what would you use to set up a permanent telport between planets?

[Senko]

I was looking at telportation circle and it saying it functioned as greater teleport got me thinking what would you use to set up a permanent means of people travelling between two planets?

[zza ni]

i'd say, just for starters, without knowledge astronomy (for knowing where the planets are at at each moment) and knowledge arcane (to know how long the spell takes to travel from one planet to the next, as by then you might be teleported into the void\the core of the planet etc). and knowledge geography or relevant knowledge of where you are teleporting to. you will have major issues using that spell for this. after all -

- one should use the right spell for the right job. if there is already a spell for interplanar teleportation, you are not supposed to use an other version and expect the same results.

[Ryze Kuja]

Tbh, what you're asking for isn't possible per the rules as currently written, but you *could* easily homebrew something that performs this as long as your GM is cool with it. There's a couple of ways: Permanent Gate is probably the easiest/cheapest option, or Interplanetary Teleport + Permanent Teleportation Circle, where you create a Permanent Teleportation Circle that casts Interplanetary Teleport instead of Greater Teleport.

As far as the Permanency cost for your new homebrew spell Interplanetary Teleportation Circle, I'd probably consider that to be a level 11 spell.

[Te'Shen]

zza ni wrote:

. . . and knowledge arcane (to know how long the spell takes to travel from one planet to the next . . . .

SRD wrote:

Teleportation

Source PRPG Core Rulebook
Definition Type Subschool
A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.

One nit pick. The rest of your points still stand... unless the point you were making was that with some sort of giant telescope, you're still chasing the light, which would also be a fair argument.

Which now makes me wonder, could you use remote viewing to another planet (probably the closest one, like Earth to Mars) to then cast greater scrying and then to cast greater teleport rather than interplanetary teleport... Could a refugee, like Lashunta in the Iron Gods game, be good enough to give you second hand, or maybe even firsthand knowledge, to let you scry the other planet and then use the scrying to target a teleport?

Now I'm thinking of the Stargate dialing in other locations...

[Zepheri]

my gm put the GATE spell to act as a portal but based in the caster lvl:

caster lv 17: same continent
caster lv 18: same planet
caster lv 19: same solar sistem
caster lv 20: other sistem
caster lv 21+: other plane

[VoodistMonk]

There are multiple ways to establish links between people that span any distance... there are multiple ways to gain immortality...

Have eternal gatekeepers at set locations on each planet, and have these aforementioned eternal gatekeepers be both linked together and capable of casting Interplanetary Teleport. The gates aren't always-open wormhole portals that one could walk back and forth through all willy-nilly, but essentially open on command within the capacity of the spell [Interplanetary Teleport].

[Themetricsystem]

I think this is where you should start and while it doesn't offer much in the way of giving you a mechanical or price guideline it can get across the scope of the magic and power used and needed to make this happen in the setting.

Elf gates, or aiudara, are pretty much exactly what you're talking about. Getting access to the Key used to activate them and finding one to repair could easily be a major arc for whatever story you're telling given how monumentally powerful and important these types of teleportation arrays are.
There is also a bit of rules for the use of these if you're inclined to look at them. The PF lore states that they aren't used for interplanetary travel... but if it suits the needs of your game you shouldn't really feel uncomfortable using them this way.

I hope this helps!

[VoodistMonk]

It is very close to what the pools of Cynosure seem to offer... just between planets, not between planes.

[Unbegreiflich]

That's easy - you just need two items (so why get those very expensive permanent interplanetary teleport rings);
Ring Gates, none, $40000. Get one where you are and one where you want to go... then (the Pour Man's method) a Large blender for guys wearing a ring of regeneration that don't fit through the rings... or a Portable Hole, none, $20000, to fit them in, roll it up, then pass through the ring (hopefully it unfurls on it's own at the other end), of course you could just use Gaseous Form....

[Senko]

Themetricsystem wrote:

I think this is where you should start and while it doesn't offer much in the way of giving you a mechanical or price guideline it can get across the scope of the magic and power used and needed to make this happen in the setting.

