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I have noticed a distinct lack of itemization explained in guides, and I often find myself ignoring magical items, but I suppose they are meant to be part of a character's budget. Right now I am playing 2 parallel characters in Pathfinder Society 2E. 1 is a Swashbucklers, 1 is a Sorcerer.
I imagine I may or may not need, at 3rd level, 1 or 2 skill boost items like one which boosts my Acrobatics on the Swashbuckler and Intimidate on my Sorcerer. Is there room for 2? I'd like to be good at diplomacy on my Swashbuckler too.
What about other stuff? Weapon runes for a martial at some point I'm sure. Aeon Stones? I don't know. I don't know what's good, what's good for what class, I've read through many, but how much money am I expected to have? How many magic items at what level?
On my Sorcerer I'd eventually like some scrolls, maybe wands, at least 1 or 2 staves I think, maybe just 1... Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind seem amazing, and the set bonus items seem cool overall.
I just have no idea what's good or how much I ought to have or anything. Maybe because there's so many options. Maybe it's like "Martials get 1 +1 to hit rune at level 3 and 1 skill bonus item and that's it" and Casters get 1 skill items boost and a flex item like that white pearl of healing aeon stone.
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The items that you'll certainly buy on each and every character (but not at the same levels):
- Weapon Potency, Striking and Property Runes (if you use a weapon).
- Armor Potency and Resilient Runes.
- Boots of Bounding.
- Googles of Night.
- Apex Item.
These are the only items you absolutely need as the bonuses are just too important to pass.
Otherwise, you can buy a bit of whatever you want. Skill items are common but unless you use them in combat you can pass. Having a Staff is nice for a caster (you can only have one). Scrolls and Alchemical Items are useful if you have hard time finishing the adventuring days. But nothing is really as important as the list I gave (or very character dependent).
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I'd add flight to that list of required items too. Flight tattoo or cloak of the bat being the main ones. I'd also say a thievery skill item is required if your gm uses traps at all. Ditto for religion/occult/arcane if your gm likes haunts or magic hazards. The DCs on those tend to be pretty high relative to their level.
For staves, the only ones I see are divination (for true strike) and illusion (for illusory object).
Longstrider (2nd) wands and see invisibility (5th) wands also pop up fairly often.
For skill items, mostly diplomacy for one for all and bon mot, performance for bard stuff, athletics if your weapon doesn't cover it.
There are also a couple like the spellhearts that give electric arc (for casters that don't get it natively) or the doorknob (auto-blind on crit), and the helmet that gives +1 AC vs evil creatures that are easy pickups. The mutagen choker that can apply a mutagen on combat start also has its uses (mostly energy mutagens for damage or drakehearts for final surge openers). Ranged builds want bola shot ammo and the occasional elemental ammo. Double slice martials want the alchemical item that lets them add some bomb damage.
That last group is from TV and probably don't show up in older guides.
Mostly though, you can just follow SuperBidi's list and add skill items or some of what I listed as desired. Very few items particularly matter in pf2e so mostly you'll be selling everything you come across to purchase the important stuff on curve or ahead of it if you can manage it.
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I think a good think to look at is what you would get if you used Automatic Bonus Progression rules.
That shows you exactly what things are considered "essential" or "absolutely required". Although you might have to do a little work to find the item that supports the skill boosts, perception boost. Then there are a few items that are so good that they're hard to pass up, such as Boots of Bounding for the speed bonus. Googles of Night is another one, though it is a perception item its more critical function is providing Darkvision for ancestries that don't naturally have it.
Generally speaking for every skill (and also for perception) if you go to the Archives of Nethy's you can go to the skills page (athletics for example) and find a list of items that enhance that skill.
But as far as a list of all items and what are "stand outs"...I don't know that one has been made. And now there are thousands of items which makes it a bit hard to comb through.
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I'd add flight to that list of required items too. Flight tattoo or cloak of the bat being the main ones. I'd also say a thievery skill item is required if your gm uses traps at all. Ditto for religion/occult/arcane if your gm likes haunts or magic hazards. The DCs on those tend to be pretty high relative to their level.
For staves, the only ones I see are divination (for true strike) and illusion (for illusory object).
Longstrider (2nd) wands and see invisibility (5th) wands also pop up fairly often.
For skill items, mostly diplomacy for one for all and bon mot, performance for bard stuff, athletics if your weapon doesn't cover it.
There are also a couple like the spellhearts that give electric arc (for casters that don't get it natively) or the doorknob (auto-blind on crit), and the helmet that gives +1 AC vs evil creatures that are easy pickups. The mutagen choker that can apply a mutagen on combat start also has its uses (mostly energy mutagens for damage or drakehearts for final surge openers). Ranged builds want bola shot ammo and the occasional elemental ammo. Double slice martials want the alchemical item that lets them add some bomb damage.
