When you want to show off a new BBEG, kicking puppies and heartlessly slaughtering your own minions can be an efficient introduction. Mistreating your own guys is useful shorthand for “I am a bad guy.” It's also slightly old hat.
My question to the community: When you’ve got your own BBEG to introduce, how do you convey to your players that they’re pure, dag-nasty evil?
I had an Evil Wizard who was level 28 that the PC's were supposed to meet, but the PC's (who were also Evil) were level 15-16ish at the time and they wanted to meet the infamous "Gatekeeper" because they needed to find some highly obscure plane of existence, and I didn't want them to think "oh hey lets attack this douche and take his stuff". So, to illustrate his level of evilness and power, when they arrived at his mansion, the Evil Wizard wasn't there, but he had a Glabrezu and a Mohrg as minions, and a despair-ridden catatonic Solar Angel in the corner of his personal library who was magically chained up on his hands and knees and his wings had been sawed off. One of the PC's tried to talk to the Solar Angel, and all he would say was "please.... find... my master....", and when the PC entreated him to go on, he would refuse to say his own name or his master's name... presumably out of fear of punishment from the Evil Wizard. And since the Evil Wizard wasn't there yet, the Glabrezu showed them around. The 3rd floor had 20-ish permanent Gate spells to different planes of existence, and his library had a wide assortment of books, including books like Mordenkainen's Practical Guide to Killing Demigods, How to use Greater Wish for Fun and Profit, and Mythic Creature Codex. The Evil Wizard conveniently arrived via Gate spell after the unofficial tour was over, and while the PC's were talking to him about their dilemma, any time he needed anything from around his mansion, he would simply open a Gate, nonchalantly reach through and grab whatever he needed, and then end the Gate, as if casting 9th level Gate spells were like cantrips to him.
Also, one of the best ways you can introduce a BBEG is through a lie. PC's hate being lied to. So, if the BBEG appears to be the PC's friend and sends them off to do XX or YY and double-crosses or tricks them, or the PC's finally have that "Aha!" moment when they've fallen into a trap or lured into a situation where they're hopelessly surrounded, that is an instantly triggering moment for creating the PC's abject and irredeemable hatred towards the BBEG.
If I want an instant reaction I will do something really unoriginal like:
* The villain announces the PC’s doom while smiling evilly.
* An evil aura washes over everyone.
* The villain has an obviously horrific appearance.
* The villain is doing something obviously evil like an evil ritual.
* The villain has obviously evil servants.
* Muahahahaha!
If I don’t need an instant reaction then I won’t make any special effort to indicate how evil the BBEG is. Sometimes half the fun is figuring out who the bad guy really is.
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I've probably been influenced by villains like Luthor or Xanatos growing up and I generally prefer to not go down the "Evil? Yes I suppose your petty morality would call me that, now excuse me while I rip this childs eyes out and turn them into a doll." route. I mean yes you do have your villains who do that but generally my view of the big bad is something that doesn't need to arbitarily kill a minion to prove themselves.
Personal taste I suppose and while there is a certain vibe to overt evil I feel a big bad is beyond the "You failed me, die." approach to minion management. What they have is ruthlessness a minion failing is met with "Why? how? who? ok send forces to wipe that country off the map and make sure to bring me their head as proof."
That said if you want to try and demonstrate evil some possible options are if you have the typical murder hobo players when they run into the big bad have them offer them a job as new minions while listing statistics of the numbers they've killed, orphaned, stolen from. Alternatively go with old "Tell me do you remember X? No I thought not, no one ever does anymore just as no one will remember your homelands." In a similar vein you could have them holding a baby and respond to the heros arrival with "One moment I need to send someone a message" before slicing off a hand/foot.
I'm a big fan of sarcasm and artless lying.
"I didn't realize that had happened, I'll do everything in my power to fix it!" <continues eating>
"Oh that, yeah, it's for the greater good. Probably."
"Whoa! this is the first I've heard about this. Irene, come take the complaint of these poor fellows then bring it up to the belvedere with you."