Elf gates, or aiudara, are pretty much exactly what you're talking about. Getting access to the Key used to activate them and finding one to repair could easily be a major arc for whatever story you're telling given how monumentally powerful and important these types of teleportation arrays are.
There is also a bit of rules for the use of these if you're inclined to look at them. The PF lore states that they aren't used for interplanetary travel... but if it suits the needs of your game you shouldn't really feel uncomfortable using them this way.

I hope this helps!

The elf gates were something I was thinking of an how they were first made.

[Gilfalas]

Senko wrote:

I was looking at telportation circle and it saying it functioned as greater teleport got me thinking what would you use to set up a permanent means of people travelling between two planets?

Would it not be a custom magic item based on the Interplanetary Teleport Spell?

Is that not how the Elven Gates were made in Golarions history?

Even if that is not how they were made that seems the way to go. Use activated/unlimited use. (gonna be crazy pricey but then it should be)

[Senko]

Not that pricey if you look at it that way . . .

Gateway of the Stars
Allows travel to other planets but no protection for the conditions there.
Cost: 360,000 gold (9th level spell x 20th level caster x 2,000 gold)

I mean its not cheap but for what it does not that bad especially as this is market price creation would be half this and this is just a base use activated price. If you limit it to specific targets rather than any planet in the universe (galaxy?) you could potentially even pull the price down. Say put in a skill knowledge (Astronomy . . . nature?) and it drops to 324,000. Maybe drop the price again by 30% similar to aligment restrictions if you have it only tied to a place e.g. you can use it to go from Golarion to Eox but not any any location of your choice, need to look into how the elf gates work. Not to mention any other discounts like hedge mage and as I said this is market price making it you drop to 162,000 GP. That's within the reach of a 20th level character if you wanted to go that route. Hmmmm.

[Gilfalas]

Senko wrote:

Not that pricey if you look at it that way . . .

Gateway of the Stars
Allows travel to other planets but no protection for the conditions there.
Cost: 360,000 gold (9th level spell x 20th level caster x 2,000 gold)

If 180,000 GP is not pricey in your games I am intrigued to see what IS pricey in your game. ;)

[Senko]

Gilfalas wrote:

Senko wrote:

Not that pricey if you look at it that way . . .

Gateway of the Stars
Allows travel to other planets but no protection for the conditions there.
Cost: 360,000 gold (9th level spell x 20th level caster x 2,000 gold)

If 180,000 GP is not pricey in your games I am intrigued to see what IS pricey in your game. ;)

I was thinking in terms of a 20th level character's wealth. The difference between what I as a DND character (last test I did said I was a lvl 3 sorcerer/level 2 ranger would consider expensive and a 20th level sorcerer/ranger would feel is expensive is very different.

[Temperans]

There is actually a lot of ways to handle this:

* A custom magic item that casts interplanetary teleport. As you mentioned.

* A permanent demiplane with 2+ portals. This one can be expanded to effectively be a "hub world". Or you can create multiple demiplanes linked to each other to decentralize the whole thing: Effectively making it a maze of hub worlds.

* Create a lesser Portal Nerwork artifact that only works in the same plane. (This one has the benefits of being more difficult to destroy/copy).

* Create a regular Portal Network artifact.

* The Starfinder method of: Make a spaceship that can planar travel as a sort of "hyperspeed" or "warp bubble". But you know it's more like gate or plane shift into a faster to travel demiplane (Ex: shadow plane).

* You could create an Arcane engine artifact that effectively works like interplanetary teleport but with conditions. (It has already been done in Golarion lore but with no info as to how it works).

*************************
As long as the conditions are harsh to meet and the thing is difficult to build anything should be fine.

[Senko]

Temperans wrote:

There is actually a lot of ways to handle this:

* A custom magic item that casts interplanetary teleport. As you mentioned.

* A permanent demiplane with 2+ portals. This one can be expanded to effectively be a "hub world". Or you can create multiple demiplanes linked to each other to decentralize the whole thing: Effectively making it a maze of hub worlds.

* Create a lesser Portal Nerwork artifact that only works in the same plane. (This one has the benefits of being more difficult to destroy/copy).

* Create a regular Portal Network artifact.

* The Starfinder method of: Make a spaceship that can planar travel as a sort of "hyperspeed" or "warp bubble". But you know it's more like gate or plane shift into a faster to travel demiplane (Ex: shadow plane).

