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For the longest time, ive been wanting to run a game that goes from level 1 to level 20+, one that allows characters to grow and build up their powers. And, as a DM, id be able to use those big, massive, high tier CRs that are just mind blowing!
but
time waits for no man.
So i decided to say screw it. I am going to pull the trigger now.
Are you, the reader, interested in doing an epic level encounter, fighting against a creature who's CR is 20+? Perhaps save that princess from the Great Red Wyrm? A demon lord? the dreaded Tarrasque?
My research into epic levels for pathfinder is 1) there arent any rules, but we go by mythic rules. 2) there was this dude who made some PF1e epic homebrew rules based off of 3.0/3.5 epic level handbook, but the link is dead, so i dont have the pdf he created, however it cannot be that difficult to say "hey, just default to the 3.0/3.5 ELH rules"
I will admit, i am very, very, very rusty with the high tier rules, the abilities and capabilities, the potentials. This is considered the heads up that i will probably make mistakes.
I'd be interested. Monkeygod did something like this recently. We haven't gotten the fight going yet but he used mythic and epic and since the characters were level 30 he also allowed just continuing on with 10 levels of something. EG: Fighter 20, Ranger 10. Oh and it was gestalt. Come up with the rules you want to use and people will probably show up.
Definitely sounds interesting.
Ditto. Epic sounds fun!
Who summoned me?!?
Epic rules?!? PF1e?!? **Definitely** interested!!
As Trawets said above, I am currently running something like this as well, but ya know, I wanna play too!! Lol
And I have a lot of resources I can offer to help both my fellow PCs and the GM!
So, I am interested. The only thing that worries me is that 1e has many ways to make broken characters, even without losing flavor and uniqueness. So, when the power level is turned up to eleven, I keep thinking some characters will outshine others, like in a Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit kind of way.
Hopefully it wouldn't be quite that bad.
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The problem is not only about power level. I've seen in many of these ultra powerful games options where all characters are so versatile where each one can do everything.
This is specially true when you start going beyond gestalt, like templates, monsters as PCs, tri-state tristalt and so on.
Mythic on itself is mostly broken.
Wrath is obviously designed for this type of game, so maybe Wrath with fast track XP so we will end up 20+ at the end, which in turn will in a way help with planning as its a written module
The problem is not only about power level. I've seen in many of these ultra powerful games options where all characters are so versatile where each one can do everything.
This is specially true when you start going beyond gestalt, like templates, monsters as PCs, tri-state tristalt and so on.
Mythic on itself is mostly broken.
This is actually fine, I think, and even part of the proposal, I would guess. I would have fun if all players are uber powerful, and monsters have their stats uber bloated as well as DCs. My only concern is what I said before.
I am not necessarily interested in playing (but I reserve the right to change my mind) but will note having recently run a brief, high level (not epic) campaign...
I suck at designing encounters myself--this I know. I am better at it than I used to be and always appreciate practicing. Higher power levels however bring in an extra curveball where you can bring in what seems to be absolutely an appropriate encounter for the PCs, and they will either mow through it in a single round, or it nearly destroys them in same. In other words, weirdly, it becomes, like 1st level, heavily dependent on the dice. Everyone has ridiculous bonuses so it all comes down to what you roll. Initiative matters more than ever as well.
I say this not as discouragement but just as a factor to consider and, especially as you may be much better at encounter design than I am, you may well find ways to either address this or just make it a feature rather than a potential bug.
Additional unsolicited advice:
1. Boredom and complacency is often the enemy of RPGs, but especially at high power levels. And weirdly, it is easy to get bored at high power levels. The PCs can literally go anywhere and do anything, and the novelty of that can wear off very quickly. So GM flexibility is valuable and player proactivity--a willingness to engage in the story and make your own story--is an absolute necessity. Ironically, the flipside of this is that, sometimes when done right high level play can lead to some of the best storytelling because people are just doing what they want to do and dig into the RP and narrative of it all, especially when effectively dice aren't needed to confirm success (because bonuses are so high). A high level game where players just expect to be led around on a leash and won't interact or find their own path won't work because the GM just ends up playing the game by themselves until a PC decides to roll a die and blast away that one obstacle, and then back to the routine. TL;DR: Be flexible and recruit engaged, proactive players.
2. Death really shouldn't be an issue at this level so overly cautious players can also kill a game trying to avoid a death that, indeed, may be likely with a poor die roll, but can also be easily resolved. The temporary nature of death at high levels means that death should be seen by players and GMs alike as a plot opportunity, not a threat.
