Thaumaturge Thread to Hold Me Over

[Ventnor]

Mark Seifter wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Every new tidbit makes me understand and get even more excited. I am super excited for this concept.

Is it weird to say I'm on the same page. Like I had the class and already was excited. But I started reading in-world treatises from SoM and sources for symbolism on Earth (and Golarion) in stuff like tarot, astrology, and more, checking different portrayals in media of this type of character, and just the more I got into that, the more excited I became for the thaumaturge. That's why in chat I said not to tell the inventor. (inventor, sorry, I still love you, I just always get swept up in the next new thing!)

So, let's say a Thaumaturge is fighting a dragon. Could they manipulate the dragon's greed and make it weak to damage it takes by having its treasure horde telekinetically thrown at it?

[Evan Tarlton]

Ventnor wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Every new tidbit makes me understand and get even more excited. I am super excited for this concept.

Is it weird to say I'm on the same page. Like I had the class and already was excited. But I started reading in-world treatises from SoM and sources for symbolism on Earth (and Golarion) in stuff like tarot, astrology, and more, checking different portrayals in media of this type of character, and just the more I got into that, the more excited I became for the thaumaturge. That's why in chat I said not to tell the inventor. (inventor, sorry, I still love you, I just always get swept up in the next new thing!)

So, let's say a Thaumaturge is fighting a dragon. Could they manipulate the dragon's greed and make it weak to damage it takes by having its treasure horde telekinetically thrown at it?

I have a similar question. If, say, a dragon destroyed a village, would an item from that village cause extra damage or status penalties to that dragon?

[The Raven Black]

I have longed considered that a supernatural use of CHA was to impose your will on reality. To have the multiverse take notice of you and try to fulfill your requests.

So I really love this take on the Thaumaturge.

I see it not as convincing the universe that the dragon who destroyed the village should be hurt by the aforementioned item from the village, but that it should be hurt by the Rightful Signet of Settlement's Vengeance that you just happen to have in your pocket.

Also Connections really sounds like Occult to me.

[The Raven Black]

I see something of the Inquisitor in knowing much about opponents and having attacks that are tailor-made to really hurt a specific enemy.

[Mark Seifter]

The Raven Black wrote:

I have longed considered that a supernatural use of CHA was to impose your will on reality. To have the multiverse take notice of you and try to fulfill your requests.

So I really love this take on the Thaumaturge.

I see it not as convincing the universe that the dragon who destroyed the village should be hurt by the aforementioned item from the village, but that it should be hurt by the Rightful Signet of Settlement's Vengeance that you just happen to have in your pocket.

Also Connections really sounds like Occult to me.

Well hopefully the thaumaturge who only has the rubble of the village and not the signet has enough Cha to convince you, the universe, about the connections :D

But for real, the reason I love the thaumaturge is in this thread. All the examples you all gave right here. The thaumaturge player has so many esoterica lying around the game assumes if they make the check (or spend more actions) that they find something that works, but you can describe why. And what I've seen already in this thread just feels so fun to me. I want more of it at the table. In fact, I'm starting a new thread!

[Mark Seifter]

New thread is here.

[Lanathar]

Gosh I think there might be some people who are tempted to this game by this class alone (based on that linked thread). As in the types who can come up with all that kind of stuff that is usually not useful in an average game

[Mark Seifter]

Lanathar wrote:

Gosh I think there might be some people who are tempted to this game by this class alone (based on that linked thread). As in the types who can come up with all that kind of stuff that is usually not useful in an average game

I hope so. And you don't have to like plan it in advance and spend hours pre-session being like "maybe I need to buy alder sap and broken slave manacles," you kind of just pull the thing out of your collection.

[The Raven Black]

Very much like the Constantine version in Legends of Tomorrow :-D

[PossibleCabbage]

Personally I am much more comfortable improvising why random objects are significant than in planning what consumable items I should keep on hand. I'm a big fan of the prescient planner feat chain, and I'm probably a big fan of the thaumaturge.

