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Xailu's Further information on the Panopticon:

The panopticons (plural intended, since there is one located within each canton of Astrarium) are believed to be located in what would have served as the 'head' of each of the Worldweavers. Each is dominated by a construct that is, in some way, indicative of the current state of the cosmos that the trio fashioned, and the cantons take their names from what functions it is easiest to keep track of in each construct.

Supposedly the constructs were already present when the city-world was first discovered and the custodians first founded. Unlike most buildings, which are almost never re-used, the Orreries have been in constant use since their discovery, with a new Custodian moving in whenever their current caretakers die. The constructs are simply too useful for the building to lie empty and it to become forgotten.

Experimentation on the constructs has confirmed that each one possesses some level of sentience (suspected to be remnants of the consciousnesses of the Worldweavers themselves), but only the most ancient, patient, and strong-willed of the Custodians have found attempts at communication to be safe and comprehensible, and they all report that the communications are far closer to observing something's dreams than actually have its attention.

The scrying devices in the room aren't really owned by any particular individual, but rather tend to be dropped off in the room whenever a custodian acquires a scrying device (as very few of members of the order actually feel any need to keep scrying devices, given their own capabilities).

"I... I..." The man blinks in confusion, his thoughts whirling. I'm not dead? But... then that must be one of the Custodians, not whoever set that trap. Oh thank the heavens! Wait. I just pulled a knife on one of the custodians. Oh damn oh damn. Will they let my family live when the kill me? Maybe he hasn't noticed yet. Slowly he lets go of the hilt of his knife, letting it slip back into the sheath. Track my steps? But then they'll see about her and me and oh no, I swore no one would find out, surely there's some way to keep it from coming up... focus on business then, don't let them see your fear Edric! "We had just started the viewing when I noticed the water in the cauldron start to boil off, sir. I knew that wasn't supposed to happen, but before I had a chance to say anything, Decklan and Maria were dead. It must have been a ward, but the cauldron should have filtered that out, kept them safe." That damned dragon didn't warn us there might be something warding the scene! What if the cauldron had blown up? I might have been killed!

While everything he says seems true (there's no contradictions in his thoughts, or other signs of deceit), there's a few oddball things. For instance, while he seems sad about Maria's death, there's something closer to a sense of pleasure or relief at Decklan's.

The knowledge Arcana line was about the Panopticon as a room, not your vision, so no worries on that Skulda.

Where's that damned dragon at? Oh no, they must have tracked me and are trying to get rid of loose ends! Edric's thoughts come across clear as a bell as Validk pops into existence in front of him. "Help! Help! We're under attack!" He shouts out, his hand darting for a small knife that hangs from his belt.

A different runner, dressed like a simple messenger, pauses to answer Xailu's question (note that there aren't any Custodians except for the group where you can see them in the room). "There's a log in the library, sir, where the seers have to sign off on all the visions and interpretations they submit. I think it includes which station they were using at the time. But that will only tell you anything if someone saw something they thought important enough for the Custodians to keep track of and act on."

Skulda's Skill rolls:

You can't really narrow it down to anything specific, given the results of your rolls. Certainly there have been any number of famous spears throughout history and the planes, but you can't really think of any that match the description of what you saw and felt. You do recall a particular passage that seems like it might relate, and is often used in arguments over whether or not the Aboleth have a religion, but it is unreliable, because it is a translation from a proto-form of their current language, and they're known to get notoriously short tempered when asked about it.

[u]And the (will/untranslatable verb) of the Annihilator is sharper than any (stone/reality), and all who are (touched/changed/interacted) (by/with) it (did/will/have/shall) come to (bleed/die/cease/suffer). It (moves/acts/behaves/mimics) the (untranslatable non-verb), without (being known/moving/thought), and even (fate/consequence/time) and (elders/endless/immortals/ancients) fall before its (resoluteness/conviction).[/u]

More to come later, but thought I'd get something up before going into work today.

sounds good! I might not get a post up tonight (have to find a new supplier for livestock feed, as the local store owner just let me know he's closing his doors) but i'll get to it tomorrow at the latest.

Waiting to hear back from Validk to determine what is going on with the runner for folks.

Raiana, we've started back up. head on over to game play and feel free to involve yourself.

I stand by my theory that eidolons are actually aspects of Rovagug, when foolish mortals weaken the barrier of his prison, so he can perform more experiments on potential shapes of future spawn. Originally posited here.

It would strongly imply that they're probably being judged for how effective they were when not summoned, which means there's at least thought, if not actual living, going on.

Skulda wrote:

Does Greater Arcane Sight let me see the spell damage without spellcraft? I mean, without gaining any understanding from it, just to notice the damage.

You can see enough to know that the cauldron was a scrying device of some sort, up until very recently. Without a skill roll you can't really be certain if you're seeing the magic pattern break up because the item has been depleted, damaged, or simply because it is no longer in use, though you do suspect the first two are more likely.

The girl nods as an answer to Skulda's question about what they had been scrying on, while answering Kikubwa verbally. "Edric... he was Decklan's scribe, in charge of recording what he saw and interpreting it. I think he's going to fetch Lord Ocuirthos. He was the one who asked for the scrying."

Validk finds that he can't manage to penetrate the grief and shock of the elf-girl's mind, or at least not to any degree where her fragmented thoughts make any amount of sense to him.
Unnamed Twin's will save 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (19) + 3 = 22
Edric's Will Save 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (7) + 5 = 12

I'm going to hold off for a moment on describing Edric's thoughts and reaction to Validk's appearance, in case you want to hold off on that for a moment based on the girl's information. If you still want to go through with it, than no worries, you can place the spell as you wanted without any real difficulty.

The room is the heart of Ocuirthos' Panopticon, and you've certainly at least heard stories about what it is like, even though you usually receive briefings outside it, to avoid distracting any of the seers that are working. The Orrery is an extremely potent scrying device, supposedly already present when the first Custodians arrived in the city. The most commonly known/used power it possesses is the ability to show both the past and present alignment of the Outer Planes (the knowledge of which is used by the Custodians to extrapolate on what the alignment might look like in the future, and how they can keep it in balance). Knowledge Arcana can tell you quite a bit more about it, depending on what your skill roll totals to.

