Product description has been updated with the set list.
Originally the Human Ranger was indicated as being common. It looks like he got promoted to uncommon now. I'll update the change as well. Thanks.
Is it normal practice to have more rares than uncommons and commons?
I know the rarity refers to frequency of each individual figure, nonetheless the breakdown here is counter to my expectations.
Also, are the relative proportionate representations public knowledge? (like 5/8 common, 2/8 uncommon, 1/8 rare or similar?)
Promo / Repaints?
As an avid collector, I was curious if there are any promos/repaints that you plan to also introduce in a limited amount for this line at the time of it's release?
Promo / Repaints?
As an avid collector, I was curious if there are any promos/repaints that you plan to also introduce in a limited amount for this line at the time of it's release?
I'd think that would be pretty obviously a "no". Other than the promo black dragon we already know about. It's kind of late into the release to announce that sort of thing, no? What I mean is... with roughly three weeks before release, there's a good potential of very angry people who "didn't hear about it and got screwed". Not everyone visits here every day, and not everyone reads the weekly e-mails.
I'd think if there were going to be promotional/special repaints at release time, we'd know about it by now to cut down on complaining. As for after release we already know they're going to be releasing such things.
Promo / Repaints?
As an avid collector, I was curious if there are any promos/repaints that you plan to also introduce in a limited amount for this line at the time of it's release?
I'd think that would be pretty obviously a "no". Other than the promo black dragon we already know about. It's kind of late into the release to announce that sort of thing, no? What I mean is... with roughly three weeks before release, there's a good potential of very angry people who "didn't hear about it and got screwed". Not everyone visits here every day, and not everyone reads the weekly e-mails.
I'd think if there were going to be promotional/special repaints at release time, we'd know about it by now to cut down on complaining. As for after release we already know they're going to be releasing such things.
Actually, I'd say it is not "obviously a no" as I am basing my inquiry on what Wizards of the Coast did. To coincide with the release of their minis they also sent retailers "promo" figures. Other promo figures were provided to customers at special events such as GenCon.
These promos were never officially declared anywhere (neither their release or their existance). Some of these were simply just "promos", where-as they were a mini from the released set, however it would have a "promo" stamp on the bottom of the mini. Others were repainted minis from the released set, also with the promo stamp. (Many of these repaints would often have better paint jobs than the set mini).
As a collector, I have tried to collect all the WotC repaints. I found it very difficult to find out what was available for repaints as no official list was ever compiled. The closest thing to a concise list of promos was probably Toad & Trolls online store, "promo minis" category.
For my online Gallery that I am hosting, I want to make it easy for collectors like myself to keep track of all promos that are released and to display pictures of all repaints. Hence the nature of my inquiry based on WotC's mini release practices which have been fairly closely followed by Paizo.
Product description has been updated with the set list.
Is #16 a Halfing Rogue? It was originally declared as a Human Rogue.
Is #18 a Human Cleric? It was originally declared as a Half-Elf Cleric.
As a collector, I have tried to collect all the WotC repaints. I found it very difficult to find out what was available for repaints as no official list was ever compiled. The closest thing to a concise list of promos was probably Toad & Trolls online store, "promo minis" category.
While WotC never listed all the promos, the fan sites - maxminis, hordelings, ddmspoilers/plasticrypt - kept updated lists. They even listed the occasional overseas-only repaint.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Promo / Repaints?
As an avid collector, I was curious if there are any promos/repaints that you plan to also introduce in a limited amount for this line at the time of it's release?
There are no promotional repaints for Heroes & Monsters, but the first yet-to-be-announced Encounter Pack consists of all H&M repaints.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Product description has been updated with the set list.Is #16 a Halfing Rogue? It was originally declared as a Human Rogue.
Is #18 a Human Cleric? It was originally declared as a Half-Elf Cleric.
Sorry. You are correct on both counts. The list I gave Liz was incorrect.
We'll get it updated asap.
I know these are not out yet, but the Beginner Box Heroes are. So does anyone have any size comparisons to any of the other popular mini brands, such as D&D, Reaper, Gamesworkshop, etc?
I know these are not out yet, but the Beginner Box Heroes are. So does anyone have any size comparisons to any of the other popular mini brands, such as D&D, Reaper, Gamesworkshop, etc?
Base-wise, the diameter is exactly the same as D&D Minis (DDM). Height-wise the 4 Paizo minis are all the same height or 1mm taller than the humans in the DDM. Overall, these are 35mm high minis. One note though, is that Merisiel is as tall at the humans, but she is slightly crouched. If she were to be standing fully upright, then she would be the tallest (which is in accordance to Pathfinder elves).
