Yesterday I asked about playing a First Worlder Summoner. Thanks for the helpful replies!
What are the advantages of being a Synthesist? The huge discussion about them and the Ultimate Magic FAQ show this to be a popular choice.
I can see that temporary hit points make a caster feel secure. But losing out on economy of actions seems a dreadful price to pay. And then there is the loss of the eidolon's own feats, skill points, and class skill bonuses.
What am I not noticing?
Playing a synthesist is about making yourself better, where all the other summoners are about having outsiders do your stuff for you.
The extra hp and reducing a weak point. That's about it. The summoner is better in all other ways due to the extra actions.
I thought of some other points...
The loss of eidolon skills is somewhat offset by being able to afford a PC with higher Intelligence score.
When the campaign gets to high levels and enemies cast or breathe area-effect damage the PC is less at risk.
There are plenty of long-duration buffs. Using Resist Energy and Stoneskin instead of Haste and Fly means you've done your buffing of allies pre-combat and during combat can attack.
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Changing the subject slightly, would folks mind sharing their favorite Synthesist build?
Mechanic tastes aside:
Table time is another issue to consider. I chose synthesist in part because we have 6 players at the table. Rather than having to figure out and take actions for 2 creatures per round, one of whom is a spellcaster, it trims down the time my turn takes considerably.
That, and the fact that my PC is a spirit medium who summons his eidolon as a protective ectoplasmic shell, which is just so cool!
And ditto on not giving this to a newbie. My character sheet is multiple versions of my PC and eidolon: summoner alone, synthesized eidolon, enlarged eidolon, augmented eidolon from the feat plus summon eidolon spell, etc. Not recommended for the new folks. =-)
There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
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There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
So long as you ignore the stupid part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon. Does anyone else think that's stupid? Can I get a hell yeah?
Why play a Synthesist? RANGERS IT'S MORPHIN TIME!
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A few quick questions that the FAQ does not seem to answer...
1. Can a single attack benefit from both the Grab and Trip evolutions? (Serpentine me bites you and it both knocks you down and lets me wrap around you)
2. Would a one-level dip into Maneuver Master really let me get Improved Grapple, add Wisdom bonus to AC,and do an extra grapple check each turn at the cost of that turn's maneuvers hitting at -2? The last seems absurd: a second-level PC with grab and constrict and reach who can make two grapple checks each turn! That could be a pin and twice 1d6 damage!
3. If I do not do a monk dip, do my eidolon natural attacks allow me to take Improved Grapple without knowing Unarmed Strike?
4. How does it work to try to cast a spell while grappling? The combat rules and condition rules only appear to consider trying to cast while being grappled. Wouldn't it be easier if you were the grappler? Especially if a serpent with arms who uses its body instead of arms to constrict its foe?
Yes, quite ridiculous. Although in its defense... (a) Grappling is situational and (b) No one expects the grappling arcane caster!
So long as you ignore the stupid part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon. Does anyone else think that's stupid? Can I get a hell yeah?There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
Well, the part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon can be kewl, like in the picture provided by link below, but it shouldn't be obligatory.
So long as you ignore the stupid part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon. Does anyone else think that's stupid? Can I get a hell yeah?There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
Well, the part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon can be kewl, like in the picture provided by link below, but it shouldn't be obligatory.
Amidamaru, into the spirit sword.... UNITY!!!
Building a bit off of what Drothmal said, one of the main things that attracts me to potentially building a synthesist is that it would allow me to build a melee-oriented small character (I'm quite fond of gnomes) without having it be an uphill battle. I love the idea of a gnome synthesist 1/fighter X or a gnome synthesist 1/monk X.
