Why Do I Need to Play Pathfinder 2E to Play Kitsune / Grippli / Etc?


Starfinder Society

4/5 5/5 * Contributor

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Name's in the thread. Why do I need to Play Pathfinder 2E to play kitsune, grippli, hobgoblin, or kobolds in Starfinder? Like, I get that it's supposed to be a cool crossplay thing, but now I feel like I have to use my Achievement Points for Pathfinder to play what I want to play in Starfinder. It just feels bad.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

My guess is because those races are not in a starfinder rule book but part of a race deck.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

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I love the idea of the cross-play being a discount (so that it is cheaper for example to purchase Androids and Ysoki with Starfinder points than with Pathfinder ones) but I do agree that these races should be available with Starfinder points as well. It's one of the biggest complaints of one of my devoted Starfinder players, Dracomicron, that he had to use Pathfinder points to purchase a Kobold.

It's something that I hope they change sooner rather than later.

Hmm

5/5

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

I love the idea of the cross-play being a discount (so that it is cheaper for example to purchase Androids and Ysoki with Starfinder points than with Pathfinder ones) but I do agree that these races should be available with Starfinder points as well. It's one of the biggest complaints of one of my devoted Starfinder players, Dracomicron, that he had to use Pathfinder points to purchase a Kobold.

It's something that I hope they change sooner rather than later.

Hmm

Yeah. The only reason I was able to make Braxidax is because they gave us free PF2 points.

I would pay triple SFS AcP for Kobold.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

5 people marked this as a favorite.

But these are options that are already there. Those races were introduced via the race deck, so they exist in Starfinder already. Likewise, some of the most classic Starfinder races like Lashunta and Triaxian and Ysoki existed in Pathfinder first. And there has been a vocal group of Pathfinder players on the forums who keep hoping they'll get Lashunta or Kasathans in Pathfinder 2e.

Since we've had one major time travel event across the systems, it makes even more sense that some of these ancestries will available in the future (or the past!)

Besides, it doesn't break the game to have options that players can use their ACP to build.

Hmm

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

My point is choice overload.

One can only play so many characters.

I don't see the point, or the need, to make every race available in both system in society play. That is what home games are for.

But I dont get to make decisions and my view seems to in the minority now days so if it happens, great. Either way it will not impact me.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Gary Bush wrote:

One can only play so many characters.

I don't see the point, or the need, to make every race available in both system in society play. That is what home games are for.

But I dont get to make decisions and my view seems to in the minority now days so if it happens, great. Either way it will not impact me.

One can only play so many characters but many want to play one particular characters.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

One can only play so many characters.

I don't see the point, or the need, to make every race available in both system in society play. That is what home games are for.

But I dont get to make decisions and my view seems to in the minority now days so if it happens, great. Either way it will not impact me.

One can only play so many characters but many want to play one particular characters.

No reason to rise to that bait.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

Gary Bush wrote:

One can only play so many characters.

I don't see the point, or the need, to make every race available in both system in society play. That is what home games are for.

But I dont get to make decisions and my view seems to in the minority now days so if it happens, great. Either way it will not impact me.

Aka I got mine, screw the rest of you.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.


"Dr." Cupi wrote:

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

”Do we need more races?”

“I personally don’t see the need to expand the options”

Seems pretty blatant.

5/5 5/55/55/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gary Bush wrote:


No reason to rise to that bait.

There is nothing baity about it. Nor is there anything that could honestly be construed as bait. The number of characters you can play is simply not a limiting reagent if you want to have so many as two kitsune. If you don't like pf2 having to play it to play the starfinder character you want can feel a lot more like a stick than a carrot.

A cross system discount is fine. But some people really don't like the other system.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I tend to take Gary at his word that this for him is about him wanting fewer options for himself, rather than any nefarious intent to shut down Starfinder.

On the hand, I do know there are people (like Alex and Dracomicron) who may want multiple kitsunes and kobolds available with Starfinder points. From my experience as an Organizer, most players do not crossover between the two systems. We have about 20% of our players who will play both systems, and the rest are dedicated to either Starfinder or Pathfinder 2E.

I want them to be able to earn their options without having to cross the pools, even if it is at higher ACP rate.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

”Do we need more races?”

“I personally don’t see the need to expand the options”

Seems pretty blatant.

For clarity, I'm asking about..

"...should stop producing SF in it’s entirety..."

How did you jump from the subject of races, to the game as a whole?


