I feel like you could immediately book an international flight, say from LA to Sydney.. or Tokyo or London or whatever...
And hop on the plane.. it will be in the air for over 8 hours..
They (any government) will be unlikely to ground it prematurely, and probably couldn't as you'd be over an ocean.
By the time you land you'll have your spells and even if they are waiting for you... You're gone.
It would be essentially impossible for them (any government) to stop you from getting on a plane within a couple of hours.
They don't know your name to put on a no-fly list..
You may be recognizable, but probably not enough to random tsa workers who haven't been watching the news.
With a 20 in Diplo or bluff or stealth you can probably get on a plane with no ticket...
You could probably be in the cockpit!
Well you can intercept a boat and a train easily enough if you bought a ticket, but if you just hopped on to a random train or boat how would they know you're on it?
But still, it will take time just to find your name, it's not been announced, they just know your face and approximate location.
Just a cap and a mask will get you hidden in plain sight these days...
You could Diplo your way into a hotel/cruise ship/hostel/anything with a bed and sleep 8 hours.. there would be no way to find you..
Sure you can start looking at security cameras.. but that would take a government DAYS....
If you go with a charisma based character...
And you start with 13 cha.. you can get to 18 from leveling, 26 from an optional capstone. Take disguise skill, skill focus disguise and you have a +34 to disguise...
You could pretend to be the president of the united states and your wife/mistress wouldn't even know it's not you because even with the penalties they can't hit a 44 perception check...
Take signature skill and get unchained disguise and you can change disguises every 6 seconds and literally no one in the world can see through your disguise... And if they figure it out (somehow??!!) You change it.. in literally 6 seconds.
Thanks for the quick lesson. If I'm understanding correctly, x party wins the election held once every 3 years, but within that 3 year term, hypothetically an infinite number of officials could hold the PM seat? Conversely, if the party is doing well and united, one person could hold the PM seat indefinetly? In either direction though, the person in that seat, isn't directly elected by the general populace. (That's not a critisism. I know we've got the whole Electoral College thing over here.)
Theoretically they can switch leaders however many times they want, but "unlimited" isn't very realistic. I'm not exactly a historian, but I think switching twice in one term is unprecedented. But theoretically yes, the party is voted in and they decide who runs them.
And to go into a little more detail - the people vote for their local member of parliment, and those who are voted in fork the parties or act as independants). The party (or independant) with the most votes wins. The Prime Minister is one of those members.
So if we go back to John Howard (the PM who served 11 years), in the election he lost he was named as the candidate for Prime Minister for his party. However he actually lost his local seat, meaning even if his party had won he wouldn't have been PM, they would have had to choose someone else.
The other official office worth knowing about is the Govenor General. We theoretically still owe allegiance to England, and the Govenor General is the Queen's representative in Australia. The GG is appointed by the queen, but usually she just accepts the PM's recommendation so in practice the GG is appointed by the PM. Now the reason this is important is that the the GG has the power to dismiss ministers - including the PM. If things get completely out of hand the GG can theoretically fire everyone and call another election ... which actually happened in 1975.
Oh, 3 last things about Aussie politics:
1. Preferential Voting. It's good.
2. Mandatory voting. It's also good, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.
3. You don't win an election with 51%. I don't know the exact number but I think it's something like a 2/3 majority. This means parties make coalitions with smaller parties in order to get the majority and finish the election. This is (as far as I'm concerned) a good thing. I understsnd people's qualms about this though.
Anyway I better get back to work, but *Thelith, that's actually genius.
EDIT: The "get on a plane" stuff is genius, I'll have to read the rest when I have time. Also it's totally not too late to edit.
EDIT 2: I added a few small notes to finish the politics stuff.
And you start with 13 cha.. you can get to 18 from leveling, 26 from an optional capstone. Take disguise skill, skill focus disguise and you have a +34 to disguise...
You could pretend to be the president of the united states and your wife/mistress wouldn't even know it's not you because even with the penalties they can't hit a 44 perception check...
Take signature skill and get unchained disguise and you can change disguises every 6 seconds and literally no one in the world can see through your disguise... And if they figure it out (somehow??!!) You change it.. in literally 6 seconds.
Too late to edit...