"Well, aren't you all very dangerous looking! Could you give me a moment? You have me quite on edge, and I'd really prefer to have pants on in case you decide to make this ugly."
the real evil guys in my game make a point to take the party's stuff.
i had:
gremlins go off with the paladin's mount (unconscious) to be later found shaven, dyed pink and glued to the town bell tower's...bell.
the BBEG call out for his muscle to 'send them on their way'. said guy pull out his adamantium greatsword and sunder the tank's prized magical weapon.
an other BBEG confronting the party in a room with lattice floor gapping with holes. having his minions throw itching and choking powder at them. not including the normal hard to fight off effect. they drop their held items which fall to the floor below where he keep 'Sweetie' - his beloved Rust monster...
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I rarely expect my BBEG to be opposed because they are evil (as I am lax with alignments and sometimes my players end up being evil themselves and not swayed by heroic sentiments) so my BBEG introduction and motivation is usually a direct threat to the characters.
Make sure the players understand that it's not up to them to oppose him or not, but rather the BBEG plans require the players demise.
In one of my campaigns the BBEG was a nascent demon lord who deals with soul collection who was already defeated before the campaign started. To most of the world the resurrection of this Demon lord was an irrelevant event affecting the abyss and matters that are far far away from the concerns of the material plane.
The players being marked as sacrifice to be part of his resurrection was something that the party simply couldn't ignore, no matter if they had a Dhampir Antipaladin from Geb and a Kuthite Shackleborn Tiefling.
Knowing that you touched a no no artifact and a demonlord can pluck your soul from another plane if he ever gets resurrected it's enough motivation no matter your alignment.
In another, with body horror elements, the party was infected with an alien parasite and they were trying to find a cure before it took over.
The Lepidstadt doctor that wanted to study them cared very little for their ideals, they were guinea pigs, even if the party might have been uninterested in stopping her engineered plagues to take control of the streets and her other countless unsavory medical experiments they were 100% invested in not being the ones ending up on the operating tables, especially after seeing first hand the way she was butchering people for science.
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I don't, because I don't feel like there's a need to. I don't orchestrate or force story elements nor to I overtly set things up to be explicitly dramatic in presentation or telling. I don't do campaigns with a "final boss" or a "big bad evil guy," because it isn't up to me to determine who the party will view as an ally, an antagonist, or just an element of the world that's acceptable to exist and carry on.
I focus on scenarios instead, and make sure that people are bringing in characters who will have a stake in said situation. It's important to me that the characters will want to engage in some way with the ongoing events, and I have a responsibility as a GM to let them know what types of events they'll be encountering and caution some concepts/backstories while encouraging others. But once that stage of creation is done, I believe in letting things unfold as they will.
Certainly, my campaigns have "villainous" people in them from time to time, but I simply play them as they are, with their own motivations and reasons for acting (whether those are normal and understandable or alien/borderline incomprehensible due to literally being inhuman monstrosities with unrelatable thoughts). Again, it's up to the party to decide if these entities are an acceptable part of the world or not (and also determine how they'll approach dealing with them regardless of how they feel).
For me, it's frequently the company they keep that gives the best tip-off:
* The necromancer is some sketchy-looking guy in a dark robe, but his squad of undead bodyguards tells you all you need to know.
* The townsfolk don't know much about the human wizard who occasionally comes into town for supplies, other than he's obviously wealthy. But when you get to his tower, there's not a single normal servant in the place. It's all constructs, and vicious bound fiends, and the freakish hybrid monsters that keep escaping from the lab in the basement...
* Girallons are usually just hungry and ornery, not evil, but when you hear that the infamously xenophobic kech in the area have started following one, it's easy to conclude that she's more cunning, powerful--and yes, evil--than the rest of her kind.
OTOH, the green dragon who made herself queen of the kobolds and used them to help conquer the elven homeland, culminating in devouring the royal heir on the battlefield? You know she's evil, long before you ever go near her territory.
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I like the organic storytelling approach. Without a BBEG though, how do you get to a climax within your campaigns? I can see letting the BBEG develop based upon whom the PC's fixate on, but don't you still need someone/thing to provide the antagonist, the conflict, for your party?I don't, because I don't feel like there's a need to. I don't orchestrate or force story elements nor to I overtly set things up to be explicitly dramatic in presentation or telling. I don't do campaigns with a "final boss" or a "big bad evil guy," because it isn't up to me to determine who the party will view as an ally, an antagonist, or just an element of the world that's acceptable to exist and carry on.