The people who are manning the scrying stations are (you believe) mostly sworn followers of one member of the Custodians or another, chosen for their gifts with divination magic and/or other talents related to predicting the behavior of the outer planes and their denizens. Some custodians (such as Ocuirthos) deliberately recruit mortals to serve in positions like this, while some mortals who lack the necessary abilities and mindset to take an active role in in maintaining the balance seek out Custodians to serve in this way. Without their help and support the order as a whole wouldn't be anywhere near as effective at doing what it needs to.

Closer inspection reveals the kneeling figure to be a relatively androgynous young human woman, who is holding the head of her identical twin, while sobbing silently. The other collapsed seer is an elderly elvish male. When she answers Xailu, her voice is a very close match to one which screamed earlier. "We were trying to find out what happened in one of the demi-planes, to a custodian, but... something went wrong. Decklan just collapsed coughing blood, and Maria screamed before she fell and hit her head on the cauldron." With a sniffle she finally turns grey eyes on you. "Please, help sir. She's not breathing."

A quick inspection of the area does suggest that this story is accurate, and while blood is still oozing from Decklan's mouth, it is a sluggish flow that suggests he is already dead.

Perception DC 40:

Something slightly off in the edge of the cauldron catches your eye, but only by running your fingers over it are you able to be certain about the faint fracture in the stone that runs vertically down its side, across the bottom, and back to the mouth opposite where it started.

Spellcraft DC 21 (Requires active Magical Senses):

Even a cursory inspection of the cauldron reveals that something has inflicted substantial damage on the spells that had been woven into it. It is definitely not safe to use in the condition it is currently in, and you're not sure if the magic could be stabilized after the item is repaired, at least without some minor detrimental effect.

Heal DC 20:

Both the male and female diviners are dead, and you can readily identify that the appear to have died as a result of having been experienced force damage near the middle of their backs and moving forward through them.

Post up! Jet lag turned out worse than I'd thought it possibly could. I blame crying kids a few rows ahead that kept me from getting any sleep.

Skulda Will Save (DC34) 1d20 + 24 ⇒ (14) + 24 = 38
A successful save versus the trap that was left for people who might try and scry on his death leaves you Shaken for the next half-hour. This probably will not have much meaningful impact, beyond a few skill rolls.

Skulda's Vision:

It takes a moment, for the spell to find the answers you are looking for, almost as if the magic behind it is hesitating. When your vision comes, you have just enough time to realize that some other spell had been lying in wait for the unsuspecting seer, before it arrives in the form of a phantom impact at the small of your back. Your eyes are drawn downwards to the spear that has skewered you from behind, a full fifty of your hands trying to grasp the shaft and force it back and out, while the others hang unresponsive. As they slide ineffectually over the gore-soaked length of the spear, you feel your legs buckle, unresponsive to your commands, and your vision fades into darkness.

The spell collapses as the darkness deepens, leaving Skulda physically unharmed, but slightly rattled by the experience.

Perception DC 45 Regarding contents of vision:

You could vaguely recall feeling faint ridges on the spear in the vision, but you noticed, just as the spell was falling apart, that the hands which were trying to force the spear out of you were actually getting sliced open as if they were sliding along a cheese-grater.

Heal DC 15 Regarding contents of Vision (20 if described instead of experienced):

The location of the blow from the vision would have severed Lynsander's spine, paralyzing him from the wound down. Given the fact that it was the only wound noticed in the vision, you can conclude that it was a matter of skill rather than luck which led to the spear landing there.

As Kikubwa tries the door, it opens easily on well-oiled hinges, some hidden counterweight making it susceptible to even a gentle push. Beyond the antechamber where you all are gathered, there's a great circular room, easily four or five hundred paces across. Double doors like the one you have opened dot the perimeter every thirty feet, most closed, but a few open to betray the presence of living spaces and other antechambers beyond them. Like the hall way and antechamber from which you are coming, the walls have been carved of a pale ivory like substance, but within the great room the walls shed a soft white light.

The floor plan of this great room is remarkably open, sloping upwards towards the center of the room just enough to be noticeable. At its apex, dominating the center of the space, is a great orrery that rises almost a two hundred feet into the air. Colored sand and bits of glass float in eddies and drifts, constrained and suspended by magic within the mechanism. Minatures of some of the great landmarks of the outer planes can also be seen, worked in amazing detail as they drift along, complex magic allowing the arms that support them to occasionally intersect but never collide.

Below the Orrery, moving down the slope in a pair of haphazard spirals as they approach the outer walls, are perhaps a hundred work stations, each a station a small circle of desks and tables and chairs congregated around a scrying apparatus of one type or another. At each station, you can see a small group of mortals working, taking notes and dispatching messages between each other.

At each station except one, that is. About half way up the hill and slightly widdershins of the door you've opened, there is a small cluster of four desks around an ancient cauldron of stone which is currently smoking. Two figures are sprawled on the ground near the cauldron, while a third is kneeling over them, and a fourth runs towards the far side of the small hill on which they're located.

Not too busy, just responsible for operating on bad assumptions.

An old friend of mine had invited me to come out and spend a week at his place in hawaii, which I was enthusiastic to do. Unfortunately, I kind of assumed that there would either be a hardline internet connection, or I'd be able to route through a cell phone signal and connect, to keep the game going. Thus, I didn't think to give you guys a heads up.

I turned out to be quite wrong about the internet situation. As such, I want to apologize to you all.

Anyways, I'm writing this up from the airport while waiting to board. Presuming I'm not too jet-lagged after the flight, I'll get back in the swing of things tomorrow. If the jet lag does kick my arse, it might take me until the day after to get a post up.

So, my apologies again guys, and I'll definitely be getting things going again if you're all still interested.