Do the same for bluff, and you can use suggestion the spell as a skill, which is available immediately and you can basically do whatever you want!!
I honestly don't think there's anyone in NZ who could put together and send out a black bag team in 8 hours. Crashing at a friends' place should get me that much time against ordinary harassment.
Ditto Australia.
I'll just go bush for a night.
I'll concede that you all know your countries far better than I, but you both have central governments, militaries, satellites, and modern infrastructure. Don't you also have special forces and/or some type of intelligence agencies? Are you sure they couldn't find you, when your identity, power investature, and starting location are all over the internet?
If I stayed at home NZs intelligence agencies should be able to identify my address quickly, sure. Identifying my friends and their addresses would take longer; I've seen how long security background checks take. Walking out without a phone and taking the back routes to a friends' house should get me well away before they could get organised and talk to the police. Historically that takes days at least; the police are very bureaucratic and very risk averse.
The intelligence agencies aren't armed themselves and their legal enforcement powers are limited to stuff like demanding things of your internet provider (not you), this isn't the US. Defence can only operate in NZ at the request of the police; this also takes a day or so.
I mean, per the OP: "However those moments are public and soon become the most viral event in the world ... Your face and identity spreads as only the internet knows and soon the world looks at you."
So, it will likely only take 5 minutes for someone in the government(any government) to use a facial recognition app, find your "social app of choice" (and possibly shadow) profile to get your name and the cross reference DMV/etc and call your local Police Department to start knocking on every door you've ever called home. So maybe an hour before you are on a no-fly list, your driver's license/license plate on your car are flagged (and all of your neighbors/family), all of your debit/credit cards/bank accounts are flagged/watched (and your neighbors/family), your phone is broadcasting your location, and they find this thread and make sure there are marshals on every flight over 4 hours.
avr wrote:
Identifying my friends and their addresses would take longer; I've seen how long security background checks take. ... Historically that takes days at least; the police are very bureaucratic and very risk averse.
Normal security background checks involve calling and actually talking to real people to make sure your background is legitimate. In this situation they don't need to prove where you live, they just need a reasonable suspicion and send some officers for questions. I would imagine the Police would be must less risk averse when a dozen politicians suddenly call the police chief and say "do this or you're fired and brought up on charges of aiding and abetting a murderer/terrorist". Sure, your adventures went viral, but I mean... you have to kill things to get XP right? And a lot of those somethings could be argued as sentient. So we just need you to come in for your own safety...
So, having high ranks in bluff and disguise or stealth (and didn't use them during your viral adventure?) seem like they are the only way to survive that first 24 hours. Maybe diplomacy too.
I mean, per the OP: "However those moments are public and soon become the most viral event in the world... Your face and identity spreads as only the internet knows and soon the world looks at you."
Sure, your adventures went viral, but I mean... you have to kill things to get XP right? And a lot of those somethings could be argued as sentient. So we just need you to come in for your own safety...
So, having high ranks in bluff and disguise or stealth (and didn't use them during your viral adventure?) seem like they are the only way to survive that first 24 hours. Maybe diplomacy too.
Also per OP:
"Xarath wrote:
-You instantly level to 20th, choosing feats/spells/specializations/class features etc
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
What adventure? You never went on an adventure, people might think you went on one, but... would Nethys have cared enough to given them false memories of you going on one?
-You instantly level to 20th, choosing feats/spells/specializations/class features etc
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
What adventure? You never went on an adventure, people might think you went on one, but... would Nethys have cared enough to given them false memories of you going on one?
The same adventure that everyone else thinks is real, sure. I mean, there is viral video proof of you adventuring all over the internet.
-You instantly level to 20th, choosing feats/spells/specializations/class features etc
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
What adventure? You never went on an adventure, people might think you went on one, but... would Nethys have cared enough to given them false memories of you going on one?
The same adventure that everyone else thinks is real, sure. I mean, there is viral video proof of you adventuring all over the internet.
Is there video of you adventuring though? The OP's premise can be interpreted it as the meeting between you and Nethys OR an adventure is made public and I'm assuming it's the meeting that's made public. And nothing says that it's a conversation, Nethys could just pop in saying "You're a SUPREME Archmage(TM) now, {insert name here}." and then pop out and that's what's made public.
We're talking 8 hours.
