Secrets of magic hype

[YuriP]

Ashanderai wrote:

“…any specific witch content we can expect?” – “Unfortunately, no! We were very, VERY limited by space in this book, so the only classes that got unique features are druid, monk, and wizard.”

This is a very bad news for witches. They probably will have to wait some years to receive some new cool stuff.

[Davido1000]

Yeah, ive kind of had to fill in the blanks with the witch myself with some homebrew ripped from 1e. Its not perfect but it makes my player happy.

[Riddlyn]

As long as people continue to try and compare the classes in 2e to 1e classes they are always going to be unhappy. Personally I'm super excited for SoM, I'm playing a modified version of the playtest Magus. I hope they kept the arcane fist. I haven't seen much in the way of support for an unarmed magus

[Invictus Novo]

Riddlyn wrote:

As long as people continue to try and compare the classes in 2e to 1e classes they are always going to be unhappy. Personally I'm super excited for SoM, I'm playing a modified version of the playtest Magus. I hope they kept the arcane fist. I haven't seen much in the way of support for an unarmed magus

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

[Ly'ualdre]

Invictus Novo wrote:

Riddlyn wrote:

As long as people continue to try and compare the classes in 2e to 1e classes they are always going to be unhappy. Personally I'm super excited for SoM, I'm playing a modified version of the playtest Magus. I hope they kept the arcane fist. I haven't seen much in the way of support for an unarmed magus

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

This is good. But, I think most that want unarmed support for Magus (myself included) want to see a Hybrid Study for unarmed. Which, fairly certain, didn't make this book. Maybe in the future. I think a baseline support is good enough for the moment. If I had to guess, best build for this would likely be the Laughing Shadow Hybrid Study; since unarmed attacks are technically one handed weapons while also leaving you with a free hand.

[Davido1000]

Riddlyn wrote:

As long as people continue to try and compare the classes in 2e to 1e classes they are always going to be unhappy. Personally I'm super excited for SoM, I'm playing a modified version of the playtest Magus. I hope they kept the arcane fist. I haven't seen much in the way of support for an unarmed magus

I don't think anyone was comparing it to the 1e version here. It just has a lot of holes in its design that need filled or tweaked in comparison to other 2e classes in my opinion.

[Old_Man_Robot]

Almost none of the criticism I see of the Witch has anything at all to do with 1e, but it is a common retort to people’s criticisms.

There are parts of PF2e that don’t hold up internally compared to the rest of the system itself. Intra-system complaints haven’t been relevant talking points for years now.

[Squiggit]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Almost none of the criticism I see of the Witch has anything at all to do with 1e

There have been some, but it's usually about scope, not power. Other people keep trying to make it a debate about power to 'refute' those opinions and gaslight the people who have them, though.

[Riddlyn]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Almost none of the criticism I see of the Witch has anything at all to do with 1e, but it is a common retort to people’s criticisms.

There are parts of PF2e that don’t hold up internally compared to the rest of the system itself. Intra-system complaints haven’t been relevant talking points for years now.

Really because quite a bit in this thread I've seen statements such as in 1e the witch could do so much more with hexes. Or Magus in 1e could exploit low level touch spells. It's been a rather common and reoccurring theme.

[siegfriedliner]

Riddlyn wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Almost none of the criticism I see of the Witch has anything at all to do with 1e, but it is a common retort to people’s criticisms.

There are parts of PF2e that don’t hold up internally compared to the rest of the system itself. Intra-system complaints haven’t been relevant talking points for years now.

Really because quite a bit in this thread I've seen statements such as in 1e the witch could do so much more with hexes. Or Magus in 1e could exploit low level touch spells. It's been a rather common and reoccurring theme.

I think the biggest point of comparison to the witch is the bard who is also a 3 slot caster with 1 action cantrips and theirs are better and better supported.

[Paradozen]

Perhaps the discussion about witches is reaching the point where it should go to the thread about it rather than this thread about a book that doesn't have witch-specific content?

On a different note, big thanks to Ashanderai for the Magus notes (and Summoner notes)! I'm curious how well unarmed strikes will serve a magus who doesn't particularly focus on them. One of my players often surprises me with a punch on characters that are not focused on unarmed attacks with reasonable success (partly ABP, partly their class features are full-strength without focusing on their weapons), so I hope Magus has good options in that regard too. I wonder if Force Punch from 1e will have a 2e equivalent (or has one I'm unaware of)? I always liked the image of an unarmed archetype magus using Force Punch with a fist to punch something across a room.