[Squiggit]

Probably pointless to speculate on since Monday is just around the corner but

I wonder how the thaumaturge is going to play with handedness. If a big part of their gameplan is dragging out the right item for the job, seems like they might have a lot of trouble with shields/two weapon fight/two handed weapons because of the action economy.

Maybe not though.

[AnimatedPaper]

That's definitely something to keep an eye on for the playtest. For example, if your weapon or armor is your implement, you might be able to cheese by it, making those options somewhat stronger than possible intended.

We'll see tomorrow!

[Lanathar]

Perhaps a way of absorbing it like the magus does with a staff? But that may not work due to actually needing the item

[Temperans]

Idk it sounds like their proficiency will be weird with the whole "always have the right tool" thing. So they might not even be wielding a sword and/or shield.

[Ly'ualdre]

Considering the Occultist had Martial and Shield proficiency, I don't see why that would be the case.

Unless, you meant more like they won't ever have hands available for an actual weapon or shield, unless that is their implementat?

[Dubious Scholar]

Mark Seifter wrote:

The blurb may have been a little misleading. A thaumaturge is based on the idea that it's not just that you might know things. You are connected to things and you can manipulate those connections and create them. Part of it is like convincing the universe that this is a thing, akin to the idea of magic maybe plowing the field for future casting from SoM treatises on the nature of magic. Is this broken chain from a freed slave a good connection to damage this tyrannical king? Well he doesn't have any weaknesses normally, but you're pushing the universe to create a new bespoke weakness just for you.

You can use Cha for a special in battle Recall Knowledge to suss out existing weaknesses or make a new one. Even if you fail, you can spend another Interact action to just pull out tons of different possibilities and try them until something works. So a success is not necessary to do your thing.

So is this like, success gets it done faster?

[Ly'ualdre]

It seems more like, success makes it so you can figure out a weakness or make one. I'd imagine you'd still get the Interact opportunity if you succeed, but you'd actually know it would work. If you fail, you can still try to figure it out by actually trying something.

Like, you roll against a Troll. You succeed and learn it's weak to Fire, so maybe you throw a vial of Alchemist's Fire at it. But, if you fail, you can still throw the vial to see if it work. If it doesn't, then you wasted it. If you do, good on you.

Maybe something like that. Likewise, a Crit Success probably makes it so you can throw Bottled Lightning at a Troll and it becomes weak to it. Because you did so well you basically willed it into existence.

[RoyAlan]

As far as the Occultist goes, I think back to the Black and white film DRACULA, starring Bela Lugosi. The doctor who analyzed the ghoul's blood and relentlessly studied lore of the supernatural so he could combat it.

I look at the 1e occultist rate of acquired implements and compared it to the old psionicist class chart (Steve Winter AD&D brown cover). I get the impression that the Occultist was meant to be a nod to the psionicist of yore. yet, I was so disappointed when I saw a spell list and spell slots. That was then though. now, I say let the occultist keep implements and spell casting.

I'll play a real psionicist.

[Temperans]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Considering the Occultist had Martial and Shield proficiency, I don't see why that would be the case.

Unless, you meant more like they won't ever have hands available for an actual weapon or shield, unless that is their implementat?

For one they thankfully learned to be careful about name. So even if its "very similar" to the Occultist its not bound to the Occultist.

Well I think it will be something like Alchemist where they are a "martial" but have their weird proficiency. But I don't know, just a guess.

[Ly'ualdre]

Eh. There isn't really any reason to think that. But, we will find put in about 8 to 12 hours. So I suppose there is little point in debating semantics.

[The Rot Grub]

Do we know what time the PDF will become available?

[Ly'ualdre]

If I had to guess, probably around 5ish central time? That's around the time I usually see blog postings go up, which there will likely be one to let everyone know it's up. I wouldn't bet on any time earlier. But I could be wrong.

[Alchemic_Genius]

I'm super stoked for this class; the connection theme really makes me want to play a trickster type who's charisma is expressed by deceiving and convincing so well that it impacts reality itself