I could find a house for sale/rent nearby and stay there for days without anyone knowing(obviously leave my phone/car/computer at home), and you'd have access to water and a bathroom... Once 8 hours are over it doesn't much matter anymore.
The key words there are "the way a wizard can". We can't do it the way a wizard can, but we can do it.
People cannot be mind-controlled IRL. Casters can. IRL you cannot magically find someone hiding out anywhere in the world in a matter of minutes, get there in seconds, kill or control everyone in the vicinity before they know what is going on. A wizard can. IRL you can't make a weapon impervious to any attempts to destroy it, a wizard can. RL people can't make themselves immune to anything the world can throw at them, a wizard can.
Quote:
I just don't think combat is their best method of change.
I agree that combat isn't the best thing they can do, but that isn't what you said originally. You said that they can't win a war, which they very much can, by any reasonable definition of 'win'.
The key words there are "the way a wizard can". We can't do it the way a wizard can, but we can do it.
People cannot be mind-controlled IRL. Casters can.
You and I clearly don't live in the same world.
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IRL you cannot magically find someone hiding out anywhere in the world in a matter of minutes, get there in seconds, kill or control everyone in the vicinity before they know what is going on. A wizard can.
Satellites and drones my friend.
Quote:
IRL you can't make a weapon impervious to any attempts to destroy it, a wizard can.
Sure, go sort out North Korea's nuclear arsenal real quick for me then.
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RL people can't make themselves immune to anything the world can throw at them, a wizard can.
... no they can't?
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Quote:
I just don't think combat is their best method of change.
I agree that combat isn't the best thing they can do, but that isn't what you said originally. You said that they can't win a war, which they very much can, by any reasonable definition of 'win'.
Wars aren't won by one person. Wars aren't even necessarily won by winning battles.
Look, I get it. You disagree. I think the problem here isn't that you're overestimating Wizards, I think it' that you're underestimating the real world. A wizard acting as a consultant for the military would be an invaluable asset, but a Wizard teleporting into a warzone to wreck face has a very limited shelf-life.
I'm mostly with Chell Raighn on this one. The majority of scenarios are going to result in your life as [Namey McNamerton] the human person effectively ending and your life as [Namey McNamerton] the not-quite-human being of immense power beginning instead.
Which is exactly why I'd want to make sure as few of my relatives die of old age or psyche-shattering violence while working out what best to do with them to preserve my all but guaranteed to become increasingly more tenuous connection to the rest of humanity as the power and immortality start to kick in.
Actually, remembering that I could bring back dead relatives reminds me that I could bring back some notable figures from the past, too. That's probably worthwhile as a distraction from whatever other plans I'd come up with once I was more comfortable exercising my power as well as much more intelligent than I am now, if not worth actually being a part of said machinations.
MrCharisma wrote:
Also - and I really can't stress this enough - I think people over-value the raw power of a high level Wizard.
- Yes teleportation is nice, but it's only a small timesaver unless you're going into space.
- Yes enchantment is scary, but let's be honest, your favourite tech-mogul is probably better at swaying people's minds than any caster could be (I very carefully didn't name anyone there, let's not open that can of worms and get this thread blocked).
A Wizard/Cleric/whatever is going to be a boon to whichever country/organisation/etc can snag them, but it's not going to be enough to win wars. It's more of a scientific investment than a military one.
I find it's less a matter of overestimating the power of a Wizard, typically, and more an underestimation of how much time you have to spend laying the groundwork for anything of true substance. A wizard *could* amass enough simulacra or bound outsiders to launch an operation to track down every nuclear weapon on the planet and then use transmutation magic to turn them into lead simultaneously. But they could not do it on a whim with no prep. Immortality is either part and parcel of what you have become or it is within your grasp and you have the ability to make permanent or long-term servitors that are basically perfectly loyal. That, and your other powers, can go a long way.
Greater Teleportation is not a small timesaver unless you're traveling short distances. Also, you're a level 20 Wizard, why wouldn't you make a moon base at some point? Also, making an automatic resetting trap of greater teleport instead of the right apparatus is a way to generate endless clean energy. Endless clean energy is nothing to sneeze at.
