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I love to go back and take a deeper look at all the 1E Prestige Classes and Archetypes seeing what lore there is to be found. I figured it wouldn't hurt to share what I have so far. There is a few areas I haven't finished but I have taken a break from the Broken Lands temporarily.
** spoiler omitted **...
I always appreciate these writeups you do! One interesting note with Daggermark is that they’re known to employ Vishkanya, an Ancestry we’ll be seeing in the upcoming Impossible Lands book.
Speaking of the River Kingdoms, Outsea might make a nice excuse for some more aquatic Ancestries to become playable; I think it’s one of the only places in the setting with friendly Sahuagin.
Thanks Keftiu! I consider that very high praise as you are one of the folks on here that I always enjoy reading their thoughts and insights. It is also nice to hear someone enjoys reading my analyses. I like doing them for fun, but I am never quite sure if they are useful for anyone else when I share them.
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While not precisely about the hypothetical LO book: if we saw the inevitable Brevoy civil war in an AP, would you want it as a 1-10, an 11-20, or a full 1-10?
1-20 would be very tasty, involving the whole meta region.
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While not precisely about the hypothetical LO book: if we saw the inevitable Brevoy civil war in an AP, would you want it as a 1-10, an 11-20, or a full 1-10?1-20 would be very tasty, involving the whole meta region.
With Gatewatchers starting in Sevenarches (in the River Kingdoms) and seemingly going to Sarkoris, it seems like we're certainly traveling across a fair bit of the Broken Lands in it.
Might be worth getting excited if it conspicuously steers clear of Numeria or Brevoy.
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A civil war in Brevoy seems to small in scale for a full 1-20, so an 11-20 3 parter would be good. However, if we were treated to the return of Choral the Conqueror, THAT would justify a full 1-20. The lower level parts might dip into the civil war, and then Choral comes back as things start getting into the higher levels.
A civil war in Brevoy seems to small in scale for a full 1-20, so an 11-20 3 parter would be good. However, if we were treated to the return of Choral the Conqueror, THAT would justify a full 1-20. The lower level parts might dip into the civil war, and then Choral comes back as things start getting into the higher levels.
That was what I was envisioning with my response, yes. Of course Choral's return causes political turmoil and the neighboring nations start to jockey for a possible, oportunistic expansion, as heads of state are wont to do.
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They already did a PF2 AP where a dragon was the big bad, so I'm not sure they want to do another one so soon. Dragons are more the other folks' brand.
They already did a PF2 AP where a dragon was the big bad, so I'm not sure they want to do another one so soon. Dragons are more the other folks' brand.
Age of Ashes is going to be four years old next year, and I think there's enough difference between Choral and any of the foes in that AP for it not to feel same-y. Nobody was conquering much of anything, y'know?
But I do think the Brevic Civil War should put the spotlight firmly on mortal intrigues and feuds, more than some big fire-breathing beastie.
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They already did a PF2 AP where a dragon was the big bad, so I'm not sure they want to do another one so soon. Dragons are more the other folks' brand.Age of Ashes is going to be four years old next year, and I think there's enough difference between Choral and any of the foes in that AP for it not to feel same-y. Nobody was conquering much of anything, y'know?
But I do think the Brevic Civil War should put the spotlight firmly on mortal intrigues and feuds, more than some big fire-breathing beastie.
Choral could work, dragon or human guise, and differentiate it from AoA if the threat was present and obvious throughout the AP rather than learned about near the end, the BBEG being a looming Ominous threat building.
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Choral could work, dragon or human guise, and differentiate it from AoA if the threat was present and obvious throughout the AP rather than learned about near the end, the BBEG being a looming Ominous threat building.They already did a PF2 AP where a dragon was the big bad, so I'm not sure they want to do another one so soon. Dragons are more the other folks' brand.Age of Ashes is going to be four years old next year, and I think there's enough difference between Choral and any of the foes in that AP for it not to feel same-y. Nobody was conquering much of anything, y'know?
But I do think the Brevic Civil War should put the spotlight firmly on mortal intrigues and feuds, more than some big fire-breathing beastie.
Actually, I would go at it the other way around : conspire and advance your plots and play various sides against each other. Until you have high enough level to muster armies to fight that decisive battle.