Skulda's Vision:

For long moments the mists of time stay closed about Skulda, and the magics she has called upon echo her question back at her in confusion. The mists begin to resolve into flickering impressions that come and go too quickly to be absorbed, a series of moments without the linkage of underlying causality. Quickly Skulda realizes the magic needs more focus, a more specific question, or she will be overwhelmed, and the spell lost with nothing of value gained.

[ooc]I think that your question is a bit open ended for the spell you're trying to use, Skulda. What happened to Lysander is to vague for you to receive a vision of, or at least any vision that would be comprehensible: after all, his entire life has happened to him. If you'd care to rephrase to be a bit more specific (such as 'How did the titan Lysander die?' or 'Where has his soul gone?' or even just limiting your what to a period of his life, the spell would be functional. You are welcome to do so without needing to recast it.

The decor of this waiting room is utilitarian but comfortable. Along each of the side walls there is a divan, and in each corner of the space a chair. Each piece of furniture comes from a different age and culture, and while sturdy, they betray that they have seen many pass this way, and intend to see many more follow you. Above you an oval perhaps 15 paces across at its longest point dominates the ceiling, allowing you to look down at the Boneyard as Astrarium revolves above it.

From beyond the great double doors, you all hear a voice scream in pain, and go almost immediately silent. The door remains shut, the group of you alone.


"That will not be necessary at the moment. I have been asked to convey you directly to Ocurithos, if you would take my hand." The Herald extends its hand to the ape. "Gently, if you please. This shell needs no more broken parts."


You recall a few stories, told to you by your mother's mother, about a titan that was given the name Lysander by a trio of Norns, because it claimed to have none. It regarded the changing of its nature as presumptuous, and took offense. Usually such a conflict would have been short, but the Norns, to their chagrin, discovered the thread of the titan's fate was such that it could not die. Taking advantage of their hesitation, Lysander captured those Norns, and they languished for a time as its prisoners. Eventually the Norns won their freedom by fating a hero to change the titan's heart so it would come to know regret, compassion, and mercy, and therefore let them go.


The Herald is pleased to tell you a great deal of what it knows, but unfortunately it appears to have taken the request as an invitation to reminisce about the 'old days', as it were. If tales were actually made of yarns, the few useful pieces of information the Herald has for you would amount to nothing more than a scant few inches, buried in a mile of tangents and recollections that tell you nothing of value... nor of any real interest.

It is, in a word, boring, and full of names that you have never heard, because there was never anything to be heard about them. But, there are some nuggets to be found among the old Angel's ramblings, if you have the patience. In particular:
-Lysander, you are able to determine, was a hekatonkheires, one of the first to find its way back from the realms whence the gods exiled his forebears.
-Lysander is not the True Name of the titan (which it has ever guarded jealously), but rather the name by which some of the fey who first found it called it.
-He was believed to be immortal, in much the same way as the Terrasque. It was this trait in particular (which seemed unique to him among all the titans who have returned) that caused the Custodians to actually seek him out and recruit him (usually the custodians prefer others to approach them). The Herald seems to have some misgivings about the role it played in this process, which you gather involved the forcible application of intense magic to break Lysander's mind and change his natural thought process.
-The titan actually possesses biological offspring of its own, living on a distant world within the Material plane. One of the conditions under which he continued to work for the Custodians, after discovering what had been done to get him to do so in the first place, was that the Custodians keep the existence of the sancutary of his progeny hidden from the gods (they're not required to protect any of the progeny who leave the planet, and will often hunt them down, rather than risk the secret getting out to the divinities).
-In terms of power, Lysander is a pretty heavy hitter, combining the native capacity for violence that is part of his heritage with dabbling in the arcane arts. A particularly vivid illustration of that is given in the Herald's tale of Lysander once physically tearing a malebranche limb from limb, while simultaneously unweaving the gate it had been trying to launch an invasion through.

Regrettably the Herald doesn't have much information about this specific situation, beyond what it has already told you and the others, though it does happily relate to you anything specific it related to them. It wasn't part of Lysander's departure (you get the feeling that The Herald tried to avoid the titan whenever it was in Astrarium), so it doesn't know many details about what was expected in the realm Lysander went to, or the background that led up to Lysander being sent... but it does know that Ocuirthos was the one who sent him, and suggests that your questions might be best answered by the dragon in person.

For everyone who takes the hand of the Herald, it speaks a few short words, and the inevitable feeling of teleportation twists your guts. You find yourselves appearing within a highly vaulted but otherwise barren hall, lit by a plethora of eternal flames that make the area relatively equally lit throughout. Each herald (except for the one with Skulda) dissolves almost immediately into dust and ice crystals, unraveling to melt on the floor. Humans in livery that sports the crest of Ocuirthos quickly move each of you away from the space in which you appeared and down the hall, towards a set of great double doors. "Wait here a few moments," you each are told, as the rest of the group is added to those waiting with you "While we make sure the lord is ready to receive you."

Spellcraft DCs 21 and 23:

DC 21 The spell which was used to bring each of you here was Word of Recall.
DC 23 The dissolving Heralds appear to have been some variant on the Simulacrum spell.

Validk Ghujod wrote:
Would you allow Dimensional Agility to work with any class ability that works as Dimension Door?

I don't see a big deal with that at this level.

Xailu wrote:
Nobody told me we started on Saturday. I am here now. I will read, and then post something in character.

No worries! I just happened to have a bout of insomnia and no plans last weekend, and decided to do something useful by getting us kicked off. Weekend posts are likely to be the exception rather than the rule for me.


"Usually that would be it, but I've been asked to bring you directly." He answers with a small shrug. "If you are ready?" He extends a hand in invitation.

You're pretty sure Lysander is one of the Custodians who has a very loose interpretation of what the tradition of maintaining a dwelling in Astrarium actually means. While he nominally has a house in Ocurithos' canton, he spends so little time there it is considered a minor scandal, and the source of an occasional joke. The last one you remember hearing had a three foot tall coral reef having grown in his bath house between two of his (consecutive) visits.

You also have a vague memory of the name being somehow important from before you joined the Custodians... a Knowledge: History check can be made to recall more about that.


