So the recent errata from Paizo has screwed up Crane wing and Crane riposte. I don't know whether it will be fixed in any way, but it kinda messes with my planned progression of this character. I guess snake style might work better... would need to pump up my Sense Motive, though.
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Disregard that errata for the purposes of this game. Use the old versions of the entire Crane Style chain.
I'm scratching my head about that errata, it really makes no sense to me. First off, RAW at this moment with the errata, Crane Riposte does not function. You have to be using the total defense action to deflect an attack, but you can't make attacks of opportunity while using the total defense action. Sloppy, sloppy work. I have much higher expectations of Paizo material - hopefully a rough draft got pushed as final or some other cock up.
Secondly, I don't see where Crane Style needed a nerf. Yes, Crane Wing is a very powerful feat; there's no denying that. A feat chain that requires an investment of four feats (five for non-monks) had damn better well be powerful.
Consider who's supposed to be taking Crane Style: Monks. The core monk was a pitiful, underpowered class with very, very little going for it. Style feats from Ultimate Combat really brought the Monk class up to speed and turned a rather boring class into something flavorful, powerful, and interesting. One of the major problems with monks is their MAD nature: They need strength for offense, dexterity for defense, consitution to survive melee combat, wisdom for defense and special attacks. Stacking DEX and WIS to make the monk even remotely survivable meant neglecting STR. Monks ended up being squishier and doing less in combat than other martials (fear my 1d6+2 damage on 3/4 BAB! Pay no attention to the fighter with a greatsword doing 2d6+8 power attacks at first level!).
Crane Style is a great fix for this problem. A Crane Style monk can just put DEX at 13 and get on with life. Gaining +4 AC for fighting defensively keeps the armor class decent, and the one negated attack per round lets the monk hang with the front liners and be a legitimate martial class.
People sure do seem to have a hateboner for that feat chain, though. My local PFS venture-captain's going to be overjoyed at this ruling, he never misses an opportunity to b#+!$ about how overpowered Crane Wing is. FSM forbid that martial classes get to have anything good. That thread on the general forum is filled with PFS GMs taunting LOL I DRINK UR TEARS MONKS GOT TROLLED HARD, including several posters that I used to hold in high regard.
Well, it means that everyone who was previously taking Crane style will take snake style instead, because it still offers significant defensive abilities. Sense motive to AC is pretty cool.
Thanks for letting me use the old version for the time being. It is greatly appreciated.
This so called Real Life is troublesome...
Why don't we go Southeast, then, folks? Then we circle around the kobold's lair and travel west, cause we just left Oleg's...
Let's keep a lookout for the Stag Lord's base of operations while we go Southeast. We may not want to attack now, but knowing where it is will help out (if it's even near there).
Good with me as well. Sorry I'm a little less present, school has kicked off for me too and I just started a 3rd PFS table and a new scenario... now I just got a call about an in-person game on Sunday. I'm a bit busy!
Still wondering where that potion-maker the kobolds told us about is... a source of healing magic closer than Restov would be helpful. If he's a druid or a nature-domain cleric he'll probably know lots about the area.
Sounds good.
Regarding Loot all we have to sell is the Houdn's collar, worth 150 gp. Idris, are you telling us about the certificate of deposit? Or did you forget that?
Maja, what are you going to do with the bow?
Bought 15 days' worth of food. Is it ok folks? We have an extra horse to carry more, if you want to...
Ah I forgot. Idris would certainly have told the others, duplicity is not her thing at all. Not sure we can use it without returning to Rostov however.
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What about the kobolds Idris?
That they exist, for one thing, and where they are, and that they're the ones who want to trade, and that we agreed to let them have the hex they occupy as their own territory.
Oh, didn't we say anything the first time?
Also, we have seven +1 Flaming arrows, if you are making that shot...
Did we spread them out among the party? I forgot about them.
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No one claimed them. But I didn't sell them, since we could use in situations like this. I'm a shortbow user so I don't really keep them. Take some or all of them.
If the heavy horse we bought before didn't have combat training, it would make sense to go with the one who has it.
It doesn't. We didn't have much money at the time.
Nice conversing! I really like the way we're starting to identify some of the ideals that we want to serve as foundation for the nation we build. I thought we might continue the conversation a bit on the ooc side.
Probably still a bit early, but I wondered if we might discuss this bit from the Players Guide:
Once your party begins building a nation in Kingmaker, each PC can take on the role of a leader in that nation. As a leader, you’ll be able to apply one of your character’s ability score modifiers to the kingdom’s Economy, Loyalty, or Stability, increasing the kingdom’s statistics and helping its chances for success. Most leadership roles allow you to choose one of two ability scores to apply, so if you’re particularly interested in having your character play a specific role among the kingdom’s leadership, consider focusing on an appropriate ability score. The 11 leadership roles and their associated ability scores are listed below.