And then, guess who appears up in the sky above the battlefield to soundly trash the victors ? Hope you made the right decisions when leveling up your PCs.
Of course there would be hints and rumors about Choral's imminent return disseminated from level 1.
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I do still hope we can get that Iron Gods sequel. I'm always a sucker for the Dominion, and I want to see what's next for Numeria - it's the place that got me into Golarion!
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While not precisely about the hypothetical LO book: if we saw the inevitable Brevoy civil war in an AP, would you want it as a 1-10, an 11-20, or a full 1-10?1-20 would be very tasty, involving the whole meta region.With Gatewatchers starting in Sevenarches (in the River Kingdoms) and seemingly going to Sarkoris, it seems like we're certainly traveling across a fair bit of the Broken Lands in it.
Might be worth getting excited if it conspicuously steers clear of Numeria or Brevoy.
Yes, you make a good point about the Gatewalkers AP as possibly being related to a Brevoy civil war, but I disagree that the AP actually reaches Sarkoris. My read of the description for They Watched the Stars was that the elfgate the PCs traverse in the first adventure, The Seventh Arch, would drop them near Skywatch in norther Brevoy/Issia. I base this conclusion on the fact that the Lake of Mists and Veils borders old Iobaria, Brevoy, Numeria, and Mendev while Sevenarches is just over the West Sellen from Kyonin, and the weird "people disapperin" hook has been mentioned for it too. Also, neither of the two goals for Sakuachi's quest actually require her to reach Sarkoris. A meeting with a summoner's eidolon and sealing up some random dungeon could be enough, and this is the Age of Lost Omens, after all. I suppose alternate destinations could be the mysterious hulk north of Chesed or maybe Orlov or Okormirr in Iobaria for a full traverse of the lake. I'm still hoping for Skywatch as that might hit the Rostland and Issia are getting a divorce theme I've talked up in other threads.
It also makes me wonder if the final volume ends up in Karcau in Ustalav, since that would be the sort of place paranormal investigators might visit. Canals, a creepy opera house, musical genius makes that place sound like it will have some madness or paranormal themes sooner or later.
In answer to the initial question, it could work as an 11-20 followup to Gatewalkers, I guess.
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This is less a "want" and more a semi-relevant shower thought, but it occurs to me that Mendev might be the closest equivalent that Golarion has to the Baltic states. Some of the earlier crusades, especially the Third, involved persecution of locals (both Mendevian and Sarkorian) in addition to the demons--mirroring the real-world Northern Crusades where people from further south invaded northeastern Europeans with different religious beliefs to them. Being only a little to the west of Fantasy Counterpart Russia helps too.
I'm not necessarily requesting that the comparison be leaned into more, since Mendev is a place where it makes sense for it not to resemble real world cultures as much, more just an interesting parallel I noticed.
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If Gatewalkers is foreshadowing for a Broken Lands year in 2023, then I might hope the Castrovel backmatter in book 1 is a hint for Lashunta as a Rare Ancestry tucked into the LO release. Numeria introducing some proper populations of them (we know of nonspecific hidden villages of aliens, plus Lady Altouna’s network of alien-helpers) feels like our only plausible place to get player rules for them.
And if there’s a Primal rulebook coming like some theorize, the Lashunta have a long tradition of bonding with their cool lizard mounts, while living on the most verdant planet in the system.
…humor me, okay? I just want to play the weird psychic gender aliens.
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I personally have been interested in the premise of Brevoy for quite some time. While LO:Absalom has given plenty of resources for a very in depth politics first campaign, I am still very much craving for Brevoy content. I would be happy to get an in depth look at the cultures of Rostland and Issia as well as of each of the major houses and maybe even some of the more minor houses. On top of that I would be interested in any new locations in the region. Dungeons, towns, miscellaneous adventure ideas, all perfect for the sandbox mercenary company campaign I've had sitting in the back of my head for years.
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I personally have been interested in the premise of Brevoy for quite some time. While LO:Absalom has given plenty of resources for a very in depth politics first campaign, I am still very much craving for Brevoy content. I would be happy to get an in depth look at the cultures of Rostland and Issia as well as of each of the major houses and maybe even some of the more minor houses. On top of that I would be interested in any new locations in the region. Dungeons, towns, miscellaneous adventure ideas, all perfect for the sandbox mercenary company campaign I've had sitting in the back of my head for years.