"Thank you for the offer. Someday, perhaps, I will ask you to put an end to it... but for now, there are things of too much importance to still be done." He waits patiently for her to gather her things as he speaks. When she asks about the means by which they will get there, he extends a hand for her to take. "I have been given leave to bring you there directly, if you wish."


"I couldn't say, master Validk. I was not party to the original briefing, and it didn't come up when I was sent to fetch you." The Herald leads the way out into the courtyard, turning to offer his hand. "If you will consent to traveling under my power, I can save us time."


"Xailu?" The herald seems put a bit offbeat for a moment by the silent greeting, but it recovers quickly enough after confirming the identity of who it is speaking to. "Lysander the titan has fallen. Lord Ocuirthos asks that you accompany a group to determine how this happened, and make record of it. Will you accompany me?"

As with the others, the Herald extends a hand, waiting for you to take it.


"Raiana Mithesmae." The Herald bows his head politely in greeting, as it passes over the thresh-hold of her door. "There has been an incident compromising one of the pocket realms, and the first Custodian on the scene has fallen. Lord Ocuirthos is putting together a group to deal with the matter, and requests your presence in his Panopticon, if it is convenient."


"Lysander, the titan." The Herald answers her question softly, moving over the couch and lowering himself, though his body never touches it. "Lord Ocurithos has asked that you attend him and a gathering of others, my Lady. He believes the subject matter will be of particular interest to you."

There's no illusions or anything that true seeing would penetrate. There are, however, a pair of minor spells affecting him; Overland Flight and a second that you can't put a name to (because you've not seen one like it before), but can determine is designed to attenuate the ongoing pain of his injuries.


The Herald murmurs a soft blessing in Celestial at the offer of refreshment, before taking the cup and sipping from it. He chooses to remain 'standing' though. "Unfortunately so, Validk Ghujod. One of the Custodians has fallen, in a demi-plane constructed by a Souldrinker. There are obviously concerns over what shall become of this. Lord Ocurithos requests you visit him and lend your talents to resolving the matter."


"Yes, Kikubwa Mfalme, it does." The Herald confirms softly. "But I thank you for your welcome all the same. It is feared that Lysander's death will allow others to gain a foothold in the realm he was tasked with sealing. Lord Ocuirthos believes any team sent through to deal with the matter will need your sword, and asks that you attend him."

Have you considered the Grenadier Archetype?

Admittedly, it doesn't get rid of the magic or mutagen that you dislike, it does get you the grenade/bomb setup.

You could always have a mutagen and/or extracts and simply not use them.

Okay, took a bit longer than I expected because the phone just wouldn't stop ringing. But it is up now.

Canton of the Outer Planes
Astrarium, City of the Custodians
15th of Rova, 4605 AR

The Herald woke as the false dawn of the Boneyard cast the shadow of a nearby tower over his bed, stabbing like the pointed finger of a god at his wardrobe. Another day. How long must an old man wait to die in his sleep these days? The thought was so well worn after these last few hundred years that he no longer tasted the bitterness of it.

With a groan, he rolled over, his reaching hand seeking the three bottles that his servant had laid out with customary clock work precision. The first helped of course, to quite the ache of his head, a pain that he knew had little to do with age, and far more to do with the tonics he took to ensure a dreamless sleep. The second quieted the aches of a body that he knew had lived too long, even if alchemy and magic kept it from knowing that truth. As he had so many days of late, he hesitated with his finger on the stopper of the third. It would taste foul, he knew... in almost five centuries he had yet to find any who could brew it so that it would be otherwise. As always, he finally drank it after a few moments of toying with the bottle, nearly choking on the thick and cloying liquid as he tried to swallow while lying down.

He had almost had his breath back, by the time the magic took hold of him, and he floated up, the sheets falling away from him before he angled his flight towards his changing room. The job, as always, waited.


He stopped on his way down the street by a small cart that was selling kebabs, run by a family of marids. They were new to this portion of the city, he thought, while taking a moment to observe the children playing as small clouds of mist. Travelers, he suspected, rather than anyone who would be residing for any long term. But even so they knew him, greeting him softly by title. He'd had a name, once, he reflected. He was nearly certain of that. But it had been a long time since the last of those to whom he had trusted it had died, and now, even in his own head, he thought of himself as The Herald. He realized now that he missed that familiarity with others... but none of those in the city around him seemed to stay long enough to warrant it.

He had barely finished the kebab when the wind whispered past his ear. He recognized the gentle baritone of Ocuirthos at once, stopping to listen to what was said. And what he heard chilled him.

It took only the smallest focus of will for his flight to propel him high above the canton, as he took a path that would follow the great curve of one of the thirty legs of this canton, to where they clasped the legs of their others. Below him lay the Panopticon where Ocuirthos had sent its message from, and he knew that if he looked closely he might see archons departing from the minarets, clutching their trumpets.

He brought out the prism of his office, holding it up to split the wan light of Groteus that filtered up to him, and gazed deeply into its facet, before looking up to nod to the four others of him that stood equidistant from it now. After so long at his post it no longer shocked him to see them fully formed, but it was still disquieting to watch himself be spun out of nothing but cold and dust and a little bit of light.

Each of the Heralds twisted space about itself as it finished forming, passing over great distances as they sought their own paths. Like him, they would find their destinations unerringly, and deliver their messages. They were The Herald of Astrarium, and that was what the position meant.


Before the dwelling that each of the PCs are inhabiting, an imposing elderly man in a flowing robe appears. It is clear from simply looking at him that he has seen a great deal of hardship in his life... his left eye is missing, and for anyone who looks closely by passing a DC 35 perception check, it is clear that though he presents himself as though he should be close to nine feet tall, there is nothing between his waist and the ground.

They knock, politely but firmly, on the door to your dwellings, topaz eyes shining as they wait for an answer. In the distance, you can hear a hauntingly beautiful dirge being played by trumpet Archons, picked up in rounds and carried towards you as it crosses the city.

