconic is wrong then?we already got clarification, it's a light slashing weapon or a one-handed slashing weapon. It was clarified for the swashbuckler when it says "a light or one-handed piercing weapon"Starknives are light piercing weapons. So when Slashing Grace says "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon..." that means that I can pick a one-handed slashing weapon or any light weapon regardless of the damage type? I can pick shortsword even though it is piercing or light mace which is bludgeoning? I'm hoping this is true, but that sentence, together with the name of the feat, really does suggest that the only valid light weapon choices are those that deal slashing damage. Could we get some clarification on this issue?I took a look. The iconic medium is not adding it on thrown damage, since it isn't being used as a melee weapon then. That seems right to me.Here's a new question for you then, Mr. Seifter!
I was reading the changes to Slashing Grace, and was pleased that it now applies to my daggers. The way that the post-errata Slashing Grace is worded, it makes no distinguishment between ranged attacks and melee attacks with the selected weapon.
So if I'm a flying blade and I pick dagger, would Slashing Grace allow me to add my Dexterity modifier to my dagger's damage when I throw it?
(I figured you might know considering that the Iconic Medium uses a starknife and apparently has Slashing Grace.)
I will admit that my certainty was based upon a shared thought that starknives were slashing (the post was mostly to tease that Slashing Grace now works with light ways, hurray!). Honestly, if not for the name of "Slashing," it would seem like piercing and bludgeoning light weapons would be OK though.
I will admit that my certainty was based upon a shared thought that starknives were slashing (the post was...According to Mark Seifter the iconics use of Slashing Grace (Starknife) is not an error under the new rules.Most likely, iconics often have things wrong with them.so the iconic is wrong then?we already got clarification, it's a light slashing weapon or a one-handed slashing weapon. It was clarified for the swashbuckler when it says "a light or one-handed piercing weapon"Starknives are light piercing weapons. So when Slashing Grace says "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon..." that means that I can pick a one-handed slashing weapon or any light weapon regardless of the damage type? I can pick shortsword even though it is piercing or light mace which is bludgeoning? I'm hoping this is true, but that sentence, together with the name of the feat, really does suggest that the only valid light weapon choices are those that deal slashing damage. Could we get some clarification on this issue?I took a look. The iconic medium is not adding it on thrown damage, since it isn't being used as a melee weapon then. That seems right to me.Here's a new question for you then, Mr. Seifter!
I was reading the changes to Slashing Grace, and was pleased that it now applies to my daggers. The way that the post-errata Slashing Grace is worded, it makes no distinguishment between ranged attacks and melee attacks with the selected weapon.
So if I'm a flying blade and I pick dagger, would Slashing Grace allow me to add my Dexterity modifier to my dagger's damage when I throw it?
(I figured you might know considering that the Iconic Medium uses a starknife and apparently has Slashing Grace.)
Ah, well. Now I am sad. I was really hoping it worked with short swords or light maces. But it is nice that it will work with daggers and scorpion whips.
These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.
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These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.
I'd interpret the entire sentence taken together in context to mean you need to grasp it to activate it - you need to grasp it to spend the panache point and get the ability, but it's not necessary to continue holding it.
I'm thinking I need to get this for my Fox Shape Mouser. With a Polymorphic Pouch, I could shapeshift, take it out, then wrap a cute little bandanna around a little foxy neck. Then a cute little harmless foxy just needs to grab the bandanna with his paw to gain normal reach and wreck everything - good luck 5-foot stepping away from me when I'm in your square :)
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I approve of most stuff except:
1. Trading wonky text on Slashing Grace for wonky text.
2. Not fixing the Brawler's Flurry extra attacks.
3. Not giving Improved Unarmed Strike to the Grapple-based Strangler Brawler.
I approve wholeheartedly of the nerfs to Spirit Talker and a couple of the Hexes to bring the Shaman down a bit plus not getting Spiritual Ally.... no way near far enough though seen as they got SNA 1-10
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i'm pretty sad at the rogue nerfs though... unwarranted
(twist away and surprise maneuvers mostly)Help me understand the nerf to Surprise Maneuvers.
A) Did they just break it so that it can only be used by creatures who can take free action combat maneuver checks after making an attack??
...after all, it does say "dice rolled" now. Nobody gets to roll their sneak attack dice on a combat maneuver check. So it must apply to people who can make a check at the same time, or as a free action / triggered after an attack that could get sneak...
or
B) There is no real nerf, "dice rolled" might as well still say "number of dice", because as written "dice rolled" either means nothing new or it means nobody can use the feat at all without the GM allowing them to use it on a free action / subsequent attack for the few PCs that get Grab (hello Tetori) or whomever... (see above)
or
C) The feat just don't work now. Even Grab or whatever wouldn't help you because a strict RAW (read: PFS) GM will say that your free action Combat Maneuver check is happening after your attack that got Sneak Attack dice, so basically there's no way to actually use this.