Ruler: Charisma
Councilor: Wisdom or Charisma
General: Strength or Charisma
Grand Diplomat: Intelligence or Charisma
High Priest: Wisdom or Charisma
Magister: Intelligence or Charisma
Marshal: Dexterity or Wisdom
Royal Assassin: Strength or Dexterity
Spymaster: Dexterity or Intelligence
Treasurer: Intelligence or Wisdom
Warden: Strength or Constitution
I guess we double up on these roles with someone taking 3? As a player, my strengths would lie in the Diplomatic/Ruler vein, but do we feel that Sera's burgeoning Draconic traits will be a problem for anyone? She could probably resort to magical disguise once she really gets scaly and starts sporting features like horns and wings. *grin*
But then again I sort of got the idea that we wanted to settle into a place where we don't apologize for what we are, and expect to be respected on our own terms. What do you all think?Also, I notice some possible issues, like no one with high Str to support roles like General. If I do go Dragon Disciple, Sera would probably be the best candidate for that role too, but I'm not a good war-games style tactician at all. =/
Is this just a numbers game, or is the General responsible for leading the armies? Can the other players help?
We can have NPC's take over for some of the jobs, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should accept everybody for what they are/(want to be) that would be the best way in my opinion.
Also most of those can key off either a mental or physical ability the only one I see a problem with is Warden being strength or constituiton, so an NPC would probably be best there.
I believe we can indicate other NPCs for some jobs, Sera. So we would not double function for long, but only as necessary.
Pretty doesn't think the appearance is requirement for anything, so you would be a better leader/diplomat then other people.
I'm inclined towards Treasurer/Spymaster, although I believe we're far away from that point, yet.
I don't think anybody can hold more than one position at a time, and I think that we can all help each other out if we need it with whatever job we are currently doing.
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The kingdom rules can be found Here. I might be making changes to the magic item economy system.
A person can only fill one position at a time. NPCs can fill vacant positions.
Mass combat is a numbers game, as written. Each army has a statblock and combat is resolved by throwing down d20s until one side's had enough. Only very basic tactical decisions are made (Are we aggressive? Digging in and holding the line? Neutral?). The leader's contributions are a flat bonus to the rolls.
There are a number of more detailed wargame systems for more in-depth combat, should we be interested. In that case, a Profession: Soldier check could be used to gain tactical insight.
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It is my pleasure to inform you that you have reached the third level of experience.
The following feat is now available to Maja:
You've made contact with a representative of your deity, who has reinforced your unusual beliefs and charged you with a quest.
Earned from: Redeeming the Temple of the Elk.
Benefit: Your separatist domain no longer functions at level, wisdom, and charisma two lower than normal. Instead, your separatist domain functions as if your level, wisdom, and charisma were two higher than normal. This does not grant early access to your domain's higher-level power, but does increase its potency and uses per day. In addition, your Cleric and Paladin levels stack when determining the effects of your domain powers, channel energy, and lay on hands.
Man Erastil is not that friendly of a fellow.
EDIT: Ninja and level up!
Paladin levels? Whoa whoa!
LVL 3
+1 FC=6
skills +6
K Arcana +1
K History +1
K Nobility +1
K Religion +1
Linguistics +1
Spellcraft +1
Fort +1
Reflex +1
Language Learned: Undercommon
Spells Per Day
2nd: +1
Spells Known
2nd: +2 (Glitterdust, Mirror Image)
Feat: Craft Wondrous Item
That's really interesting! But Pretty is sad since we're not going to have much throat slaying around... T_T Jk!
Pretty's Third Level:
Class: Rogue (knifemaster 3)
+1con+1fc=10 (28 total
Favored Class: +1HP
BAB: +1 (+2 total)
Saves: +1 Will/Fort
Skill points: 11 [+1 Acrobatics(3), +1 Bluff(3), +1 K.Religion(1), +2 K.Dungeoneering(3), +1 Linguistics(2), +1 Perception(3), +2 Sense Motive(3), +1 Stealth(3), +1 Survival(1)]
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting
Ability: Blade Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a knife master is so skilled in combat involving light blades that she gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made against her with light blades. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels, to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces trap sense.
Sneak Attack +2d8/2d4
My suggestion is go for that second paladin level, and get LoH.
There is so much awesome in the second paladin level, notably Charisma to all saves and swift action heals. Well worth it.
So, this is where I really need to decide where to go forward. A level of Monk is a certainty here, but the question is do I take crane style and crane wing and be defensive, or snake style and snake fang and go for the counterattacks? Or go completely against the stereotype and use Sohei or something?
Well, Ramage has been kind enough to let me use the pre-errata version of Crane Wing, and it would be ungrateful of me to ignore this. I also want to make sure he knows that I do plan to take some of the custom feats that have been made available, I just have to take certain ones to enable entry to the Aldori Swordlord prestige class.