"Dr." Cupi wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

”Do we need more races?”

“I personally don’t see the need to expand the options”

Seems pretty blatant.

For clarity, I'm asking about..

"...should stop producing SF in it’s entirety..."

How did you jump from the subject of races, to the game as a whole?

If you’re not expanding the options, you’re not producing anything.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

”Do we need more races?”

“I personally don’t see the need to expand the options”

Seems pretty blatant.

For clarity, I'm asking about..

"...should stop producing SF in it’s entirety..."

How did you jump from the subject of races, to the game as a whole?

If you’re not expanding the options, you’re not producing anything.

That is a very interesting point of view.


"Dr." Cupi wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:

You concluded this..

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

...from this..

Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

...really?

I honestly want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

”Do we need more races?”

“I personally don’t see the need to expand the options”

Seems pretty blatant.

For clarity, I'm asking about..

"...should stop producing SF in it’s entirety..."

How did you jump from the subject of races, to the game as a whole?

If you’re not expanding the options, you’re not producing anything.
That is a very interesting point of view.

For a gaming company? Not really.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yep, Paizo needs to continually produce content in order to constantly sell content. There's no argument there.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

Do we need the Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Should we have Starfinder races in Pathfnder?

I personally don't see the need to expand the options already present in the game.

So Paizo should stop producing SF in it’s entirely, genius marketing move.

Gary Bush wrote:

One can only play so many characters.

I don't see the point, or the need, to make every race available in both system in society play. That is what home games are for.

But I dont get to make decisions and my view seems to in the minority now days so if it happens, great. Either way it will not impact me.

Aka I got mine, screw the rest of you.

Why so hostile? I gave my opinion. Since I don't make decisions for Paizo I am sure they will do what people ask for because, as someone pointed out, it makes money.

It is sad how people will jump on someone who does not share their opinion.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

So my reason for not seeing the need to have all races in both systems is because I prefer a distinction between the two game system. Races is one way that is achieved. And I understand the mechanics are very different.

Pretty simple really.

I would be one of the 20% if I was in Hillary's area as I play both systems.

I have not played a core race in either system in years. I admit I don't have a challenge with access because I play and GM a lot. My first character in Starfinder is a Haan that I earned from GMing at GENCON.

Anyways, I offered my opinion. If you don't like it, I don't care.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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That's a lot of words for not caring.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

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Content does not necessarily mean options.

Silver Crusade

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Gary Bush wrote:
Why so hostile? I gave my opinion.
Your opinion is you want people to have less content, for Paizo to put out less content. That’s bad.
Gary Bush wrote:
So my reason for not seeing the need to have all races in both systems is because I prefer a distinction between the two game system. Races is one way that is achieved. And I understand the mechanics are very different.

That’s a bad opinion.

Lashunta and Kasatha were in P1 before they were in SF.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Why so hostile? I gave my opinion.
Your opinion is you want people to have less content, for Paizo to put out less content. That’s bad.
Gary Bush wrote:
So my reason for not seeing the need to have all races in both systems is because I prefer a distinction between the two game system. Races is one way that is achieved. And I understand the mechanics are very different.

That’s a bad opinion.

Lashunta and Kasatha were in P1 before they were in SF.

How can you say my opinion is bad?

Oh wait, you have never liked my opinions and only consider your own as good and everyone else's as bad.


I say it’s bad because it bad.

“Oh wait, you have never liked my opinions”

I guess? I honestly forget who you are, I don’t spend much time on the Paizo forums lately.

“ and everyone else's as bad.”

I consider the current ones you’re espousing on this thread bad.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Gary, I recommend you go find something better to do with your time.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

TOZ wrote:
That's a lot of words for not caring.

You, of anyone, should understand why I used so many words to say I don't care. You have been attacked on these boards in the past and been forced to defend yourself.

I don't like bullies and there are too many on this board. Please don't join them. I have always respected your viewpoints.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gary, I recommend you go find something better to do with your time.

Wow... surprised by this comment. I can't have an opinion different than you? I really don't understand where all the hostility is coming from.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

I say it’s bad because it bad.

“Oh wait, you have never liked my opinions”

I guess? I honestly forget who you are, I don’t spend much time on the Paizo forums lately.

“ and everyone else's as bad.”

I consider the current ones you’re espousing on this thread bad.

Yeah I haven't much time either.

Glad we agree that each others opinions are bad. Have something in common.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gary Bush wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gary, I recommend you go find something better to do with your time.
Wow... surprised by this comment. I can't have an opinion different than you? I really don't understand where all the hostility is coming from.