That last group is from TV and probably don't show up in older guides.
Mostly though, you can just follow SuperBidi's list and add skill items or some of what I listed as desired. Very few items particularly matter in pf2e so mostly you'll be selling everything you come across to purchase the important stuff on curve or ahead of it if you can manage it.
Between the two of you I quite like my lists. Since it's PF2E Society both my characters also get a free Wayfinder with a free Light Cantrip that just works, although also both of my characters have innate Darkvision, so Light isn't an issue for me, I just think it's nice to the humans and such.
That said, I haven't yet gotten to play my Swashbuckler, but I imagine I'd need the Acrobatics and Diplomacy buff in combat because they'll be used, a lot.
Since you already have darkvision, skip the goggles and grab the eye slash tattoo from treasure vault. Same perception bonus, but cheaper and comes online a level earlier. Also doesn't take the eyepiece slot and acts as a hands-free spyglass (but only x4 instead of x8).
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I can tell you some items that I found interesting for a specific character I was making. For clarity, the character was a sprite (fey) fighter with a corgi mount.
Blightbloom Posy - Spellheart affixed to armor for speak with flowers (as speak with plants)
Decanter of endless water
Deteriorating Dust - great for subtly damaging something in public view. Could be good for infiltration.
Fear Gem - increases effect of Intimidating Strike
Fury Cocktail - some strong melee attack bonuses (but it's an item bonus so doesn't stack with runes) but the real benefit is letting me grow in size as the Titanic Yuzu version juice version.
Hat of Disguise
Healer's Gloves
Horn of Fog - especially good with blindsight feat or cat's eye elixir. Similar effect to mistform elixir.
Jar of shifting sands
Predictable silver piece
Sleeves of Storage
Snapleaf
Barding of the Zephyr - I thought there was another item that got animal companions/familiars flight but this is the only one I've found
In this 2e, in my opinion, anything meant to provide action saving is excellent.
Yes. Most characters end up being action starved. Some classes worse than others. But rarely does anyone end their turn without wishing they had an extra action or two.
I would also add that items that give 'add your level even if untrained' are pretty good. They can open up options for the character that otherwise wouldn't be available. They are often very niche use, like the Hat of Disguise. If you need to disguise yourself and are not trained in Deception, the hat is going to be better than the Ventriloquist's Ring by a large margin.
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In this 2e, in my opinion, anything meant to provide action saving is excellent.
To make some examples:
- potion of quickness
- gloves of storing
- indestructible shield
- rune of speed
- scroll of haste
- snapleaf
- staff of divination
- boots of speed
- Healer's gloves
- etc...For combatants, weapon potency/striking runes and extra damage ones ( sonic, force and electric), and then potency/resilient armor runes.
For spellcasters, scrolls are the best deal, since they don't need anything else ( apart from, eventually, potency/resilient armor runes, bonus skill items and staves/wands).
I just want to say, Haste isn't the end all be all it use to be. Since the extra action can only be used for a basic stride(step) or strike and not other actions it's not as attractive as it used to be. So potion of quickness, rune of speed, and scroll of haste are more situational than they use to be. Not to say they're bad, but I'm probably not going to invest in trying to make sure I always have access to haste.
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Like Claxon says: The issue with these items is that they cost you actions to get you actions. And very often the actions they cost you are very valuable ones (primary actions during the first round) compared to those gained (4th actions that are limited in use). You can end up with "less" actions by using a Scroll of Haste than if you hadn't used it. And if you don't have a round to prebuff, it will be the most common outcome for a lot of characters.
A caster won't probably end up not benefitting from the quickened condition, unless a 2 round encounter, which is definitely, definitely, rare.
They will definitely benefit from it, but will also lose from it (2 actions). The net result is a loss. They'd have been better off not casting Haste at all.
In this 2e, in my opinion, anything meant to provide action saving is excellent.
The Gloves of Storing are great though. Because drawing your weapon is an action that you were probably going to use anyway at the start of battle. So getting that as a free action instead frees up another general purpose action that you can use for whatever else you want during that first round of combat.
And that is the intent of the guidance here. The high number of Haste producing items in the example list is a bit beside the point.
A caster won't probably end up not benefitting from the quickened condition, unless a 2 round encounter, which is definitely, definitely, rare.They will definitely benefit from it, but will also lose from it (2 actions). The net result is a loss. They'd have been better off not casting Haste at all.
Yes, Haste has, thankfully, become situational.
