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While everything introduced in Guns & Gears allows for a wide variety of Inventors, there's certainly various ideas it does not touch on as much as others.
What sorts of Innovations and Feats do you believe the Inventor should receive in the future?
For me, it seems like the Armor Invention is missing options for a Large Size (big power armor) as well as an Unarmed Strike (since many options specifically call out unarmed strikes for the Armor Invention).
In addition, I think there may be more room for some magic option integration, such as a feat that lets you place a wand inside your weapon to cast from it without a check, flavored as using technology to draw out the magical power stored within the wand.
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Yeah, armor inventor has a lot of unarmed attacks suggestions in the mechanics and flavor text, but no actual support for unarmed attacks. It's pretty strange. Weapon inventor makes their weapons side grades until 15th level.
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
A staggered feat that lets them take other innovations at later levels.
There's the feat for an extra initial innovation at 8th.
An extra breakthrough innovation as a 16th level feat is probably fair.
It's definitely better for Construct and Armour innovations; weapon innovations tend to lean you into certain strategies with their added traits, while Construct and Armour upgrades are more generically useful.
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Quote: For me, it seems like the Armor Invention is missing options for a Large Size (big power armor) as well as an Unarmed Strike (since many options specifically call out unarmed strikes for the Armor Invention). Very much this. Either large-size armor, or a huge-size companion. Basically some way for an inventor to have a mech or warjack would be amazing.
I'm not sure what other innovations they could get off the top of my head. I haven't looked closely at gadgets enough to know if they'd make sense to build an innovation around.
One idea that does come to mind is a vehicle, like mechanics have in Tech Revolution, though we'd need some system for building vehicles for that to be viable I would think.
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I'd like to see more combat feats like Megaton Strike. Not just damage boosters but more activities in combat.
I'd also like more interaction with gadgets! Like a permanent gadget you can add to your invention.
Puna'chong wrote: I'd like to see more combat feats like Megaton Strike. Not just damage boosters but more activities in combat.
I'd also like more interaction with gadgets! Like a permanent gadget you can add to your invention.
I love megaton strike. It's power attack plus furious focus that works with ranged strikes. I do wish that the new gadgets had some more useful effects, having a permanent one could be handy though.
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I like Megaton Strike too, but it's probably got the worst Unstable ability just because it doesn't scale well with your level like the others.
Golurkcanfly wrote: I like Megaton Strike too, but it's probably got the worst Unstable ability just because it doesn't scale well with your level like the others. Yeah, if you compare the extra damage you get from its unstable use to other options, it's not very good but still worth it for its standard action. Although, if you're multiclassing from a sniper to get megaton strike at 8th level, you could crit with a cool 9d12 lol.
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I think more feats and innovations specifically for ranged Inventors would be fun as well. Like a repeating or capacity innovation for a reload weapon at level 1 would definitely feel like this Inventor person has a wild contraption from the get-go. Or at least double barrel.
The Explosive Leap feat already kinda does the grapple gun, sorta, but movement abilities is a fun thing to expand on. I think this could be a good place to expand the armor innovation a bit, since it already does movement speed but is kind of taken up by resistances. An unstable feat that lets your armor innovation levitate (not fly) would be really cool, same with a suction cup/magnet/just-punching-your-power-suit-into-the-wall spider climb.
Constructs seem pretty solid, but also more combat actions for them. I think some Star Wars robutt-type construct feats would be rad as well, turn your construct into a universal translator, or give it more powerful trapfinder or disable device abilities. I've also recently gotten to use Alchemical Golems and that idea of multiple alchemical substances sloshing around inside of them is pretty cool; fill up your construct with an alchemist fire and it can add it to a melee attack before it needs to be refilled, etc.
A vehicle innovation would be great. I'm trying to figure out how to get some ideas I have from a homebrew setting to work with pf2e rules, and in my setting is an inventor that specializes in vehicles. Would be nice to have a tricked out steam cart with a cannon on it as that's the concept essentially of his main fighting style. I suppsoe I could use the construct innovation but it doesn't feel right as his vehicles are not creatures taht act on their own, they need to be piloted.
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i26c2 wrote: A vehicle innovation would be great. I'm trying to figure out how to get some ideas I have from a homebrew setting to work with pf2e rules, and in my setting is an inventor that specializes in vehicles. Would be nice to have a tricked out steam cart with a cannon on it as that's the concept essentially of his main fighting style. I suppsoe I could use the construct innovation but it doesn't feel right as his vehicles are not creatures taht act on their own, they need to be piloted. I've been flirting with the idea of importing some notions from AD&D2's Spelljammer campaign setting because I like the idea of massive walking vehicles, flying ships, and submarines. In my drafty head canon I would realize this through an added vehicle innovation.