* You could create an Arcane engine artifact that effectively works like interplanetary teleport but with conditions. (It has already been done in Golarion lore but with no info as to how it works).

*************************
As long as the conditions are harsh to meet and the thing is difficult to build anything should be fine.

I like the hubworld idea. The Silver Maiden is a mythic artifact spelljammer style ship that does travel in real space (and between planes) 2d20 days in system and 2d20 weeks to travel between systems. Slower than Starfinder over short distances but faster over long ones (or their remote/local style of travel) in potential. 2 days to go from one side of the galaxy to another as long as you know where your going.

[Temperans]

Senko wrote:

I like the hubworld idea. The Silver Maiden is a mythic artifact spelljammer style ship that does travel in real space (and between planes) 2d20 days in system and 2d20 weeks to travel between systems. Slower than Starfinder over short distances but faster over long ones (or their remote/local style of travel) in potential. 2 days to go from one side of the galaxy to another as long as you know where your going.

Which makes sense when you consider that Starfinder is way in the distant future.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Gilfalas wrote:

Senko wrote:

Not that pricey if you look at it that way . . .

Gateway of the Stars
Allows travel to other planets but no protection for the conditions there.
Cost: 360,000 gold (9th level spell x 20th level caster x 2,000 gold)

If 180,000 GP is not pricey in your games I am intrigued to see what IS pricey in your game. ;)

I won't say this is an insignificant cost in our game but it is not an immense amount either.

[Claxon]

Senko wrote:

I was looking at telportation circle and it saying it functioned as greater teleport got me thinking what would you use to set up a permanent means of people travelling between two planets?

We already have that. The Elf Gates go to Castrovel.

Edit: To expand on my statement, I wouldn't let this be something players can pay to create. This an artifact level capability IMO.

Sure you can definitely manage it on a non-permanent basis pretty easily.

Plane shifting twice will get you within 500 miles of your destination.

However, for a permanent basis (as a GM) I would definitely make this an artifact and require a quest to come up with a ritual with expensive components and lengthy time involvement and would only be useable to create one pair of gates (there should be reasons we don't see other gates like this being created since the Elf gates).

[Carrauntoohil]

Claxon wrote:

We already have that. The Elf Gates go to Castrovel.

Not quite.

That isn't an elf-gate, it's a portal upon which the elf-gates were modeled.

[Senko]

Does any of the published content reveal what happened to Candelaron or is he a mystery like Aroden?

[Claxon]

Carrauntoohil wrote:

Claxon wrote:

We already have that. The Elf Gates go to Castrovel.

Not quite.

That isn't an elf-gate, it's a portal upon which the elf-gates were modeled.

I guess that could be one take, but I'm not sure I agree with it fully.

The portal that links Kyonin (Golarion) to Sovyrian (Castrovel) is powered by the Sovyrian Stone, the same atrifact that powers the Aiudara. I guess technically those are separate things, but to me it's a bit like separating Facebook from Meta.

[Carrauntoohil]

Claxon wrote:

I guess that could be one take, but I'm not sure I agree with it fully.

The lore is explicit that they are different things:

Distant Worlds - pg53 wrote:

Few realize, however, that the portal binding Golarion to Sovyrian was not one of their legendary aiudara (or “elf gates”) which link locations on a single world, but rather one of a network of interplanetary portals that predate the elves' existence

[Carrauntoohil]

Senko wrote:

Does any of the published content reveal what happened to Candelaron or is he a mystery like Aroden?

I'm not aware of any revelation.

[Claxon]

Carrauntoohil wrote:

Claxon wrote:

I guess that could be one take, but I'm not sure I agree with it fully.

The lore is explicit that they are different things:

Distant Worlds - pg53 wrote:

Few realize, however, that the portal binding Golarion to Sovyrian was not one of their legendary aiudara (or “elf gates”) which link locations on a single world, but rather one of a network of interplanetary portals that predate the elves' existence

That makes no sense though.

The Sovyrian Stone which is said to control the portal was crafted by Candlaron, an elven hero. The same stone that also powers the elf gates.

Unless the implication is that the portal existed prior to the Sovyrian Stone with some other means to create it. It's unclear.