It's wonderful to move and place those 3-action battlefield control spells (or Whirlwind Strike) in the perfect spot, yet did you just lose a round casting another spell/drinking/not attacking to make that happen? Or in this battle was it indeed worth it or necessary due to danger?Yet as is often the case with buffs, maybe it'd have been better coming from somebody else so that the results hit sooner.
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As for the OP, the answer to the question would be whatever magic items let you do what you do better. That's the easy half, as the other half is to be able to do what you'll need to be able to do, but can't. Example, breathe underwater in an emergency, except that's so situational, those answers depend on both the campaign and what your party members can cover. In PFS, a lot of that can be solved w/ the free allotment at the beginning of scenarios.
So for basics, like surviving violence and hitting back, as mentioned you should keep in line with the ABP/default items progression, including in your primary skills, like if you're the Diplomacy or Thievery specialist. That's so you can tackle at-level obstacles. Then, being as it's PFS, there can often be under-level obstacles there for narrative sake where the party's meant to bypass easily, yet if nobody can do it, it hurts. For these you might get the +1 item about when a specialist might get a +2 (and that +1 costs a trivial amount). Consumables can cover this okay too, and is where those "free item-X for a day" or "surprise item/spell from your resources" abilities can shine.
Then for tertiary or esoteric activities, a consumable becomes fine, often many levels below yourself as at-level is just too expensive.
(And one can see the utility of an Alchemist in all this, though prepared full casters can master this too.)
I appreciate in PF2 that other than the raw numbers from weapons, armor, & Apex items, there are no must-have items, though there are must-solve problems, i.e. darkness, mobility (eventual flight), haunts & traps, locks, social/RP obstacles, and eventually getting item/status/circumstance bonuses & extra actions as high as possible. Yet there are so many paths to those solutions, with IMO it better coming from the PC than their gear. Plus there are build problems which specific items might solve (i.e. Doubling Rings), so become "must-have" in that sense. And I think all casters should have a Staff, but which one will vary a lot.
Anyway, thankfully PF2 has avoided those esoteric must-have items like in PF1 that all PCs (kinda) must acquire, yet a rookie wouldn't know about.
Also, it is kinda weird hearing this from you, given the fact iirc you play allowing precast before combat.
I said in my previous post that if you have time to prebuff, then there's no more reasons not to use Haste.
So this shouldn't be an issue at all in your games too ( in mine, until now, I couldn't find a combat that last less than 4/5 rounds. So no issues at all ).
You are losing an entire round (to cast Haste) to gain 3/4 Strides in subsequent rounds (if we are speaking of a caster). Definitely a net loss unless you are in a fight with a lot of mobility required.
For martials, it's a bit better as you can Strike. But very often it'll be a third attack. Considering that you lost a first and second attack to cast the spell, you need 8 rounds to break even. And that's without considering that damage at round one is more important than damage during subsequent rounds (especially during the last ones). So once again, it's a net loss.
Haste is situational (it can be build situational, as melee Maguses love it). It's strong when properly used, but bad if used without thinking much.
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On a standard scenario, being hasted on a caster would end up with a ranged strike ( quickened condition )
If you have built your caster to have a significant ranged strike, then it changes my point of view significantly. But from my experience it's not very common.
Without this significant ranged Strike, the extra Stride shouldn't help you much. And the loss of a round is more crippling than the gain.
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Thanks all, as there are a lot of really good ideas here!
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The Gloves of Storing are great though. Because drawing your weapon is an action that you were probably going to use anyway at the start of battle. So getting that as a free action instead frees up another general purpose action that you can use for whatever else you want during that first round of combat.
What kind of adventurer marches into dangerous areas without their weapon already at the ready?
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I think Haste is still pretty good. If you see the opening moves of a fight and realize another character is likely to be the MVP in that fight while you don't really have the right tools for it, cast haste on them. Trade your poor actions for their better actions.
The design is nicer because you don't use it on autopilot anymore.
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On my Sorcerer I feel like he would get almost no benefit from Haste. 3 Actions almost always feels like it's enough.
On my Swashbuckler, I have only played 1 Bounty so far, against a Chupacabra that downed me in 1 hit critting me for 31 to hit and like 28 damage or something. So I barely got to play or experiment, but I will say that it *felt* like haste is something I very much would like to have. Also to not die, but that was more...I just didn't know. I thought I was setting up a flanking opportunity for an ally, I didn't expect to get bodied lol.
I am considering delaying my turn to take my turn around the same time as other martials so we move together, and maybe after the monster so it's closer to me so i need less actions spent moving toward it, to give me a 3rd action to Dueling Parry.