I know these are not out yet, but the Beginner Box Heroes are. So does anyone have any size comparisons to any of the other popular mini brands, such as D&D, Reaper, Gamesworkshop, etc?Base-wise, the diameter is exactly the same as D&D Minis (DDM). Height-wise the 4 Paizo minis are all the same height or 1mm taller than the humans in the DDM. Overall, these are 35mm high minis. One note though, is that Merisiel is as tall at the humans, but she is slightly crouched. If she were to be standing fully upright, then she would be the tallest (which is in accordance to Pathfinder elves).
Thank you for the reply. What about mass/density wise? Do they seem to be larger than the DDM? I haven't seen any pictures side by side, but I get the impression that the Pathfinder minis would make the DDM ones seem scrawny. How do they compare size wise to the Pathfinder metal minis?
Thank you for the reply. What about mass/density wise? Do they seem to be larger than the DDM? I haven't seen any pictures side by side, but I get the impression that the Pathfinder minis would make the DDM ones seem scrawny. How do they compare size wise to the Pathfinder metal minis?
Mass-wise I'd say they are very comparable, if not identical. I have compared each class figure to its comparable DDM class figures and I really don't see any differences... however I do not feel that the DDM's are scrawny (well a few, but not in general).
The only one whose proportions seem off for reasons I can't really put my thumb on, is Merisiel. Even taking into account that Paizo elves are taller, there are areas of the figure that seem slightly out of proportion and perhaps on the scrawny side.
We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?
Hrmm... I think I feel another one of my informal polls coming on.
Keep an eye on: www.d20.ca/poll/
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As of now I have no plans of getting any(As i do dnd and not pathfinder), not to say it's not cool...it looks pretty awesome actually. However, I would totally get it if it was a standalone miniatures game with stat cards, dice and maps. Those are my favorite types of games! Thats also how i got into dnd. Sorry about talking about dnd so much but that is how i view it. (I may get 1 or 2 minis for dnd if they are awesome enough ;)Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!
We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?
You do realize that Miniatures can be used for Pathfinder as WELL as for D&D? Just because they do not say D&D on them does not mean they can't be used for such.
They are about as generic as the ones WotC made previously and stopped.
As a side note.. I am for ever grateful that the H&M set and the sets after this will NOT be a game in and of itself like the mini's for WotC were.
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so I don't have the time to read all 2000 plus posts if this has been answered sorry. I bought a case any idea how much of the set I should get/ need to buy to get a full set?
You are more or less guaranteed a full set from buying a case (barring some error in packing) That is as close to an answer you're going to get until it comes out and as a community access distribution.
edit: and buying cases always means you are more likely to get a full set than buying a pack here, a pack there, as you can know they came from the same packer.
Fixed the set list.
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so I don't have the time to read all 2000 plus posts if this has been answered sorry. I bought a case any idea how much of the set I should get/ need to buy to get a full set? Looking at the info above and doing the math with c u/c and r mix it seems a case should get the whole case no problem.
As per the product description:
Purchasers should get no to very few duplicate figures in a brick. Buyers who purchase factory-sealed cases should get a nearly complete set of figures. (As with any randomized product, collation is not guaranteed.)
Here's a bit of bad news...
I rebase Mage Knight minis on a regular basis for my D&D game and there were a few of these minis that I recognized. I don't mind this time but I hope that was just this once because this was a rush for Paizo to come soon after the Pathfinder Beginner box minis.
The Mage Knight minis are:
Lizardfolk Champion
Elf Wizard
Dwarf Fighter
Werewolf
This is based on the pics and the Mage Knight minis I own, there may be others. I don't mind myself, I just hope this isn't an ongoing policy between Paizo and WizKids. I look forward to reciving my case of minis (black dragon included) and hope the Rise of the Runelords set is just as good or better.
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The Mage Knight minis are:
Lizardfolk Champion
Elf Wizard
Dwarf Fighter
Werewolf
The warewolf was brought up earlier... The dwarf fighter is directly out of paizo art though, and the lizardfolk was altered from its original incarnation, but i guess you're talking about these minis Lizardfolk, dwarf option1, and dwarf option 2 while they do look similar, it has no where near the detail the pathfinder ones do. My guess is that its the same sculptor. I could not find anything that close to the elf wizard, after looking at every single mage knight piece made, there were a few of people in the same pose, but they were dressed completely different, and usually their back hand was holding something, and thier front hand was open instead of pointing. YMMV.
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Here's a bit of bad news...