If you want to influence people en masse then, yeah, you're better off not trying to reinvent the wheel and instead you just use the tech moguls, etc. and the apparatus that they have so conveniently provided. Enchantment is just one means by which to do so. A level 20 Wizard will be able to ultimately discover the levers for any individual whom they cared to spend the time on, and could probably create some levers even for the rare individual who lacked any levers whatsoever.
A Wizard could win wars without anyone ever actually realizing that a war could have been fought.
MrCharisma wrote:
- All this talk of making similacra to farm for precious resources is pitiful compared to the resources brought to bear by a mid-sized country. Even in Pathfinder's own kingdom builing rules a large city has more money than a PC could ever dream of, and the resources available in our world are magnitudes above what's imagined there.
To what are you referring? Did someone delete a comment, or something?
MrCharisma wrote:
I DO think a wizard would be a powerful tool to change the world, I just don't think combat is their best method of change.
Wielding one's power like a cudgel is the most inefficient way to do so generally, yeah.
Heck, if you want to go on a rampage, you're probably better off trying to come up with your own IKEA Tarrasque to unleash on the world instead of doing it yourself. Possibly using a combination of Simulacrum and Trompe l'Oeil to make a monster that couldn't exist in our world that reforms after it is destroyed so long as no one finds and destroys the original painting. Which could be on your private demiplane or Moon Base, where you can have permanent teleportation circles set up to every continent and eventually every major city.
- All this talk of making similacra to farm for precious resources is pitiful compared to the resources brought to bear by a mid-sized country. Even in Pathfinder's own kingdom builing rules a large city has more money than a PC could ever dream of, and the resources available in our world are magnitudes above what's imagined there.
To what are you referring? Did someone delete a comment, or something?
Huh ... DID someone delete a post? Or was I just misremembering another thread? Or an old thread? ... Who knows.
Coidzor wrote:
Greater Teleportation is not a small timesaver unless you're traveling short distances. Also, you're a level 20 Wizard, why wouldn't you make a moon base at some point? Also, making an automatic resetting trap of greater teleport instead of the right apparatus is a way to generate endless clean energy. Endless clean energy is nothing to sneeze at.
There are heaps of incredibly useful tools in a Wizard's arsenal, but even GREATER TELEPORT maxes out at 100 Miles per caster level. The Pacific Ocean is almost 20,000 miles across, so you can cross it with 10 Greater Teleports. In terms of Scry-and-Fry that's pretty weak-sauce compared to satelites and drones. If you want a Moon Base you want Interplanetary Teleport (which would be an AMAZING boon to the world by the way). Can a teleport trap be made with that kind of range?
Coidzor wrote:
Wielding one's power like a cudgel is the most inefficient way to do so generally, yeah.
This is basically what I was trying to say. Like, forget everything else, just remember this.
So there’s a viral video of me, the person with no previous social media profile or photos on the internet being given super powers by a god?
How hard is it going to be, with said superpowers and/or bluff skills to have the entire thing written off as a leak from a forthcoming DC/WB Poison Ivy move? After all, the biggest viral events in the past have tended to be related to popular culture.
I am fairly convinced my own government lacks the basic organisational skills to track me down in 8 hours, based on their record to date.
-You instantly level to 20th, choosing feats/spells/specializations/class features etc
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
What adventure? You never went on an adventure, people might think you went on one, but... would Nethys have cared enough to given them false memories of you going on one?
The same adventure that everyone else thinks is real, sure. I mean, there is viral video proof of you adventuring all over the internet.
Is there video of you adventuring though? The OP's premise can be interpreted it as the meeting between you and Nethys OR an adventure is made public and I'm assuming it's the meeting that's made public. And nothing says that it's a conversation, Nethys could just pop in saying "You're a SUPREME Archmage(TM) now, {insert name here}." and then pop out and that's what's made public.
Hi, sorry if my meaning got lost in the translation. What i was trying to get at is that when Nethys levels you up to 20th, its as if you went on an AP that is level 1-20.
Thus you would be familiar and experiences, especially with all your skills/spells/abilities.
-You instantly level to 20th, choosing feats/spells/specializations/class features etc
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
What adventure? You never went on an adventure, people might think you went on one, but... would Nethys have cared enough to given them false memories of you going on one?
The same adventure that everyone else thinks is real, sure. I mean, there is viral video proof of you adventuring all over the internet.