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The Gloves of Storing are great though. Because drawing your weapon is an action that you were probably going to use anyway at the start of battle. So getting that as a free action instead frees up another general purpose action that you can use for whatever else you want during that first round of combat.What kind of adventurer marches into dangerous areas without their weapon already at the ready?
- An adventurer who was climbing with both hands to find enemies at the top of the cliff.
- An adventurer who had a shield on one hand and opened a door with the other hand.- An adventurer who starts combat with longbow archery and then wants a one-handed melee weapon when the enemies close in.
- An adventurer who wants to switch to a cold iron or silver weapon.
- An adventurer who was surprised at a campfire meal while in full gear but with hands full of food.
An item would be very powerful if it saved an action every combat. But saving an action in several special situations is still useful.
Yeah, in all of this discussion about Haste, very few people are mentioning that it is quite often the case that the characters that can cast Haste are rarely the characters that benefit from it the most.
Yes, spellcasters often only really need Haste if they are casting a lot of 3-action spells.
Martials can use the extra Stride action to get into position or out of dangerous locations better - things like having time to Step instead of just Stride and provoke.
Also, some martials that often only have time for one attack - most notably Swashbuckler - can get a second attack.
I thought I was setting up a flanking opportunity for an ally, I didn't expect to get bodied lol.
I am considering delaying my turn to take my turn around the same time as other martials so we move together, and maybe after the monster so it's closer to me so i need less actions spent moving toward it, to give me a 3rd action to Dueling Parry.
Yeah, tumble through can be rather risky. Yes, you will gain panache if successful - and then be wildly out of position deep in enemy lines and take a lot of focus fire before your turn comes up again. Use with caution.
In regards to the Haste discussion, I like just having it in the form of a scroll before the level 7 version unless one of your martials kinda needs that extra action to function properly.
As for how good it is on casters, it depends on the value of your 3rd action, really. If you are all in onto One for All for example, it is pretty valuable in certain encounters I'd say.
As for Magic Items, mostly what the others said. I put Boots of Bounding and a Wand of 2nd level Longstrider on most of my characters. Fundamental Runes as well (called fundamental for a reason) and Apex items, since those are basically already factored in the math of the system.
Only thing I would want to add is that certain consumables are must buy once their price becomes a non-factor (some are build-specific, though). These are a few of those:
-Retrieval Prism (anyone)
-Persistent Lodestone (reload builds)
-Murderer's Knot (high level rogues)
-Orchestral Brooch (Bards)
-Ghost Ammunition (ranged builds, not a consumable in practice)
-Retaliation Potion (anyone)
-Energy Mutagen (anyone, very encounter specific)
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- Googles of Night.
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Is this when you search on Google with dark mode turned on?
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Need items to balance the math:
Armor potency and resilient runes.
Weapon potency and striking runes
Items that are high value:
1. Items that add to your mobility likes boots of bounding that stack with other mobility enhancing feats and abilities.
2. Items that give you an ability you cannot easily access like an elven cloak and boots that give you a bonus to two skills and invisibility.
3. Ability boosting items which you don't get until very high level.
4. Item bonus to skills you use often like Athletics, Intimidate, Stealth, and the like that work in conjunction with other abilities like grapple, demoralize, and such.
Standard Adventuring items:
1. Bags and carrying items that make stashing treasure and items easier.
2. Items that allow you to feed yourself and survive while adventuring for long periods of times, so you can get that bookkeeping part of the game out of the way.
Consumables:
1. Scrolls with utility spells, heals, and the like to extend casting for an adventuring day.
2. Staves and wands for the same reason as 1.
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I am creating an Item Guide based off this thread and many others.
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Deriven has some good principles for evaluating which items are good.
Another thing I'm looking at when wondering "is this item good" is how it'll work after a few levels. Something that gives a +x bonus to my skill is probably fine, that's still a bonus. Something that makes a check with a fixed +y, or calls for a save against a fixed DC z, probably won't be so cool after a few levels.
It's a reason why I really like the Spellguard Shield. +2 to AC and saves is good at level 6 but still good a lot of levels later. For characters that want a shield for AC not Shield Block, this is my prime choice that I would compare all alternatives against.
Another category is spellhearts. Spellhearts allow casters to obtain more offensive cantrips which is already very nice, but they also aren't limited to cantrips from your tradition. This is hugely liberating to the divine and occult list.
Contributor
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I am creating an Item Guide based off this thread and many others.
I am psyched that you are writing another guide. Your sorcerer and spells guides are go-tos for me.
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I am creating an Item Guide based off this thread and many others.I am psyched that you are writing another guide. Your sorcerer and spells guides are go-tos for me.
Me too. I use them all the time.