Or am I totally missing something here?
Thanks,
-Goh
**bump bump** No takers here??
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**bump bump** No takers here??i'm pretty sad at the rogue nerfs though... unwarranted
(twist away and surprise maneuvers mostly)Help me understand the nerf to Surprise Maneuvers.
A) Did they just break it so that it can only be used by creatures who can take free action combat maneuver checks after making an attack??
...after all, it does say "dice rolled" now. Nobody gets to roll their sneak attack dice on a combat maneuver check. So it must apply to people who can make a check at the same time, or as a free action / triggered after an attack that could get sneak...
or
B) There is no real nerf, "dice rolled" might as well still say "number of dice", because as written "dice rolled" either means nothing new or it means nobody can use the feat at all without the GM allowing them to use it on a free action / subsequent attack for the few PCs that get Grab (hello Tetori) or whomever... (see above)
or
C) The feat just don't work now. Even Grab or whatever wouldn't help you because a strict RAW (read: PFS) GM will say that your free action Combat Maneuver check is happening after your attack that got Sneak Attack dice, so basically there's no way to actually use this.
Or am I totally missing something here?
Thanks,
-Goh
It looks like this is more to prevent stacking with abilities that allow you to trade sneak attack dice for some other effect (like bleed).
I heard the Arcanist got a minor nerfing ??
I heard the Arcanist got a minor nerfing ??
The Consume exploits can be used only a number of times per day equal to CHA mod.
he now needs at least a moderate cha (i would say at least 12, maybe 14 tops) to perform in top capacity instead of... 7
basically, consume (both the ability and the consume magical items discovery) are cha times/day (min 1) so you want to have at least a positive mod, so wit items you can raise it later on to have more arcane points in your reservoir to spam your stuff
As suspected still OP....
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**bump bump** No takers here??i'm pretty sad at the rogue nerfs though... unwarranted
(twist away and surprise maneuvers mostly)Help me understand the nerf to Surprise Maneuvers.
A) Did they just break it so that it can only be used by creatures who can take free action combat maneuver checks after making an attack??
...after all, it does say "dice rolled" now. Nobody gets to roll their sneak attack dice on a combat maneuver check. So it must apply to people who can make a check at the same time, or as a free action / triggered after an attack that could get sneak...
or
B) There is no real nerf, "dice rolled" might as well still say "number of dice", because as written "dice rolled" either means nothing new or it means nobody can use the feat at all without the GM allowing them to use it on a free action / subsequent attack for the few PCs that get Grab (hello Tetori) or whomever... (see above)
or
C) The feat just don't work now. Even Grab or whatever wouldn't help you because a strict RAW (read: PFS) GM will say that your free action Combat Maneuver check is happening after your attack that got Sneak Attack dice, so basically there's no way to actually use this.
Or am I totally missing something here?
Thanks,
-Goh
so basically:
a)number of sneak attack dice:
a lvl 5 rogue has 3 sneak attack dices. that is a class feature. whatever it happens, he always gets a +3 on his maneuverb)number of sneak attack dices rolled:
a lvl 5 rogue thug that gets a -1d6 to cause sickened rolls 2 dices. so he only gets +2 on a maneuver that he does along this sneak.it is mostly a nerf for things like vexing dodger and etc (you forgo the sneak and your swift for a dirty trick, so you roll no dices) and etc archetypes who forgo their sneak attack dices for exrta benefits
Well, that may be the intent, but it doesn't work as written: because nobody rolls sneak attack dice while making a combat maneuver check. At best, they get to make a combat maneuver check AFTER the attack that got sneak, if they have Grab or Trip or something.
It seems to me like this change makes either no difference at all, or makes Surprise Maneuvers not work at all (as in, nobody can fulfill the conditions of rolling Sneak dice). Maybe if someone has the obscure Rovagug feat to bullrush on a charge, or if you can get sneak attack and a high enough intelligence for C.Expertise and Surprise Maneuvers on a Rhinoceros and take Minotaur charge, or something like that. But nobody else could use this feat.
Wait, there is one exception: The Strangler Brawler gets sneak attack dice that happen which grappling to damage or pin. So they are the only PC Class / Archetype in the game that can use surprise maneuvers now??
Can't be right. Needs clarification.
-Goh
Essentially, shroudb is correct. It is worth noting that this means that it thus also doesn't provide benefits if the foe is immune to sneak attacks.
I heard the Arcanist got a minor nerfing ??he now needs at least a moderate cha (i would say at least 12, maybe 14 tops) to perform in top capacity instead of... 7
Cha 12 and Cha 7 both get to consume magic items / spells 1/day. If you want to do it 2/day, you need to come up with 5 (or more, if you want to play a race with a Cha penalty) point buy from somewhere.
I'm almost certainly going to be retiring my ratfolk brown fur transmuter from my weekly game thanks to this change.