Is there video of you adventuring though? The OP's premise can be interpreted it as the meeting between you and Nethys OR an adventure is made public and I'm assuming it's the meeting that's made public. And nothing says that it's a conversation, Nethys could just pop in saying "You're a SUPREME Archmage(TM) now, {insert name here}." and then pop out and that's what's made public.
Hi, sorry if my meaning got lost in the translation. What i was trying to get at is that when Nethys levels you up to 20th, it's as if you went on an AP that is level 1-20.
Thus you would be familiar and experiences, especially with all your skills/spells/abilities.
Do you have the experience though? You level instantly to 20 and it seems as if you went on an adventure. Nothing in there says that you actually had the adventure. Which means you could be seeing the adventure as if through a movie or an out of body experience-like viewing. Neither of those would give you familiarity or experience with using your new powers and skills. There's a lot of vagueness in the premise especially in how Nethys is doing this that a person being given this power could have the bare theoretical understanding of how to wield it. Assumption of maximum optimization is being very generous. After all, Nethys is a mad god.
It's not like your government agencies would just hit the ground running, trying to hunt you down. There would be shock and disbelief. This is a completely novel thing to happen. There are no procedures. There are no rules or laws. No precedent. It's ridiculous to think that bureaucracy could get its act together fast enough to start doing anything within the first few hours. More likely, it will just be guys in suits spending hours debating on what to do, while intelligence agencies create a file on you from readily available information.
You're in a lot more immediate danger from random nutjobs than from any bureaucracy.
Greater Teleportation is not a small timesaver unless you're traveling short distances. Also, you're a level 20 Wizard, why wouldn't you make a moon base at some point? Also, making an automatic resetting trap of greater teleport instead of the right apparatus is a way to generate endless clean energy. Endless clean energy is nothing to sneeze at.
There are heaps of incredibly useful tools in a Wizard's arsenal, but even GREATER TELEPORT maxes out at 100 Miles per caster level. The Pacific Ocean is almost 20,000 miles across, so you can cross it with 10 Greater Teleports. In terms of Scry-and-Fry that's pretty weak-sauce compared to satelites and drones. If you want a Moon Base you want Interplanetary Teleport (which would be an AMAZING boon to the world by the way). Can a teleport trap be made with that kind of range?
Regular old Teleport is the one with the range limitation of 100 miles per CL.
I don't remember the specifics of how they nerfed Greater Teleport and/or Teleportation Circle in Distant Worlds in order to justify creating Interplanetary Teleport, since they haven't changed the spell text in AONPRD, so I generally disregard it except for travelling vast interstellar distances where scrying and telescopes are of limited effectiveness.
But in our solar system, you probably wouldn't want to teleport to a different planet anyway. Being able to teleport to anywhere else on Earth at no risk would be quite sufficient.
With 20 ranks in Diplomacy, you can be more convincing than any world leader on the planet...you could just talk to various people and quickly become the boss of the whole world. No spells required. Government comes to pick me up.
With 20 ranks in Diplomacy, you can be more convincing than any world leader on the planet...you could just talk to various people and quickly become the boss of the whole world. No spells required. Government comes to pick me up.
"Please don't do that."
"Oh okay, have a nice day."
Or go the evangelical route.
There are some circumstantial modifiers so great that it doesn't matter how high you roll on your Diplomacy check.
With 20 ranks in Diplomacy, you can be more convincing than any world leader on the planet...you could just talk to various people and quickly become the boss of the whole world. No spells required. Government comes to pick me up.
"Please don't do that."
"Oh okay, have a nice day."
Or go the evangelical route.
There are some circumstantial modifiers so great that it doesn't matter how high you roll on your Diplomacy check.
I think something we don't usually play out is that a high diplomacy modifier means you know how to say things in a different way to encourage the other person to agree with you.
You wouldn't just say "Please don't do that", you'd say "Excuse me, I think the president would rather people didn't go in there", or "Hmmm... you COULD do that, but I know you want to make Captain, and I don't think there's ever been a Captain who has ..."
In gameplay we don't usually worry about that kind of thing, because it's harder to roleplay someone with higher mental stats than yourself, but that's what's happening in-world.
So you wouldn't be able to walk around with Jedi powers just for having a high diplomacy, but in practice you would be a VERY persuasive person.
