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I'll admit I've been stewing on this one for a bit, but I decided to wait at least until the day the PDF was publicly available so that *at least* Subscribers could have a good look at things and have some time to think on them. And to also not spoil too many people on something they may have wanted to read first. But in that case, maybe you should leave before reading any further.
And to preface this, I am absolutely loving - no, ADORING the book! My brain is already stewing with ideas on characters, and the whole description of the Expanse and its peoples is just gorgeous. But, there is just one thing that's niggling in the back of my mind...
Was there any reason why the spider form on PC Anadi had to be so darn restrictive?
Can't use weapons? Sure, alright, they aren't a culture drawn to fighting, and other cultures' weapons aren't made for their body types.
Can't use shields? ...Okay, fine. It's not hard to imagine a spider holding up one of their EIGHT LEGS to Raise a Shield, which I could imagine is possible since shield straps are meant to fit on smooth arms, but whatever - again, Anadi aren't a fighting culture, so maybe their limbs just can't handle that.
Can't use held items? Yeah, sure, a lot of held items are definitely awkward for what is effectively the equivalent of a hairy bendy pole to hold - glass bottles for elixirs and potions, smooth wood of canes and staves (despite there being art of an anadi wearing a staff on its back), and the like. I get it.
Can't use *any action with the manipulate trait?* WHOA, there, bucko. Hold on. That's... a bit much. You realize how many actions... *have* the manipulate trait, right? Assuming it really does mean *just* actions RAI and it doesn't include Activities, and not counting all the Feats that have the Manipulate trait... Archives of Nethys counts *23*, and there's one more big one that I'm aware it's missing.
Now, I'm not gonna go into detail on all twenty-three Actions it listed and explain why an Anadi could use one-to-eight of their *eight legs* to at least simulate the things that finger-gifted ancestries can... unless someone else wants me to, it might be a fun exercise. I'm just gonna focus on two, since I think they not only are very detrimental to the Ancestry, but also just show a distinct lack of cohesion between flavor and function of it.
Specifically, Crafting and Casting a Spell with somatic components are both actions that have the Manipulate trait. Now, that already is a pretty big red flag - you're locked off of casting a large portion of spells *and* any Crafting while in your spider form. You *have* to change to human form, or take the Ancestry Feat to gain a Hybrid Form to do these things, along with any of the other 22 actions Archive of Nethys lists.
What do you get in exchange for losing access to weapons, shields, held items, and (for the sake of simplicity) Crafting and a lot of spells?
Agile, Unarmed Fangs that deal 1d6 piercing damage.
Whoa. Are you sure this isn't like a tested version of the Change Shape before release? Even from just a gameplay perspective this is a HUGE cost for a benefit that just isn't gonna be worth it for people who like the spider form.
If I'm a caster character, why even bother being in spider form at all? I either have to tailor my spells to not have any somatic components or just accept that I'm another ancestry for a huge chunk of time. I can't use magic items that aren't worn, and I can't even pass out potions or anything!
Moving past the cost-benefit analysis of the gameplay of this ability, it also presents I think one of the only real flavor-function dissonance moments of the book.
The other reason I chose Craft and Casting somatic Spells in particular is because of the lore implications. Not only were Anadi implied to have great scholars and spell casters, they can only Change Shape because those great minds came together and *created the magic to assume humanoid form* and passed it down through generations - a magic that is specifically mentioned to be a mixture of Illusion and Transmutation, two schools full to the brim of somatic spells! Am I to believe that they simply lost the ability to cast spells while in spider form after they learned how to Change Shape? Maybe, I guess, but it seems fudgy.
Not to mention the image used on that *exact same page* is art referencing the beautiful Peacock Spider. If you've never seen one, then I urge you to - the dances that they perform are nothing short of beautiful. And, I might add, notably complex! For raising two of their seemingly-simple stick limbs and fluttering their plumage about, it's more than what you might expect. If that's the art that you're going to use, then don't you think that an Anadi could potentially think to use two of its limbs in a similar way, but instead to wave around in complex patterns for spellcasting? I sure do!
