Revelations of the Dragon Empires (Tian Xia World Guide AMA)


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Starlit Sentinels are in the Character Guide, not the World Guide.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do we get more info on Sun Wukong?


Eldritch Yodel wrote:
Starlit Sentinels are in the Character Guide, not the World Guide.

Yes, I know the mechanics are, but since sometimes archetypes are also in universe organizations or specific ways of being empowered, I was wondering if there was lore about historic Sentinels or myths about them or suchlike. And it seemed likely that any rewriting/expanding of the dragon empire zodiac would be in this book as well.


I find it a little odd they don’t have population numbers next to the capital cities…


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VerBeeker wrote:
I find it a little odd they don’t have population numbers next to the capital cities…

Could be because people have been teasing Paizo, and D&D 3.5 before them, about it for about twenty years at this point.


VerBeeker wrote:
I find it a little odd they don’t have population numbers next to the capital cities…

Are those in any other Lost Omens book? I don't recall many hard population numbers in 2e.


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I think it's best to avoid that anyways, I don't know that I've ever seen a fantasy city population number that didn't have people doing math about how it couldn't possibly be that number and result in the city functioning. What's that writing advice about never giving a solid number if you don't have to?


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Has General Susumu's holy weapon been changed to a daikyu, or is he still stuck with a longbow despite you not actually being able to use one while riding a mount?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I assume the timeline dates are in the Imperial Calender. Are they given with the AR equivalents, or do we need to calculate those ourselves if we are making a grand timeline of everything?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FallenDabus wrote:
I assume the timeline dates are in the Imperial Calender. Are they given with the AR equivalents, or do we need to calculate those ourselves if we are making a grand timeline of everything?

I did not see any AR equivalents, though I imagine the notation is explained early on in the book.


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keftiu wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:
I find it a little odd they don’t have population numbers next to the capital cities…
Are those in any other Lost Omens book? I don't recall many hard population numbers in 2e.

Yes, most of them. Definitely all of the major regional guides so far.


Ravingdork wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
I assume the timeline dates are in the Imperial Calender. Are they given with the AR equivalents, or do we need to calculate those ourselves if we are making a grand timeline of everything?
I did not see any AR equivalents, though I imagine the notation is explained early on in the book.

Do they go into detail at all about the Imperial Calendar?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jamie Steier wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
I assume the timeline dates are in the Imperial Calender. Are they given with the AR equivalents, or do we need to calculate those ourselves if we are making a grand timeline of everything?
I did not see any AR equivalents, though I imagine the notation is explained early on in the book.
Do they go into detail at all about the Imperial Calendar?

The only mention of "Imperial Calendar" is in the Glossary.

Glossary wrote:
Imperial Calendar The most commonly used calendar in Tian Xia, consisting of 52 weeks across 12 months. The current year is 7224 ic.

Wayfinders

The Imperial Calendar was explained in the Travel Guide:

Quote:


The Imperial Calendar (IC): While not the only calendar in Tian Xia, the Imperial Calendar is the most commonly used and begins with the founding of Yixing, the first human empire on the continent.

(In turn that year was -2499 AR, so you can kinda orient other dates around those.)


RiverMesa wrote:

The Imperial Calendar was explained in the Travel Guide:

Quote:


The Imperial Calendar (IC): While not the only calendar in Tian Xia, the Imperial Calendar is the most commonly used and begins with the founding of Yixing, the first human empire on the continent.
(In turn that year was -2499 AR, so you can kinda orient other dates around those.)

Ya, it was more for month names and all of that. I created a whole calendar system for my Season of Ghosts game I run and was hoping there was something that I could've looked at later and verified. Oh well, part of the fun I suppose of fantasy games!


keftiu wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:
I find it a little odd they don’t have population numbers next to the capital cities…
Are those in any other Lost Omens book? I don't recall many hard population numbers in 2e.

All that I can remember.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RiverMesa wrote:
The Imperial Calendar was explained in the Travel Guide.

