put "Ability Boost" in the first line for every class.


Rules Discussion


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I'm starting a new game, and every player missed the fact they get +2 to four ability scores during character generation.

I suggest you put "Ability Boost" on the table for each class at first level, like it is for 5th, 10th, etc.
Then update the Ability Boost text for each class to include 1st level, with the restriction that the first level boost can't take a score above 18.

The class description has a reminder for all the first level character options except this, and new players are missing it.


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If you missed that I would be willing to bet you also missed the free boost for taking your class as well.

p20 wrote:

Class: Your character’s class provides an ability boost to

the ability score most important to your class, called your
key ability score.


To be honest, I found that building the stats in the reverse order was waaaay more intuitive. So that means starting with your class boost and working backwards.


N N 959 wrote:
To be honest, I found that building the stats in the reverse order was waaaay more intuitive. So that means starting with your class boost and working backwards.

Same. I tend to go in order of stat boosts from least to most adjustments. So class, then background, then ancestry, and then the four you get for starting a character.

Grand Lodge

Perpdepog wrote:
N N 959 wrote:
To be honest, I found that building the stats in the reverse order was waaaay more intuitive. So that means starting with your class boost and working backwards.
Same. I tend to go in order of stat boosts from least to most adjustments. So class, then background, then ancestry, and then the four you get for starting a character.

I do the same, it's way more intuitive, and easier to make the character you are envisioning.


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Yeah I'm still sort annoyed they went with the ABC ordering for chargen. They really should have bucked tradition and just recommended players choose a class first, the class has a nice grocery list of things you need to do to create your character and it's the choice that's going to influence every other choice you make about your character. Deciding you're a Fighter first makes it much easier to figure out what Ancestry you'll take and where you'll put its bonuses, you can just add your stats together organically as you pick things rather than try to think three steps ahead.

Especially for new players, seeing that 12 in STR on their character sheet gives a great big hint as to what they should be putting their other boosts into, it's a great starting point so it's really strange that the PHB instructs you to worry about that last. It feels like forgoing CAB for ABC is just unnecessarily setting up new players for frustration.

Sovereign Court

You could phrase it as "Don't forget your ABC's and 1,2,3,4's of character creation." The ABC's are already spelled out in the books, while the 1 is for the 1 Boost for your Class, 2 from your Background, 3 from your Ancestry, and 4 from creating a first level character. It's not perfect, Humans only get 2 Boosts, and non-Humans also get 1 Flawed Ability, but it could be a good memory tool none-the-less.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Samurai wrote:
You could phrase it as "Don't forget your ABC's and 1,2,3,4's of character creation." The ABC's are already spelled out in the books, while the 1 is for the 1 Boost for your Class, 2 from your Background, 3 from your Ancestry, and 4 from creating a first level character. It's not perfect, Humans only get 2 Boosts, and non-Humans also get 1 Flawed Ability, but it could be a good memory tool none-the-less.

They cleverly went with ABC and I only just realized it is also 1234...so something the devs must have missed too!


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I prefer having ancestry and backgrounds before class.

It breaks some of the association of class being a character in and of its self, and anyone who is looking to optimise doesn't need guidance anyway.

Character creation progression should be what is ideal for new players, past that point we can adjust for what works for us. (Excluding people who skim over text the first time they are building a character of course, but there is no helping them without making the book significantly larger)


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The ABC order also makes sense when you consider 0-level characters. You start with AB, then add C when you reach level 1. I suspect something very much like this will be in the upcoming Gamemastery Guide.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:


anyone who is looking to optimise doesn't need guidance anyway.

I dunno about that, one of my players is brand new and insisted on building on her own. She came to the table with an int 12 wizard, and all her other boosts were spread around so she had a bunch of 14's. If she started out at the wizard choice and saw that intelligence was important for being a wizard, she may have made different choices. It was all very easy to fix, but still


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ABC is also the progression of living as the character. Though I tend to call it ABC4 lol.

But first your born. Ancestry.
Then you have your upbringing. Background.
Then you find your calling. Class.
Then you become an adventurer. The 4


ofMars wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:


anyone who is looking to optimise doesn't need guidance anyway.
I dunno about that, one of my players is brand new and insisted on building on her own. She came to the table with an int 12 wizard, and all her other boosts were spread around so she had a bunch of 14's. If she started out at the wizard choice and saw that intelligence was important for being a wizard, she may have made different choices. It was all very easy to fix, but still

Did she build using online resources such as Archives of Nethys, or did she build using the CRB? On pages 22-23, the CRB lists every class's key ability scores, as well as each ancestry's boosts and flaws, which should have provided some guidance if she read it.

If she went off of online sources, I could see that being an understandable point of confusion. Archives of Nethys, at least, doesn't reproduce that two-page spread.

What Ancestry and Background did she choose to go with her Wizard?

Sovereign Court

I think a good routine for building a character is:

- Think of a general thing you want to make
- Browse the classes a bit, and pick a suitable one
- Read that class and figure out what abilities you need
- Do your ABCDs then, knowing which abilities are important to you

The D can stand for "dedications" or "discretionary" or whatever. Doesn't really matter.

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