I have a history of not understanding the power of certain classes the scout archetype for the rogue is a great example, however I cannot see how the eldritch scoundrel is in anyway comparable to a classic Arcane Trickster.
The Main Advantages of the Scoundrel are as I see it:
1. Favored Class Bonus which is rarely impactful enough to be worth tanking an entire build.
2. A more consistent BAB but with the Arcane Trickster Touch Spells are your bread and butter so hitting isn't hard.
3. HP as a full rogue your D8 is minorly better than the D6 awarded from the wizard dip and the arcane trickster itself.
4. Finally Rogue Tricks being able to take ninja tricks even whilst u-rogue is pretty nice and supplementing Ki-points with spell slots seems interesting at the very least. Also as such a multi-classed character the Trickster gains a single rogue trick which doesn't give much to work with.
5. You gain news spells on level up unlike the Trickster but unless your a very low magic world that will almost never come up as a major draw of a class.
The Major Disadvantages largely out weigh these in my opinion mainly being:
1. You will gain a max 5d6 sneak attack vs the 7d6 minimum awarded with the Trickster even if you take the minimum amount of rogue levels possible.
2. Even though I mentioned rogue tricks as an advantage you also gain decreased progression speed so you'll have only 5 and if you want uncanny dodge and the improved version you'll have to give 2 of those further limiting your use.
3. Only access to 6th level spells compared to the potential of 9th level at 20 with Trickster.
All in all this entire archetype seems to repetitively attempt to do what the Trickster does but worse all for only marginal upsides. Without even mentioning the fact that the Trickster's other abilities the scoundrel effectively is just a worse rogue and unless full levels of a sneak attack crippled and rogue trick starved u-rogue make up such a difference I can't imagine what the point of the archetype is let alone why anyone would play unless you loathe multiclassing that much.
It about getting all the 'goods' of an arcane-themed rogue in one 'package'. It is really that simple. Now, whether or not it is objectively BETTER or not is an entirely differently matter entirely. It all boils down to SUBJECTIVE opinion.
Personally? I'd opt to play an Eldritch Scoundrel EVERY time over an Arcane Trickster. Why? Because the d8, 3/4 BAB, 6-th level casting classes are my preferred play style (though I like spontaneous over prepared if given the option). Sure, you don't get 7th+ level spells. You get scaling Rogue Talent/Ninja Tricks. You can keep getting favored class bonuses for the Rogue class (which can be 3 extra rogue talents depending on racial choice).
I tend to look at it like this: Adding spells and a unique mechanic with fueling Ki-powered abilities with spells is more than a fair trade off for what you lose. Spells are often more useful, more often, than sneak attack dice. Also, Prestige Classes are not automatically available for player use. They are under the DM purview, as per the entry in the introduction to prestige classes.
Eldritch Scoundrel is what the Arcane Trickster should have been. Arcane Trickster is fine if you want to make a spellcaster less boring... sprinkle in some fun Rogue stuff, but we all know you are still just a Wizard playing Rogue. Eldritch Scoundrel at least has the BAB to tempt you into combat. Has a D8 hit dice so you can try survive said combat. And still offers most of the normal Rogue stuff.
Sneak Attack blows, so adding it a spellcaster isn't nearly as big of a bonus as adding spells to a Rogue. If you only think of Rogue's as sacks of Sneak Attack, then I can see how you may think Eldritch Scoundrel is worse than Acrane Trickster. If you understand just how s%$@ty Sneak Attack generally is, then the draw of giving up Sneak Attack to add 6th level spells to a Rogue may be more appealing.
I wouldn't focus on level 20 too much. In actual play it's probably the level with the least session amount (of the pre-epic range), the number is only slightly bumped by the odd level 20 one-shot. The 2018 survey suggests that the average PC makes it to level 11.