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So you can do this
Synthesist Sam
N Human (favored class Summoner)
Sum 5 (Synthesist)
1st: Sum; Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Fused Eidolon, Fused Link, Summon Monster 1, Traits (Desperate Focus, Reactionary)
2nd: Sum; Bond Senses, Evasion
3rd: Sum; Combat Reflexes
4th: Sum; Shielded Meld, +1 Con
5th: Sum; Power Attack, Summon Monster III, Eidolon +1 Con
Str: 7/20
Dex: 7/14
Con: 14/14
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 22
Init:+4 (+2 Dex, +2 trait) Speed: 30 ft Darkvision
HP: 38/40 (5d8+10/5d10+10) AC: 26 (+4 Armor (MA), +2 Dex, +10 NA, +2 shield)
Fort: +5 (+1 base, +2 Con, +2 Circ) Ref: +5 (+1 base, +2 Dex, +2 Circ) Will: +8 (+4 base, +2 Wis, +2 Circ)
BAB: +4 CMB: +9, +11 Trip (+4 BAB, +5 Str) CMD: 17, 19 v Trip (+5 Str, +2 Dex)
SA: Evasion
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) +6 (1 rank, +3 class, +2 int); Knowledge (Planes) +9 (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 int); Knowledge (Nature) +9 (4 ranks, 3 class, 2 int); Knowledge (Religion) +9 (4 ranks, 3 class, 2 int); Perception +7 (+5 ranks, +2 wis) Spellcraft +10 (5 ranks, 3 class, 2 int); Use Magic Device +13 (5 ranks, 3 class, 5 cha)
Spells Known:
0- Daze (DC 16), Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Read Magic
1 (6/Day)- Grease (DC 17), Mage Armor, Compel Hostility (DC 17), Rejuvinate Eidolon (Lesser)
2 (4/Day)- Haste, Create Pit (DC 18), Summon Eidolon
Evolutions (8 pts): Claws (Free), Limbs Arms 2 (Free), Limbs Legs (Free), Imp. NA 2 (2), Bite I (1), Reach Bite (1), Electric Attacks (2), Improved Str (2)
Attack:
Bite +9 (1d6+5+1d6 x2 or Trip +11) and Claws +9 (1d4+5+1d6 x2)
W/ Power Attack
Bite +7 (1d6+9+1d6 x2) and Claws +7 (1d4+9+1d6 x2)
Enlarged w/ PA:
AC: 24
Bite +8 (1d8+10+1d6 x2 or Trip +13) and Claws +8 (1d6+10+1d6 x2)
Hasted DPR w/ PA:
Bite +8/+8 (1d6+9+1d6 x2) and Claws +9 (1d4+9+1d6 x2)
[.5(16)+.5*.05(16)]2+[.5(15)+.5*.05(15)]2
[8.4]2+[7.87]2
16.8+15.74= 32.54 DPR
Gear: Headband of Alluring Cha +2 (4000), Human Bane Amulet of Mighty Fists (5000), Wand of Rejuvinate Eidolon (2 PP), Wand of Enlarge Person (2 PP), Scroll of Invisibility x3 (3 PP), Potion of Fly x3 (6 PP), Acid Flask x5 (50), Scroll of Resist Energy (150)
Total: 9200
This character was built with PFS in mind. I put him up against a young white dragon (constrained to a room, as per a PFS encounter) by himself and he killed it without taking a single point of damage. Yeah, the action economy is a valid point. But it's still fun to play a giant fantastical creature who has virtually no weaknesses, does a ton of damage and can heal itself. With the amulet, any human opponent is basically mince meat.
Ultimate Magic, pg. 80: "...the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of the eidolon." (emphasis mine)
Translucent =/= transparent.
From Dictionary.com: "permitting light to pass through but diffusing it so that persons, objects, etc., on the opposite side are not clearly visible: Frosted window glass is translucent but not transparent"
Getting back to the original topic, the synthesist is good for a self-buffing caster/melee concept. As noted, the synthesist only has a single set of actions, instead of two sets with a normal summoner/eidolon; however, the synthesist is about making the summoner a better combatant, not having a pet to do the fighting. It allows more flexibility in choosing alternate form abilities than either druid or beastmorph alchemist at the cost of being limited to a specific alternate form; where a druid or alchemist can choose different forms/abilities each time they use wildshape or brew a mutagen, the synthesist is pretty much locked in until gaining a new level.
Why play a Synthesist? RANGERS IT'S MORPHIN TIME!
Now I want to write a campaign where the initially secret major plotline focuses on a team of evil Synthesists trying to acquire all of the pieces of the legendary Armor of Voltron--an artifact that would give them the ability, if each wore one piece, to summon an End Of The World sized outsider they "wear" as one super-Synthesist.
EDIT: Why did my icon turn into a Smurf?
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Think of it as a 70 point build; dump Str and Dex entirely (low as they can go, 7 in most campaigns), then get the points. Add a near-invicible shell of armor to a "close to full" caster (bard, but with spells lowered in level such that they keep up in many ways with full wizards), and you get the feeling of what a synthasist is. Also, you get the evolution surge series of spells; which in one spell can be flight or stat buffs or speed or +8 skill bonuses or blindsight.
The important question is "why would you play anything else"? In the party of 4 thread, you'll note team summoner is the ONLY team that doesn't miss ANY other classes; and you could take that further and say team synthasist would probably be the hardest to kill party in existence.
Think of it as a 70 point build; dump Str and Dex entirely (low as they can go, 7 in most campaigns), then get the points. Add a near-invicible shell of armor to a "close to full" caster (bard, but with spells lowered in level such that they keep up in many ways with full wizards), and you get the feeling of what a synthasist is. Also, you get the evolution surge series of spells; which in one spell can be flight or stat buffs or speed or +8 skill bonuses or blindsight.
The important question is "why would you play anything else"? In the party of 4 thread, you'll note team summoner is the ONLY team that doesn't miss ANY other classes; and you could take that further and say team synthasist would probably be the hardest to kill party in existence.
Evolution Surge is also great for getting energy immunities, for a borg-like feel.