I focus on scenarios instead, and make sure that people are bringing in characters who will have a stake in said situation. It's important to me that the characters will want to engage in some way with the ongoing events, and I have a responsibility as a GM to let them know what types of events they'll be encountering and caution some concepts/backstories while encouraging others. But once that stage of creation is done, I believe in letting things unfold as they will.
Certainly, my campaigns have "villainous" people in them from time to time, but I simply play them as they are, with their own motivations and reasons for acting (whether those are normal and understandable or alien/borderline incomprehensible due to literally being inhuman monstrosities with unrelatable thoughts). Again, it's up to the party to decide if these entities are an acceptable part of the world or not (and also determine how they'll approach dealing with them regardless of how they feel).
Again, this is ultimately up to the party to determine. I focus on playing the characters and situations as they are. The party will create their own "monsters," so to speak, based on the situation. This does require more care, thought, and planning into the situation so that there will be an enticing scenario no matter who the party decides to air or who the party decides to fight, though it's something I've certainly gotten better at over time doing so.
Example of a scenario:
Rediscovery of an ancient trans-continental teleportation system has led to a series of swift conquests by the nation that discovered it. Much of humanity has now been violently (but successfully) united under a single banner, with talk in the air of turning the eye of conquest toward the lands controlled by longer-lived races. With the potential for an even more catastrophic war on the horizon between humanity and a united front of elves and dwarves, the campaign begins with the party being members of a mercenary company with members of mixed heritage whose leader is torn on whose side to take in the current situation.
From here, the party can truly decide to do as they like. They could wait for a conclusion to be reached and stay with the company. They could disband and strike off on their own (before or after a verdict) and form their own smaller company. They could influence the outcome of the decision in favor of the one they prefer. They could seek out a way to overthrow the current leader and make the entire company their own. They could try to play both sides against the middle as spies, working against both factions intermittently and hoping not to get caught. They could opt to investigate each more closely, trying to establish relationships with leaders on either side before they commit to a decision.
Regardless of what path they choose, the conflict is going to escalate. In the face of potential disaster, both major factions in the war will begin to make sacrifices in the name of loss. These decisions are different, and will surely have different weight to different people. One might accept the decisions of a particular general as a necessary evil in times of war, but find another choice inexcusable. Both sides have hard-willed leaders at the top who will not back down. One of these could be the final encounter...but they don't need to be.
Maybe the party actually assassinates the leader of the human forces, hoping to end the war of aggression by bringing in the more mild-mannered prince as the new king. This works! However, the prince has different plans in mind for the portal network that, once discovered, lead to fears that it might destabilize the entire plane in the vicinity of the continent -- this actually leads to the war shifting to one of aggression from the elves! The party would then need to decide to aid the elves, or decide that humanity doesn't deserve this fate -- the prince's desires are born out of a hope to improve many lives, and the elves can't prove they won't work; just that he could fail.
Every single action the party takes leads to its natural consequences. As they grow stronger, they will be capable of leaving a greater footprint on the world, and dealing with larger threats. This will also very likely lead to others looking to them with hopes, and having those burdens placed on their shoulders. Whether they choose to bear them or shrug them off is up to the party, but conflict will naturally escalate in a well-built scenario. What the final confrontation will be is impossible for me to say at the outset of a campaign I'm running, though I could certainly give four or five solid guesses. I might have an idea of who the party will face based on their ideals, or where the battle might take place based on what I know about ongoing events, but nothing is writ in stone. The outcome ultimately leads to the intersection of three factors:
-The final escalation of all the ongoing events
-The party's personal ideals and beliefs; what they will give their all to fight for (since this is what they use to establish who their real enemies are)
-The consequences and fallout of previous major events and decisions (their final opponent can't already be dead, of course, and others who might have stood in their way might opt for a different course based on past actions)
The Evil Wizard conveniently arrived via Gate spell after the unofficial tour was over, and while the PC's were talking to him about their dilemma, any time he needed anything from around his mansion, he would simply open a Gate, nonchalantly reach through and grab whatever he needed, and then end the Gate, as if casting 9th level Gate spells were like cantrips to him.
