How do I make the physically strongest character possible?

[John and KARSG!!!]

I am looking into how someone might go about acquiring the highest possible strength ability score for a PC. All help is appreciated

[VoodistMonk]

Transmutation school power.

Abyssal Bloodline's Strength of the Abyss.

Orc Bloodline Strength of the Beast.

Dragon Disciple ability increases.

[Lelomenia]

Chained Summoner Synthesist gives you a good starting point. Do you count Magic Jar-type shennanigannery?

[DeathlessOne]

I once built a character modeled after Bruce Banner (The Hulk) and ended somewhere upwards of 78 Strength. I used Mythic to get 10 points of strength and a few of the Hulk's signature abilities.

[Firebug]

Amplified Rage and Extreme Mood Swings to increase morale bonuses to strength, and Mighty Strength gives a higher enhancement bonus than normal.
Grand Mutagen for +8 Alchemical bonus to Str. Otherwise, I think the best Alchemical bonus you can get is +2 (titan's tonic or icecap ale).
Largest Size bonus I am finding right now is one of the Form of the Dragons(normal, exotic, alien) for a +10 and Huge Size. UMD if its not on your list.
I remember a boon from PFS that granted a +2 Profane Bonus to an ability score for a (real life) year. Alternatively, Enemy's Heart also gives a +2 Profane bonus to strength.
Eaglesoul grants a +4 Sacred bonus to strength.

[yukongil]

do you want the highest strength score, or the bonuses of a high strength (ie carry capacity, strength checks, skill check, etc...)?

regardless, mythic is going to get it to the highest levels, netting up to +12 from mythic boosts and path abilities, then taking Mythic Elemental Body IV and transforming into a Huge Earth Elemental for another +12)

Then maybe Cleric with the Strength Domain (for either Strength Surge or Might of the Gods) and the Strength Variant Channeling for more bonuses to Str-related checks.

[SheepishEidolon]

I dived into this myself a while ago and looked for a strong class combination:

18 point buy
2 race
5 levels
5 manual
10 abyssal + draconic crossblooded bloodrager 16
2 dragon disciple 2
6 ragechemist 2
6 belt
6 greater mask of giants
==
60

[Sysryke]

DeathlessOne wrote:

I once built a character modeled after Bruce Banner (The Hulk) and ended somewhere upwards of 78 Strength. I used Mythic to get 10 points of strength and a few of the Hulk's signature abilities.

You've put up the biggest number so far, can you give a breakdown similar to SheepishEidolon's please?

[avr]

It depends on what level you aim to be most impressive at, and how temporary a strength bonus is acceptable. At 3rd level a bloodrager / alchemist / psychic could get +4 morale, +4 alchemical, +8 enhancement for 1 roll per 2 rounds but that might not be the best long term.

[Firebug]

Mythic's Enhance Ability isn't +12, its +2 to an ability score and you can take it multiple times... on a different ability score. No stacking.

My attempt with Alchemist 16/Bloodrager 1/Random Spontaneous Arcane 1/Dragon Disciple 2
18 point buy
2 race Half-Orc
5 levels
6 Inherent: (improved eldritch heritage: abyssal)
10 Morale: Bloodrager 1, Amplified Rage, Extreme Mood Swings(drunk)
2 Untyped: ID Rager(Anger)
10 Alchemical: Alchemist 16 with Grand Mutagen, Rage Chemist (though its terrible), Valet Tumor Familiar to share Amplified Rage
14 Size: Form of the Dragon 3 Mythic, Augmented, Scroll UMD
8 Enhancement: Mighty Strength, Scroll UMD
4 Sacred: Eaglesoul, Scroll UMD.
2 Untyped: Enhance Ability(Mythic)
2 Untyped: Dragon Disciple 2
4 Profane: Pact with Lilitu
=87 Strength

For 1 check, you can double your Morale bonus (+10 in this case) with Moment of Greatness.
A lot of this you can adapt to other builds.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Firebug wrote:

Mythic's Enhance Ability isn't +12, its +2 to an ability score and you can take it multiple times... on a different ability score. No stacking.

While you can only take the path ability enhance ability once on a single score, you also get 5 +2 ability score increases from gaining tiers. That works out to a +12.

