Implications of unconscious -> willing

[seebs]

Note: "asleep" is not "unconscious".

Consider spells like, say, seeming or sequester. You can cast these on an unconscious target, and they are automatically willing.

So far as I can tell, if you were "willing" when the spell was cast, you have missed any chance to avoid the effect. This makes seeming a lot more dangerous than I would have thought.

[Starglim]

If the spell text states a different effect on a willing target than an unwilling target, the subject is considered willing. The rule doesn't have any other effect - particularly, it doesn't forego a saving throw or any other defence the spell allows.

Seeming can change the appearance of a creature whether it is willing or not. If it's unconscious, it doesn't get a saving throw or spell resistance when the spell is cast. edit: If it wakes up and decides it's unwilling, matters become interesting. A target usually gets one saving throw against a spell, but I don't see that it has to make the save when the spell is cast, if something changes later so that it qualifies. In fact protection from evil, for one, grants a saving throw against a spell after it has been cast.

Sequester can be cast on an unconscious creature. It won't wake up during the spell's duration. Obviously a hostile wizard could do other things to an enemy who's unconscious in the wizard's reach out of sight of its allies.

[wraithstrike]

That is not exactly how it work. I think only harmless spells work that way. There was a thread on it. If not I will check the rules and break it down a little later on.

[wraithstrike]

I found it. That part about always willing is referring to spells such as Teleport that call out willing creatures.

Quote:

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

It starts out how saying how some spells restrict you to willing targets. Then it goes on to say how you can be willing at any time. It then goes on to say that if you are unconscious you are automatically considered to be willing for these spells.

[Odraude]

Man, the title of this had me very scared when I read it...

[spalding]

It had me going, "Ah gee, not this crap again."

BUT at least people are actually starting to read the magic section.

[Anguish]

In game terms, it's in the player's favor to have a character who is unable to make decisions "willing". Yes, there's the occasional case where an enemy might take advantage of that. On the other hand, if you want to take advantage of healing, escape magic, and anything else beneficial your party members might do to you, you need to be willing. Game design 101.

[seebs]

I would argue that the fact that protection from evil says it gives new saves implies that new saves are a thing you have to be granted by the text. My read is that the "willing" thing applies not only to spells that are entirely restricted to willing targets, but to anything that says something like "unwilling creatures can negate the spell's effects with a save".

If the spell doesn't have any special language about willing creatures, obviously you get a save, and you have to intentionally forego the save to not have one. But if there's special language saying something about willing, unconscious creatures are willing.