Knowledge - The Planes:

DC 38 - This creature appears as though it might be a Solar, but if so it appears as though it doesn't quite have the whole disguise thing down. Solars also usually carry the symbol of their deity somewhere, and this one does not appear to have one present.
DC 48 - You realize that what you're looking at here are battle scars, rather than mistakes in a disguise. The solar has lost its wings, its left eye, and its body below the waist at some point in the past.

Knolwedge - Local: Astrarium:

DC 20: The trumpet archons of the city only play a dirge when a member of the Custodians is killed permanently while on duty for the organization.
DC 30: The figure is The Herald of one of the cantons of Astrarium.
DC 35: In particular the canton which is administered by Ocuirthos, a great wyrm Soverign dragon. Like each canton of Astrarium, it is composed of one of the husks of the world weavers.
DC 40: At the center of each canton is a building called a Panopticon, which is a home to powerful scrying artifacts, without which the Custodians would have a very difficult time doing their jobs.
DC 45: The Herald was once a solar, who was injured severely both in body and mind while serving in a conflict on the side of the Custodians. It is said that he can not be healed of his injuries because the missing portions of his body were trapped, still alive and metaphysically attached, with the enemy that was only barely sealed away.

Actually just started work on it and took a moment to see if there were any other questions, so it should be up relatively soon.

Grand Moff Vixen wrote:
Grand Moff Vixen wrote:
Mr. Swagger wrote:
Are we rolling hp or just taking half? If we are taking half will we round up or down? As an example the average of 1d8 is 4.5 so would we use a 4 or a 5?
Sorry to bump this again. I am still curious.

Ack! I can't believe I missed this. I think taking half the value of the die is how we'll do it. So, a d8 is worth 4, while a d6 is 3 and a d10 is 5, etc. First hit die (must be racial if you have them) is maxed out, of course.

Validk Ghujod wrote:
half celestial makes one outsider-native, which can be affected by resurrection.

True enough, I had forgotten that exception. thanks for pointing it out.

Sigz wrote:
Can an existing armor set be enhanced? I'm thinking of the Celestial Armor, wondering if it could be imbued with additional enchantments to up it's AC as it's the only armor I can find that let's Kiku utilize his full dexterity (unless I buy a tome to up it , hmmm...?)

Yes, it can be. However, you pay the price between it's current modifier and what you're moving it to. So, for celestial armor, you'd add on the price difference between +3 and +4 when you pushed it up to +4, and then between +4 and +5 when you moved it up to +5, etc.

Can weapons have both the holy and unholy properties? I can't find anything RAW that forbids it but I wanted to ask before buying it.

There's no reason you couldn't have such a weapon made, by RAW (indeed, I would swear I remember seeing one in an adventure, but that may have been 3.5 material). And there's no reason you couldn't wield one, as a member of the custodians. Obviously it does have some drawbacks, mechanically (no real chance of the two abilities ever stacking, like Axiomatic and Holy might), and you could end up with some issues socially as well ("It's just as much a threat to your enemies as to you!" is a perfectly valid argument, when these things are considered at a distance by entities of power. But the counter argument is "It isn't in my enemies' presence, and it is in my own presence, so it is more of a threat to me now.")

So, I don't have any issues with it, but NPCs in game may.

Grand Moff Vixen wrote:

DreamAtelier wrote:
Full casters (those classes possessing 9 levels worth of spell slots already) receive 9 levels worth of spell slots at each level, distributed as they choose. Once made, these choices can not be changed.

So I get 1 spell slot for the highest level I can cast?

Example: I have readjusted the levels of my druid to druid 15/green faith acolyte 10. When I hit level 21 with the acolyte I would get one additional 9th level spell slot? And again for the next 4 levels?

Right. But you don't have to take just a 9th level spell slot. You could instead take a 5th level and a 4th level slot, or a first, second and two third slots, or any other combination that would total up to 9 levels worth of spell slots.

Sigz wrote:
Kikubwa Mfalme wrote:
If I would take the Titan Mauler archetype would the enlarge person effect from Titanic Rage work on Kiku?


Also, I'm thinking of going down the superstitious rage power line (Witch hunter, Spell Breaker etc..) what do you guys think of that? It would mean I'd have to make a save to resist any spells you cast on me too.

I had to do some research and think about things a bit to come to an answer on the titan mauler question. The short of it is that I'm going to say Yes, class/archetype abilities like that allow you to affect whatever type of creature you are. It just doesn't make sense to do it any other way to me. Additionally, an awakened ape is sufficiently close to humanoid physiologically that I don't have an issue extending the spell to cover it.

As far as the superstitious line of powers, I don't have a problem with it... after all, you only have to make the saves while you're raging, and for this level, I suspect most buffs and similar such spells that you'd be targeted by will have been cast before combat actually starts.

Also, the bow and green faith acoloyte are fine.

Skulda and Validk both choose to apply the half-celestial template. Because they have more than 20 hit dice, they both gain Resurrection once per day as a spell-like ability... which also means it doesn't have a material component for either of them.

However, that still leaves outsiders in a bit of a pickle, because resurrection isn't able to hit outsiders (true resurrection is what you need). Also taking the template makes them both outsiders, so they can't hit each other with it (this doesn't matter to Skulda, who already was one, but it does impact Validk, who wasn't).

So, a true resurrection scroll (or something that could achieve a similar effect) would not be a bad idea.

No, you do not have to buy the arrows (or any form of magical ammunition) in groups of 50.

Validk Ghujod wrote:
Do we need to include the cost for our planar residence or is it assumed to be part of the background?

the house that you were asked to describe for the recruitment is just background stuff.

I don't really see traits as being important at this level, but yes, folks can pick two for free if they wish to.

Ah! spells can be purchased and scribed into your main spell book at the cost of a scroll (I've never been a huge fan of making you pay to scribe them the first time they're found).

If you're making multiple spell books, then you have to pay the scribing cost as normal (unless, of course, they're all in blessed books, which can be scribed as normal).