I rebase Mage Knight minis on a regular basis for my D&D game and there were a few of these minis that I recognized. I don't mind this time but I hope that was just this once because this was a rush for Paizo to come soon after the Pathfinder Beginner box minis.The Mage Knight minis are:
Lizardfolk Champion
Elf Wizard
Dwarf Fighter
WerewolfThis is based on the pics and the Mage Knight minis I own, there may be others. I don't mind myself, I just hope this isn't an ongoing policy between Paizo and WizKids. I look forward to reciving my case of minis (black dragon included) and hope the Rise of the Runelords set is just as good or better.
I also rebase mage knight figures. Are these the mage knight figures?
Mage Knight Dwarven Axe-Knight
These do not look the same to me at all (other than werewolfs are hairy and brown and dwarves are short and stocky and elves have pointy ears). This was the only elven spell casterish mage knight fig I could find that looked somewhat similar. If these aren't the figures you meant could you please link the ones you do mean? Thanks.
Other than the similar poses for the MK dwarf and the Pathfinder dwarf, the minis don't look the same at all.
Regards,
V
It's almost January... do we have a release date yet?
One site is listing January 11th, though I don't know how much weight to give it.
Whoa, take it easy guys, I am a full supporter of this initiative by Paizo. I just hope Wizkids isn't scamming them by reusing molds without their knowledge. Here are the minis from Mage Knight that I stated looked the same:
Elf Wizard - http://trollandtoad.com/p132567.html
Werewolf - http://trollandtoad.com/p123891.html
Lizardfolk Champion - http://trollandtoad.com/p101719.html
Dwarf Fighter - http://www.trollandtoad.com/p103627.html
There may be some tweaking on the molds but they are basically the same. That was all I was saying.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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WizKids launched into this set full speed, and did in fact resculpt a couple of old Mage-Knight figures along the lines you suggest. They were already working on a generic fantasy miniature set when we started our partnership, and they wanted to salvage as much of that work as possible for the first set.
The Elf Wizard's pose is similar to the mini you posted, though I believe it is more of a resculpt using the original as reference. So the pose is similar, but our figure is not holding the same stuff, her ears are different, and there are differences in her robes as well.
The Werewolf is very very similar, though ours has a few more scraps of clothes on it. Since their werewolf honestly looked better than the one in the Bestiary, I approved this in the interest of expediency.
The Lizardfolk Champion started life as a full resculpt of the figure you posted, but was modified significantly to resemble a specific Pathfinder lizardfolk image.
The Dwarf Fighter is actually a complete coincidence. The Heroes & Monsters mini is a direct sculpt of the dwarf king from the back of the Inner Sea World Guide.
When we started this set, WizKids came to us with a list of "generic" fantasy miniatures they wanted to include in a starter set, and we matched their list with illustrations from our archive. I think there is one other figure in the set (the Human Rogue) with traceable lineage to Mage-Knight. The rest are all more or less pure Pathfinder.
For Rise of the Runelords forward, Paizo is making all decisions about which minis go in which sets, and all of them are based on official Pathfinder artwork.
Any timeline on the encounter sets and/or when individual minis will be available for sale?
The official release date for Heroes & Monsters, by the way, is January 11th! Case subscribers are being shipping their stuff to arrive as closely to that date as possible, depending on their shipping options on their "My Subscriptions" page.
To clarify, you meant that all Case subscribers will be shipped their stuff as soon as possible, or at around the same time, not that the people who paid for priority shipping will have their shipments delayed so as to arrive around the 11th, right?
If you are trying for simultaneous time-on-target shipping, I'd like to point out a couple of specific circumstances that add a day or four to shipping to my ZIP code...
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Case subscribers who have only the Battles subscription or who have set their subscriptions to "Never Hold Anything" should be getting order confirmation emails on Tuesday, January 3rd.
We estimate that we will being shipping of these subscription cases as well as regular preorders on January 4th. Since this is our first Battles subscription run, we are not sure how long it will take us from when we start the shipping process on Wednesday.
Our shipping system is streamlined to process orders in a way that allows us to ship out orders in the most efficient manner possible. We do not try to target specific orders for arriving on the release date, but rather the average order from the batch should arrive around the release date. Depending on shipping times to particular areas and the shipping method chosen, some people may see their cases earlier or later than others.
WizKids launched into this set full speed, and did in fact resculpt a couple of old Mage-Knight figures along the lines you suggest. They were already working on a generic fantasy miniature set when we started our partnership, and they wanted to salvage as much of that work as possible for the first set.