Ability Score: Upon reaching the 2nd mythic tier, an ability score of your choice permanently increases by 2. At 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th tiers, another ability score of your choice permanently increases by 2; this can be an ability score you've already increased or a different ability score.

And the path ability
Enhanced Ability (Ex): You gain a permanent +2 bonus to one ability score of your choice. You can select this path ability up to six times. Each time you do, it must apply to a different ability score.

[Name Violation]

uh, whatever someone else said, but with trox as a race instead? +8 racial starting point

[Firebug]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

While you can only take the path ability enhance ability once on a single score, you also get 5 +2 ability score increases from gaining tiers. That works out to a +12.

Ok, that puts me at 97 then.

Name Violation wrote:

uh, whatever someone else said, but with trox as a race instead? +8 racial starting point

Half-Orc is giving me +6(with amplified rage and +2 racial), so that gets you less then you think.

I am showing Trox as +6 strength and already large... so I am pretty sure you have to adjust to medium or small before you do size bonuses with Polymorph... I think that actually puts you behind the half-orc in this case.

[VoodistMonk]

Ogrillon get a +8 Str, +4 Con, are Medium sized, and count as Orcs to enjoy Amplified Rage... might be the golden ticket...

[Firebug]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Ogrillon get a +8 Str, +4 Con, are Medium sized, and count as Orcs to enjoy Amplified Rage... might be the golden ticket...

I can find that on D20 but not Archives of Nethys. Showing a source of Tome of Horrors Complete... which looks to be an adaption of a 3.5 adventure. So... likely 3rd party there. Yep "Publisher : Frog God Games".

Regardless, if allowed it has 2 racial HD, so it loses out on Dragon Disciple from my build. So -2 from that, so only 'effectively' up 4.

[yukongil]

Firebug wrote:

Mythic's Enhance Ability isn't +12, its +2 to an ability score and you can take it multiple times... on a different ability score. No stacking.

My attempt with Alchemist 16/Bloodrager 1/Random Spontaneous Arcane 1/Dragon Disciple 2
18 point buy
2 race Half-Orc
5 levels
6 Inherent: (improved eldritch heritage: abyssal)
10 Morale: Bloodrager 1, Amplified Rage, Extreme Mood Swings(drunk)
2 Untyped: ID Rager(Anger)
10 Alchemical: Alchemist 16 with Grand Mutagen, Rage Chemist (though its terrible), Valet Tumor Familiar to share Amplified Rage
14 Size: Form of the Dragon 3 Mythic, Augmented, Scroll UMD
8 Enhancement: Mighty Strength, Scroll UMD
4 Sacred: Eaglesoul, Scroll UMD.
2 Untyped: Enhance Ability(Mythic)
2 Untyped: Dragon Disciple 2
4 Profane: Pact with Lilitu
=87 Strength

For 1 check, you can double your Morale bonus (+10 in this case) with Moment of Greatness.
A lot of this you can adapt to other builds.

you can't make a mythic scroll of anything, unless that scroll is somehow an artifact...

[DeathlessOne]

Sysryke wrote:

DeathlessOne wrote:

I once built a character modeled after Bruce Banner (The Hulk) and ended somewhere upwards of 78 Strength. I used Mythic to get 10 points of strength and a few of the Hulk's signature abilities.

You've put up the biggest number so far, can you give a breakdown similar to SheepishEidolon's please?

Sure. I'll tweak the bonuses to accommodate some of the other sources of boosts that I've seen in the thread, but I'll steer clear of any one-time or extremely brief boosts to strength.

Half-Orc: Bloodrager 16/Alchemist 2/Barbarian 2

Permanent Score:
18 (starting)
+2 (Half-Orc)
+5 (level ups)
+6 (enhancement belt)
+6 (Orc Bloodline: Strength of the Beast)
+5 (manual of strength)
+10 (Mythic Path)
+2 (Enhance Ability)
--------------------
54 Strength

Short term boosts (minimum 1/rd per level)
+6 (Power of Giants: Orc Bloodline, or Giant Form spell)
+16 (Raging*)
+6 (rage Mutagen)
---------------------
+28 Strength

---------------------
Strength: 82

Rage breakdown:

+6 Greater Bloodrage
+4 Abyssal Bloodrage
+4 Amplified Rage
+2 Extreme Mood Swings (drunk)

This is without really diving deep into what else is possible. Firebug gave a good list of extra stuff that can push you further. Here are some of their suggestions that I do not take advantage of:

+8 [net] (Form of the Dragon 3 Mythic, Augmented, Scroll UMD)
+2 [net[ (Mighty Strength, Scroll UMD)
+4 [net] (Pact with Lilitu)
+4 [net] (Eaglesoul, Scroll UMD) ***very temporary***
+16 [net] (moment of greatness) ***very temporary***
-----------------------
Strength: 96 +20 (116 for one roll)

I did not take advantage of these things because, while effective, buffing is not something that a character like this is really focused on and the time/patience to do these things is not in character for what I envision as a Rage monster. Also, mythic scrolls? Nah.

I think that about does it. Honestly, once you get above 50, it is really just overkill.

[Firebug]

yukongil wrote:

you can't make a mythic scroll of anything, unless that scroll is somehow an artifact...

Sure, I haven't played or really looked into Mythic much outside of that one PFS 3 part adventure where they introduced it.

Dropping the Mythic part of Form of the Dragon 3 loses 4 strength, so I'd be at 93 with only 1 round/level effect(Eaglesoul, though you can precast hour/level earlier) active and 2 minute/level(mighty strength and form of the dragon). And of course rage is usually measure in rounds as opposed to minutes or hours.

Looks like Rightous Medal of Valor is a swift to activate and provides a +2 sacred bonus to strength for 1 minute, but doesn't seem to be limited per day. So 'permanent' +2 sacred vs Eaglesoul's +4 for rounds.

Other threads are saying +6 profane from Nocticula over the +4 profane from the Lilitu or +2 profane from a Succubus. But you know, demon lord CR 30 vs demon CR 17(or 7).

They also talk about Ceremony giving a +2 sacred bonus to strength, presumably from the strength domain ritual. It doesn't. It gives a bonus to strength checks and skill checks, but not strength directly. Also, some about Divine Vessel giving an untyped bonus. I read it as Axiomatic/Fiendish increasing the Size bonus it grants by +2, not a separate bonus. And since we already have an affect increasing out size, it does nothing.

A good suggestion though, was to switch to actual Orc, not Half-orc for a net +2, or 95.

[Belafon]

I decided to set some guidelines for myself when I was trying to come up with the highest strength score. So I came up with a list of rules with the goal of a character whose max strength wasn't based on a whole bunch of consumables or situations that may or may not occur. Just "this is how strong I always am."

1. Level 20.
2. Paizo-only material.
3. All bonuses must be something you have "on demand" instead of spending rounds of actions before you get to that strength. Any buffs must be 10min/level or greater or a free action to activate. Up to one swift action allowed.
4. Must be solely based on your own class features. No "a friendly wizard casts X on me" or "I UMD a scroll of Y." Teamwork feats only count if you have a familiar/companion that you can use to activate them.
5. Only material that anyone could plan on and doesn't rely on particulars of a campaign. So no custom magic items or magic items you only get because you are the heroes of an Adventure Path. Nothing that relies on meeting a particular creature (such as a succubus's profane gift).
6. Two categories: mythic and non-mythic.

[Belafon]

Using my guidelines, here's a non-mythic strength of 65.

Orc Bloodrager (crossblooded: abyssal/draconic) 20
18 [untyped] (starting score)
+4 [untyped] (starting racial)
+5 [untyped] (level up)
+8 [untyped] (alternate capstone Perfect Body, Flawless Mind - Replaces Mighty Bloodrage)
+6 [enhancement] (belt of giant strength)
+6 [inherent] (Improved Eldritch Heritage: Abyssal - Strength of the Abyss)
+12 [morale] (Raging - Greater Bloodrage and Abyssal Bloodrage)
+6 [size] (Raging - Form of the Dragon II)

[Artofregicide]

Mythic tis a silly place. Let's not go there.