Note that you are responsible for securing your own spell book... I do not assume any protections beyond what you tell me, and it is not any safer than a fighter's sword when it comes to being targeted by your enemies. If you're looking for good suggestions on how to accomplish that, I recommend this thread. You don't have to be as paranoid as some of the folks in that thread (me), but reasonable precautions are expected.

DM Fnord wrote:
@DM How are you wanting to handle a wizard's spell book and spells available?

I'm not sure what you mean. Your spellbook and spells known are created as normal for your class. You may upgrade to a blessed book for just the cost of the blessed book (I won't make you pay to re-scribe all your spells for that particular purpose, since you should have picked it up by third level and the cost of re-scribing the spells you would have had at that point would be negligible).

So, for every level between 2 and 20, you get the standard two free spells into your spell book, of an appropriate level. For first level, you get the standard three + intelligence modifier (use your final modifier since ability bonuses are retroactive).

For each level beyond 20, see the above rules on magic beyond 20th level.

Swagger is right... adding special abilities to armor or a sword isn't what I meant by custom.

By custom, I was referring to the slotless item that grants extra 9th level spell slots, or the set of armor that casts a healing spell every time it is struck.

And yes, you may create items for other party members, but you do not receive any portion of the cost they spent on it.

As it came up in the above mentioned thread:

Custom magic items at creation will be allowed only if the PC could craft them (and please provide a breakdown for what you're crafting here, so it can be double checked).

Even if you can't make the un-slotted item, you could just roll the two amulets together for the cost of the higher ability plus 1.5x the cost of the lower.

DM Fnord wrote:
I'm going to be taking staff-like wand. Would that extend to the familiar?

I don't particularly see a problem with extending it to your familiar, but it would trigger off the familiar's stats and caster level (since they would be the one using the wand). This would mean that you're probably not going to be seeing much of a benefit (assuming a high intelligence familiar, you're probably looking at +1 to +3 on the save DC of most spells, and no real benefit to dealing with SR).

DM Jelani wrote:

My sort of researched opinions about a wild shaping druid:

Shaping Focus

Planar Wild Shape

Quick Wild Shape

Natural Spell (Obviously)

Powerful Shape

From looking at animals briefly I'd say your best animal option is probably the Tyrannosaurus, especially if you take the grapple feats. You could cast animal growth on yourself and be a pretty wicked grappler (until someone casts freedom of movement). Huge air elemental is probably a better flier than a Roc.

Overcoming DR is gonna be a problem for you as well. The t-rex focuses all it's damage into one big bite which would help a little. You can be a celestial one to overcome DR/Good as well, and Eldritch Claws would also be useful.

Shapechange is probably your best option since it gives you access to a few better forms (giants, dragons) and you can change shape 1/round as a free action. You may not be able to cast that every fight though.

A metamgic rod of extend spell is gonna be your friend as well. More buff for your buck.

I'd tend to agree with most of these assessments. I'd also say that you might want to consider the Feral Combat Training feat, which you can qualify for (aspect of the beast will get you natural weapons to get weapon focus with, or you can just wait until your total available hours of wild shape exceeds 24 at level 9 and get the feat that way). This would let you apply any unarmed combat feats to a particular type of natural attack, whenever you're in a shape that has it... and ability damage, such as from bonebreaker would bypass DR.

Admittedly this would be rather feat intensive. Shapechange is still probably your best option. If you use the Animal Domain for your nature bond, you'd get an extra casting of it per day.

DM Fnord wrote:

I'm finishing up my char sheet, and should have it ready for review tomorrow.

I'm torn on taking a standard familiar that just sits in my pocket and one that can use wands... any suggestions?

Wand usage is always nice, for the action economy thing. But, even if you have a wand using familiar, at this level you have to ask yourself how useful a spell from a wand is going to be.

For any spell that allows SR or a save, it probably won't be worth it that often, at least not against your main opposition. The DC for any saves allowed would just be so low that most creatures could make them on anything but a natural 1, while the caster level check of the wand is probably going to be so small it wouldn't have a chance of penetrating SR. However, the familiar might find itself quite useful in dealing with the minions of your opposition... a familiar with a wand of fireball or lightning bolt would certainly help to prevent you getting swarmed by any lower level backup your main opposition might be able to call.

For buff spells, it's probably still a fine idea. You get the extra buff in each round, and while the durations won't be great, they'll probably be sufficient.

So, I'd generally say your familiar would be relegated to a buffing roll... but there's nothing wrong with that, as it frees your character up to do some of the other, perhaps more important, things.

Also, given the wealth available, you could consider buying (or making) your familiar a staff, which will make it far more capable when it tries to do some of the other stuff. And be rechargeable.

Mr. Swagger wrote:
Mr. Swagger wrote:

If I use the following feat would I be able to bring anyone with me. It does say I actually cast the spell, but I figured I would ask first to be sure you read it the same way.


Dimensional Dervish

You teleport with a mere thought, savaging your opponents as you flash in and out of reality.

Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: You can take a full-attack action, activating abundant step or casting dimension door as a swift action. If your do, you can teleport up to twice your speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability), dividing this teleportation into increments you use before your first attack, between each attack, and after your last attack. You must teleport at least 5 feet each time you teleport.

Special: A monk can use additional points from his ki pool to increase his speed before determining the total speed for this teleportation.


Had to double check some stuff on it, but yup. You are actually casting the spell here, and thus can take others and objects as the spell rules allow.

DM Jelani wrote:
DreamAtelier wrote:
Skulda wrote:

I'm neutral good thanks to my celestial blood. I can also cast resurrection once per day, so death isn't necessarily death. Not that I want to die or anything, just saying.

Just wanted to correct a minor thing here: you definitely don't want to rely on your own 1/day resurrection to come back from the dead, since you'd need to be alive to use it. ^_^ Though it is a great thing for you to have and use on other party members when they need it.
That's what I meant :P I do have a separate question though, what happens if my shears get sundered? Since they are part of my race would they reappear the next day or something? Also, my spell resistance from half celestial is capped at 35 rules as written. It should really be 36 (CR+11), is that okay since we're playing beyond 20th?