The Elf Wizard's pose is similar to the mini you posted, though I believe it is more of a resculpt using the original as reference. So the pose is similar, but our figure is not holding the same stuff, her ears are different, and there are differences in her robes as well.
The Werewolf is very very similar, though ours has a few more scraps of clothes on it. Since their werewolf honestly looked better than the one in the Bestiary, I approved this in the interest of expediency.
The Lizardfolk Champion started life as a full resculpt of the figure you posted, but was modified significantly to resemble a specific Pathfinder lizardfolk image.
The Dwarf Fighter is actually a complete coincidence. The Heroes & Monsters mini is a direct sculpt of the dwarf king from the back of the Inner Sea World Guide.
When we started this set, WizKids came to us with a list of "generic" fantasy miniatures they wanted to include in a starter set, and we matched their list with illustrations from our archive. I think there is one other figure in the set (the Human Rogue) with traceable lineage to Mage-Knight. The rest are all more or less pure Pathfinder.
For Rise of the Runelords forward, Paizo is making all decisions about which minis go in which sets, and all of them are based on official Pathfinder artwork.
Thanks for clearing that up. I figured it was something like that because first we heard Paizo was thinking about minis, then you announced it was on the way. The turnaround was super fast so some overlap is to be expected.
I have no problem with that. I am a subscriber and am eager to crack my case up in a few weeks.
don't you guys think this is a bit overpriced? with the old DnD miniatures boosters you'd get ~6 minis for about 10 bucks. These things had better look like masterful works of art if you're gonna be charging 4 bucks a medium or 6 bucks a large.
also: forcing people to buy a case to get your large dragon is kind of a silly business move. I'd get the dragon simply because I use a lot of bigger-than-large creatures in my campaigns, but if I need to spend over 100 dollars just to be allowed to buy the thing...
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don't you guys think this is a bit overpriced? with the old DnD miniatures boosters you'd get ~6 minis for about 10 bucks. These things had better look like masterful works of art if you're gonna be charging 4 bucks a medium or 6 bucks a large.
also: forcing people to buy a case to get your large dragon is kind of a silly business move. I'd get the dragon simply because I use a lot of bigger-than-large creatures in my campaigns, but if I need to spend over 100 dollars just to be allowed to buy the thing...
Your prices are wrong... at the end of D&D minis you got 5 minis in a pack for $14.99, or $3 a mini. Or the final set was a pack of 6 minis (1 of them huge) for $24.99 or $3.50 per mini with the huge costing $7. So this is the exact same price per mini, if you take the average cost of a case's packs and dived by the number of minis in them, it should be even cheaper than 3.50 per mini on average, as there are more midium packs in a case than larges, and at least 3 mediums per case should have 2 minis in them.
Also, the dragon was not force someone to buy a case to be able to buy it. Preordering a case told Wizkids that they needed to make 1 dragon mini - IE they only made enough to cover the preorders. Since these minis did not make wizkids any money (they are giving them for free) they don't want to make more than they needed to, this is a good business decision.
Businesses got one free dragon per case that they preordered as well. They can price these at whatever price they wish. I know of Local Game stores pricing them at $25-$50. I would suggest going any in your area and seeing if they have preordered any cases without having the dragon spoken for.
don't you guys think this is a bit overpriced? with the old DnD miniatures boosters you'd get ~6 minis for about 10 bucks. These things had better look like masterful works of art if you're gonna be charging 4 bucks a medium or 6 bucks a large.
also: forcing people to buy a case to get your large dragon is kind of a silly business move. I'd get the dragon simply because I use a lot of bigger-than-large creatures in my campaigns, but if I need to spend over 100 dollars just to be allowed to buy the thing...
If all you want is a generic huge figure to place on your table, then go to eBay and buy a bunch of D&D Minis from there. There are a lot of cheap huge minis. Also try going to Toad N' Troll to buy a bunch cheaply.
Pre-painted minis are NOT cheap to make. They never will be cheap. The cost is what it is -- it will not get cheaper. They will NOT be masterful works (not unless you want to pay about the $20.00 per mini it would cost for them to do such). They are still cheaper than buying a metal mini and painting it -- plus the plastic minis are lighter and you don't have to worry about the paint chipping off.
These minis are being sold at a very reasonable price for pre-painted minis.
Also, the dragon was not force someone to buy a case to be able to buy it. Preordering a case told Wizkids that they needed to make 1 dragon mini - IE they only made enough to cover the preorders. Since these minis did not make wizkids any money (they are giving them for free) they don't want to make more than they needed to, this is a good business decision.