[Firebug]

Belafon wrote:

+6 [inherent] (Improved Eldritch Heritage: Abyssal - Strength of the Abyss)

Eldritch Heritage can't be a bloodline you already have. That is easily fixed by swapping Eldritch Heritage Abyssal for Orc though. So your numbers stay the same. You could probably add another 6 points by trading out your 1st bloodline power for a Bloodline Familiar, making it a Valet and Amplified Rage/Extreme Mood Swings.

The buff restrictions seem geared toward making Rage good (though Rage is typically less than 3 minutes per day at 20) and eliminating Polymorph effects and other size changing spells(enlarge person, etc) since they are almost all 1 min/level. I'm going to go around that restriction by using Metamorph (instead of Ragechemist) which has a more wildshape version of Giant Shape 2 in that it lasts hour/level.

I just create my own Lilitu using Greater Alchemical Simulacrum? It doesn't need a piece of the creature unlike the 3.5 version of the spell and is entirely under my control. Sure, I'll need to actually sculpt it from ice... but that's what skill points are for.

That said, adjusting my previous entry:

Numbers:

Alchemist 16/Bloodrager 1/Random Spontaneous Arcane 1/Dragon Disciple 2
18 [starting] point buy
4 [race] Orc
5 [untyped] levels
6 [Inherent] Improved Eldritch Heritage: Abyssal
10 [Morale] Bloodrager 1, Amplified Rage, Extreme Mood Swings(drunk), Free Action Rage
2 [Untyped] ID Rager(Anger)
8 [Alchemical] Metamorph Alchemist 16 with Grand Mutagen, Valet Tumor Familiar to share Amplified Rage
8 [Size] Metamorph Alchemist's Giant Form 2
6 [Enhancement] Belt of Strength +6
2 [Untyped] Dragon Disciple 2
4 [Profane] Pact with Lilitu (via Greater Alchemical Simulacrum)
2 [Sacred] Righteous Medal of Valor, swift action activate.
=75 Strength

75 Strength as Alchemist primarily. No buff rounds. The Swift action is a magical item, free action is Rage, and a day spent making a sculpture.

Slightly Cheesy:

I could probably do something with Fiendish Obedience to Dagon and the Damned Soldier feat get the Mutagenic Strike ability and hit myself until I gain the Mutant Template. Which is +4 to 2 ability scores and can gives me rage if I take an additional deformity. Then dropping bloodrager (but keeping amplified rage/moon swings) and the other 3 levels out to dragon disciple, I would lose rage and 4 strength, which I gain back from the template. Plus I would get capstone Alchemist. Which is another +8 from Perfect Body Flawless Mind.

83 Strength.

I might be able to do something with Eternal Potion(maybe an Amplfied Elixir (ie, Empowered) Siphon Might, but that gets weird for a number of reasons), but that runs afoul of your buff restrictions and Metamorph trades away Extracts. It would have to be back to Ragechemist, and take Spell Knowledge discovery to get it on the Alchemist List. Spell Knowledge allows you to prepare and cast that spell using an extract slot 1 higher, but doesn't actually say it increases the spell level for DCs/etc. So it is potion-able. Brew multiple 'Empowered' Siphon Might's until you get a max roll(16 enhancement bonus to strength) and Eternal Potion it(technically you Eternal Potion off of them, just replacing until you get a max roll). Potions are weird in that you are also the target, so you would also take a -16 penalty to strength at the same time. So I would have to find a way to ignore penalties without removing them, I think.

81 Strength with a side of cheese.

[Belafon]

I didn’t intend to favor rage in particular - my intention was to have a character who could say “oh my gosh, combat broke out, what’s my first-round strength?” rather than “If combat breaks out in the next six minutes I will be an absolute beast!” I’m playing with an arcanist (brown-fur transmuter) who I think is going to end up with a higher strength.

I don’t doubt you on the bloodline thing, and orc bloodline fixes it fine, but do you have a reference I can use in the future? Couldn’t find it in the ACG FAQ.

[Firebug]

It's in the plain text of the feat. Bolded for Emphasis.

Eldritch Heritage wrote:

Eldritch HeritageYou are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins.

Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.

Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Not sure of the changelog though. If it was always that way or if it was errataed at some point. My physical copy is a second printing and it has the same language.

[ErichAD]

A brownfur using the bloodrage spell to replace barbarian rage in these builds does pretty well. Pop into Pathfinder savant for a few levels to get Mighty Strength and Eagle Soul on your spell list, worship Haagenti for level-4 mutagens and call it good.

