So, about the playable Anadi's Change Shape...

[graystone]

Cthulhudrew wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Time to convince the GM to let me play one in a Tian Xia campaign so they can pretend to be a kitsune and really surprise everybody.

Is that a fox that turns into a spider, or a spider that turns into a fox? The mind boggles.

LOL Think about a wolf spider that turns into an actual wolf [beastkin]! :)

[PossibleCabbage]

One of my homebrew campaigns is set on a planet where the polar icecaps melted so the world is mostly ocean except for what used to be areas of high elevation, and Cecaelias are one of the dominant sapient species on the planet. I will absolutely be adding Anadi to this world because that's a fun transformation.

Your legs turn into arms, your pedipalps turn into human arms, and you grow a torso from your face.

[The Ronyon]

So, do Anadi need a formula to Craft a blanket?
I mean a real blanket, not one of the zero value ones that self destruct.
What about webs?
When I think of a web weaving spider at work, restrictions on manipulation of objects seems extra silly.
A human with the Combat Climber feat seems to be a better climber than an Anadi, as does a Halfling with the Sure Feet feat.
A Tailed Goblin is also better at climbing.
None of these Ancestries needed to be good at climbing at first level as much as the sentient giant spider Ancestry did.

Side note, why are they raising fungus?
If spiders are not sucking bodily fluids they should at least be sucking plant juices.

[Gisher]

Cthulhudrew wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Time to convince the GM to let me play one in a Tian Xia campaign so they can pretend to be a kitsune and really surprise everybody.

Is that a fox that turns into a spider, or a spider that turns into a fox? The mind boggles.

.

♫ Spider-Fox, Spider-Fox!
Stalks however a spider stalks.
Spins a web that never fails,
Also has nine furry tails.
Look out! Here comes the Spider-Fox! ♪

[tuffnoogies]

This got me wondering why we're playtesting new classes but not new ancestries. I know they're not as impactful on character power levels but stuff like this could easily be avoided.

[Gortle]

The Ronyon wrote:

Side note, why are they raising fungus?
If spiders are not sucking bodily fluids they should at least be sucking plant juices.

Ants farm fungus and aphids. Anadi raising aphids would make as much sense as humans herding cows.

[PossibleCabbage]

It would be wrong to assume that anadi culinary preferences have not evolved from regular spiders culinary preferences just like how human culinary preferences have evolved from like ape culinary preferences.

Like sure, spiders excrete digestive fluids to digest their prey outside of their body so they can drink them. But Anadi probably figured out a way to make tastier things they can consume without chewing.

Like give a person-sized spider steak tartare and I bet they'd be into it.

[pixierose]

Makes me wonder if Anadi would be fans of milkshakes and smoothies

[Gisher]

pixierose wrote:

Makes me wonder if Anadi would be fans of milkshakes and smoothies

Who isn't? :)

[Perpdepog]

Gisher wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Makes me wonder if Anadi would be fans of milkshakes and smoothies

Who isn't? :)

My first guess would be Eli Sunday. Not many positive associations with milkshakes for that guy.

[Elfteiroh]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

It would be wrong to assume that anadi culinary preferences have not evolved from regular spiders culinary preferences just like how human culinary preferences have evolved from like ape culinary preferences.

Like sure, spiders excrete digestive fluids to digest their prey outside of their body so they can drink them. But Anadi probably figured out a way to make tastier things they can consume without chewing.

Like give a person-sized spider steak tartare and I bet they'd be into it.

(Also, they actually discovered a kind of spider that mostly eat leaves (90%). So... eh. :P )

[Gortle]

So cool https://www.livescience.com/54054-plant-eating-spiders-revealed.html

[PossibleCabbage]

pixierose wrote:

Makes me wonder if Anadi would be fans of milkshakes and smoothies

I am definitely going to roleplay an anadi character who is initially leery of, then enthusiastic about, foods that crunch which they can only consume in human form.

Spiders can chew, but they're not especially good at it.

[JstCurious]

