Purpose of Elemental Weapon


Kineticist Class

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I’m not sure I understand what Elemental Weapon is supposed to do.
At first read, it gives your elemental blast the stats for an actual weapon only dealing elemental damage.
That would suggest that Air would be the most common Elemental Weapon and Fire the least as Fire already does Martial Weapon damage so gains much less by taking the Elemental Weapon option. Which given the prevelence of weapons of fire in fantasy seems exactly the opposite of what you’d want.

As you can already make melee strikes with Elemental Blast, this seems a feat that struggles for a purpose. What have I missed?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

- You use your unarmed proficiency with the weapon so kinda free proficiency in a weapon.

- Regular strikes with the weapon don't provoke like a melee blast does.

- You'd get the weapon traits unless they change damage types.

- Half the elements can get at least a small damage increase. One can get a large one.

- As currently written it doesn't exclude weapons with the Two Hand or Fatal Aim trait so you can summon then two-hand it for bigger die.


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It also is the only way not to provoke with melee elemental blasts.

Sczarni

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Elemental weapon exists so I can use a water gun to shoot fatal d12 water bullets at people.


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siegfriedliner wrote:
It also is the only way not to provoke with melee elemental blasts.

This is one of the biggest reasons.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thank you. I had not clocked the potential AoO


It also allows you to interact with things like Haste, a Speed Rune (if Runes can apply to Elemental Weapon, jury's out on that), Paladin Exalt, Psychic's heightened Message Amp, AoO... basically anything granting a Strike, since Elemental Blast is a distinct Action that includes a Strike and not a Weapon.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

They should really allow for 2 handed weapons so we can make rock bows or fire bows.


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What else is a fire kineticist going to use vs a golem?


graystone wrote:
What else is a fire kineticist going to use vs a golem?

Good old running away, because that damage resistance is going to make that Elemental Weapon useless.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Elemental Weapon with a Fire Kineticist is still going to deal fire damage. So it isn't really going to be a huge difference against golems, unless the golem isn't immune or resistant to fire already.


Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Elemental Weapon with a Fire Kineticist is still going to deal fire damage. So it isn't really going to be a huge difference against golems, unless the golem isn't immune or resistant to fire already.

Hmmm, does Elemental Weapon interact with Adapt Element?

One of Adapt Element's options is to Gather Element (any).

So a Fire Kineticist can spend an extra action to Adapt Element (Water) as long as they're carrying a water flask with water of negligible bulk to make a water weapon.


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Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Elemental Weapon with a Fire Kineticist is still going to deal fire damage. So it isn't really going to be a huge difference against golems, unless the golem isn't immune or resistant to fire already.

I think he meant golem antimagic, which makes golems immune to almost all spells and spell like abilities (including impulses) unless they match a certain trait depending on the golem.

Striking with the elemental weapon isn't an impulse, so it should go through and actually hit.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Theoretically Elemental Weapon also allows you to benefit from feats like Sudden Charge or other special abilities that make Strikes.

Really though Elemental Blast should count as a Strike.


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Tunu40 wrote:
So a Fire Kineticist can spend an extra action to Adapt Element (Water)

No they can't: 'Choose a non-magical portion of an element you can channel'


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tweezer wrote:
Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Elemental Weapon with a Fire Kineticist is still going to deal fire damage. So it isn't really going to be a huge difference against golems, unless the golem isn't immune or resistant to fire already.

I think he meant golem antimagic, which makes golems immune to almost all spells and spell like abilities (including impulses) unless they match a certain trait depending on the golem.

Striking with the elemental weapon isn't an impulse, so it should go through and actually hit.

The problem is a number of Golems are ALSO immune to Fire. So if the Golem happens to have immunity to fire the Fire Elemental Weapon isn't going to help either.


Errenor wrote:
No they can't: 'Choose a non-magical portion of an element you can channel'

Oh geez, I missed that line.