Regardless! The magic used to do this is ancient artifact level magic and whatever in game method is decided upon should be similar in scope (i.e. artifact level magic). So I stand by my earlier point.

[Senko]

Claxon wrote:

Carrauntoohil wrote:

Claxon wrote:

I guess that could be one take, but I'm not sure I agree with it fully.

The lore is explicit that they are different things:

Distant Worlds - pg53 wrote:

Few realize, however, that the portal binding Golarion to Sovyrian was not one of their legendary aiudara (or “elf gates”) which link locations on a single world, but rather one of a network of interplanetary portals that predate the elves' existence

That makes no sense though.

The Sovyrian Stone which is said to control the portal was crafted by Candlaron, an elven hero. The same stone that also powers the elf gates.

Unless the implication is that the portal existed prior to the Sovyrian Stone with some other means to create it. It's unclear.

Regardless! The magic used to do this is ancient artifact level magic and whatever in game method is decided upon should be similar in scope (i.e. artifact level magic). So I stand by my earlier point.

To be fair that artifact does a lot more than I'm looking for it doesn't just control the portal there it also powers all the other elf gates.

[Claxon]

Senko wrote:

To be fair that artifact does a lot more than I'm looking for it doesn't just control the portal there it also powers all the other elf gates.

But all the canonical examples (I'm aware of) of permanent interplanetary teleportation are artifact level stuff. Not having been reproduced by other means.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it should be an artifact level achievement which should mostly be governed by the GM.

[Senko]

Claxon wrote:

Senko wrote:

To be fair that artifact does a lot more than I'm looking for it doesn't just control the portal there it also powers all the other elf gates.

But all the canonical examples (I'm aware of) of permanent interplanetary teleportation are artifact level stuff. Not having been reproduced by other means.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it should be an artifact level achievement which should mostly be governed by the GM.

Oh not arguing against that (why I didn't say anything earlier) just pointing out that particular artifact also functions as an arcane battery for an uknown number of elf gates as well as controlling the portal they didn't build.

I also tend not to personally put artifact creation out of reach of 20th level characters. It may take research and funds but someone had to build the original and while there are rare cases of things that can't be duplicated for one reason or another e.g. ...

Wizard Mentor: "To make this potion of immortality you need 5 dodo eggs."
Wizard Student: "Aren't Dodo's extinct?"
Wizard Mentor: "Why do you think I'm not immortal?"

However generally speaking knowing something can be done is one of the biggest hurdles to creating something. Its why I view with suspicion any claims of "I could have done/invented that" unless you have actually invented something NEW and UNIQUE then no you probably couldn't have invented that at the time it was invented. Go back 200 years and you can reproduce all sorts of things water power, steam power, 3 field irrigation but creating a new idea that's rare. It's why I make a strong divide in my games between "intelligent" and "Genius". A genius is someone who creates new things. You can have 540 intelligence but not necessarily have that spark of genius to create just like you can have 3 intelligence and still be a genius because you think "Hmmm this plant is interesting if I put it on this stick and pull this other stick back into the . . . the . . . string! I can kill that toothy tiger without it being able to bite me." But I'm veering into other topics.

Point is a 20th level character has resources and abilities that are pretty much peak level mortal power and know something can be done because its right there where they can see it. So unless your talking about something made by a good or a mythic being a 20th level character should be able to figure out a way to duplicate it e.g. philosophers stone is an artifact and a 20th level alchemists discovery to make 1 a month.

[Carrauntoohil]

Claxon wrote:

That makes no sense though.

The Sovyrian Stone which is said to control the portal was crafted by Candlaron, an elven hero. The same stone that also powers the elf gates.

Unless the implication is that the portal existed prior to the Sovyrian Stone with some other means to create it. It's unclear.

Well, nobody can ask Candlaron because he's vanished. But my assumption is that he worked out how to control a pre-existing portal for which the original (and correct) method was long lost. Like someone hooking a car battery up to power other electrical devices or something.

Also, I cannot pronounce his name as anything other than 'candle-ron' in my head and that name inspires images of thick 1970's mustache.