LOL. I guess that's one way to try and get people to buy Paizo's cookbook.


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Ravingdork wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
The Imperial Calendar was explained in the Travel Guide.
LOL. I guess that's one way to try and get people to buy Paizo's cookbook.

Recipes were a handful of sidebars in a book filled with setting lore (my favorite being an overview of international trade routes) and lovely art . This feels like a really strange potshot to take at it.


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Jinin had some interesting commentary when one considers the Drow situation.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Travel Guide is awesome. Probably one of my favorite 2E books so far. Then again, I'm a huge nerd for the lore of settings.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
The Imperial Calendar was explained in the Travel Guide.
LOL. I guess that's one way to try and get people to buy Paizo's cookbook.
Recipes were a handful of sidebars in a book filled with setting lore (my favorite being an overview of international trade routes) and lovely art . This feels like a really strange potshot to take at it.

Nobody I know in person (outside of myself) has bothered picking up the Travel Guide due to its lack of mechanical options. The recipes and clothing styles and the like are pretty neat and fun, but they're the kinds of things my friends look up on the wiki, not buy a whole book for (at least, not a game book).

The Travel Guide also seemed pretty Inner Sea focused to me, so I'm not sure why anyone's first thought for Tian Xia calendar information would be the Travel Guide. Paizo really should have put that calendar information in the Tian Xia book as well. Without it, I'm sure numerous people aren't going to know what that notation means or how it coincides with Golarion's more Western calendar systems.


Are there systems to play into Xianxia style characters? (Cultivation, enlightened martial arts etc?).

For a quick definition Xianxia is Immortal Hero to Wuxia Martial Hero, in media Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Forbidden Kingdom are arguably lower end Xianxia.


Tremaine wrote:

Are there systems to play into Xianxia style characters? (Cultivation, enlightened martial arts etc?).

For a quick definition Xianxia is Immortal Hero to Wuxia Martial Hero, in media Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Forbidden Kingdom are arguably lower end Xianxia.

That would all be Character Guide stuff, out in a few more months.


keftiu wrote:
Tremaine wrote:

Are there systems to play into Xianxia style characters? (Cultivation, enlightened martial arts etc?).

For a quick definition Xianxia is Immortal Hero to Wuxia Martial Hero, in media Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Forbidden Kingdom are arguably lower end Xianxia.

That would all be Character Guide stuff, out in a few more months.

Thanks. Here's hoping then.


From a preview I heard that TXWG includes a set of core assumptions--a sort of recalibration for those whose default instincts are more based in Western cultures and fantasy tropes.

1. Celestials Are Not Always Good
2. Appearances Are Deceiving
3. Dragons Are Not Monsters
4. Spirits Are Not Abstract
5. The Dead Are Never Truly Gone

I was wondering what people thought about these? Suffice to say, reading into possible implications of these has my brain a little bit on fire right now. While I gather that the meta explanation for this list is "This is the Fantasy Asia continent, it would be weird if we didn't have Asian Fantasy tropes" but casting rationality aside, the in-world explanations, if there even are any, could offer ripe ground for baseless speculation.

I don't have the full context of what each bullet is supposed to mean (perhaps someone blessed in the pdf department will deign to share) but so far I have gathered...
- "Celestial" may mean a creature from heaven, but they're not flawless beings, and even celestials can be people, too.
- So many creatures on this continent shapeshift.
- You don't go around slaying treasure-hoarding dragons on this continent. Those dragons are sages and advisors.
- Spirits are commonplace and tend to have specific and tangible forms in Tian Xia.
- This is only an educated guess, but I suspect #5 is about the comparative prevalence of reincarnation and Sangpotshi.

Dark Archive

Please tell me how things are going in Nagajor? Are there any changes or maybe events described in the book?


Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

From a preview I heard that TXWG includes a set of core assumptions--a sort of recalibration for those whose default instincts are more based in Western cultures and fantasy tropes.