Oh, I'd play the HECK out of a campaign like that! :D
What all do folks want or need, in terms of Numerian tech? I imagine a Technology Guide isn’t exactly 2e’s style, due to the narrow focus.
If I can just get back the elemental damage guns (inferno pistol, zero rifle, etc) I’m honestly pretty content, but I know some people absolutely loved all the cybernetics.
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I definitely enjoyed the cybernetics. I wish they would add projectile firearms in addition to the elemental guns. Still future tech, probably some sort of helical rail gun or something.
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One thing I definitely want more of: aliens in context! 1e sources present individual Lashuntas and Kasathas in nothing larger than very small groups, mostly directly tied to the Silver Mount wreck... but the Rain of Stars was over nine thousand years ago. That's just shy of twice as long as the span of time between us and the first dynasty of Ancient Egypt. Even with some being trapped in stasis, enough have to exist and gotten out that there's some sort of cultural footprint there.
We know Lady Altouna, ruler of Hajoth Hakados, employed a number of troubleshooters to help secret aliens away from the Technic League to safe lives, which implies enough aliens in Numeria are around that this is a continued cause. I want to see them! There's a Witchwyrd merchant, and I'd really enjoy a neighborhood of her Kasatha cousins spring up around that shop. Surely some verdant swamp hosts Lashunta in touch with the greenery of this world that's become their home?
The Ancestry Guide gave Androids a much-needed injection of their own culture despite being Rare, and I'd like the other aliens of the region to get the same treatment.
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Kasatha thing I think is result of creative differences, like I think some writers preferred idea "kasatha exists in modern day as results of individuals in stasis" while other writers put in references to small isolated kasatha tribes descending from kasatha who woke up from stasis
centuries years ago :'D (I honestly prefer the latter xP)
Sidenote: I'm not actually super big fan of the starfinder introduced "every four armed species is related to witchwyrds", but that sail passed years ago x'D I mean, do we really need explanation of why there are so many four armed species but not why there are so many humanoid species with two legs and arms?
Brevoy has that classic feudal politics vibe going for it. Numeria has its sci-fi technology and alien visitors. The River Kingdoms need no introduction, seeing how rabid folks are for Kingmaker 2e. Sarkoris is homeland to a resurgent people and host to terrible fiends. Razmiran is the domain of its titular master and his cult.
What makes Mendev interesting?
With the Worldwound sealed, their defining task is done, with some (admittedly difficult!) clean-up work left. To hear the wiki tell the tale, Mendevian history basically begins in the 4600s, giving it less than two centuries of past to draw upon. The defining crisis given to it in LOWG is a lack of funding - certainly an imposing task, but not one easily lent to adventures that take place on a battle map. Does the nation have any big fans who can help me see what's missing? Is nostalgia for Wrath of the Righteous enough?
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I mean, Mendev was very much tool for Worldwound demon crusade story. It has never really gotten developed or adventured outside of that context, so its in same situation as Galt post Night of Gray Death and Sarkoris Scar(pre latter being expanded in 2e I mean): Now that primary issue has been solved, what is their new direction? I suppose it can't be just "knight feudal kingdom that is on brink of bankruptcy while still having to deal with cleaning up abyssal scabs from Scar?" since economic crisis isn't really most people's idea of fun adventure. (granted, economic depression as time period could be interesting to explore in adventures :p) Heck with Galfrey going off to heavens, that kinda means we can't expand on her personal narrative of "what she would do as a individual and a leader once she doesn't have to live in constant war anymore"
That said, let's see if inner sea world guide hooked some nice adventures there: Oki checking this estovian forest and icerift castle seem cool.