I'd rather plan for level 1, ~5, ~10 and maybe ~15. That's when the game changes significantly, and it doesn't hurt to be (more or less) prepared for that. The unreliable promise of 9th-level spells multiple real life years in the future is far less important than survival and success at low and medium levels.
Beyond that, don't forget the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat (+1d6 sneak damage), IMO it's relevant for both approaches. I wouldn't dismiss HP from d8 HD and FCB either - you might think you are safe with the other PCs in front of you, and your nifty defensive spells, but that doesn't always work out in practice.
In light of what Sheepish Eidolon mentioned, I will say that Arcane Trickster is noteworthy in both that it can be entered at level 5, instead of 6 like most other prestige classes, and it has full spellcasting progression.
One of my favorite uses of Arcane Trickster is to simply use it to continue the Eldritch Scoundrel's spellcasting to the point they can cast Animate Dead...
Eldritch Scoundrel 4/
Arcane Trickster 6/
Agent of the Grave 5
Sure, you have Dex-to-DMG and Debilitating Injury, Impromptu Sneak Attack, and Tricky Spells... but nothing says you have to focus your character around such things... they are just nice to have in your back pocket when you turn into a Lich.
Are there better paths to being a necromancer? Absolutely. But this particular approach provides lots of fun stuff that is otherwise lacking from most such builds... shouldn't ever run out of stuff to do. Don't want to get bored, eternity is a long time.
Sometimes, people want to play a martial. Eldritch Scoundrel (ES) is much better than Arcane Trickster (AT) when it comes to martial combat.
It's that simple.
What makes ES a much better martial is not just the higher BAB and HP, but that it also grants Dex-to-damage at 3rd level* and Debilitating Injury at 4th level (and Advanced Rogue Talents at 12th level, although I'm not convinces that's better than swift action Greater Invis which AT get at 13th level).
The HP difference is also notable - presuming FCB put into HP, for example at 10th level (with 10 con for ease of comparison), an ES has 63 HP whereas a R1/W3/AT6 build has 47 HP.
Don't get me wrong, I do think the Eldritch Scoundrel archetypes primarily exists so that emo teens who listen to Muse and NIN all day and think that they have to play a class called "Rogue" so that their character can be hard and edgy now have to option to a 6/9 caster. But Arcane Trickster is not really a competition to Eldritch Scoundrel, as they lean towards totally different character concepts.
*) Presuming Arcane Trickster was entered via Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Without the feat, it takes until 14th level before the AT has a higher maximum spell level.
Don't get me wrong, I do think the Eldritch Scoundrel archetypes primarily exists so that emo teens who listen to Muse and NIN all day and think that they have to play a class called "Rogue" so that their character can be hard and edgy now have to option to a 6/9 caster. But Arcane Trickster is not really a competition to Eldritch Scoundrel, as they lean towards totally different character concepts.
I've never quite understood where/when the 'emo teen' thing was associated with Rogues, though I see it a LOT in the recent social media lately, though most often with D&D 5th content. Maybe its my age/gaming range of experience, but when I play Rogues, it is for very different reasons than that. Then again, I haven't played a 'pure' Rogue character ... ever, it has always been a multiclass option for me.
The new spells at level up are of your choice. No need to worry about the GM letting you get access to a particular spell, no need to go back to town at an awkward point in the adventure, they're just there. It makes a difference.
People can have an unnatural attachment to the class named rogue in their forties, it's not just a teen thing.
People can have an unnatural attachment to the class named rogue in their forties, it's not just a teen thing.
Unnatural attachment to a class is one thing. Associating certain subcultures with a class is whole other thing entirely. Worst I've ever seen (experienced, actually) was an expectation that my mage/thief from 2nd edition D&D shouldn't be trusted to be alone with the party loot, just because he was a smuggler before becoming an adventurer. Which I found hilarious as I quickly became THE person/character to best record and protect the loot.