[Ashanderai]

In regards the unarmed magus builds folks would like to see, please notice that the playtest had the 1st level Arcane Fists feat and that Paizo already told us, “In general we keep almost every feat from the playtest except ones people really don't like or ones that just purely don't work due to playtest changes. So just about every feat people have asked so far if it's still in, the answer is yes, and that'll continue”

I don't see any reason that they would not bring this feat forward into the final version of the class. I know it isn't a Hybrid Style of its own. But, between Arcane Fists and either the Laughing Shadow, Starlit Span, or Twisting Trees Hybrid Stances, I think a decent magus build could come out of it.

[Xethik]

Ashanderai wrote:

In regards the unarmed magus builds folks would like to see, please notice that the playtest had the 1st level Arcane Fists feat and that Paizo already told us, “In general we keep almost every feat from the playtest except ones people really don't like or ones that just purely don't work due to playtest changes. So just about every feat people have asked so far if it's still in, the answer is yes, and that'll continue”

I don't see any reason that they would not bring this feat forward into the final version of the class. I know it isn't a Hybrid Style of its own. But, between Arcane Fists and either the Laughing Shadow, Starlit Span, or Twisting Trees Hybrid Stances, I think a decent magus build could come out of it.

I don't have a citation but I believe I heard that Arcane Fists has been removed, but you can spellstrike with unarmed attacks without it (as mentioned above). I believe it was partially due to the awkwardness of not being able to spellstrike with your preferred weapon at level 1 (unless you were a Human with the right feat) and didn't seem feat-gate-worthy... But I might be misrecalling the exact details.

[Romão98]

When do you think spoilers will start popping up?
I love this short period when people receive their books or pdfs early and respond to questions from those who haven't received or purchased it yet!

[Squiggit]

Being able to unarmed strike with spellstrike right out the gate is nice. I hope Arcane Fist exists in some form to buff them though just because d4s feel kinda bad and I don't want to see every fist magus pushed into martial artist.

Not the end of the world. Though TBH I almost feel like there should just be some generic equivalent to Deadly Simplicity in general so people could buy up their simple weapons if they want to.

Romão98 wrote:

When do you think spoilers will start popping up?

If the book ships on time pretty soon. If not, it'll just depend on how long Paizo delays things again.

[Invictus Novo]

Romão98 wrote:

When do you think spoilers will start popping up?

I love this short period when people receive their books or pdfs early and respond to questions from those who haven't received or purchased it yet!

Barring any more delays, they should start shipping this week or early next. Let's hope there are no more delays.

[belgrath9344]

I'm really interested in the new magic systems themselves ley lines, pervasive magic ect as well as new spells & magic items. don't really care about the new classes since I'm a forever dm. really interested in the lore on each magic school as well

[Rude_]

belgrath9344 wrote:

I'm really interested in the new magic systems themselves ley lines, pervasive magic ect as well as new spells & magic items. don't really care about the new classes since I'm a forever dm. really interested in the lore on each magic school as well

Same here, I can build some new classes but as the forever GM I'll rarely ever play them. Looking forward to Ley Lines and Pervasive Magic. Hoping to incorporate True Names somehow as well

[Candlejake]

Very interested in what inexorable Irons focus spell is. Gun Magus also sounds like such a fun thing.

This book is gonna be so great. Summoner also looks fantastic. I know for a lot of pf1 people the playtest was a letdown but i think the class looks dope as f$!#.

[vagrant-poet]

I really liked the Summoner from Day one. I ALWAYS lo0ved the stories the summoner could tell, but didn't really like the implementation in PF1. So I'm very happy with it.

[Ed Reppert]

Candlejake wrote:

Very interested in what inexorable Irons focus spell is.

It ensures that your clothes are always well pressed. :-)

[Paradozen]

I wonder if the magic-focused fey summoners will be comparable to full casters or if they will be in a bit of a side-niche magic wise. I could see the eidolon effectively supplementing the summoner's spell slots so they have as many as a full caster, with the eidolon having the low-level tricks and the summoner having the upper wave slots. But I also wonder if maybe it'll be in some side niche, similarish to how alchemist fits into a side niche where it isn't a martial or a spellcaster but it is a unique type of support.

[Invictus Novo]

Paradozen wrote:

I wonder if the magic-focused fey summoners will be comparable to full casters or if they will be in a bit of a side-niche magic wise. I could see the eidolon effectively supplementing the summoner's spell slots so they have as many as a full caster, with the eidolon having the low-level tricks and the summoner having the upper wave slots. But I also wonder if maybe it'll be in some side niche, similarish to how alchemist fits into a side niche where it isn't a martial or a spellcaster but it is a unique type of support.