I haven't looked over some of the new magic items like spellhearts. I'm hoping they are interesting.
I haven't looked over some of the new magic items like spellhearts. I'm hoping they are interesting.
Free cantrip for any class using your own spell DC. Other minor bonuses. They really work if you are a caster who like to mix in a few bow attacks with some saving throw cantrips.
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My Ancestor Oracle, Tess, picked up the Perfect Droplet so that she could walk through enemies to gain better positioning. I am thinking of doing the same with my fighter who is multiclassing Sorcerer once he has basic spellcasting! Those secondary bonuses can be awesome on the right character.
For all spell casters a Shadow Sigil ring from Secretes of Magic is a good item. Allows the spell caster to target either the Fortitude DC or Reflex DC instead of Armor Class with attack spells. A common, level 10 item.
if Electric Arc is truly the be all-end all it's made out to be.
For the most part, it is.
There are a few cantrips that have benefits that put them ahead in their particular category.
Spout is an area spell even if that area is only one square. So it is really good against swarms.
Telekinetic Projectile has a larger die size than other cantrips.
Ray of Frost has an extremely long range.
But Electric Arc can target two enemies anywhere in range. Doing double damage is a better benefit than what any other cantrip gets.
Scatter Scree is another really good cantrip. It is also an area spell. And it can end up hitting multiple creatures, though doing so is less common than it is with Electric Arc.
Spellhearts, in general, are useful for pretty much any character; even non-casters.
In many cases, it's like an extra rune on an armor or weapon plus added features. For instance, the beastmaster's sigil affixed to a melee weapon grants a +1 on Athletic checks to trip plus the ability to summon a wolf; or a bleed effect when affixed to a ranged weapon. Many of the other spellhearts grant energy resistance when affixed to armor or add energy damage when affixed to a weapon.
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Spellhearts, in general, are useful for pretty much any character; even non-casters.
In many cases, it's like an extra rune on an armor or weapon plus added features. For instance, the beastmaster's sigil affixed to a melee weapon grants a +1 on Athletic checks to trip plus the ability to summon a wolf; or a bleed effect when affixed to a ranged weapon. Many of the other spellhearts grant energy resistance when affixed to armor or add energy damage when affixed to a weapon.
You can't cast spells with a Spellheart unless you have a spellcasting class or spellcasting dedication. So it's rather limited to "non-casters".
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You can't cast spells with a Spellheart unless you have a spellcasting class or spellcasting dedication. So it's rather limited to "non-casters".Spellhearts, in general, are useful for pretty much any character; even non-casters.
In many cases, it's like an extra rune on an armor or weapon plus added features. For instance, the beastmaster's sigil affixed to a melee weapon grants a +1 on Athletic checks to trip plus the ability to summon a wolf; or a bleed effect when affixed to a ranged weapon. Many of the other spellhearts grant energy resistance when affixed to armor or add energy damage when affixed to a weapon.
The new ones in TV are a little less limited than the first batch from SoM. Quite a few of the TV ones have constant effects, or effects that trigger on a Strike or critical hit on an attack, not on casting a spell.
The new ones in TV are a little less limited than the first batch from SoM. Quite a few of the TV ones have constant effects, or effects that trigger on a Strike or critical hit on an attack, not on casting a spell.You can't cast spells with a Spellheart unless you have a spellcasting class or spellcasting dedication. So it's rather limited to "non-casters".Spellhearts, in general, are useful for pretty much any character; even non-casters.
In many cases, it's like an extra rune on an armor or weapon plus added features. For instance, the beastmaster's sigil affixed to a melee weapon grants a +1 on Athletic checks to trip plus the ability to summon a wolf; or a bleed effect when affixed to a ranged weapon. Many of the other spellhearts grant energy resistance when affixed to armor or add energy damage when affixed to a weapon.
Aside from the doorknob that gives you a base 5% chance to inflict dazzled/blinded without a save, there's jyoti's feather that gives you a free disrupting rune for those undead campaigns, warding statuette to give a status bonus to AC to a melee ally adjacent to the target on hit, vigilant eye reduces the DC to hit concealed/hidden/undetected as far as offense goes.
Judgement thurible gets points for letting a magus spellstrike with divine lance and then giving them a free holy rune for that spellstrike and for their next turn.
Some of these spellhearts sound nice.
I didn't know about these ones. It's still "rather limited", but it's true a few of them can find their way on non-casters' weapons.
I am creating an Item Guide based off this thread and many others.Bracelet of Dashing is one source of speed bonus that seems to be missing (it's more a cheap acrobatics bonus, but 1/day +10 for a minute isn't bad)
Thanks