Estrovian Forest: Southern Mendev is dominated by the Estrovian Forest. Long a source of timber and game, the forest acquired a fell reputation during the First Crusade. A great huntsman from Andoran named Herne Vilhaur was mortally injured while hunting a sacred white stag in the druid groves of the Estrovian Forest and was abandoned by his companions, who named him a deserter and a turncoat to cover their own absence. The druids of the forest, their people being steadily dispossessed by the inf lux of well-armed foreigners, found in Herne the tool of their vengeance. They hanged him from an ancient oak in the northern reaches of the forest and laid upon him the “curse of the winterthorn,” transforming him into a stag-horned avenging spirit. Warped by the druids’ magic and his own undying hatred for them and for his faithless companions, Herne made his creators his first victims and soon forgot all but his own name, his burning malice, and the urge to hunt. In the years that followed, Herne’s predations gave native Mendevians and southern interlopers alike a new name for fear in the chill winter night, passing down his awful curse to create a race of stag-crowned dark hunters who live amid winter wolves or great snowy owls. At his passing, these “hernes,” who bore his name, buried him at the foot of the very oak where he had his unholy rebirth. This ground is sacred to the hernes, and while their progenitor’s barrow is said to be rich in funerary treasures, travelers in the Estrovian Forest venture near Herne’s Oak only at grave peril.
Icerift Castle: Mendev has relatively few traditional dungeons that have not already been plundered, thanks to a century of crusaders motivated both by piety and by greed. One little-touched location, however, dates from the First Crusade, when crusaders began construction on a fortress on the high ice near the Crown of the World to command the extreme northern frontier. Icerift Castle was abandoned when only partially complete, as it was decided it would be too difficult to resupply and reinforce. When the workers and garrison were to return home, crusaders sent to escort them discovered all had been slaughtered and their hearts torn out, without evidence of demonic taint. The native Mendevians blamed the slaughter on the legendary wendigo, and the site was placed under anathema and stricken from crusader records. Fell rumors persist of what lurks within.
So if nothing else, there is at least few flavorful adventuring locations already detailed.
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Honestly, yes, I feel like both in-universe and out the big question surrounding Mendev is "The war is over...what now?"
It's a domain that has been defined by war for literal centuries, and both it and its people are kind of adrift...They're helping against the remaining demons, but the people of the Sarkoris Scar are the ones leading in those efforts, leaving Mendev in a supporting role when it's used to being the main character.
To say nothing of the fact that GM's may try to use the PC game endings where Mendev has lost territory (Drezen declaring independence) or has even been annexed by ISGER of all places!
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I desperately want to see more of the Sarkorian diaspora, and with so much of the Sarkoris Scar still demon-infested and raining blood, I imagine quite a few at least do some of their resting and resupply within Mendev. With the mention of non-Sarkorian god-callers in Gods & Magic, I think that sort of collaborative, syncretic, "how do we be more than just crusader-colonizers" spin is the best way to tackle Mendev going forward. The Mendevian people need an identity, and closing the Worldwound is only one piece of that.
In my dreams, the Sarkorian Reclaimers are one of the major PF2 factions; I find them a lot more interesting than some of the other options to get the spotlight. It bums me out how little we saw of the Sarkorians in the efforts to save their homeland in 1e, and I hope 2e can rectify that whenever we do return to the Broken Lands.
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I know! Sarkoris has probably been my all-time favorite part of the lore, as it drew on a lot of Celtic inspiration and with Mendev acting as a Kellid land with kind of a colonising Taldan presence made it feel VERY much like Arthurian Britain, both things I'm an absolute SUCKER for, and I was a tad disappointed things started in 1e after Sarkoris' apocalypse, so when Wrath of the Righteous rolled around I was like "This is my chance! I can play a descendent of Sarkorian survivors in Mendev looking to rediscover his heritage and reclaim his ancestral home!"
So Arloric Dziergas-Highbough was born after a bunch of revisions, and I'm still playing him to this day! And I'm looking forward to revising him again for the PC version of the AP...
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I know! Sarkoris has probably been my all-time favorite part of the lore, as it drew on a lot of Celtic inspiration and with Mendev acting as a Kellid land with kind of a colonising Taldan presence made it feel VERY much like Arthurian Britain, both things I'm an absolute SUCKER for, and I was a tad disappointed things started in 1e after Sarkoris' apocalypse, so when Wrath of the Righteous rolled around I was like "This is my chance! I can play a descendent of Sarkorian survivors in Mendev looking to rediscover his heritage and reclaim his ancestral home!"
So Arloric Dziergas-Highbough was born after a bunch of revisions, and I'm still playing him to this day! And I'm looking forward to revising him again for the PC version of the AP...