Even more, you know what that spider is holding (YES, HOLDING)? A blanket! A blanket that one could easily assume that they crafted with their silk! As their Society block states, they're a simple people that do things like farm mushrooms or *weave blankets*. Which... wait, they can't do that unless they're in their humanoid form. You're telling me that native Anadi villages often times aren't full of spider-form Anadi, but human-form Anadi? That seems a bit odd, since they only have that form to make themselves look more amicable for other cultures for trade!
And the salt on the wound? They included the NPC stat blocks for the Anadi Hunter, Sage, and Elder in the book, too - the ones from Age of Ashes: Hellknight Hill according to Archives of Nethys. And they're unchanged from those books.
The Change Shape from *those* stat blocks indicates that Anadi in their spider form can't use... weapons. That's it. Just can't use weapons. Yes, even the level 2-equivalent Anadi Hunter who can't take Hybrid Form yet (even though it wouldn't change what they can or can't do in their spider form regardless and they still have hybrid form because NPC levels aren't real).
I just - really? Either this was a major oversight, or somebody was just waaaay too overzealous to balance a 1d6 fang attack even at the cost of both flavor and fun. Even so, so what if it 'doesn't make sense' if my Anadi can hold a glass bottle - isn't it more fun to come up with a way to roleplay that sort of thing with a table?
I dunno, I'm definitely taking this a bit far with all this text, but at least this was my thought process when trying to mentally process this bit of info in one of the book's creative ancestries - the most adorable, in my opinion. If there's any other people wanting to discuss this, then that'd be great! This would definitely be something I'd have to change with a GM, but others aren't me, so it'd be interesting if others had differing opinions. And either way, discussion probably drives the chance of someone at Paizo looking at this up, which is cool too.
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It's a running theme in Pathfinder 2. For everything I like about the game, the overzealous attitudes to nerfing any chance of using things like shape changes is a serious problem. Check the Hybrid form of Beastkin.
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It's... weirdly inconsistent, too.
Like, Kitsune don't get any egregious defects from being in their tailed form.
Tengu don't NEED to have big noses for big power.
So what gives? Why is it so debilitating for certain ancestries to be in what's perceived to be their *real form* when others are just allowed to use it like the tool that it is - mostly RP-focused with social/intrigue subfocus and okay combat tools sometimes?
EDIT - For those curious, according to this 2e spell database I found there are a grand total of TEN illusion or transmutation spells that do NOT have somatic components, including all Focus Spells. So I can at this moment in time say that somatic components are an important part of those spell schools at LEAST, and that it would take some very fast handwaving to try and justify this limitation from this perspective.
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Its odd as well since they couldn't even do a significant amount of their own feats when in spider form. Just look at Web weaver (you can craft stuff from webs). It heavily implies that you would be in your spider form, as I doubt your humanoid form can produce webs. Yet craft has the manipulate trait.
The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to avoid people cheesing stuff with a combination of climbing and ranged wepons/magic, but the existence of the cliffscale lizardfolk smother that particular idea right away.
All in all, I can see no thematic nor mechanical reason for a complete inability to use manipulate actions. Which is why my group will absolutely allow thongs like magic and some crafting, as well as stuff that we decide is reasonable.
The "no items" I understand from a balancing standpoint, but will make exceptions, so long as people don't abuse it. I certainly can't see an in-universe justification for anadi being unable to fit items to their spider form or make aids that allow for some interactions.
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Gonna house rule the heck out of these
Heck, I could even argue that 'no items' is a little harsh, if understandable by conventional bipedal logic. You wouldn't hold a candle with both feet while fighting after all.
You could just say that an anadi only 'effectively has two arms' while in their spider form and they 'they have to two-hand most conventional items'.
There's lots of interesting rules you could homebrew out of this - but I just hope it's looked at in an official capacity as well, since it's really dogging on these poor peaceful arachnids.