Then what's the point of Adapt Element to Gather an Element if I can just choose my own Inner Gate?

I think it should really be meant to gain access to other Elemental Blasts.

It doesn't step on other Gates toes because your access to Impulse feats is based on what elements you chose with your Gate.

Unless I'm missing something here?

Verdant Wheel

Tunu40 wrote:
Errenor wrote:
No they can't: 'Choose a non-magical portion of an element you can channel'

Oh geez, I missed that line.

Then what's the point of Adapt Element to Gather an Element if I can just choose my own Inner Gate?

I think it should really be meant to gain access to other Elemental Blasts.

It doesn't step on other Gates toes because your access to Impulse feats is based on what elements you chose with your Gate.

Unless I'm missing something here?

Adapt into Gather... It is quite strange. It seems to be for situations in which you cannot access your Gate for some reason?

I mean, it's way more thematic for certain elements if you don't like too much conjuration in your Earthbending, but in-combat it does seem strictly worse.


One thing that it looks like you could do is make it a free hand weapon like a gauntlet so you could hold a couple of things and still have access to your abilities. Locks you into melee blasts though. You'd still need to have a free hand to gather again but this could be used with a bow and an elemental gauntlet.


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I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p

This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.

Verdant Wheel

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keftiu wrote:

I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p

This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.

I was also excited about this for multiclassing, though for the Armor Inventor. If you select your Elemental Weapon as your chosen weapon for abilities like Offensive Boost, you could flavour yourself up a rad plasma-blade to work with your Inventor damage boosters. You even get bonus switch-hitting goodies, because Armor Inventors also get to have Offensive Boost benefit all of their unarmed attacks, which is a bonus that applies to your Elemental Blast if you want an arm-cannon mode for your plasma blade.

Planar Technology, heck yeah.

Of course, that all assumes that the Multiclass gets as its core ability Elemental Blast, which I reckon it will. In fact, I suspect that the basic attack that we have in the playtest will be exactly what the Multiclass Dedication gets you, except that you will only be able to Gather an Element via a limited Adapt Element (which is why the Adapt-to-Gather option is even in the playtest). It probably wouldn't be too far off the Soul Forger Dedication.


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keftiu wrote:

I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p

This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.

Some drifters would definitely like infinite ammo and a propulsive ranged option. But yeah, since it'll likely share runes with your handwraps, it allows characters to effectively dual wield with one hand. Have a d8 weapon and follow up with an agile blast or vice versa.

Verdant Wheel

aobst128 wrote:
keftiu wrote:

I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p

This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.

Some drifters would definitely like infinite ammo and a propulsive ranged option. But yeah, since it'll likely share runes with your handwraps, it allows characters to effectively dual wield with one hand. Have a d8 weapon and follow up with an agile blast or vice versa.

The Air Blast would, hilariously, add the benefits of an Air Repeater on top of your regular pistol what with the d4 Agile. Except with great range and a cool new ranged damage type that Gunslingers don't get to play with.


Nitro~Nina wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
keftiu wrote:

I think the Feat’s purpose is to let other classes get a very fun new toy when they take the Kineticist Multiclass :p

This is only partly a joke - I love the idea of spending two Feats on a Monk to get a flaming weapon I can summon at will, and if they implement more elemental damage types in the final class, then even better.

Some drifters would definitely like infinite ammo and a propulsive ranged option. But yeah, since it'll likely share runes with your handwraps, it allows characters to effectively dual wield with one hand. Have a d8 weapon and follow up with an agile blast or vice versa.
The Air Blast would, hilariously, add the benefits of an Air Repeater on top of your regular pistol what with the d4 Agile. Except with great range and a cool new ranged damage type that Gunslingers don't get to play with.

Yeah, only problem is that pesky singular expertise. Definitely adds some more versatility though.


An air gun sounds mostly harmless until you're firing hurricane force winds out of it focused in the tiny space of a bullet.

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