I always seem to wind up going for big, world-shattering plots. We're talking about planar collapse, wars among the gods, and end-of-the-world(s) scenarios. The problem is that you run into superhero storyline problems when you go that route, always needing to one-up yourself and fight ever-larger critters. That way lies the neutronium golem.
So here's my question for the board. As a recovering "go big" addict, how do you move a storyline from "save the everything" back to "track down the bandits?" How do you avoid anticlimax if you want to keep that campaign going?
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Previous adventurers retire and a new generation rises up to take their turn as the heroes. If world shattering things just keep happening, the inevitable fate is the utter destruction of the world. Mortals (characters and players alike) will buckle, bend and break under that continual pressure.
The computer game company Blizzard was quite brave years ago: They made a hero level downwards, over the course of a campaign. There was a solid story justification (hero's master weakened), but still it had the potential to offend many players. So they threw them two bones:
1) The hero keeps his gear.
2) After a while, the hero would level up again.
On the other hand, there is Lord of the Rings. Has been quite a while I read the books, so don't mind if I got some details wrong, but: When the hobbit returns home, he has to face a much smaller threat. Lacking most of his allies, this smaller threat was actually challenging.
It's part of the problem with too-fast levelling. Once PCs are 15th level, bandits aren't an issue any more.
I've had the PCs recruit henchmen to look after their home/mine/castle etc, and those henchmen have had the necessary lesser adventures while the PCs were saving the world.
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So here's my question for the board. As a recovering "go big" addict, how do you move a storyline from "save the everything" back to "track down the bandits?" How do you avoid anticlimax if you want to keep that campaign going?
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The obvious question for me is: Are the Players ’Go Big addicts’ too? I mean, if it’s your favorite, And their favorite, what’s the problem?
If they don’t want to ‘keep up with The Joneses,’ then it’s easy, just start with a smaller-scale module. And do that for a while.
Here’s what I do:
Low and Mid Levels adventuring is for The Prime Material Plane. Once they get high Level, IF they still love their current PCs and want to keep the group together before starting with new heroes, they go to Sigil or Galisemni or The Nine Hells or The Abyss.
….I actually don’t like World Changing campaigns. Maybe just once in a Long while if the whole group just get exhausted from the region (Taldor, perhaps). But typically when that happens we just move to Absalom or Varisia or Cheliax rather than Change the World in Taldor.
ONCE YOU ‘CHANGE THE WORLD,’ it’s no longer the setting. If the PCs want ‘Prevent the Apocalypse’ adventure climaxes, I advise you to go to Hell! (heeheehee). Or The Abyss.
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My choice would be to invent an entirely new plane of existence where super powerful beings live out ordinary lives.
Maybe the world looks exactly like the world at level 1 and as the players' explore a plot thread emerges to explain why this world is so similar.
Bandits could be CR 15 outsiders reskinned to look human and fight with shortswords and crossbows. Maybe at times they unleash their full potential to raise the question of why this normal seeming world exists.
Following as I also have the issue of “I can’t plan a simple game” Doesn’t always need to be save the world level of intensity; but my current game they are fighting for the sake of magic. If by game end they fail… magic dies in this world. Turning it to mundane and technology apocalypse.
Once you’ve saved the world, there is always an aftermath to deal with… use that aftermath to bring the players back down from their high… throw small mundane issues at them that can’t all be simply resolved with a show of force. The next big threat may take advantage of the situation even… even more likely if the next threat is a weaker threat… but when everyone is weakened and recovering from a near apocalypse is the best time to strike and be seen as a truest serious threat. If they play their cards right, the party may be sent on a grand quest for a useless mcguffin.
The problem at high levels is that magic trumps everything, so even mundane issues that can't be handled by force can probably be handled by Limited Wish.
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The problem at high levels is that magic trumps everything, so even mundane issues that can't be handled by force can probably be handled by Limited Wish.
There is a reason why a lot of GMs ban or heavily restrict access to that spell… furthermore a lot of people put way too much stock into what Wish & Limited wish can do without actually acknowledging the limitations of the spells…
For example: I have seen a lot people claim Wish can be used to resurrect someone without negative levels despite the fact that the spell quit clearly states that it in fact cannot do that.
Wish used to create the effects of a Tsunami (a 9th level spell) despite Wish being limited to replicating the effects of up to 8th level spells.
People not acknowledging the fact that Wish functions differently for effects of Arcane and Divine spells… (and the same is true for Miracle)
Gaining an “unlimited” wish is purely at GM discretion and subject to any and all interpretations the GM desires (regardless of how precisely you word it).
And the Limited Wish is even more restrictive… it’s not the Ultimate spell everyone makes it out to be… it is only as powerful as the GM allows it to be… when using Limited Wish if the effect is to powerful your GM could choose to either let it work but to a lesser degree than you had wished for or declare the wish simply failed… it’s only when your GM doesn’t understand how the spell works that you get effects like “make the town like it was never destroyed”. Which is to strong of an effect for even Wish BTW.
But it doesn't have to be Limited Wish itself; it can just as easily be any of the myriad spells that it emulates. Teleport, scry, charm, dominate, fabricate, commune, summon, make whole, legend lore...
We used to joke that the citizens in City of Heroes were all super high level heroes who had retired or were in their secret identities, since they were basically invulnerable.
Maybe the PCs start taking on responsibilities to fit their station. Running a kingdom, starting their own Guild, or the like, and start turning into the people who give out quests (possibly to the group's next party of level 1 characters).
If you're lucky, you'll have a group with its own goals and aspirations, and you can just ask them what sort of stories they want to see next.
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Oh, this one is simple. You don't. You can just end the campaign at the climax and start a new story. Not every campaign has to go from level 1 to level 20. A story has a beginning, a middle and an end, and at some point you can just end the campaign naturally.
There's plenty of reasons why:
- Pathfinder has that sweet spot roughly between levels 5 to 10 where the game is the most fun to play.
- You can play all those characters that you haven't played yet.
- You can play in a different setting each time.
- You don't have to pad the campaign with filler encounters.
- You can alternate between RPGs.
- You can alternate between GMs.
- It's easier to keep the focus of your players if your campaigns don't take years to finish.
There's plenty of reasons why:
- Pathfinder has that sweet spot roughly between levels 5 to 10 where the game is the most fun to play.
Are there any products that support E6 or E8 play? I doubt there's anything form Paizo aside from "string together a bunch of 6th level one shots," but I'm wondering if any third party types have down an E6 AP. It would be nice to stay in that sweet spot for longer.
I'm a levels 8 to 12 kind of person. I enjoy the game at all levels of play but something about that range just feels right with me. Once 7th level spells start making an appearance on character sheets, things that have already been ramping up start taking an exponential curve.
Regardless of that, I really like the slow burn approach to playing the game. When I make a character, I want to explore their story to the end. Campaigns that fall apart and leave the character in limbo are somewhat irksome.