I've personally enjoyed the bits of PNW native cultures we've seen creep into the 2e Sarkorians, but you're totally right that the druidic focus of the 1e materials lends itself well to that post-Roman British feel that's so rarely done in fantasy!
I think it's silly that the notion of Sarkorian descendants living in Mendev never seems to have come up, with its pre-Worldwound past instead being vaguely Iobarian. You could get some interesting character tension there - what does it mean to be of Sarkorian heritage, when the Worldwound opened over a century ago and your family's been Iomedean for three generations? 2e has gestured some at Mendevian folks adopting Sarkorian traditions, but that bleed over happens both ways.
Part of Mendev's identity crisis is that it feels like a vaguely Taldan, classic crusader kingdom, but between how diverse the ranks of the Mendevian Crusades were and the fact that people lived in Mendev before the Worldwound, there should be more variety and texture there. The nation's current ruler is from Thuvia, and the local Pathfinder Society venture-captain is Garundi - those cultural influences should come through a little more.
EDIT: Arloric sounds great! What class is he?
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EDIT: Arloric sounds great! What class is he?
Initially he was a Nature Fang Druid, but I did get permission from one of the GMs (we're on our third one for this campaign) to rebuild him as a Filidh Bard, to more closely tie him to the Irish/Romano-British vibe I wanted to give him! He's working towards the Green Faith Acolyte prestige class for the best of both bard and druid worlds. He's a tiefling...but HE doesn't know that, and thinks he's just a human with a weird eye after a demon clawed his face as a kid. Gonna be a little hard to recreate him in the PC game though, as tieflings are playable, but obvious, and neither of those archetypes are available.
I want a much bigger expose on Razmiran.
I also am hoping for a 6-part AP called "Ramzir Must Die"
I want a much bigger expose on Razmiran.
I also am hoping for a 6-part AP called "Ramzir Must Die"
I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I feel like Razmir needs the full 1-20. The bulk of his followers are just normal people, with some arcane talent among the higher ups. I’m amenable to being sold on it, though - what parts of Razmiran would you want a full campaign to delve into?
I think it's silly that the notion of Sarkorian descendants living in Mendev never seems to have come up, with its pre-Worldwound past instead being vaguely Iobarian. You could get some interesting character tension there - what does it mean to be of Sarkorian heritage, when the Worldwound opened over a century ago and your family's been Iomedean for three generations? 2e has gestured some at Mendevian folks adopting Sarkorian traditions, but that bleed over happens both ways.
I do recall that Sarkorians and god callers play a role in several pfs scenarios. Not a ton, but still notable.
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I think it's silly that the notion of Sarkorian descendants living in Mendev never seems to have come up, with its pre-Worldwound past instead being vaguely Iobarian. You could get some interesting character tension there - what does it mean to be of Sarkorian heritage, when the Worldwound opened over a century ago and your family's been Iomedean for three generations? 2e has gestured some at Mendevian folks adopting Sarkorian traditions, but that bleed over happens both ways.I do recall that Sarkorians and god callers play a role in several pfs scenarios. Not a ton, but still notable.
Even then, those stories are about outsiders helping the Sarkorians. I want a little more love for Sarkorians as the heroes themselves.
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Honestly, yes, I feel like both in-universe and out the big question surrounding Mendev is "The war is over...what now?"
Exactly!
I think it's silly that the notion of Sarkorian descendants living in Mendev never seems to have come up, with its pre-Worldwound past instead being vaguely Iobarian. You could get some interesting character tension there - what does it mean to be of Sarkorian heritage, when the Worldwound opened over a century ago and your family's been Iomedean for three generations? 2e has gestured some at Mendevian folks adopting Sarkorian traditions, but that bleed over happens both ways.
Part of Mendev's identity crisis is that it feels like a vaguely Taldan, classic crusader kingdom, but between how diverse the ranks of the Mendevian Crusades were and the fact that people lived in Mendev before the Worldwound, there should be more variety and texture there. The nation's current ruler is from Thuvia, and the local Pathfinder Society venture-captain is Garundi - those cultural influences should come through a little more.