I don't see a particular problem with easing the cap on that, given the level of the campaign.

As far as the shears, I'm trying to think of a good compromise that simultaneously ensures I can't just strip parts of your race from you, but also ensures that their destruction is as much an impediment as having a weapon sundered is to anyone else. So what I'm thinking is
-Any race with a unique racial weapon (like the shears) will be allowed to reforge them as a blade bound magus would a broken black blade. Which is to say, by waiting a week (during which time you are presumed to be working on the repairs) and paying 200gp per racial hit die in materials.
Please let me know if that seems fair to everyone else.

Skulda wrote:

I'm neutral good thanks to my celestial blood. I can also cast resurrection once per day, so death isn't necessarily death. Not that I want to die or anything, just saying.

Just wanted to correct a minor thing here: you definitely don't want to rely on your own 1/day resurrection to come back from the dead, since you'd need to be alive to use it. ^_^ Though it is a great thing for you to have and use on other party members when they need it.

Worry not: I fully expect you to attempt to sunder your enemies' gear. It helps to prevent the wealth inflation that leads to everyone running around with enough +10 weapons to arm a small nation. And yes, they will occasionally do the same to you, particularly when they've identified only one of your weapons as being able to bypass their defenses. Thus Adamantine (at least for your main weapon) is highly recommended by the GM, because it is the most likely to last.

For anyone thinking about focusing on natural attacks, do remember that if you are possess an alignment sub-type, your natural attacks (as well as weapons you wield) count as being of that alignment for the sake of overcoming damage reduction. It admittedly isn't the most potent thing, but it is worth keeping in mind during the game.

So... re-gathered rulings on character creation, just in case anyone needs them for reference.

Ability Scores:

-Members of 0 hit die races will use 25 point buy, and assign their stat increases as they choose.
-Members of monstrous races use the scores printed for their race in the book, but may shift a number of points equal to the stat increases they gained from racial hit dice.

Class Levels and Racial Hit Dice/CR:

-PCs will be constructed on the basis of 25 class levels. For members of 0 hit die races, this is relatively easily done (25 class levels are taken). No base class may exceed 20 levels. No prestige class may exceed 10 levels.
-PCs of monstrous races will subtract either the CR of their race, or the number of racial hit dice, whichever is greater, from their available class levels.
-PCs who take templates will do the same as a PC using a monsterous race, but using those class levels they still had available after selecting their race, rather than the starting 25.

PCs may select from the core rulebook races, or any monsterous race published in a bestiary. They may not be constructed using the rules for the Advanced Race Guide.

Starting Wealth:

-Each class level a PC has shall contribute to their starting wealth as standard for the wealth by level chart. For PCs with more than 20 class levels, add 125,000 gp per level to the upper value of the chart.
-Every two racial hit dice a PC has shall contribute to their wealth as if it were a single class level, rounding down.
-Templates which do not provide hit dice but do adjust CR do not result in any gain in wealth.

PCs with crafting feats may reduce the cost of any item they can craft by 10% when purchasing it with starting funds. In play crafting will be conducted at the full 50% reduction, but will require time.

Epic Items:

Do not exist. All items adhere to their standard caps. Epic level damage reduction and immunities may be overcome by items which have an enchantment that would increase their enhancement sufficiently, such as the Bane and Alignment orientated special abilities.

Magic Beyond 20th Level:

It is only possible to progress beyond 20th level in a spell casting progression by being a member of a prestige class.
-1/3 and 2/3s casters (those classes limited to 4th and 6th level spells respectively) continue to gain spell slots as normal for their progression until they have gained 9th level spell slots.
-Full casters (those classes possessing 9 levels worth of spell slots already) receive 9 levels worth of spell slots at each level, distributed as they choose. Once made, these choices can not be changed.

-Regardless of what type of caster the character is, spell knowledge progresses at the rate of learning 1 additional spell from their class list per level.
-As an alternative, the caster may choose to permanently reduce the cost of applying any metamagic feats to a particular spell by 1 at each level. Different spells (or the same spell) may be chosen at each level.

Metamagic Feat Houserules:

-All Metamagic feats may be stacked with themselves via repeated applications of the feat, but the standard rules for stacking multipliers apply (ie, two x2 multipliers only multiplies the base number by 3).
-If the Heighten Spell metamagic feat is applied to the spell a caster has chosen to reduce the cost of metamagic feats for, it provides the normal benefits for the feat, despite the cost not increasing. This may increase a spell's level beyond 9 for the purposes of calculating saves.
-The Intensify Spell feat adjusts the cap of all level based variables of a spell upwards by 5, provided no other metamagic feat can be applied to those variables.


Do not exist at the beginning of the campaign. As such, no PC may begin play with knowledge of them, or training in their use.


Are limited to those published by Paizo and contained on d20pfsrd.com


Leadership is a perfectly appropriate feat for a campaign at this power level. However, no cohort may exceed 20th level, and cohorts are NPCs. As such they may be controlled by the GM without warning, but will not refuse any reasonable request from the PC they are associated with during that time.
-Cohorts come with an amount of gear appropriate for a heroic NPC of their Level.
-Followers (when important) may be outfitted with an amount of gear equal to a non-heroic NPC of their level.

Neither followers nor cohorts receive a reduction in the cost of their gear based on their crafting feats. Equipment above their minimums may be purchased out of the associated PCs funds, and qualifies for a reduction as gear for that PC would.

I think I got them all. If there's anything I've missed, please let me know... and of course, and questions that folks have are always welcome.

I anticipate getting the first game play post up by the 23rd, and would like people to plan on having their characters completed by the 24th or 27th at the latest. If that isn't possible, let me know and we'll work something out; I don't anticipate mechanics being super important right off the bat, so there's a bit of of wiggle room that we can work with.

I'd also like to thank all of you for your sympathy and understanding... it was greatly appreciated.

Sorry about my absence... I remain committed to this project. Just had to put one of the dogs down after it got mauled by a fisher when I got home the other day, so that's got me a bit distracted.

I'll be back into shape by the end of the weekend, I promise.