3. Use Combat Manager or other software to help keep track of what's happening during combat, since high level monsters have eleventy-billion abilities (many often unique ones), and that's before you get to what the PCs can potentially do. Moreso for mythic tiers, since there's that one mythic ability that alters action economy.
4. There are some suuuper cool ultra high CR monsters in the later Bestiaries. This isn't advice, just an expression of excitement they could get used.
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This is actually fine, I think, and even part of the proposal, I would guess. I would have fun if all players are uber powerful, and monsters have their stats uber bloated as well as DCs. My only concern is what I said before.The problem is not only about power level. I've seen in many of these ultra powerful games options where all characters are so versatile where each one can do everything.
This is specially true when you start going beyond gestalt, like templates, monsters as PCs, tri-state tristalt and so on.
Mythic on itself is mostly broken.
My point is that this is still a collaborative game at its heart and it needs to be to be successful. If every player can do anything, and I mean in terms of solving any situation on their own, they do not necessarily need their teammates, which is bad IMO.
Take the old school team of four players, a fighter, a cleric, a wizard and a rogue (just as an example, because multiple formations are possible and some games might not need one or two roles). Each one has a function in the party and this helps the teamplayer aspect of the game. Now, if the fighter can do everything the rogue can and vice versa, now we have two players "competing" do to stuff. Depending on the amount of options, you can have four players capable of doing the four example roles above.
Considering the nature of PBP where not all players are online at the same time, this is specially troublesome. In a low-powered game, if the GM produces a "knowledge challenge" and the mage is not around, the others need to wait for the mage to post, but in a high-powered game, the first person to reply might be able to solve it... thus, if one player is in a different time zone that allows others to post before them consistently, then this particular player will feel "useless" most of the time, even with ultra-powered characters.
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So my concern isn't about power level, but instead of too much versatility of each character so they can solve problems on their own all the time.
I'm potentially interested. I would note that for those of us who build in HeroLab, which I think is a significant subset of us, it won't let you add more than 20 levels of one class. You *can* build characters beyond CR20, but you need to multiclass, use templates, monster levels, etc. Unless someone knows about a mod I don't (do tell!). Of course, we can build to 20 in HL, then pencil whip it beyond that, but that gets awkward and mistake-prone fast in my experience.
In a way if you start adding gestalt after level 20 you can go beyond 20. It's just HP/Skills that will need to increase manually
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And I have a lot of resources I can offer to help both my fellow PCs and the GM!
Color me intriqued. Care to hit me up by PM?
Hey Rizz! Since it is an interest check, color me interested. I've not built a high level character from scratch, but would certainly be interested in the idea.
Color me intriqued. Care to hit me up by PM?
And I have a lot of resources I can offer to help both my fellow PCs and the GM!
Absolutely! As some have mentioned above, mythic can definitely be used in place of(or in addition to) epic levels.
Should you decide to make use of them at all, even if just for our foes, I would strongly suggest using the mythic rules by Legendary Games. They add a vast amount of options for both PCs and GMs(tons of mythic monsters, all with really cool, unique abilities).
Now, before somebody raises the cry of 'but 3pp is broken! They aren't Paizo!' let me clear up something right quick:
Jason Eric Nelson, the owner of LG and also one of their main writers, was for the longest time(he might still hold that record, lol), the *most* prolific writer for all of PF1e. Yes, even moreso than Jason Bulmhan or James Jacobs.
In fact, I believe he was one of the head writers for Mythic Adventures by Paizo.
He truly is the Man, the Myth(ic), the Legend(ha!) when it comes to Mythic rules.
So, I am interested. The only thing that worries me is that 1e has many ways to make broken characters, even without losing flavor and uniqueness. So, when the power level is turned up to eleven, I keep thinking some characters will outshine others, like in a Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit kind of way.
agreed.
usually i can handle a group 6-7 in size.
but i think with this type of game, itd be best to leave it to 4.
Hey Rizzenmagnus be more than happy to join this game. Could play just about anything -- what kind of characters do you feel this campaign could best use?
I would be VERY interested in an Epic PFe1 game! Even if the character creation takes days of work to accomplish!!
3PP material should be allowed on a case-by-case basis, IMO.
There seems to be a few epics going on at the moment, and this one sounds fun. So color me a dot. :)