Eldritch Scoundrel and Arcane Trickster are like two sides of the same coin... on one side you have the classic Arcane Trickster who is focused primarily on spellcasting, ranged touch spells are their go-to spells for combat, performing deadly sneak attacks at a distance to make up for their low health and BAB... on the other side you have the Eldritch Scoundrel which uses their spells in a more support and buffing capacity, letting their higher BAB and health pool work to their advantage in combat.
Put simply, Eldritch Scoundrel is the melee counterpart to the classic Arcane Trickster build.
Also, nothing stops you from going into Arcane Trickster as an Eldritch Scoundrel... you can even get an extra sneak attack die out of the deal...
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Sandman Bard 10 is a fun way into Arcane Trickster that does not involve Accomplished Sneak Attack and, more importantly, gives up no spellcasting. At 20, you have BAB +12, +6/+12/+12 base saves, and a full 20 Caster Level.
Edritch Scoundrel cannot even get into, and finish, Arcane Trickster without Accomplished Sneak Attack. Lol. Nor can VMC Rogue. Both would require level 11 to meet the prerequisites.
The VMC ticket is actually Cavalier... Order of the Blossom drops 2D6 Sneak Attack on you at level 8, regardless of your arcane spellcasting class. And a bunch of charm SLA's at 15 and 17. So you can get all of Arcane Trickster entering as a Wizard 8 VMC Cavalier.
Edritch Scoundrel cannot even get into, and finish, Arcane Trickster without Accomplished Sneak Attack. Lol. Nor can VMC Rogue. Both would require level 11 to meet the prerequisites.
Uh... no... Eldritch Scoundrel can qualify for Arcane Trickster without Accomplished Sneak Attack any time after level 7.
Arcane Trickster prerequisites:
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Skills: Disable Device 4 ranks, Escape Artist 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher.
Special: Sneak attack +2d6.
Eldritch Scoundrel meets each of those prerequisites at the following levels.
Alignment: Lv1
Skills: Lv4
Spells: Lv1 (mage hand) & Lv4 (2nd level spells)
Special: Lv7
Now if you don't expect to ever reach level 17... then sure, Eldritch Scoundrel can't qualify and finish Arcane Trickster without the feat... but so long as your game reaches atleast level 17, then it absolutely can.
Oh, my bad. For whatever reason I thought Eldritch Scoundrel got theirs at a different levels... I was wrong.
Eldritch Scoundrel 7 is a perfectly acceptable way into Arcane Trickster... I would probably stick it out for Rogue 8, simply because 3/4 BAB classes and saves do best with levels taken in multiples of 4. That's still two levels faster than Sandman, and doesn't require the Vagabond Child trait to pick up the like one skill Bards don't already have.
Eldritch Scoundrel, technically still beats VMC Cavalier, too. Since absolutely nothing requires you to take the 8th level of Rogue.
Eldritch Scoundrel, technically still beats VMC Cavalier, too. Since absolutely nothing requires you to take the 8th level of Rogue.
Eldritch scoundrel is the single fastest way to get into arcane trickster without multiclassing or using accomplished sneak attacker... well outside of third party material anyways... it is also the only way to get into arcane trickster at level 5 without losing any spellcasting progression... though retraining is required to do so...
sandman bard has a minimum entry of 6th level since it doesn’t get sneak attack until 5th
Wizard with VMC rogue has to wait until 10th (unless they use retraining shenanigans with their 1st or 5th level feats at 7th to get in at 8th)
Wizard with VMC cavalier has minimum entry of level 9 (again without retraining shenanigans)
Wizard + Rogue (or ninja/vivisectionist) can get in at 5th, but loose one level of spellcasting
Wizard 3 / rogue 1 with magical knack has near as much spellcasting as eldritch scoundrel rogue 4 (more with a specialist school), and from arcane trickster 2+ the wizard entry has more even if they're a universalist. Losing less spellcasting is not really the reason to go with ES into arcane trickster.