I've been wondering about this as well. I mean a full caster has somewhere between 27 and 36ish spellslots at the end compared to 4 for typical Summoner.

I can't see the Fey Eidolon giving nearly enough to catch up in total and they will probably give up much of their martial prowess too. So, to be worthwhile at all the class/Eidolon is going to have to have some sort of niche.

[Midnightoker]

Invictus Novo wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

I wonder if the magic-focused fey summoners will be comparable to full casters or if they will be in a bit of a side-niche magic wise. I could see the eidolon effectively supplementing the summoner's spell slots so they have as many as a full caster, with the eidolon having the low-level tricks and the summoner having the upper wave slots. But I also wonder if maybe it'll be in some side niche, similarish to how alchemist fits into a side niche where it isn't a martial or a spellcaster but it is a unique type of support.

I've been wondering about this as well. I mean a full caster has somewhere between 27 and 36ish spellslots at the end compared to 4 for typical Summoner.

I can't see the Fey Eidolon giving nearly enough to catch up in total and they will probably give up much of their martial prowess too. So, to be worthwhile at all the class/Eidolon is going to have to have some sort of niche.

If they do go the route of additional spells, I imagine it will be similar to how the Magus works with Hybrid Study.

[siegfriedliner]

Invictus Novo wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

I wonder if the magic-focused fey summoners will be comparable to full casters or if they will be in a bit of a side-niche magic wise. I could see the eidolon effectively supplementing the summoner's spell slots so they have as many as a full caster, with the eidolon having the low-level tricks and the summoner having the upper wave slots. But I also wonder if maybe it'll be in some side niche, similarish to how alchemist fits into a side niche where it isn't a martial or a spellcaster but it is a unique type of support.

I've been wondering about this as well. I mean a full caster has somewhere between 27 and 36ish spellslots at the end compared to 4 for typical Summoner.

I can't see the Fey Eidolon giving nearly enough to catch up in total and they will probably give up much of their martial prowess too. So, to be worthwhile at all the class/Eidolon is going to have to have some sort of niche.

I personally expect they will still have master proficiencies but start with a magic class fear for free and get access to a few unique magic class Feats.

[Paradozen]

Midnightoker wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

I wonder if the magic-focused fey summoners will be comparable to full casters or if they will be in a bit of a side-niche magic wise. I could see the eidolon effectively supplementing the summoner's spell slots so they have as many as a full caster, with the eidolon having the low-level tricks and the summoner having the upper wave slots. But I also wonder if maybe it'll be in some side niche, similarish to how alchemist fits into a side niche where it isn't a martial or a spellcaster but it is a unique type of support.

I've been wondering about this as well. I mean a full caster has somewhere between 27 and 36ish spellslots at the end compared to 4 for typical Summoner.

I can't see the Fey Eidolon giving nearly enough to catch up in total and they will probably give up much of their martial prowess too. So, to be worthwhile at all the class/Eidolon is going to have to have some sort of niche.

If they do go the route of additional spells, I imagine it will be similar to how the Magus works with Hybrid Study.

From Ashanderai's paizocon summoner notes it seems eidolons will definitely get additional spells alongside the summoner getting spells, and the fey eidolon will get additional magic from level 1. Also says its focused on tricks and such, which might mean they get some non-spell trickery to do in a fight but also might be me reading into things. I think that'll be more expansive than hybrid studies since it says eidolons can get more spells than their summoners.

[Michael Sayre]

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

[Gisher]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

Very cool! Some love for Leshy seed pods.

[pixierose]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

That is fantastic news, makes me really excited to do some kind of Unarmed Ranged Sprite Magus.

[wegrata]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

Yeah kitsune magus with monk archtype became really interesting for me. Foxfire plus rain of embers with a magus seems really fun.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

What you're telling me is that I can load my cute little Foxfire on a kitsune magus, with some huge crushing blast of magic?

Thats very, very cool, especually since you can use it to technically mix elements, with your little fire exploding into a shocking grasp.

[HumbleGamer]

Always thought it was more a flavor thing rather than a viable attack, because of the 1d4 die and 20 reach.

[Squiggit]

As a primary attack it's pretty bad (they're the second weakest attacks in the game, edging out only blowgun strikes) but being able to load a spell and other damage modifiers on it might make them more appealing, especially as something to just have in your back pocket when normal attacks are impractical.

[Kalaam]

wegrata wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

Yeah kitsune magus with monk archtype became really interesting for me. Foxfire plus rain of embers with a magus seems really fun.