You ever read Zelazny's "Amber" books? Initiates of the Logrus reach through the multiverse to grab any item of their choosing. There's a great moment where the protagonist asks a gobsmacked human from our Shadow Earth what he wants on his extra-dimensional pizza.
The need to impress "this guys is powerful" on PCs is definitely a related idea. Especially when you're dealing with evil parties, the question, "Why can't we just kill this guys?" is something that you have to answer almost every time.
Nice job with the solar though. Brutalized prisoners is a solid evil trope.
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The Evil Wizard conveniently arrived via Gate spell after the unofficial tour was over, and while the PC's were talking to him about their dilemma, any time he needed anything from around his mansion, he would simply open a Gate, nonchalantly reach through and grab whatever he needed, and then end the Gate, as if casting 9th level Gate spells were like cantrips to him.You ever read Zelazny's "Amber" books? Initiates of the Logrus reach through the multiverse to grab any item of their choosing. There's a great moment where the protagonist asks a gobsmacked human from our Shadow Earth what he wants on his extra-dimensional pizza.
The need to impress "this guys is powerful" on PCs is definitely a related idea. Especially when you're dealing with evil parties, the question, "Why can't we just kill this guys?" is something that you have to answer almost every time.
Nice job with the solar though. Brutalized prisoners is a solid evil trope.
I have had groups where I feel I have to introduce a ridiculous "Look he's really, really, really powerful and you wont be able to hurt him" because they were the stereotype murder hobo who would kill anyone just in case they had something on them. One group murdered a merchant who'd been hired to deliver a note he was literally just a random NPC who'd been paid to hand a note to them but because he might have something worthwhile they murdered him in the middle of the market place and looted the body. That was when I abandoned that groups planned storyline in favor of "The guards come after you and when you inevitably kill them a bounty is put on your head and keeps spiralling up. You wont to be murder hobos fine from now on you can kill random creatures as I'm not going to bother trying to make a longterm plot for you."
From a storytelling perspective, although it would be difficult to pull off, I have often considered having the BBEG be not nearly as obvious. Think of Loki/Loge, Mephsitopholes, the Master, Xellos, and the like. Really charming blokes, who are incredibly skillful liars, excellent company, and more than willing to take the facade of the disinterest third party. They are concealing the poisoned dagger of their words and actions, until they are at the disadvantage.
Or the "BBEG" who isn't evil at all, just on the opposite side of the PCs. Cardinal Richelieu falls into that category. Q might, although he has done some nasty things (setting in motion an event that would prevent the existence of humanity is a particularly evil deed for someone who just wants to have a little fun torturing his favorite plaything).
The PCs might run into no end of trouble when they realize they've been on the wrong side the entire time. If they're Murderhobos like many PC groups, they might not care.
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A reminder: hate speech directed toward a group you dislike is still hate speech, let's be better than that.
The Real Housewives of Malebolge.
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Detect evil being narratively unfunI try to do the folloing things:
1: False positives. Plenty of people can be evil, and have nothing to do with actually being the antagonist. My players will wise up to this in about 3 sessions.
{. . .}
1a. The place is such a dump that it has so many real positives that you can't discern the particular positive you're looking for unless you're RIGHT THERE.
1b. To make matters worse, a lot of people (maybe even some of the PCs) are under a curse that makes them detect as Evil even if they aren't, as if they were under the effects of Greater Infernal Healing but not actually getting any fast healing. (Bonus points if said curse comes from having been the recipient of Infernal Healing and/or its Greater version too many times -- contrary to popular belief, it doesn't actually make you evil, but it sure causes interference for the Paladin/Inquisitor's radar, and can even fool their Smite Evil/Smiting Judgment, and they keep hearing voices in their head saying "Smite the Impure . . . Smite the Impure . . .".)