But in the meantime, what's everyone's ideas for homebrew on these guys? Balance-wise, armor ideas (since yes they can RAW wear armor haha), maybe even items that help overcome the weaknesses of the RAW?
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I'll just ignore the manipulate restriction in any game I run. I don't really see the point in it. Seems heavy-handed.
Disclaimer: "Balance" is one of the least important things in my mind.
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I made a thread in the rules forum when it first came out and, yeah, it’s pretty bad.
What I find most irritating though is just how lore breaking it is.
In spider form they are meant to be renowned weavers (shocker!) but crafting has the manipulate trait, so they literally can’t do it. Or, rather, PC’s can’t. No such restriction is in place for the NPC’s in the bestiary.
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I might have an Anadi in my next campaign, so here's how I'm ruling it right now:
Rule:
"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, but you can't use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort nor can you take any action that has the manipulate trait"
Problem(s)
1. Anadi characters are too harshly discouraged from using their spider form both in and out of combat, which is dissatisfying for the player who wanted to play a spider character.
2. The lore consequences of the Anadi being unable to perform manipulate actions in their natural form is too far reaching, and would be unduly difficult to explain away.
3. It would not be fun for the GM to constantly check actions for the manipulate trait and remind my players that they can't do things in their natural form.
Proposed Change:
"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, and you have a set of small, but dexterous claws at the end of your two forelegs which act as hands, except that they cannot be used to effectively wield normal weapons. They can be used to wield weapons with the Anadi trait.
Any one-handed melee or thrown weapon can be modified over the course of 8 hours to have the Anadi trait. This makes the weapon lightweight and graspable by Anadi claws, which reduces the weapon damage by 1."
Consequences:
1. Players can spend as much or as little time in their spider form as they wish without being unduly punished.
2. Anadi can use items, cast spells, and take manipulate actions while in their spider form, potentially while in hard-to-reach locations due to their climbing ability.
3. Anadi can use shields, and potentially use one-handed weapons and thrown weapons.
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Big fan of the proposed change, Waterslethe. Simple. Elegant.
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It's a running theme in Pathfinder 2. For everything I like about the game, the overzealous attitudes to nerfing any chance of using things like shape changes is a serious problem. Check the Hybrid form of Beastkin.
wait what's wrong with the beastkin hybrid form? For a heritage it's pretty weak but I thought the feats more than make up for that
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you have a set of small, but dexterous claws at the end of your two forelegs which act as hands, except that they cannot be used to effectively wield normal weapons. They can be used to wield weapons with the Anadi trait.
All cool, I just want to note that it might be even simpler to mention spiders actually do have a small pair of 'arms' in addition to their 8 legs. These are actually the same pair of limbs that scorpions have their claws on. In many spider species the palps even just look like short legs, while in others they're very fuzzy and held directly in front of the fangs (I note that a google search of peacock spiders seems to demonstrate this latter trend).
It's a running theme in Pathfinder 2. For everything I like about the game, the overzealous attitudes to nerfing any chance of using things like shape changes is a serious problem. Check the Hybrid form of Beastkin.wait what's wrong with the beastkin hybrid form? For a heritage it's pretty weak but I thought the feats more than make up for that
I mean it doesn't really do anything. The only thing you gain in hybrid form is a natural attack that's identical to the natural attack everyone gets for free anyways, except piercing instead of bludgeoning. Flight at 17 stands out as a feat, but it's only a little bit better than what other heritages with similar benefits can pick up anyways.
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Ever since I got my PDF I had been thinking about this. I'm glad I was not the only one to notice it. I was meh about the mechanical implications, I was willing to live with them.
But the lore implications, and the idea that if I wanted to be caster of any kind then 90% of the time I would never be in my cool spider form was kind of frustrating and kept making me think "Then why am I not a human." Especially since it's not even like the Kitsune where the main form is the hybrid form.
I like for the most part, the solutions listed here.