Welcome, once again, everyone who made it through. I'm looking forward to this game, and hopefully so are you.

Feel free to work in story ties between your characters now that you've all been picked. These don't need to be significant, but being members of the custodians, you would all know each other by reputation at the very least, so it would at least be good to know what your character thinks of the others.

I am at work right now, but I hope to get the collected rules from the other thread all condensed down into a single post here for you later this evening, when I get home.

Alrighty. I'd like to thank everyone for their submissions. Picking among them was far from easy. If anyone would like to ask why you didn't get picked or for feedback, please feel free to PM me.

In the end, I decided to go with a group of five characters. It should allow for a relatively robust campaign, without leaving the gameplay crippled if someone goes missing. If someone does drop out, I might contact others from this list to see if they're still interested, and I might do an open recruitment again... it will depend, I suspect, on how far along we are.

So, the following people should head on over to the discussion thread, where I will be getting up a post with the collected rules for finalized mechanics within the next 24 hours.

-DM Fnord
-DM Jelani/Skulda
-Grand Moff Vixen
-Mr. Swagger

Thank you, once again, to everyone who applied.

Skulda wrote:

Here's my attempt at a list of what's been submitted so far:

Dm Jelani/Skulda - Advanced Half-Celestial Norn Monk
Baron of the Sands - Advanced Oread Monk/Fighter
OmniChaos - Aasimar Wizard/Celric/MT
Isonaroc - Changeling Witch/Savant
Monkeygod - Aasimar Inquisitor
Sol-Alar De Xin Min - Advanced Drow Noble Synthesist Summoner/Shadow Dancer
Ricky Bobby - Advanced Half-Celestial Aasimar Stormborn Sorcerer/Savant
Xara Ozolins - Half-Elf Master Summoner
Berenzen - Human Ranger/Fighter
Cuan/Hailani - Back to drawing board
Sigz/Kikubwa - Awakened Ape Barbarian/Ranger
Dm Fnord - Advanced Doppleganger Wizard

Just to double check: From what I can see, the only changes to Skulda's list are:

-Xara Ozolins withdrawn.
-Grand Moff Vixen submitted a Druid
-Mr Swagger submitted a Lillend Bard.

If there is anyone who I missed or who I've got the wrong character for, let me know.

I'm not going to set a specific time that it will close on the 15th, mainly because my schedule for this week is suffering from some modest disruptions due to an emergency visit to the vet... so, can't be sure when I'll get caught up and therefore be out of work on the 15th.

As far as the archetype abilities... yes, I'm willing to allow them to replace the standard racial option for the Lilliend

I haven't made a definite decision on the number of players I'll take, but it will almost certainly be in the 3 to 6 range. I really can't see doing more than that, and less than three wouldn't be all that fun I'm thinking.

Jelani's summary of the method of deriving monster ability scores is correct.

Blackblade has to be a one handed weapon of a very specific type, so not really Lune.

When picking your black blade's purpose, I recommend choosing something that will allow you to say it would try to dominate you if you get hit by an effect that turns you against your party. Functionally you get a second saving throw against the most dangerous effects for you to be hit with (since being dominated as a magus can often result in you killing a party member every round)

At higher levels the ability to have it teleport to your hand can let you still have access to it in a lot of places you normally wouldn't.

Technically whips are a one handed slashing weapon. So you could have a black blade whip, which would let you get reach for your touch attack spells.

You can sometimes convince a DM that a dancing black blade can pick and choose targets of its own accord, since it is sentient and doesn't need direction from you.

Grand Moff Vixen wrote:

I am interested in a rogue 20. Haven't looked at any of the prestige classes to make up the other five. I am beginning a background over the weekend and will have more soon. I am working 12 hour days right now so I may not have anything posted until around Monday. I should have a solid concept by then.

The basic concept is an upper-class noble from some old rich city. Race will be either from the core or featured races from the ARG.

Will this be ok DreamAtelier?

So far it looks alright (certainly from the brief mechanical overview). I highly recommend ninja over rouge, because the capstone ability of the ninja is amazing. It's a bit sparse at the moment for me to make a definitive judgement however (please see the second post of the thread for guidelines of what I'm hoping for). Ditto that for the other two classes you mentioned.

Also, I'd like to thank Skulda for making that list (I was hoping to get around to it over the weekend, but you beat me too it).

August 15th is the latest that I'll make the first cut and ask for mechanics from anyone who makes it through.

And Fnord is right... to determine number of class levels, apply all modifiers in sequence. So take 25 possible levels and first subtract the higher of hit dice or class for a monsterous race, then subtract the CR adjustment of any templates from what is left, and the final number is your class levels. While there are some monster types that this may seem an excessive burden for, there are just as many that doing it any other way would be too great a benefit to. Rather than trying to come up with a list of each and get bogged down into different folks' opinions on the relative value of their chosen race, we're simply going to go with a singular rule.

And yes, round down for the racial hit dice conversion when it comes to wealth.

Sol-Alar De Xin Min wrote:

With The natural armor bonus I would like a GM call on this, as a Synthesist 20L my Synthesist gets +2NA +12 from Evolutions

With an Amulet of natural armor +8 say dos that stack or not?
From reading the posts it says note. Its ok as Braces of Armor work just as well just cost more.

Also I want to take the

Two feats.
Eldritch Heritage ->BloodLine ->Arcane ->Arcane Bond ->familiar
The improved-familiar.

chain giving an improved-familiar (at PC Level -2) would that be Level 25-2 or Level 24-2
If you see where I am comming from.

If you have given up a class level for some reason (by taking a race with racial hit dice, or by taking a template), any discussion of character level in the rules is determined using the actual number of class levels you have. So, for your question, it would be 24-2.

As far as the amulet of natural armor: first, amulets of natural armor are rated from +1 to +5, so you can't have an amulet of natural armor +8. Caps like this fall under the "no such thing as epic items" rule (this would also apply for stat boosting items, etc). However, it is an enhancement bonus, and people are correct in stating that it would stack with actual natural armor, such as that provided by an evolution.

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