Not my intent. I just know, as well as anyone, when an internet fight is just not worth perpetuating.

Doesn't mean I make the right choice most times. Just that I can see when I'm making the same old mistakes.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I agree with you here.

It is past my bed time. I had fun feeding the trolls and I have said my peace.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

Rysky wrote:
That’s a bad opinion.

This is gold. Imma hold on to this one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just gonna say we already have confirmation of kitsune coming in Starfinder Unleashed or whatever the revised core book is titled (too many un words!)

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I agree that although a discount is great, if a race/ancestry is allowed into a system at a discount for playing/using a product there should also be a non-discounted way to get it. As an organizer, I do like people to try other systems. I also know that some people will refuse to play one of them or very strongly prefer one.

I have had multiple people say they would rather not attend than come to play the system they don’t like. Provided they let me know that so I can schedule accordingly, no problem!

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm glad I get to play a kobold. I wish all Starfinder-only players got to. I feel like the reason I get to play one is a bit of a half-measure that benefits long time players only.

I was sad when kobolds existed in Starfinder and I couldn't play one because they were restricted to Pathfinder players.

I always want people to be able to play what they want to play, as long as it doesn't hurt other players.

Grand Lodge **

I kind of thought that was the point of the System Traveler boons. They encourage playing both systems, but they also give you something to do with your 80 free points points if you really don't want to.

What's the benefit only to long-time players?

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Super Zero wrote:

I kind of thought that was the point of the System Traveler boons. They encourage playing both systems, but they also give you something to do with your 80 free points points if you really don't want to.

What's the benefit only to long-time players?

No, every existing and fresh account should have those 80 ACP for both Starfinder and PFS2.

Grand Lodge **

Right, so the System Traveler boons give you something to do with the other set of points even if you really are only interested in one game.

None of them cost more than 80 AcP and two of them only cost 40, so the 80 free points is enough for one or two of them even if someone never plays PFS2.

Dataphiles

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I found myself wondering how this thread could have descended to folks being really snippy at each other so quickly. But then like, I don't think it was going to be positive anyway. I only have my kitsune character for SFS because I had a bunch of PF2 sitting around doing nothing, and now that I have her, with pretty much the UK scene having moved away from org play post-lockdown for a variety of reasons... she's just kinda sitting around doing nothing too. I... think yeah, I don't think this cross-promotion works for what it's trying to do.

Wayfinders

4 people marked this as a favorite.

A cross-system discount feels better than having to play one game to get something in the other. I wonder if a universal pool of ACP would help. I currently have 117 ACP in SF and 20 in PF2e. I want to make a kobold in SF, but I'm saving my PF2e ACP for the PF2e characters. I already play both games; I don't need the incentive to do so, but being able to spend ACP between the two would make playing both easier.

As an incentive to try the other game, give extra ACP for your first character in the other game for completing their first three scenarios. This would all so be a good incentive for new players to stick with the game long enough to get a better feel for it.

And now for some not-so-serious suggestions.
It should cost ACP to predict the end of Starfinder, and the rest of us that keep playing get those points.

If you want to use ACP to encourage PF2e players to play Starfinder, let them spend ACP to take a 3rd action.

Advocates 3/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—PaizoCon

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Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

But these are options that are already there. Those races were introduced via the race deck, so they exist in Starfinder already. Likewise, some of the most classic Starfinder races like Lashunta and Triaxian and Ysoki existed in Pathfinder first. And there has been a vocal group of Pathfinder players on the forums who keep hoping they'll get Lashunta or Kasathans in Pathfinder 2e.

Since we've had one major time travel event across the systems, it makes even more sense that some of these ancestries will available in the future (or the past!)

Besides, it doesn't break the game to have options that players can use their ACP to build.

Hmm

I gotta agree. I love playing my "Elf with a hair problem" Triaxian Paladin PFS1e. There's a bunch of AP connections to "alien" people, so they're not new. Just unusual.

If people don't enjoy 2e, I'm kind of of the opinion, you can stick those species in home games. Home games, you're only bounded by GM opinion, and honestly, I don't think most home GMs are gonna bat an eye at a grippli when Jububnan (basically 1 legged hopping toads) exist.

But ACP as a across the two systems pool would be nice, cause I'm the opposite direction... *eyes army of Sprite character ideas, and too many fun PFS2e options and many SFS points*

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