Ouch fire damage 'casts evo surge to get immunity to fire'
ow they tried acid instead 'casts evo surge to get immunity to acid'
etc
good times :)
It could just be that some of us play for fun, we choose character based of what we want to play as not what some math major says is how to win the game
I am Commander Shepard and this is my favorite post on this thread!
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Playing for fun and winning the game can synergie together. In the case of this thread, they are looking for compelling reasons to play a Synthasist, which are pretty easy to give. They are the most powerful version of the most powerful class. Base summoners are great, as they cast and attack; but the synth simply eliminates that "squishy guy" represented by the base summoner, and encases him in a by-level-10 38ish AC and lets you focus on save feats (Dwarven synths are particularly my favorite for this reason).
I don't know if I can come up with a compelling, mechanical reason to play a Synthesist over a normal Summoner.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I can come up with a compelling, mechanical reason to play any melee character over a Synthesist.
I think most people who are saying there is no real mechanical reason to play a Synthesist over a normal Summoner has never played a Summoner at high levels. At high levels Summoners start having major problems because of their magic item split. The biggest issue is that only one of them can have a cloak of resistance, so you basically have to decide whether you would rather have the Summoner or Eidolon be failing every saving throw he encounters.
Of course, this really only matters if your game is going to go far past level 10 and your GM doesn't allow custom magic items (aka, creating a cloak of resistance like item that takes a different slot).
Hell yeah! :D
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Compelling mechanical? Literally that half-elf outside the body is a walking liability; weak AC, generally poor saves, and if he falls the Eidilon goes poof.
Synths lack this problem. They gain a dump stat (Dex), basically gaining 9 free stat points over a regular summoner (my PFS summoner bought Dex to a 14, a Synth would have it at 7). They have ACs superior to any melee class. And they have hp superior to any melee class (Synth + Eidilon's at temp?).
And yes, I have never played a campaign that allowed customizable magic items, so the item split + cost, coupled with the difficulty of getting a non-resistance bonus, makes saves a problem. At level 7 my PFS summoner is +6 +5 +8 on saves. I do work around it well, and have only fallen twice to bad saves that forced my Eidilon to be dismissed. I try to stay within 10 feet of the Eidilon for +2, but it's often not possible; and when it is I risk my 18 AC (16 +2 for closeness bonus)
Synths can also take improved / greater trip, and get early Dragon Style for pounce builds. Decent Int + far more feats make them much better mechancally @ fighting.
Summoner-regular is an action fiend, but action economy becomes a lot less necessary if you form an indestructible mass of spellcasting and combat power.
Playing for fun and winning the game can synergie together.
Well, to me this isn't a game you can "win".
Playing for fun and winning the game can synergie together.Well, to me this isn't a game you can "win".
Of course it is, you just have a self-defined win condition.
For some, that win condition is doing "the most damage." For some, it's "accurately portraying this person I created." It's a pretty flexible thing.
I wouldn't really want to play with people who are "in it to win it."
The closes I come to defining "winning" is "everybody is having fun."
I think most people who are saying there is no real mechanical reason to play a Synthesist over a normal Summoner has never played a Summoner at high levels. At high levels Summoners start having major problems because of their magic item split. The biggest issue is that only one of them can have a cloak of resistance, so you basically have to decide whether you would rather have the Summoner or Eidolon be failing every saving throw he encounters.
Of course, this really only matters if your game is going to go far past level 10 and your GM doesn't allow custom magic items (aka, creating a cloak of resistance like item that takes a different slot).
I must admit I do see how keeping 2 "characters" outfitted with only one "wealth by level" purse could get difficult fast. That said,I'm honestly failing to understand what you mean by saying only one of them can have a cloak of resistance. Are you saying you could only afford to buy one cloak, or is there some mechanic that I've somehow totally missed?
The benefits depend on your preferred play style. If you like having other fight for you then go regular. If you prefer to fight then go Synth.
Synth is also good if you have a regular "Monster Itch." You want to play something weird. Synth can fit almost any mold you could come up with.
So long as you ignore the stupid part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon. Does anyone else think that's stupid? Can I get a hell yeah?There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
That drives me batty! I want to be inside a robot!
That drives me batty! I want to be inside a robot!So long as you ignore the stupid part about appearing inside of the transparent frame of your Eidolon. Does anyone else think that's stupid? Can I get a hell yeah?There are some character concepts that can only really be done as a synthesists (like a power ranger!)
Just the whole idea of summoning an extraplanar being inside of you to become super-powered is really neat!
Truth be told, I think the transparent frame thing is awesome because it makes me think of Naruto. Hence why I really really want to play a gestalt ninja/synthesist summoner XD
Edit: Of course, I can understand why this would interfere with most other character concepts...
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Since the eidolon is translucent and not transparent, you can easily hide yourself by casting light on your clothes or armor. The effect then would cause this light to be diffused in the eidolon, giving it a cool glow and effectively hiding you. Photography ftw.