People cannot be mind-controlled IRL. Casters can.
You and I clearly don't live in the same world.
OK, how do you mind control someone IRL? Apart from massive indoctrination and control of information (and often abuse) over a long period of time. You can't totally control someone against their wishes even if you can do a pretty good job, and you can't do it in 6 seconds.
MrCharisma wrote:
Satellites and drones my friend.
Useful, but not perfect. You need to scan the right areas, you need information to focus the satellites or direct the drones. Otherwise you are just scanning blindly and hoping for the best. You're also forgetting human informants which are still vital for intelligence gathering. However, a wizard with the right spells could find anyone they knew of, anywhere in the world, in a few hours at worst. The target could have been locked in an underground bunker with no electricity all their life and as long as I knew they existed I could find them. And with the right spells a wizard can learn they exist even if no one else knows of them.
MrCharisma wrote:
Quote:
IRL you can't make a weapon impervious to any attempts to destroy it, a wizard can.
Sure, go sort out North Korea's nuclear arsenal real quick for me then.
A non sequitur. Wizards can create creatures immune to anything the real world can throw at them. E.g. A wizard creates a wraith. Nothing can harm it other than force effects. What is the world going to do?
But to answer your question: start with Jong-Un and work my way down the line until I get all the information I need about their nukes, then go to the nukes and use Disintegrate with abandon. Or Dominate people to sabotage them. Or Gate them somewhere else. May take a few days, but eminently doable.
MrCharisma wrote:
Quote:
RL people can't make themselves immune to anything the world can throw at them, a wizard can.
... no they can't?
Um, yes they can. Etherealness. Without force effects, nothing is touching you. No force effects IRL. Even if we do permit somethings to work as force, like nukes or something, try finding a wizard that doesn't want to be found. And there's always the demiplane+Astral Projection trick. There is nothing the real world can do to touch a wizard who doesn't want to be touched.
MrCharisma wrote:
Wars aren't won by one person. Wars aren't even necessarily won by winning battles.
In real life, no. But we aren't talking about RL people, we are talking about a 20th level Wizard. Someone who can literally mind control leaders to surrender or flat out kill them in a day at worst. Someone who can keep doing it until the country dissolves into chaos, which happens sooner than you'd think. Someone who can find and destroy the most critical elements of any organization with impunity. Someone who can summon literal angels and demons to convince people.
Even without 3.5 levels of optimization b&&*%%#&, there is nothing to stop such a person from doing what they want other than amount of effort they are willing to put into something.
MrCharisma wrote:
a Wizard teleporting into a warzone to wreck face has a very limited shelf-life.
If you assume they are idiots, yes. A 20th level wizard can, as noted, make themselves immune to anything the real world can throw at them. You are the one assuming they teleport unprotected to a battlefield to sling Fireballs around, not me.
I would like to remind everyone that Geas/Quest exists and Limited Wish -> Geas exists if you have one of those abilities that allow spell like limited wish like the one mentioned in the first page.
Even lesser geas would work given that everybody is under 7th level.
Just geas the leader of [Big Country] with a better worded version of "make sure I am not killed or brought under the control of any government, organization or individual for the next 10 years without anyone noticing that you are not mind controlled"
Also, to fix the 8 hour problem, play one of those classes with a capstone with reincarnates you such as enlightened philosopher.
Being literally the chosen of a God probably gives a pretty huge circumstance bonus to your diplomacy too.
Have you not met anyone in the real world that literally holds to beliefs so strongly that they would rather die than give them up? You aren't persuading anyone like that, no matter how high your diplomacy roll is.
Being literally the chosen of a God probably gives a pretty huge circumstance bonus to your diplomacy too.
Have you not met anyone in the real world that literally holds to beliefs so strongly that they would rather die than give them up? You aren't persuading anyone like that, no matter how high your diplomacy roll is.
Seems like a cop out. Everyone being given a vision by a clearly deific being showing your transformation seems pretty earthshattering to those beliefs. Sure they might still be unsure, but once you start performing actual no-holds-barred miracles, those doubts will fade away.
People believe in all kinds of stuff despite there being no proof in front of them. If I saw a literal miracle performed in front of me...I'd have to be seriously mentally ill to not believe in it. And the Wizard has spells for curing that.