Skills -- this will give me a chance to really shore up some of Idris's weaknesses.
+1 to acrobatics
+1 to knowlege(religion) to reflect what she has been learning about Erastil from Maja and the Kobolds, as well as what she's learned in battle about undead.
+1 to linguistics -- hopefully we can say Pretty and Kivan have been teaching her some Draconic so she can speak to the kobolds directly.
+1 to perception
+1 to ride
+1 to sense motive
In addition, a number of skills are now class skills from the monk level, which makes her much better at acrobatics, stealth, and perception than she was before!
Feat: Crane Style
Bonus Feat: Crane Wing
When fighting defensively, she takes only a -2 to attacks, and a +4 to AC.
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Don't worry, I won't feel rebuffed if story feats go un-taken. They're just an option, albeit an option that I try to make slightly more powerful than regular feats. Especially for the martial classes, feat selection tends to be pretty tight until the character build is well-established. I'm toying with a house rule that makes power attack and combat expertise basic abilities available to anyone, to cut down of martial feat taxes.
Are you taking the Master of Many Styles archetype, or just vanilla monk? I personally would dip two levels. It won't hurt your BAB any more than one level of monk would, and you gain a bonus style feat and +1 to all saves out of it. You also have full armor proficiency from your fighter levels, so there's no reason not to wear the iconic black spiked plate that Gorum's followers favor. All it costs you from monk abilities are flurry, move speed bonus, and wisdom bonus to AC. The move speed bonus doesn't kick in until monk level three, MoMS trades away flurry, and the +1 wisdom AC boost you'd get pales beside full plate.
Also, may I point out that the Aldori Swordlord prestige class is pretty bad? It has a very heavy feat list requirement, and dex-fighting is subpar. Although the presitge class allows you to apply your dex bonus to damage, it explicitly denies you the 1.5x damage from using the sword two handed. The other features key off of performance combat and negating melee criticals, which is meh.
Now, the Aldori Swordlord fighter archetype is super solid. Taking the archetype instead of the prestige class allows you to not have Dazzling Display and Weapon Finesse, freeing those up for other feats. You do lose Dueling Mastery a bonus feat, which hurts, but there's no reason you couldn't take it normally. The fighter archetype gets the same Defensive Parry AC bonus as the prestige class does, and in fact they stack should you use the archetype to qualify for the prestige class.
The main reason I'd go for the archetype is the 7th level ability, which will let you fight defensively with no penalty for +6 dodge bonus to AC, and the 11th level ability that gives you a free AoO against foes that hit you. The disarm synergy is pretty nice too. With the heavy scabbard combat trick, you can even disarm your foe and stuff their sword in your scabbard, then proceed to totally punk them.
It's worth noting that the archetype will get you weapon training at 9th level, where fighter4/monk1/aldori swordlord X won't get you weapon training at all.
So to sum it up, you'd fight with the aldori dueling sword two-handed on your turn, doing damaging disarms to those who need it, and switch to a one handed grip after your attacks. You'd be fighting defensively (+6 AC) in mithril full plate (+9 AC, +3 dex bonus) for AC 28 before any magical gear. Adding amulet of natural armor, enchanting the plate, shield bonus from dueling mastery or an animated shield, you'd quickly reach nigh-unhittable AC levels. If an attack does get through, you negate it with crane wing and counterattack. If a second one gets through, you counterattack it too. You'd be hard as all hell to knock out, and doing great damage with your two-handed power attacks too.
Just rambling! If that looks interesting to you you can do a character rebuild. I can't link the archetype and prestige class because d20pfsrd is blocked at work.
I don't know what to say about your build Idris, I just am not into Crane Stuff, then I better not say anything to make your life more confused. ^_^
Monk level is MoMS, yes. The fighter levels are already Aldori swordlord archetype, but they aren't having an effect yet.
I really want to keep a high Dex on Idris as it suits my image of the character. The Aldori Swordlord prestige class is something I'd take at most 2 levels in, possibly just one. It wouldn't give me the damage of a two-handed weapon strength fighter, but I think it'll do alright.
I definitely plan to have heavier armor in the future, with spikes on, but heavy plate would not allow use of the dexterity she will have by then. Final long-term armor will be Celestial Armor, unless celestial plate is available.
Please order two of that celestial armor ^_^
Boy, a weekend away and you miss a lot! I have some priority homework I have to finish and then I will work on level up! ^_^
I'm bad at thinking long-term with a build, but I get the idea that if I want to go Dragon Disciple, I better have a handle on what I want to do well so I'm taking some time to look over it thoroughly. I'm possibly considering taking a drawback for another trait, maybe a level of bard at some point, still thinking. =/
What is the top-end level we expect to reach before we exhaust the AP?