Quote:

Regardless! The magic used to do this is ancient artifact level magic and whatever in game method is decided upon should be similar in scope (i.e. artifact level magic). So I stand by my earlier point.

Absolutely agreed on that point. In fact, this points to it being super-mega-ultra artifact level because elf-gates are artifact level magic in any case so portals would be even artifactier.

[Carrauntoohil]

Senko wrote:

To be fair that artifact does a lot more than I'm looking for it doesn't just control the portal there it also powers all the other elf gates.

My interpretation of events is that the Stone was designed to empower and control the elf-gates and by accident or coincidence it resonated with the portal and allowed it to be re-opened and used.

I would expect that the magic required to create and direct a portal would be even more advanced than the Stone.

I have nothing to base that on, mind you. But I think it makes for a cool story.

[Temperans]

I mean it was left intentionally vague so GMs can be creative about all that stuff (it also saves them the trouble).

[Te'Shen]

Senko wrote:

. . . However generally speaking knowing something can be done is one of the biggest hurdles to creating something. . . It's why I make a strong divide in my games between "intelligent" and "Genius". . .

Point is a 20th level character has resources and abilities that are pretty much peak level mortal power and know something can be done because its right there where they can see it. So unless your talking about something made by a good or a mythic being a 20th level character should be able to figure out a way to duplicate it e.g. philosophers stone is an artifact and a 20th level alchemists discovery to make 1 a month.

That's a fair point, the difference between Intelligence and Inspiration. It also bares pointing out that most fantasy medieval type settings are terrible at passing along information and innovating in general, such that the information critical mass that tends to lead to certain advances would rarely happen in such a setting. It's not that it couldn't happen, but it would be more of the statistical outlier, the once in an elf's life time kind of event... And when you think about necessity being the mother of invention, magic just causes stagnation because it fills in some gaps and you don't have to develop the in-between principles and concepts.

Then again, I could be wrong...

[Senko]

Te'Shen wrote:

Senko wrote:

. . . However generally speaking knowing something can be done is one of the biggest hurdles to creating something. . . It's why I make a strong divide in my games between "intelligent" and "Genius". . .

Point is a 20th level character has resources and abilities that are pretty much peak level mortal power and know something can be done because its right there where they can see it. So unless your talking about something made by a good or a mythic being a 20th level character should be able to figure out a way to duplicate it e.g. philosophers stone is an artifact and a 20th level alchemists discovery to make 1 a month.

That's a fair point, the difference between Intelligence and Inspiration. It also bares pointing out that most fantasy medieval type settings are terrible at passing along information and innovating in general, such that the information critical mass that tends to lead to certain advances would rarely happen in such a setting. It's not that it couldn't happen, but it would be more of the statistical outlier, the once in an elf's life time kind of event... And when you think about necessity being the mother of invention, magic just causes stagnation because it fills in some gaps and you don't have to develop the in-between principles and concepts.

Then again, I could be wrong...

The flip side of that is that you have organizations like the Mgumbaya actively spreading and gathering knowledge, faster travel and communication, longer/healthier lifespans for the wealthy and other changes in Golarion vs the real world that would be progressing knowledge. Even in our world I'm not sure how much of stagnation was a result of hoarding knowledge vs no need to change, destruction of libraries and empires and other things that work against progress combined with people dying from injuries/getting sick in a way that isn't likely in Golarion. The king is gravely wounded - cure wounds vs the king is gravely wounded have a leach and drink this whisky while we cut off the remains of your arm to try and bind it up.

Then on top of that you have the magical threats and otherworldly horrors pulling magic away from solving the common people problems in favour of keeping eldritch horrors from beyond the stars using them as breeding stock. I suppose it comes down to do you see magic as a WallE type situation of all our needs are met we shall lounge here and stare at the screen or a case files of henri davenforth situation where magic is still helping people (ofuda to help ward off disease purchased in corner stores) but continues to progress and have its own problems (ofuda not working and people are getting sick why?).

That's a good series I recommend incidentally. Woman from our world gets kidnapped by an evil witch and later pairs up with a magical investigator for the capital cities police. Nice blend of detective mystery, victorian era magic progressing and someone from the modern era introducing ideas to that earlier era such as CPR and fingerpriting. It also has magic integrated into the populations daily lives.