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I mean it doesn't really do anything. The only thing you gain in hybrid form is a natural attack that's identical to the natural attack everyone gets for free anyways, except piercing instead of bludgeoning. Flight at 17 stands out as a feat, but it's only a little bit better than what other heritages with similar benefits can pick up anyways.It's a running theme in Pathfinder 2. For everything I like about the game, the overzealous attitudes to nerfing any chance of using things like shape changes is a serious problem. Check the Hybrid form of Beastkin.wait what's wrong with the beastkin hybrid form? For a heritage it's pretty weak but I thought the feats more than make up for that
permanent on/off switchable enlarge, the senses and flight/climb/swim or speed increase stood out for me going over it.
but yeah the hybrid form by itself does nothing but be a sweet character choice which I was fine with as a tradeoff.
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Who is this ancestry for? I can't imagine anyone wanting to play the spider person race while also preferring to be in a normal human form 95% of the time. I suspect this is going to get house ruled at the vast majority of tables.
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I was so excited for this Ancestry, then I received my PDF and saw how awful it is. So disappointing. Otoh, I really like Conrasu, Gnoll and Shisk, so that's a positive!
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I think the biggest issue is the "can't use actions with the manipulate trait" which I feel is a thing that they're going to errata. It's both incompatible with the lore of the Anadi (they canonically weave blankets and use magic, both things that involve manipulate actions) and even if you built like an Anadi monk who can respectable offense and defense as a spider (handwraps aren't weapons!) not being able to open doors is way too restrictive.
I've seen large snakes open doors, so I don't believe it should be impossible for 5 foot spiders with human intelligence to open doors. Sure, it might be difficult to imagine how a large spider will take a book off of a library shelf, but we regularly assume PCs can do a wide variety of less plausible things, and explaining how you did the thing as the spider is more fun than not being able to do the thing as a spider.
No weapons or armor makes sense to me though, since the Anadi aren't exactly a people would produce these things for their own needs.
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Rule:"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, but you can't use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort nor can you take any action that has the manipulate trait"
Is this exactly how the rule is written with no further information? Is it further clarified elsewhere in the book, perhaps when you get to the hybrid form?
Because exactly as this reads, to me, it says that you aren't flat-footed while climbing, but also you can't use weapons, shields, held items, or take actions with the manipulate trait while climbing either. Presumably because you need to use all of your legs to keep on the surface you're climbing.
And...that doesn't even seem like that would be crazy powerful or anything. Does the spider form have any other inaccessible power that would make it worthwhile to use while giving up such a huge swath of abilities?
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Rule:"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, but you can't use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort nor can you take any action that has the manipulate trait"
Is this exactly how the rule is written with no further information? Is it further clarified elsewhere in the book, perhaps when you get to the hybrid form?
Because exactly as this reads, to me, it says that you aren't flat-footed while climbing, but also you can't use weapons, shields, held items, or take actions with the manipulate trait while climbing either. Presumably because you need to use all of your legs to keep on the surface you're climbing.
And...that doesn't even seem like that would be crazy powerful or anything. Does the spider form have any other inaccessible power that would make it worthwhile to use while giving up such a huge swath of abilities?
Going off a conversation with a Dev I believe that was supposed to the intent, not to lock Anadi out of all Actions, and is on the Errata block.
Going off a conversation with a Dev I believe that was supposed to the intent, not to lock Anadi out of all Actions, and is on the Errata block.
Rule:"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, but you can't use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort nor can you take any action that has the manipulate trait"
Is this exactly how the rule is written with no further information? Is it further clarified elsewhere in the book, perhaps when you get to the hybrid form?
Because exactly as this reads, to me, it says that you aren't flat-footed while climbing, but also you can't use weapons, shields, held items, or take actions with the manipulate trait while climbing either. Presumably because you need to use all of your legs to keep on the surface you're climbing.
And...that doesn't even seem like that would be crazy powerful or anything. Does the spider form have any other inaccessible power that would make it worthwhile to use while giving up such a huge swath of abilities?
Yeah, looking at it again that could very well be the intent.