EDIT: This could be something else a tech guide book gives us.
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I'd like to see ( and it is kinda strange it's not already part of an inventor class meant to work with gizmos and gears ) a prosthetic innovation.
Having to be specific, if were to choose between legs or a single arm, I'd obviously go with the single arm.
Possibilities would be plentiful, from shooting energy to shifting the arm into any one handed weapon.
Actually, it could probably even work as a minor weapon innovation perk or a class feat requiring the weapon innovation ( though it should be available by lvl 1 regardless the situation, just for character customization purposes ).
HumbleGamer wrote: I'd like to see ( and it is kinda strange it's not already part of an inventor class meant to work with gizmos and gears ) a prosthetic innovation.
Having to be specific, if were to choose between legs or a single arm, I'd obviously go with the single arm.
Possibilities would be plentiful, from shooting energy to shifting the arm into any one handed weapon.
Actually, it could probably even work as a minor weapon innovation perk or a class feat requiring the weapon innovation ( though it should be available by lvl 1 regardless the situation, just for character customization purposes ).
This would be cool! Along these lines I'd like to see an alchemical version that does things with grafts. Perhaps realized as a line of feats for the chirurgeon.
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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
The joke is that the book should have been called guns OR gears, because the two sections don't overlap much. Inventors are largely much better with bows than guns, which feels odd.
HumbleGamer wrote: I'd like to see ( and it is kinda strange it's not already part of an inventor class meant to work with gizmos and gears ) a prosthetic innovation.
Having to be specific, if were to choose between legs or a single arm, I'd obviously go with the single arm.
Possibilities would be plentiful, from shooting energy to shifting the arm into any one handed weapon.
Actually, it could probably even work as a minor weapon innovation perk or a class feat requiring the weapon innovation ( though it should be available by lvl 1 regardless the situation, just for character customization purposes ).
I think those are basically covered various equipment and the sterling dynamo archetype. Or the golem grafter.
Captain Morgan wrote: The joke is that the book should have been called guns OR gears, because the two sections don't overlap much. Inventors are largely much better with bows than guns, which feels odd.
HumbleGamer wrote: I'd like to see ( and it is kinda strange it's not already part of an inventor class meant to work with gizmos and gears ) a prosthetic innovation.
Having to be specific, if were to choose between legs or a single arm, I'd obviously go with the single arm.
Possibilities would be plentiful, from shooting energy to shifting the arm into any one handed weapon.
Actually, it could probably even work as a minor weapon innovation perk or a class feat requiring the weapon innovation ( though it should be available by lvl 1 regardless the situation, just for character customization purposes ).
I think those are basically covered various equipment and the sterling dynamo archetype. Or the golem grafter.
Indeed the sterling dynamo covers for something similar (golem crafter just gives golem features, and nothing similar to having a steampunk arm that may shot several kind of stuff ), but as an innovator it would be way more enhanced ( a whole class with features that can be also used with a prosthetic arm.
Helmet Innovation: Based around perception and vision bonuses. No need to mess with the actual proficiency, but giving an inventor enough bonuses so that their effective proficiency is just shy of legend would be cool.
Spanner Innovation: The ultimate multitool, based around skill checks
Aeon Stone: a more mystical adaptation; probably allows the use of a “focus spell” that gets various buffs and traits tacked onto it. Possibly also allows you to spend an actual focus point instead of rolling your unstable check. (Note: unstable abilities were tuned to mimic focus spells in the playtest; I can’t recall offhand if they still are, but I believe they still landed around there).
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote: Note: unstable abilities were tuned to mimic focus spells in the playtest; I can’t recall offhand if they still are, but I believe they still landed around there I mean basically, they function like focus spells except you have a 20% chance to refund and 35% chance of taking damage after using it.
They even get refocus 2 at 14 by another name, though sadly never refocus 3.
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I'd like to see a transforming weapon feat. (that isn't a trap, I mean)
Squiggit wrote: AnimatedPaper wrote: Note: unstable abilities were tuned to mimic focus spells in the playtest; I can’t recall offhand if they still are, but I believe they still landed around there I mean basically, they function like focus spells except you have a 20% chance to refund and 35% chance of taking damage after using it.