Being literally the chosen of a God probably gives a pretty huge circumstance bonus to your diplomacy too.
Have you not met anyone in the real world that literally holds to beliefs so strongly that they would rather die than give them up? You aren't persuading anyone like that, no matter how high your diplomacy roll is.
Seems like a cop out. Everyone being given a vision by a clearly deific being showing your transformation seems pretty earthshattering to those beliefs. Sure they might still be unsure, but once you start performing actual no-holds-barred miracles, those doubts will fade away.
People believe in all kinds of stuff despite there being no proof in front of them. If I saw a literal miracle performed in front of me...I'd have to be seriously mentally ill to not believe in it. And the Wizard has spells for curing that.
There's... people I know who would not believe a divine message like that. ESPECIALLY if it's not their God delivering it. They'd probably sooner believe that everyone's mass hallucinating before putting their faith in that vision given by Nethys. Or they could view it as Nethys is the devil and the person so empowered by him is the Anti-Christ... There's all sorts of ways for them to justify not being persuaded, including but not limited to: gods not being real, magic is just unexplained science, crazy dream shared across all of humanity, so on and so forth.
Being literally the chosen of a God probably gives a pretty huge circumstance bonus to your diplomacy too.
It'd be a bonus when talking to some people, a penalty when talking to others (remember all those people who might try to kill/control you just for existing?), and there'd be a big group of people who just don't care.
Athiests exist on Golarion - it's not that they beleave the gods don't exist, they just don't beleave that power justifies worship.
Also, Nethys apparently didn't ask us to become his high-priest, or proclaim that we were now stuck with that job, want it or not.
As fun as the title "Magic Pope" might be to put on a business card, I don't see myself dedicating myself to religious matters anytime soon, even after becoming much more intelligent, wise, and knowledgeable about the gods, planes, etc.
The spell Iron Stake is going to be useful here, as it creates 1-foot long spikes of Cold Iron that stick around permanently. Cold Iron is worth 50 gp per pound. So I'd just need ~3.4 pounds of it to Fabricate into a 500+ gp forked rod (170 gp x 3 = 510 ) in order to cast any of the Create Demiplane line of spells. Similarly, less than a pound of Cold Iron multiplied by 3 will hit the 100 gp limit for False Focus.
Probably both more time and spell efficient than acquiring over 3 pounds of gold by purchasing it with money made from the use of divination magic or the like.
The relatively plentiful diamond supply in our world creates some opportunities to use Create Armaments to create a lot of Mithral or Adamantine, which have a lot of value as trade goods, for satisfying various raw gp value of ingredients kinds of things. Although acquiring salt using mundane methods is probably still more efficient, since it's 5 gp per pound and you can buy mountains of the stuff.
Being literally the chosen of a God probably gives a pretty huge circumstance bonus to your diplomacy too.
It'd be a bonus when talking to some people, a penalty when talking to others (remember all those people who might try to kill/control you just for existing?), and there'd be a big group of people who just don't care.
Atheists exist on Golarion - it's not that they believe the gods don't exist, they just don't believe that power justifies worship.
Misotheist is the name for that IIRC.
Persuading everybody of anything is unrealistic, but if you don't get this gift somewhere under a repressive dictatorship you should be able to use it to get a bunch of supporters. Probably enough to make elected representatives think twice about messing with you.
Then again, if you do select a divine spellcasting class and say select Nethys as your patron god, you could always start up your own cult/religion. Conversion with your proven magical powers would be very effective
If it were me, the first thing I would do would be to see what options God gives me, let's bear in mind that the classes are based on a medieval concept and we are in a computer ageNow if it allows us to use the technomancer as a prestige class it would be a good thing and if it allows us the starfinder technomancer much better since it enables me to adapt to the world in which I find myself
Second I must see if the god provides me with some way to verify my attributes and others since a character sheet is different from real life.
Third study and analyze the powers, spells and abilities that you can, since as I mentioned before it is real life so the numerical variables will not manifest
Fourth, I would ask God to see if there is a way to grant me the opportunity to try each feat and see how it affects me.
Once everything is fixed, I say goodbye to God, rest and begin to practice everything somewhere with few people (or without them)
Yes you do, because the OP literally said you do. And you quoted them saying so! :confused:
_
glass.