That was the relevant text from the Change Shape ability, and I couldn't find any other info regarding it in the book.
The Hybrid Shape ancestry feat solves many of the problems discussed in this thread. That feat lets you gain the advantages of the spider form but still freely manipulate objects in your hands.
If the original spider form is errataed, it would raise the question of what advantages are reserved to the hybrid form.
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Hybrid shape can disappear for all i care, it's horrifying and not cute at all
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The Hybrid Shape ancestry feat solves many of the problems discussed in this thread. That feat lets you gain the advantages of the spider form but still freely manipulate objects in your hands.If the original spider form is errataed, it would raise the question of what advantages are reserved to the hybrid form.
Except the hybrid form isn't available to 5th level, it also doesn't explain the lore dissonance, or the flavor of like being your spider form.
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Hybrid shape can disappear for all i care, it's horrifying and not cute at all
I am pretty sure that it is meant to be practical, not cute.
And it does pretty much give away what you are, in case you are trying to pass yourself off as a human caster who can shapeshift into the form of a giant spider.
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Most things I would rather do as a big ol' spider than some sort of humanoid spider. I think that's cooler.
If this is a "when you're climbing, you're using all eight of your legs" thing, that's probably fine. Though I would take feats that let me be a spider and hang from the ceiling and cast spells or otherwise use manipulate traits.
Except, once again, look in the stat block for the Anadi Hunter, Elder, and Sage from Hellknight Hill. Their Change Shape block is worded similarly, and likely meant to be the exact same ability, usage-wise.
"Change Shape [Single Action] (arcane, concentrate, polymorph, transmutation) The anadi changes into their hybrid form, spider form, or human form. The above statistics assume the anadi is in their hybrid form. While in their human form, the anadi hunter can't use their fangs attack and loses their climb Speed. When in spider form, they can't use weapons."
I wonder if at some point they were toying with all PC Anadi having an innate Climb Speed and so had those restrictions in place so that you weren't just blasting spells from places melees could never hope to hit you from, but right before finalizing and printing somebody axed the Climb Speed but forgot to undo the extra restrictions, too.
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I agree that the hybrid form does need a reason to exist, but I feel the real form needs it more. Also, hybrid form competes with an improvement to the fangs attack and to the wacky shenanigans Friendform.
Maybe the hybrid form can get something to give it a special purpose? Maybe something like: When you assume your hybrid form, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus to intimidation checks against any non-Anadi creature who saw the transformation. Regardless of the result, the creature is immune for 24 hours.
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I mean all Hybrid Form needs to be is just that - just a way to access the best of both worlds. It doesn't "need a reason to exist" because it already does, just as the Kitsune's does. All a Kitsune loses by changing into their human form is their Kitsune unarmed strikes, and all they gain is counting as having created a disguise when Impersonating. Hybrid Form lets them "speak in a fox form, use kitsune unarmed attacks in a tailless form, or gain a tail in your tailless form to use abilities that require one."
If you changed the limitation on spider form to only be on wielding weapons, then you would still have a great reason to pick up Hybrid Form mechanically - you would gain your unarmed strike (and possibly venom) and not be flat-footed when Climbing, *and* you would get access to weapons!
That sounds completely fine to me. As it is now, Anadi spellcasters who want to be in spider form are feat taxed into taking Hybrid Form, and even then it's still not *really* spider form. And we know how much feat taxing is antithetical to 2e.
Seems like a pretty plain instance of poor wording or a missed change to me. Just apply those restrictions only when climbing until the errata drops, or use something like WatersLethe's wording above.
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An adaptive anadi bard can work ok in spider form: your focus spells are verbal only as is Shield and you can take Adopted Ancestry [elf] at 1st for Elemental Wrath [acid splash with acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage and is verbal only] so you have an attack cantrip, a defensive cantrip and can buff the party all in spider form.
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I think the restrictions only applying while climbing is a bit overly optimistic. Especially given the wording in Hybrid Shape
This form gains all the benefits of your spider shape as well as the ability to use items and take manipulate actions just as easily as your human shape.