They even get refocus 2 at 14 by another name, though sadly never refocus 3. That might be partially solved by making the lvl 14 feat trigger before the check rather than after.
That way you'll have double to chances to hit 17+.
I wonder whether it would be too much to also lowering its lvl to 12, to match the majority of refocus x2 feats.
Jacob Jett wrote: i26c2 wrote: A vehicle innovation would be great. I'm trying to figure out how to get some ideas I have from a homebrew setting to work with pf2e rules, and in my setting is an inventor that specializes in vehicles. Would be nice to have a tricked out steam cart with a cannon on it as that's the concept essentially of his main fighting style. I suppsoe I could use the construct innovation but it doesn't feel right as his vehicles are not creatures taht act on their own, they need to be piloted. I've been flirting with the idea of importing some notions from AD&D2's Spelljammer campaign setting because I like the idea of massive walking vehicles, flying ships, and submarines. In my drafty head canon I would realize this through an added vehicle innovation.
EDIT: This could be something else a tech guide book gives us. So I figured out how to do it for my homebrew with minimal rules bending. The one thing I have to bend is to allow my inventor to "invent" a rare recipe, which there is nothing in the rules to even allow them to invent uncommon ones which seems unfair to me. In my homebrew setting (that I ran a bit in 4e but didn't get very far), its based on JRPGs and one of the aspects is collecting people that will end up being your generals in a rebellion. Those generals will be playable NPCs at different parts in the campaign (PCs can swap out and play the NPC instead of their main PC). One of these playable NPCs is an inventor whose big thing is inventing steam powered stuff like a car and a boat and is not playable until later on when the PCs find a cannon (such things are rare in my setting) and he decides he can add this to his car and essentially ahve a tank. As such he won't be joining as playable until later on in the campaign, so I can start him at 8th level.
Here is how I made it work: Construct inventor, flavoring his "construct" as the mechanisms that run the "tank" and so not letting the construct to ever leave the tank. The tank itself is a steam cart which he invented (his life's work can be a rare recipe IMO, this is where it breaks RAW, but he's an NPC so I do what I want). Obviously cosntruct celerity so he can be quickened and order his construct for free. His construct will do the loading of the cannon (flavored as an auto loader system), letting the inventor do the aiming and firing. It will still only fire every 2nd round, but doing cannon damage every second round and still being able to take an action driving is pretty good. I also gave him the free archetype artelleriest for some other benefits with seige weapons. As he's in a cart he and the "loading mechanism" construct will both have heavy cover at ground level and lesser cover otherwise, so it will be hard to take them out without first taking out the cart's HP (this does make it feel like a tank). His big downside is he is squishy if soemthing teleported into the tank or climbed aboard and started meleeing him, he'd die fast. His other downside is firing only every other turn, and the cannon's minimum 50ft range, which with only 25ft drive speed will be hard to keep far enough from the fighting to use. He will have other weapons to fall back on of course (including just running the tank into people to do collision damage, and the construct melee attacks which I'd flavor as weapons mounted on the tank like a buzz saw or whatever). Since artellerist has very few feats and he would run out long before 20 I've also ruled with the free archetpye thing that you can split more than one, which is the other rule bending I'm doing, and giving him alchemsit dedication as well so he can have bombs and elixers and still be useful when in a tight dungeon and can't use the tank.
Squiggit wrote: AnimatedPaper wrote: Note: unstable abilities were tuned to mimic focus spells in the playtest; I can’t recall offhand if they still are, but I believe they still landed around there I mean basically, they function like focus spells except you have a 20% chance to refund and 35% chance of taking damage after using it.
They even get refocus 2 at 14 by another name, though sadly never refocus 3. Oh, no, I know. I just put it out there because someone in the playtest forum went on a tear about how focus spells are universally so much more powerful than unstable abilities of the same level, but when I went and checked they were balanced almost exactly.
Though now I remember that unstable abilities often have a cantrip AND focus spell effect, which would work well with a potential Aeon stone innovation.
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Changing the damage type of your weapon is something that is key to the weapon inventor fantasy for me and completely missing right now: Let me turn a shortbow into an acid blaster that never deals boring piercing damage, only acid. Let me turn a generic greatsword into a pure wieldable flame that only deals fire damage. I want the weapon created by my weapon inventor to be truly unlike anything a non-inventor can wield, not just a normal weapon with an extra trait. The option to deal pure energy damage through weapons would help with that a lot.
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