Don't forget that your Eldritch Scoundrel can cast Sense Vitals spell and regain their lost sneak attack damage progression. And they can then follow it up with make multiple weapon attacks to really benefit from that extra damage dice.
If a rogue were to successfully land their multiple weapon sneak attacks, they're definitely going to do better than a single ranged touch attack with sneak attack.
Wizard 3 / rogue 1 with magical knack has near as much spellcasting as eldritch scoundrel rogue 4 (more with a specialist school), and from arcane trickster 2+ the wizard entry has more even if they're a universalist. Losing less spellcasting is not really the reason to go with ES into arcane trickster.I've played this and a few points should be bourne in mind, using this approach your BAB is pretty crap, one less than a wizard of the same level. You essentially are a wizard/sorcerer/bard with a few tricks relating to scout functions and some sneak attack damage. But don't talk that down.
Snakebite striker brawler 1/wizard 4/arcane trickster gets the required Sneak Attack (with Accomplished Sneak Attacker) and keeps BAB about the same as a single classed wizard (BAB increases every odd level instead of even level). Also, the character should be a sylph with Cloud Gazer* specializing in the Evocation/Admixture school to switch elemental damage types on the fly or another race specializing in the Air/Smoke school*. Losing one level of wizard spell progression is worth it (IMO) for being able to make ranged touch attacks with acid splash or ray of frost to do 1d3+Sneak Attack damage pretty much every round in most fights; even without considering any other spells (like Intensified Reach shocking grasp for a 1d6/level ranged touch, 10d6 max., in a 3rd-level spell slot; plus possible extra damage from Sneak Attack) beyond a cantrip and a 1st-level spell (that you can create cheap scrolls of at 12.5 gp a pop for each expected fight).
*- to be able to cast obscuring mist (which the character can see out of while remaining hidden) for consistent round-by-round ranged Sneak Attacks before greater invisibility
Monstrous Physique + Deathsnatcher is probably the winning ticket if an Arcane Trickster accidentally finds itself involved in the melee. Otherwise, the good old Point Blank Shot + Acid Flask + Brimstone + Acid Splash = Sneak Attack... PBS also helps as you plink away with your Mage's Crossbow (that you mainly carry for its bonus to bypass SR).
But overall, I still believe that Arcane Trickster is just something fun to add to a spellcaster to spice things up a bit.
If you want to be a magical Rogue, then I believe Eldritch Scoundrel is what you are looking for. Eldritch Scoundrel's BAB can actually make use of Dimensional Savant, too. Which is always fun... and I always assume that pretty much everyone wants teleport pounce.
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Eldritch scoundrel, IMO, does better as a switch-hitter instead of a ranged touch blaster. A one level dip in a class (probably a full BAB one) that grants proficiency in light armor (or just spending a feat on Light Armor Proficiency) and picking up Arcane Armor Training at 3rd (assuming Magical Knack if using a dip) lets the character switch between flanker and spellcaster. You can always retrain Arcane Armor Training to Quicken Spell when you finally gain 5th-level spells.
One thematic and effective route for an eldritch scoundrel could be gloomblade fighter 1/eldritch scoundrel unchained rogue 7/arcane archer 2/arcane trickster 10. The character loses two levels of spell progression (keep caster level at HD with Magical Knack), but ends up with +13 BAB and +7d6 Sneak Attack. Also, they have the Imbue Arrow exploits (even combining Sneak Attack on arrow damage and Sneak Attack on Imbued spell damage at 20th character level, if the campaign goes that high). If you want to gain Surprise Spells earlier, then gloomblade fighter 1/eldritch scoundrel unchained rogue 4 (take Accomplished Sneak Attacker)/arcane trickster 4/arcane archer 2/arcane trickster +6 gets you there at 17th character level.
Alternately, you could focus more on melee with inspired blade swashbuckler 1/eldritch scoundrel unchained rogue 7/arcane trickster and VMC magus.