It seems fairly clear that the authorial intent was not that items/manipulate actions are only restricted while climbing.
What is fun, logical, and usable is a different story.
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I think "you need hybrid shape to be able to bite and also use weapons" is a reasonable compromise. Since the Anadi have a functional society in which they presumably spend a lot of time in their natural form, "no manipulate actions when a spider" is too much though.
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I...wha? I just saw the Anadi Hyrbid shape for the first time.
While I love how Paizo thinks outside the box, when I hear human-spider hybrid I am expecting...not that.
The form is cool looking, sure but I was really excited to try out Golarian's version of an arachne.
On topic, I don't think that the wording of Hybrid shape actually proves that the interpretation of "You can't use these things while climbing" is wrong. "The ability to use items and take manipulate actions as easily as your human shape" would include the ability to use these things while climbing, yes?
I don't really feel like we have enough information to say one way or the other yet, and both interpretations seem reasonable.
I mean all Hybrid Form needs to be is just that - just a way to access the best of both worlds. It doesn't "need a reason to exist" because it already does, just as the Kitsune's does. All a Kitsune loses by changing into their human form is their Kitsune unarmed strikes, and all they gain is counting as having created a disguise when Impersonating. Hybrid Form lets them "speak in a fox form, use kitsune unarmed attacks in a tailless form, or gain a tail in your tailless form to use abilities that require one."
-cut for space-
Sorry, my post was directed at David. My intended point was that we shouldn't keep the true form restricted to niche builds just to protect a single feat. Your suggestion to copy the bestiary version is much better than the random feat idea I gave.
That said, I don't think kitsune and anadi are comparable. The kitsune's "hybrid form" is giving their possible disguise forms the benefits of their default human-fox hybrid form. The anadi's "hybrid form" gives them what the kitsune (and human beastkin) started with and leaves their true and disguise forms unaltered. I will give you, the anadi's true form can already speak, but I think that's already a fair trade against pest form's various boons. (In my AoA campaign, the Kitsune player has gotten nice use out of the acrobatics and stealth without investing in them normally.)
Maybe it's because I don't see how slightly better AC while specifically climbing is useful, but why would a player who wants to use weapons and sometimes bite people as a spider-headed human not just take human beastkin and start with it? Or if you're all in on biting, why bother with weapons?
My favorite thing I've learned this thread is that, as currently written, all of the anadi holding things in official art is mechanically impossible, but they can somehow cram their big spider bodies into humanoid plate mail with no difficulty or downside. It makes it feel like the anadi were designed as humans with a spider-motif with the spider form tacked on at the last minute and that makes me sad because we know that isn't true.
Going off a conversation with a Dev I believe that was supposed to the intent, not to lock Anadi out of all Actions, and is on the Errata block.
Rule:"In your spider shape, you aren't flat-footed when climbing, but you can't use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort nor can you take any action that has the manipulate trait"
It's not even the intent, it's exactly how that works as its written. The limitation on using weapons, shields, or other items isn't an independent clause. If it was independent it would've read as a list without the conjunction. The but explicitly modifies what happens when you're climbing.
You get this good thing, but these other things also occur as well.
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New FAQ update about the Anadi:
Page 103: The Anadi Change Shape ability should allow a different set of actions in spider form to allow more manipulate actions than it currently does. Change it to say "You change into your human or spider shape. Each shape has a specific, persistent appearance. In your human shape, you can’t use unarmed attacks granted by your ancestry. You aren’t flat footed when climbing in your spider shape. However, in your spider shape you can’t use weapons, shields, or other held items of any sort, and you are limited in what actions you can take that have the manipulate trait. The only manipulate actions you can take are to Cast a Spell with somatic components, weave silk or webbing, or simple Interact actions such as opening an unlocked door. Your spider legs can't perform actions that require fingers or significant manual dexterity, including any action that would require a check to accomplish. The GM might determine other manipulate actions are appropriate for your spider legs"
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That's close to what I was looking for. I like that Anadi aren't really able to use weapons when in their natural shape, since they have weapons on their faces anyway and they're a friendly people.