Businesses got one free dragon per case that they preordered as well. They can price these at whatever price they wish. I know of Local Game stores pricing them at $25-$50. I would suggest going any in your area and seeing if they have preordered any cases without having the dragon spoken for.
Wouldn't simply allowing preorders of the dragon accomplish that goal?
and I remember them being cheaper - but it has been a while since I've purchased miniatures.
Wouldn't simply allowing preorders of the dragon accomplish that goal?
and I remember them being cheaper - but it has been a while since I've purchased miniatures.
I'm pretty sure this was said a while back in the thread, but at least two of the factors in higher prices are inflation and the supply and demand of the raw materials (for instance, the oil that is used to make plastic is in high demand in China to be converted into fuel). Now, you can buy older D&D minis on several websites, but these are ones that were produced when the manufacturing costs were cheaper. Note that the most recent D&D minis to come out, the Beholder and Dragon sets, are far more expensive than the Pathfinder minis, and many of the sculpts in those were reuses.
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The Black Dragons are a promotional thing done by Wiz Kids not intended necessarily for the end user but for distributors who bought cases. For every case purchased by them to do what they wish with. Paizo decided that they would give those who buy a case an option to buy the Dragon. They could have taken the Dragons and sold them separately but decided to give us case purchasers a chance to have them. I have heard that some game stores are selling them separately and those purchasing a case from them do not get them.
Wouldn't simply allowing preorders of the dragon accomplish that goal?
Not necessarily. It's already been pointed out why randomization is necessary to make these products economically feasible. Now, the Black Dragon isn't random: it's in it's own box, and even if it was collated into a case, it would be pretty clear what was in the one Huge booster. But by tying the number produced to the number of cases of other minis produced, it allows the same kind of cost-levelling as for the other rarities.
DISCLAIMER: I work for Paizo, but I don't know diddly about the actual production of these minis. What I say here is uninformed speculation based on the information in this thread.
Hmm. Cost-levelling explains why only one black dragon per case, but not why it's so cheap. I'm sticking with my initial assumption, that it was a marketing incentive for early pre-orders, to help them get a sense of the size of the market before ramping up production. That would be consistent with Paizo's background in periodicals; since failure to size print runs correctly can sink a good product, it's logical to expect that the execs are in the mental habit of obsessing on estimating demand.
Hmm. Cost-levelling explains why only one black dragon per case, but not why it's so cheap. I'm sticking with my initial assumption, that it was a marketing incentive for early pre-orders, to help them get a sense of the size of the market before ramping up production. That would be consistent with Paizo's background in periodicals; since failure to size print runs correctly can sink a good product, it's logical to expect that the execs are in the mental habit of obsessing on estimating demand.
I may be wrong, but I believe the practise of providing a premium with case preorders is Wizkids standard practise (and no doubt to boost initial demand to cover production costs and allow more optimal production runs, as you suggest). I doubt it was suggested by Paizo (though I expect they had input as to what the mini would actually be).
Wouldn't simply allowing preorders of the dragon accomplish that goal?
The goal with the dragon isn't to get it into as many hands as possible. It's to reward those people who bought large quantities of minis. Yes it's a tease, yes it encourages people to spend more.
People who buy in cases get a discount per-mini that comes from volume. That's great, but WizKids likes to put out promotional minis that provide further incentive to bulk buyers. Note: bulk buyers generally has meant stores in the past. A store could get a promo mini per case and sell it at whatever price they wanted, as a special reward for carrying the WizKids minis line.
Our being able to get our hands on these like stores do is kind of neat.
and I remember them being cheaper - but it has been a while since I've purchased miniatures.
Yeah, decaying memory will do that. I just picked up a 5-pack WotC box yesterday. $17 at retail. Basically $3.50/mini, one wasn't blind but the other five were. One was a snake swarm (which will get used but has to be ridiculously cheap to make), one was a crappy mold/paint grue, one was a Large scorpion that was kind of cool, and one was a choker that was also stupid-simple. Plus the visible Large devil. None of these were anywhere near the quality of the Heroes of Battle box I got last month from Paizo.
I expect my case of H&M to have in the realm of 80 minis in it. For $230 I'm under $3 a mini.
No complaints here.
My boyfriend and I split on a case ( I paid the extra $4 for the dragon, he has no interest in that). I can just see the day it arrives now:We'll split it down the centre and I'll beg him for every Venomous Snake, Lizardfolk, and Manticore he gets, and he'll do the same for every Spectre, Troll, and Lich...
Here's to hoping we actually are lucky enough to get all of those. I swear if we don't get one single venomous snake, but get every rare I'm going to cry.. I love the snake mini...