If you actually read my full post you'd notice that the OP never said that. The actual quote is:
Xarath wrote:
This all seems to happen as if you went on an grand adventure but in truth this momentous event takes no more than a few moments.
Doesn't say you actually went on an adventure in fact, it says the opposite. It doesn't say you have usable experiences, it leaves that vague. And my point is that assuming Nethys gave you the raw knowledge of what you can do is reasonable, but the experience to use it well or the familiarity with the the abilities is not guaranteed.
Does it make the scenario more interesting if you somehow know how to cast Fireball, have it in your spellbook, know that you have it in your spellbook, have a library's worth of knowledge of the proper way to cast spells from ranks in Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft.... but are somehow too incompetent to successfully cast Fireball?
What I'm getting at is that tactical knowledge and know-how is learned through experience and is separate from academia. The latter is what is likely guaranteed in the scenario, but the former is questionable. You would be able to cast fireball if you chose for it to be in your spellbook of course (assuming prepared and with the proper components), but proper tactical usage of it? I'd say that's debatable. Because there's a lot of people who have problems with calculating stuff like that on the fly. Basically, there's a lot of assumptions by people in this scenario that may be taken for granted and probably shouldn't with a mad god doing the empowering.
Also part of what led down to this rabbithole in arguing experience was someone saying that there's video of the person who was empowered going on an adventure when that wasn't in the scenario, just going viral which could be in any number of ways dependent on how Nethys decides to do it. And he is a mad god, so... video may not even be the method, he could just snap his fingers and everyone knows your face
EDIT: I just realized that the person I was responding to changed halfway to the OP responding to me in a manner that doesn't actually answer my original line of questioning which is noted in the second part of my post here. Please ignore me arguing about experience and familiarity
Now that I think about it, the question we should ask ourselves is if we are magicians, how can we prove it?We would become magicians of Las Vegas, we declared war on some country to demonstrate our powers, we would do good healing people or saving people (this would make us look like Superman or the messiah)
My question is how to prove that they are magicians?
Commune'ing Nethys (using limited wish if a wizard) to ask if they shall transform someone else in the future like they transformed you(or if they are planning to transform somebody else of you want to definitely avoid an "unclear" answer) might be wise, given that somebody like that might be highly distruptive to any plans you might make.
He’s known as the mad god. Even if he were being honest, you couldn’t trust it. You can’t even count on your own powers being around forever. He’s just as likely to take them away tomorrow.
This is why I suggested doing things that he would like, such as opening a school of wizardry. Researching new spells would also be a good idea. They wouldn’t even need to be powerful, just interesting.
If I'm a wizard lv 20 and want to learn magic forever I only have 1 choice, plane shift And go to heaven or to golarion and start from the an adventure in a fantasy world
My question is how to prove that they are magicians?
We don't have to prove it; by OP fiat everyone in the world is told what we are (not all of them will necessarily believe it, but some will). Many of us would prefer to keep a low profile, but in this scenario that is not an option.
Anyway, one thing the OP has not made clear yet is whether we can turn this down. I really would not want to be so distanced from my family and friends (not to mention the rest of humanity), not to mention I would not want the responsibility of that much power. OTOH, I would accept the power if my refusing it caused it to be passed to another poster I would take the power - with the horrific things some in this thread have been talking about, I could not in good conscience risk the power passing to any of them.
Assuming I am actually going to take it (either for the above reason, or because I have no choice), it actually presents an interesting optimisation challenge. My needs in the real world (even a hypothetical 20th-level version of me) would be very different from a typical 20th level character.
I shall have a ponder on my "build", and post it later.
Now that I think about it, the question we should ask ourselves is if we are magicians, how can we prove it?We would become magicians of Las Vegas, we declared war on some country to demonstrate our powers, we would do good healing people or saving people (this would make us look like Superman or the messiah)
My question is how to prove that they are magicians?
Interesting question, but this topic was covered on an older thread. I encourage you to check it out. Can't remember the exact title, but it's literally about, if you were a caster, how could you prove your magic is real.
I see no benefit in proving my magic is “real”. I can do “things”. Maybe it’s mirrors. Maybe it’s magnets. It doesn’t really matter, because the “things” happen regardless.