It does feel like you should also be able to supply manipulate actions for material or focus components, since presumably in thousands of years of Anadi magecraft they've figured out how to do this. After all, it'd be weird if an Anadi Transmuter Wizard would have to change shape to cast "Transmute Rock and Mud." But that's probably under GM discretion.
Still, your pedipalps are probably plenty dextrous so could manage "get a thing from a conveniently placed pouch" just as easily as they could manage "deliver food to mouth region."
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I would have been more leniant in my homebrew but this is perfectly satisfying for me.
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If you are looking for an Arachne-like race in Pathfinder/Golarion then I suggest the Driders. In lore they are a race/ancestry of fleshwarped drow who originate from House Parastric. Also doubt they will ever be added as a playable ancestry in PF2 for a number of reasons: Large size, innate climb, greater spell resistance (which I have no idea how they will implement it), fast speed, bonus vs trip, and the fact they are aberations. Not including any potential Drow stuff they might add.I...wha? I just saw the Anadi Hyrbid shape for the first time.
While I love how Paizo thinks outside the box, when I hear human-spider hybrid I am expecting...not that.
The form is cool looking, sure but I was really excited to try out Golarian's version of an arachne.
I'm perfectly aware that these things exist. But I really just adore the Anadi, their design (outside of the Hybrid form), their culture, their bashful sweetness.
I don't want to play as a monstrous fleshwarp meant to shock and horrify. I wanna be a sweet spider-person who get's flustered when people start yelling because "we're all friends, right? Why are you getting mad at each other?"
And yes, I realize that it's incredibly petty to be like "I WANT THIS EXACT THING EXACTLY THE WAY THAT I WANT IT AND NOT THAT THING!!!". And given the mechanics of the Hybrid form, there is no reason at all I can't just flavor a version of the Anadi in my games as having a body design like an Arachne in the hybrid form. It works just as well with the benefits you gain from that form.
It's really just more me expressing shock at how different the reality was from my expectations.
Either way, I'm glad that a clarification was made. The version of the ability given above works much better and is very much reasonable for the Spider form, while also making it worthwhile to pick up the Hybrid form.
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At the *very* least it was seen and changed a little bit. I personally would argue for more leniency, but the GM clause is there so hopefully that allows for tables to better use this ancestry.
It's surprising how much a single line that basically just reaffirms Rule 0 can change the dynamic of a rule. Like, sure, a GM can technically do whatever they and the players are okay with - but if even the book says it then it feels a lot less like a jury-rig and more like a 'we decided this.'
If it were my table I'd probably rule that:
- Spider form Anadi could wield a shield in a spider leg in exchange for a -5 penalty to all of their speeds (Having an odd balance and needing more careful movement than normal).
- Still no conventional weapons, but they can wield held items of Light or Negligible Bulk in their pedipalps - but while they do so they cannot use their fang attack, as obviously the object is in the way.
- A material component pouch or spellcasting focus can be tied around the Anadi's... neck-equivalent area and used by the pedipalps for material (or focus) components of spells if and only if the pedipalps aren't holding anything (which... I think would just count as 'not having a free hand' but since Anadi are ambiguous that way, probably best to be specific). If another table were to use this and think that's too powerful then you can maybe make the pouch/focus require investment, like a magic item.
- There's so many actions with the 'manipulate' trait that it'd take forever to go through all of them, but let's just say a lot of these are imaginable when you remember that pedipalps on spiders are often times sensory organs/manipulators (among... other functions) and that having 8 stick legs can still be sorta dexterous as long as you're standing still.
This way there's still 'restrictions' on doing things that the body was not naturally and biologically designed for that you can then take Hybrid Shape to be rid of when you want to, but they don't lock the player out of doing these things entirely - remember; they're still intelligent and sapient spider folk. Humans do things that their bodies aren't made for all the time, after all - we just call it ingenuity!