[Dragonchess Player]

DeathlessOne wrote:

+6 (Orc Bloodline: Strength of the Beast)

+5 (manual of strength)

These are both inherent bonuses and don't stack.

Although, if you are using mythic, bracers of might can provide a +4 sacred bonus to Str for one round 3/day.

[Belafon]

I’m trying to figure out how a valet tumor familiar can activate amplified rage. It gets the teamwork feat, but how does it rage?

[avr]

Belafon wrote:

I’m trying to figure out how a valet tumor familiar can activate amplified rage. It gets the teamwork feat, but how does it rage?

Get the infusion discovery so you can hand it an extract of rage I guess.

[Firebug]

Right, good catch. Used to do that with a Skald(who had a bloodrager dip with a valet familiar) and crossed my classes a bit.

So, 2 level dip into Eldritch Guardian Fighter and Sympathetic Rage would work. I thought there was an easier way, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

My Alchemist build will need to drop the Dragon Disciple levels for the above levels of Fighter to get Amplified Rage working.

[Belafon]

avr wrote:

Belafon wrote:

I’m trying to figure out how a valet tumor familiar can activate amplified rage. It gets the teamwork feat, but how does it rage?

Get the infusion discovery so you can hand it an extract of rage I guess.

That works. You can put the extract of rage into a delayed consumption so the valet can trigger it as an immediate action when you start raging.

[Belafon]

Firebug wrote:

I just create my own Lilitu using Greater Alchemical Simulacrum? It doesn't need a piece of the creature unlike the 3.5 version of the spell and is entirely under my control. Sure, I'll need to actually sculpt it from ice... but that's what skill points are for.

This might work but it's kinda dependent on your GM. Simulacrums only get half of the real creature's HD and "appropriate special abilities for a creature of that level of HD." Deciding what is "appropriate" when it comes to a monster (rather than a simulacrum of a PC race with class levels) is really up to the GM. So I am going to leave it out of my calculations.

As for the righteous medal I can't decide if it meets my guidleines or not. The medals are from the Wrath of the Righteous AP and are awarded for achieving certain goals in relation to the crusade in the worldwound. But it does have a listed price, so maybe a disaffected crusader (or a battlefield looter) might sell one. I'll leave it out of my builds.

[Belafon]

Using my guidelines again, here's a non-mythic strength of 72.

Orc bloodrager (crossblooded: abyssal/draconic) 16/alchemist (ragechemist) 2/dragon disciple 2
18 [untyped] (starting score)
+4 [untyped] (starting racial)
+5 [untyped] (level up)
+2 [untyped] (dragon disciple)
+6 [enhancement] (belt of giant strength)
+6 [inherent] (Improved Eldritch Heritage: Orc - Strength of the Beast)
+10 [alchemical] (mutagen)
+11 [morale] (Raging - Greater Bloodrage, Abyssal Bloodrage, and Extreme Mood Swings)
+10 [size] (shapechange into Form of the Dragon III - Sentinel Boon)

Feats and explanations:

Extreme Mood Swings: Increases morale bonus by +1 (+2 if drunk)

Skill Focus: Survival, Eldritch Heritage (orc), Improved Eldritch Heritage (orc) - For Strength of the Beast

Fiendish Obedience (Haagenti), Damned Disciple, Damned Soldier - Necessary for the second evangelist boon and third sentinel boons of Haagenti

Alchemical bonus explanation: +4 (mutagen) +2 (ragechemist) +2 (Haagenti's second evangelist boon) +2 (prepare alchemist extracts from Journal of the Beast Within, changes base mutagen bonus to +6 instead of +4)

Size bonus explanation: Haagenti's third sentinel boon lets you use shapechange once per day for 10 min/HD.

[Belafon]

By the way, I really enjoy these threads where we keep building off each other's ideas. I know I probably don't have the maximum build yet, but maybe someone can take my ideas and tweak a couple of things.

(For example, in that last build I could drop 5 bloodrager levels and only lose 2 strength. I could replace two of them with dragon disciple and be back to 72. I just don't have an idea right now on where to spend the other three levels to get more bonuses.)