I agree with this as well. A while back I wrote something about part of what I want from Mendev:
I'd also like to see the relationship between the crusaders/their families and the original people of Mendev explored more. Mendev would've been destroyed without those warriors, but they also did a great deal of harm to the local populace and their religion, and I think it could be interesting to delve into how Mendevians feel about that and what their goals are now.
...and that still stands, but reflecting on that now, I realize there may not be a clear divide between crusader/crusader-descended and native Mendevians; those two groups definitely would've intermarried and culturally influenced one another to some degree. Reckoning with the past of your nation, and determining what its future could be, becomes even more complex when the answer to "are you a crusader, a local, or a Sarkorian refugee?" could very easily be "all of the above" for some people.
So I'd say Mendev is potentially extremely interesting from a political, anthropological, and philosophical perspective, it's just a matter of finding a way to do something with that in the context of fantasy adventuring.
Also, there's an interesting plot hook from Lost Omens Legends: the Sovereign Blade, a mysterious skymetal sword Kevoth-Kul gave to Chancellor Irahai for unknown reasons.
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I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I feel like Razmir needs the full 1-20. The bulk of his followers are just normal people, with some arcane talent among the higher ups. I’m amenable to being sold on it, though - what parts of Razmiran would you want a full campaign to delve into?I want a much bigger expose on Razmiran.
I also am hoping for a 6-part AP called "Ramzir Must Die"
Razmiran is honestly one of those places where I feel like short 3 part campaign would work slightly better than six part one since six part one would mean lot of shenanigans around "Progressively annoying the local god wizard"
I don't see them adding cybernetics to a Lost Omens book for the same reasons that guns were partitioned into Guns & Gears which is all optional stuff.
I don't see them adding cybernetics to a Lost Omens book for the same reasons that guns were partitioned into Guns & Gears which is all optional stuff.
It makes a little more sense here, because Numerian tech only really comes from one place in the setting. I could easily see a Broken Lands book have an appendix with like, 12-18 pieces of Rare gear with the Tech tag, which wouldn’t take up a crazy amount of space.
The impression I got from Guns & Gear was that while firearms and other world-altering anachronistic items are "in" Golarion, they're not going to give them mechanics except as part of AP's or optional books like Guns & Gears, but I can't pretend to know their exact intent.
Re: Ramziran, I don't care if it's a 3 or 6 part AP, as long as Razmir dies.
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The impression I got from Guns & Gear was that while firearms and other world-altering anachronistic items are "in" Golarion, they're not going to give them mechanics except as part of AP's or optional books like Guns & Gears, but I can't pretend to know their exact intent.
Guns & Gears made good sense as a product because it covered a ton of material: fantastical clockwork, steampunk inventions, and both realistic and imaginary firearms. Being in a rulebook is handy because those things can come up in a variety of contexts and locales; "Inventor" is a very broad class identity, while they established gunmaking traditions on two continents with lots of international trade. Guns & Gears has use for if your game is going to the Mana Wastes, Absalom, Ustalav, Vudra, Jinin, the Deadshot Lands...
By contrast, the high-tech stuff basically only exists in Numeria. It's pretty married to its unique place in the setting. When something only exists in one spot on the map, that feels like the domain of a Lost Omens product to me.
Re: Ramziran, I don't care if it's a 3 or 6 part AP, as long as Razmir dies.
This we're definitely on agreement on.
My suspicion is that the "Razmir dies" story is about "Razmir has already died and the extent to which his inner circle will go to prevent this from coming to light and ending their scam."
Like you can just put a different person in the mask.
Since like Razmir himself is a 19th level wizard, thus he can't be beaten by a level 10 party and wouldn't be a challenge to a level 20 party. If he himself achieved level 20, he probably wouldn't be quite so desperate. There's no longer a level 20 arcane discovery for Immortality, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to put a level 20 Wizard feat in the backmatter of an AP that makes you immune to aging just to preserve that part of the Razmir story.
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My suspicion is that the "Razmir dies" story is about "Razmir has already died and the extent to which his inner circle will go to prevent this from coming to light and ending their scam."
Like you can just put a different person in the mask.
Since like Razmir himself is a 19th level wizard, thus he can't be beaten by a level 10 party and wouldn't be a challenge to a level 20 party. If he himself achieved level 20, he probably wouldn't be quite so desperate. There's no longer a level 20 arcane discovery for Immortality, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to put a level 20 Wizard feat in the backmatter of an AP that makes you immune to aging just to preserve that part of the Razmir story.