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Senko' post from above reminded me of the time my players went all murder-hobo during the game's main story.
so i kept tabs on all their evil deeds. then when ever they were gathering information, rumors of a mass murderer going about killing incent people pop up. made sure to obscure the fine details to prevent them from figuring too fast that the big bad guy(s) was actually them all along...
it was fun having them trying to track themselves for the bounty placed on their heads... (the rumors were never accurate enough to send them to the exact places they have been to. it was never 'they killed my brother in his farm' it was more like 'my landlord said his cousin went missing and later they found his mangled body dragged by wild dogs')
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Depends on the villain, some are obvious
IE/ in the middle of burning down a town with raiders when the PCs happen upon them. The villains ride off, generally, good-aligned PCs help the surviving villagers. (Ironically not always and then the group generally finds themselves to be misunderstood as being part of the villain's Raiders because they ran off with/after them.)
Charismatic/Intelligent based villains, if done right, the group won't notice they are the BBEG until is generally way too late and the group has helped them quite a bit.
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2 of my 3 current games feature a paladin. No matter how I plan the narrative, it ends up going like this:
Me: you enter the (insert setting for meeting the BBE here)...
Paladin player:*interrupts* I've got Detect Evil running, just a reminder
Me:*heavy sigh*… you see (insert physical description of BBE here) and yes, they're evil.Now yes, I know there's ways to obscure the alignment of the NPC or villain monster, but I often forget that or don't want to include the extra magic item on the foe. My point is that while I very much enjoy a crunchy system, sometimes mechanics get in the way of good storytelling.
I get around this problem by doing two things.
1) A paladin using Detect Evil is very obvious. Not necessarily the same as spellcasting or your eyes glowing with holy light, but it's clear to all that you are Doing Something.
2) politeness. Most places frown on people just casting spells for no apparant reason. Especially if people recognize the spell you cast/ability you use. It's like going to come in and sic their drug sniffing dog on you - not something you do unless you have a good reason to if you don't want to needlessly offend people.
Not to mention Detect Evil is worthless on low level evil characters. Same as magical auras on items with Detect Magic. Unless they are supernatural or a Cleric, most peoples Evil Aura is barely a blimp on the Paladin's Radar.
Detect Evil (non-supernatural/Cleric) auras by HD
4HD or Less - None/nondetection
5-10HD - Faint Aura
11-25HD- Moderate
26-50HD- Strong
51+ - Overwhelming
Detect Evil (Cleric/Outsider)
1HD - Faint
2-4HD - Moderate
5-10HD - Strong
11+HD - Overwhelming
The Difference in the storytelling ended up with a Paladin learning the ability to Detect Evil wasn't as useful as they had originally thought, and it's a pretty common issue for most Game masters to forget about how Detect Evil/Magic/Undead work so I generally keep re-reading it myself to remember how it works.
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The paladin PC doesn't ALWAYS remember to scan for evil but when he does and I'm just making stuff up on the fly, I rarely think of all these precautions. So... this is one more reason why the PCs in my games are RARELY surprised.
That's good, imagine the looks of just the locals if the paladin went around the concentrated Gaze on 100% because they suspect evil is everywhere. The Paranoid Paladin archetype has been fairly common in more than a few games I've sat in, Games I've run, and games I've played in.
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The paladin PC doesn't ALWAYS remember to scan for evil but when he does and I'm just making stuff up on the fly, I rarely think of all these precautions. So... this is one more reason why the PCs in my games are RARELY surprised.That's good, imagine the looks of just the locals if the paladin went around the concentrated Gaze on 100% because they suspect evil is everywhere. The Paranoid Paladin archetype has been fairly common in more than a few games I've sat in, Games I've run, and games I've played in.
He's a LITTLE paranoid. Y'know what IS always "on" when the paladin PC is in town? Sense Motive. Like, seriously; any time I have a non-combat scene in the main city, even if I'm just narrating some Downtime activity, the player's always like "ummm… sense motive? Is this on the up and up?"
Sometimes folks, especially when you're level 7 and the GM's 2 most major plot points revolve around a giant megadungeon… an unnamed NPC buying one of your shields is JUST an unnamed NPC buying one of your shields.
XD so -VERY- much yes.
Sure I've had a few Con-men Merchants (Generally Travelling with other Merchants that are on the Up and up) but rarely if the adventure is centered on Dungeon diving XD
But I've seen the ones that use Sense Motive on City Guards when asking for Directions