1. Celestials Are Not Always Good
2. Appearances Are Deceiving
3. Dragons Are Not Monsters
4. Spirits Are Not Abstract
5. The Dead Are Never Truly Gone

I was wondering what people thought about these? Suffice to say, reading into possible implications of these has my brain a little bit on fire right now. While I gather that the meta explanation for this list is "This is the Fantasy Asia continent, it would be weird if we didn't have Asian Fantasy tropes" but casting rationality aside, the in-world explanations, if there even are any, could offer ripe ground for baseless speculation.

I don't have the full context of what each bullet is supposed to mean (perhaps someone blessed in the pdf department will deign to share) but so far I have gathered...
- "Celestial" may mean a creature from heaven, but they're not flawless beings, and even celestials can be people, too.
- So many creatures on this continent shapeshift.
- You don't go around slaying treasure-hoarding dragons on this continent. Those dragons are sages and advisors.
- Spirits are commonplace and tend to have specific and tangible forms in Tian Xia.
- This is only an educated guess, but I suspect #5 is about the comparative prevalence of reincarnation and Sangpotshi.

Number 5 is also likely a reference to systems of ancestral veneration, so it probably works on a symbolic as well as literal sense. Then again, with magic existing, it could also very well be literal. We've already seen a couple ancestors-turned-tutelary-spirits in Book of the Dead with the Iruxi Ossature and potentially Iroran Mummy. Seeing more undead along those lines would be really cool.

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.


I’m kind of surprised with the handful of name changes, Kwanlai remains the same with the lore given within the book.

Liberty's Edge

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

From a preview I heard that TXWG includes a set of core assumptions--a sort of recalibration for those whose default instincts are more based in Western cultures and fantasy tropes.

1. Celestials Are Not Always Good
2. Appearances Are Deceiving
3. Dragons Are Not Monsters
4. Spirits Are Not Abstract
5. The Dead Are Never Truly Gone

I was wondering what people thought about these? Suffice to say, reading into possible implications of these has my brain a little bit on fire right now. While I gather that the meta explanation for this list is "This is the Fantasy Asia continent, it would be weird if we didn't have Asian Fantasy tropes" but casting rationality aside, the in-world explanations, if there even are any, could offer ripe ground for baseless speculation.

I don't have the full context of what each bullet is supposed to mean (perhaps someone blessed in the pdf department will deign to share) but so far I have gathered...
- "Celestial" may mean a creature from heaven, but they're not flawless beings, and even celestials can be people, too.
- So many creatures on this continent shapeshift.
- You don't go around slaying treasure-hoarding dragons on this continent. Those dragons are sages and advisors.
- Spirits are commonplace and tend to have specific and tangible forms in Tian Xia.
- This is only an educated guess, but I suspect #5 is about the comparative prevalence of reincarnation and Sangpotshi.

I feel we are getting the concept that the spiritual world and the material world are much closer in Tian Xia than they are in the Inner Sea.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Kind of disappointed they didn't change Yamatsumi's favored weapon back to tetsubo or at least offer it as an alternative to greatclub since it already got spoiled via the oni entry in monster core.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Perpdepog wrote:

[Elfteiroh: SNIP to keep only what I'm directly replying to]

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.

To note, it was already a core assumption of the whole Lost Omen setting. There have been a couple of non-evil fiends, and some celestials NPCs in APs that were evil without losing the "celestial" trait. So here it's more of a reiteration IMHO.

There's even a whole city in the maelstrom for planar people that had the "wrong" alignment, Basrakal.


Elfteiroh wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:

[Elfteiroh: SNIP to keep only what I'm directly replying to]

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.

To note, it was already a core assumption of the whole Lost Omen setting. There have been a couple of non-evil fiends, and some celestials NPCs in APs that were evil without losing the "celestial" trait. So here it's more of a reiteration IMHO.