I feel like if the story they were going to tell was "Razmir died and now Razmiran has to Weekend at Bernie's everything," we wouldn't have gotten so much set-up for the "Lord Synarr" plot with the web fiction and the Absalom book.
Now, does that still hound hysterical? Absolutely.
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...and that still stands, but reflecting on that now, I realize there may not be a clear divide between crusader/crusader-descended and native Mendevians; those two groups definitely would've intermarried and culturally influenced one another to some degree. Reckoning with the past of your nation, and determining what its future could be, becomes even more complex when the answer to "are you a crusader, a local, or a Sarkorian refugee?" could very easily be "all of the above" for some people.
This dynamic must be complicated by the smashing of Lastwall and the Glorious Reclamation. Mendev is the last bastion of the temporal power of the Iomedaean church, and would thus likely see an influx war refugees from Lastwall and persecuted Iomedeans from Cheliax. And these will both have a chip on their shoulder and lack the centuries of cultural integration with the Iobarians and Sarkorians that you describe for the long-term crusading Iomedeans. This would make them a fascistic element - committed to the strengthening of the hierarchy with the church and its Taldan elements on top - and force the existing Iomedean crusaders to pick a side between their brothers in faith and brothers in blood among the Sarkorians and Iobarians.
...and that still stands, but reflecting on that now, I realize there may not be a clear divide between crusader/crusader-descended and native Mendevians; those two groups definitely would've intermarried and culturally influenced one another to some degree. Reckoning with the past of your nation, and determining what its future could be, becomes even more complex when the answer to "are you a crusader, a local, or a Sarkorian refugee?" could very easily be "all of the above" for some people.This dynamic must be complicated by the smashing of Lastwall and the Glorious Reclamation. Mendev is the last bastion of the temporal power of the Iomedaean church, and would thus likely see an influx war refugees from Lastwall and persecuted Iomedeans from Cheliax. And these will both have a chip on their shoulder and lack the centuries of cultural integration with the Iobarians and Sarkorians that you describe for the long-term crusading Iomedeans. This would make them a fascistic element - committed to the strengthening of the hierarchy with the church and its Taldan elements on top - and force the existing Iomedean crusaders to pick a side between their brothers in faith and brothers in blood among the Sarkorians and Iobarians.
Interesting, that's an element I hadn't considered, although I agree with Raven Black that they likely wouldn't be fascist. What you describe sounds more like cultural imperialism (which is hardly mutually exclusive with that, but there is a difference), and I'm unsure of their ability to gain enough influence in society as recent refugees to successfully engage in that. Either way you make a good point, the losses of the Church of Iomedae in other areas probably affects Mendev's view of itself and if the survivors of those efforts arrived in significant numbers it would add a new dimension to the preexisting social issues.
Can anyone who's read Knights of Lastwall comment on this? It seems like most of the knights seeking refuge have headed more in the direction of Absalom.
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If we can’t have Asmodean Paladins and the Cult of the Dawnflower anymore, then I’m pretty sure we can rule out fascist Iomedeans. The idea that refugees from a supernatural cataclysm (Lastwall) and religious oppression (Cheliax) would come over and immediately start demanding their own harm to and supremacy over… people who are survivors of a magical apocalypse and religious oppression? It doesn’t fly with me.
I have a little more faith in the average follower of Iomedae than that, especially given that she dropped LN from her alignment spread in 2e. There’s definitely still room for conflict and fiction, but painting the downtrodden of a Goodly faith as regressive, bloodthirsty jerks isn’t something I would expect from Paizo.
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I'm honestly considering a small, mostly-lore Pathfinder Infinite release that talks about Crusaders, Mendevians, and Sarkorians as three distinct-but-porous identities within Mendev and the Sarkoris Scar, along with a handful of related Backgrounds. Would there be any interest in that?
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I'm honestly considering a small, mostly-lore Pathfinder Infinite release that talks about Crusaders, Mendevians, and Sarkorians as three distinct-but-porous identities within Mendev and the Sarkoris Scar, along with a handful of related Backgrounds. Would there be any interest in that?
That sounds very interesting indeed!