When I saw the Anadi, I instantly wanted to play one. Shapechanging, intelligent spider PC? Count me in! Reading the class though, even after the errata, they are a very nerfed ancestry (still playing one for my first pf2e game ever!).
While an amazing concept with some cool lore, it’s clear the developer(s) that came up with it never went through a period in their life where they found spiders fascinating. I’ve seen some in this post mention pedipalps, which is a good step, but no one has mentioned that spiders have 2 claws on every foot, and web weaving spiders have 3, which they use to grip, climb and yes, manipulate things (read: fingers). While I don’t see them wielding a sword, the manipulate issue was only somewhat solved by the errata. I think a creature with 16-24 opposable thumbs can do a lot more manipulating than described. And surely, knowing how weak their fangs and venom were, an intelligent race capable of magic and weaving would have developed some sort of weapons or tools, even armor that they could wield? Especially after they met people who screamed “kill it with fire!” How they weren’t hunted down to extinction is a mystery.
Also, as the only real thing they get is 1d6 fangs, there surely should have been other things they could have done.
No low light vision or dark vision, even though spiders are commonly portrayed in fantasy settings as subterranean or nocturnal? Surface dwelling elves get it for some reason… in fact, the list of non-humans that get at least low light vision is extensive, without any logic behind it. 15 foot imprecise tremorsense at 9th level is weak, mainly because you can’t get it until 9th level. If you do, you never get a climb speed.
Web weaver is ok for a 1st level feat, especially considering most Anadi can’t spin webs. But it never gets better. The thing that kills the lore, is it still doesn’t allow for Anadi “weavers”, since anything created must be maintained daily, or dissolve away into nothing. That Anadi blanket being displayed by the peacock spider? Yeah, that dissolved the next day. People didn’t dislike the Anadi because they looked like spiders. It was because the Anadi sold garbage silk that dissolved a day later.
Even with the feats, Anadi can’t have more than weak poison, so it would be better to be take alchemical crafting, and harvest other spiders venom. Half the feats should have been Ancestry features (even just a 5 foot climb speed!), with feats making them better, IMHO. Most things Anadi can do, even if maxed out at 13th level are quickly obsolete within a few levels, when character get access to magic items, spells, poisons, etc.
For reference, every spider in the bestiary has darkvision, websense, powerful venom (OP by Anadi standards) and at least 20 foot climb speed. Most have a web attack. The ones that don’t have other special spider abilities that make up for it. Granted, they don’t get cool stuff like character classes, but still.
All this ranting aside, I’m still playing one. The pure flavor is awesome, and worth it. I understand they can’t give us everything (or even much) without it being OP compared to other ancestries, but as I said before, most ancestry feats are pretty weak, and quickly become obsolete anyway with gear and whatnot. Still, a little something other than the concession that you can’t weave or do magic if you can’t weave or do magic. Paizo does an odd thing with ancestries, in that many cases, PCs are weaker than their bestiary counterparts. I thought PCs were supposed to be exceptional.
Last but not least, while the rare ancestries do seem to only get about 15 feats to pick from, is it just me, or is a level 17 feat missing?

[graystone]

JstCurious wrote:

...

Rolls Will save vs Wall of Text

*rolls 1*
Critically fails Wall of text save
Stunned and Stupefied for 1d4 minutes.
.
..
...

[Gortle]

JstCurious wrote:

For reference, every spider in the bestiary has darkvision, websense, powerful venom (OP by Anadi standards) and at least 20 foot climb speed.

Paizo have been cautious with all their ancestries. Consider the undead options and the various constructed ones. It would be too strong to give them all this from the start.

But it would be nice if we could get some extra ancestry feats to cover and expand on the areas you mention.

[WatersLethe]

I would love more ancestry feats all around. It would make Ancestry Paragon actually meaningful, and likely added to my house rules.

[YuriP]

The main problem about non-human ancestries basically are the humans!

PF2 IMO is the currently D20 system that gives the best support for human specie. They have a good and interesting amount of good and interesting feats. Yet this isn't enough to compensate the most full supernatural abilities of many other ancestries so to prevent theses other non-human ancestries to be stronger than human they are limited by the system compared to other D20 systems and to many legends. That's why some exotic ancestries feels weak or incomplete. The system no-more have level-ajustments to allow to have a big difference between them. So in the end even having many different ancestries some players still have the felling that the aren't so different at all.

But in the end this is good. May an ancestrie cannot be so good as many people want they be but they all are balanced to not overcome the humans.

[Corwin Icewolf]

JstCurious wrote:

When I saw the Anadi, I instantly wanted to play one. Shapechanging, intelligent spider PC? Count me in! Reading the class though, even after the errata, they are a very nerfed ancestry (still playing one for my first pf2e game ever!).

While an amazing concept with some cool lore, it’s clear the developer(s) that came up with it never went through a period in their life where they found spiders fascinating. I’ve seen some in this post mention pedipalps, which is a good step, but no one has mentioned that spiders have 2 claws on every foot, and web weaving spiders have 3, which they use to grip, climb and yes, manipulate things (read: fingers). While I don’t see them wielding a sword, the manipulate issue was only somewhat solved by the errata. I think a creature with 16-24 opposable thumbs can do a lot more manipulating than described. And surely, knowing how weak their fangs and venom were, an intelligent race capable of magic and weaving would have developed some sort of weapons or tools, even armor that they could wield? Especially after they met people who screamed “kill it with fire!” How they weren’t hunted down to extinction is a mystery.
Also, as the only real thing they get is 1d6 fangs, there surely should have been other things they could have done.
No low light vision or dark vision, even though spiders are commonly portrayed in fantasy settings as subterranean or nocturnal? Surface dwelling elves get it for some reason… in fact, the list of non-humans that get at least low light vision is extensive, without any logic behind it. 15 foot imprecise tremorsense at 9th level is weak, mainly because you can’t get it until 9th level. If you do, you never get a climb speed.
Web weaver is ok for a 1st level feat, especially considering most Anadi can’t spin webs. But it never gets better. The thing that kills the lore, is it still doesn’t allow for Anadi “weavers”, since anything created must be maintained daily, or dissolve away into nothing. That Anadi blanket being displayed by the peacock...

If you can't take lower level ancestry feats then I've been doing it wrong. And if you get to level 17 you may as well, since there's currently no 17th level ancestry feats for Anadi. Which is its own problem, of course.