Will you want some physical damage along with your Fox Fire Embery Produce Flame Spellstrike ?

[wegrata]

Kalaam wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

Yeah kitsune magus with monk archtype became really interesting for me. Foxfire plus rain of embers with a magus seems really fun.

Will you want some physical damage along with your Fox Fire Embery Produce Flame Spellstrike ?

Yeah but I have fists and claws for that.

[Aaron Shanks]

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

[Kelseus]

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

Aaron, I see you are making the rounds.

[HumbleGamer]

I can't tell anymore whether I feel teased or hyped.

[The Raven Black]

Squiggit wrote:

As a primary attack it's pretty bad (they're the second weakest attacks in the game, edging out only blowgun strikes) but being able to load a spell and other damage modifiers on it might make them more appealing, especially as something to just have in your back pocket when normal attacks are impractical.

They can be enhanced along your melee unarmed attacks basically for free. In fact, except for the playtest doubling rings, they are the only ranged attacks you can share your melee enhancements with for free. And they are the only ranged attacks an Animal Barbarian can make while raging.

Niche, but pretty good there.

[Filthy Lucre]

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

This all but confirms that the book won't ship this week :'/

[Paul Watson]

Filthy Lucre wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

This all but confirms that the book won't ship this week :'/

This was confirmed in the August shipping thread in Customer Service. Shipping is expected to start next Monday the 16th. However, there are still some items awaiting arrival at the warehouse, so this may still slip a little.

[Riddlyn]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Invictus Novo wrote:

They have specifically said that the current Magus fully supports unarmed. I think it was mentioned at Paizocon and they said it is baseline now that spellstrike can be done with a melee weapon or melee unarmed strike.

(I even made a point of ensuring the ranged magus stuff specifically worked with ranged unarmed attacks, too, which have had a tendency to be under-supported since there was only like one in the entire game when the CRB came out.)

Will unarmed damage be a d4 or a d6 and can they still get critical specialization for brawling attacks? That's what I meant by the feat

[Invictus Novo]

Paul Watson wrote:

Filthy Lucre wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

This all but confirms that the book won't ship this week :'/

This was confirmed in the August shipping thread in Customer Service. Shipping is expected to start next Monday the 16th. However, there are still some items awaiting arrival at the warehouse, so this may still slip a little.

It's that last part that has me worried. It was immediately added after the thread went up. I'm hoping it just means they hadn't taken full inventory yet and are just covering themselves. We'll know soon enough I suppose.

[AnimatedPaper]

Invictus Novo wrote:

Paul Watson wrote:

Filthy Lucre wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

This all but confirms that the book won't ship this week :'/

This was confirmed in the August shipping thread in Customer Service. Shipping is expected to start next Monday the 16th. However, there are still some items awaiting arrival at the warehouse, so this may still slip a little.

It's that last part that has me worried. It was immediately added after the thread went up. I'm hoping it just means they hadn't taken full inventory yet and are just covering themselves. We'll know soon enough I suppose.

I’m not worried about SoM. I’m a bit concerned about the APs though.but as you said, we’ll know soon enough.

[Aaron Shanks]

Kelseus wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

Aaron, I see you are making the rounds.

jJust keeping all the plates spinning. ;)

[Plate]

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Kelseus wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

I'll have Pathfinder Lead Designer Logan Bonner as one of my 7 guests on Paizo LIVE this Friday from 4 to 6 PM Pacific. He will speak for more than 20 minutes on Pathfinder Secrets of Magic. twitch.tv/officialpaizo

Aaron, I see you are making the rounds.

jJust keeping all the plates spinning. ;)

Wheee!

[Ezekieru]

Here's the latest Secrets of Magic livestream spoilers I took from tonight!

We're getting less and less with each stream, but the random Guns & Gears spoiler in here was really nice. I'll be on the look out this Friday for those Paizo LIVE spoilers, see if Logan can't whet our appetite right before the subscriptions (hopefully) go out next week!

[Squiggit]

A commenter in that reddit thread (u/lumgeon) mentioned the magus Spellstriking and then attacking again at -4 instead of -8.

Pretty nice if that's correct.

[Kelseus]

August Subs thread is up, but still locked. Guess we'll see if they actually start order generation today...........................................................

God the wait is killing me!

[Invictus Novo]

Well, in last night's stream Jason did make a point of plugging Secrets of Magic for coming out in "a few weeks." If it was being delayed again I think he probably would have either changed his wording or simply not mentioned it directly.