There's even a whole city in the maelstrom for planar people that had the "wrong" alignment, Basrakal.

Oh I am aware of Basrakal; it's probably my favorite extra-planar settlement in the entire setting. Those are all individualized exceptions, though, singular celestials or fiends who break away from the generally accepted way they behave and do their own thing.

The way these assumptions of Tian Xia are described makes me think it is more systemic than that, like the institutions--for lack of a better word off the top of my head--for celestials are less concerned with the overt Holy/Unholy struggle going on, or rather they care about it in different ways. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the book to see how that plays out in text.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Also, just noticed when comparing Jin Li's entry between LO:F & TXWG side-by-side. Did he get a stealthrata? In Firebrands his granted Cleric spells are 1st: Jump, 4th: Hydraulic Torrent, and 6th: Dragon Form. Contrasting with TXWG's version which swaps the 6th rank spell for 3rd: Feet To Fins.


My universal rule is to ignore all Firebrands content.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
My universal rule is to ignore all Firebrands content.

Any particular reasoning as to why though?

Liberty's Edge

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Perpdepog wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:

[Elfteiroh: SNIP to keep only what I'm directly replying to]

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.

To note, it was already a core assumption of the whole Lost Omen setting. There have been a couple of non-evil fiends, and some celestials NPCs in APs that were evil without losing the "celestial" trait. So here it's more of a reiteration IMHO.

There's even a whole city in the maelstrom for planar people that had the "wrong" alignment, Basrakal.

Oh I am aware of Basrakal; it's probably my favorite extra-planar settlement in the entire setting. Those are all individualized exceptions, though, singular celestials or fiends who break away from the generally accepted way they behave and do their own thing.

The way these assumptions of Tian Xia are described makes me think it is more systemic than that, like the institutions--for lack of a better word off the top of my head--for celestials are less concerned with the overt Holy/Unholy struggle going on, or rather they care about it in different ways. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the book to see how that plays out in text.

I hope it will not be Law vs Chaos with a different name and with a guise of the Tian Xia equivalent to Unholy/Holy. With Law being Holy on top.


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HenshinFanatic wrote:
Also, just noticed when comparing Jin Li's entry between LO:F & TXWG side-by-side. Did he get a stealthrata? In Firebrands his granted Cleric spells are 1st: Jump, 4th: Hydraulic Torrent, and 6th: Dragon Form. Contrasting with TXWG's version which swaps the 6th rank spell for 3rd: Feet To Fins.

Dragon Form is now on all spell lists, where it wasn't on Divine or Occult before remaster.

(There are some people who believe all of Firebrands is an ontologically evil book because it has two feats that are very powerful but also have extremely obvious solutions to their power level (one doesn't have a usage restriction, one was obviously written under the assumption that Tumble Through is not the only skill action in the game that doesn't require you to actually do the activity to say you're doing the activity).


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I fail to see the relevance of Dragon Form's addition to the Divine spell list. It's not like deities haven't provided spells already on the list before.

And I've gone over the LO:F feats several times after reading this response and I can't seem to see anything that's game breaking. Heck, most of the stuff is too restricted and should be available to all characters, not just rank 2 or higher members of the Firebrands.


Previous examples of gods giving divine spells have been erratas mostly, because it's the same as them just not giving a spell.

The feats are some celebrity gear that can stun and a skull feat that RAW lets you stride twice unconditionally per action without ever having to actually Tumble Through because Tumble Through is written badly.


HenshinFanatic wrote:
I fail to see the relevance of Dragon Form's addition to the Divine spell list. It's not like deities haven't provided spells already on the list before.

Because it's silly. Why is a deity granting you a spell that's already on your list? Yeah, we've seen it before, and that question comes up each time. This could be evidence that Paizo is correcting that issue.


Minkai related item?


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Laclale♪ wrote:
Minkai related item?

Beside some ritual and monster, the book is only lore. For character options (races, archetypes, items...) there is a different book that will be released this summer.

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